Almost 12 year old girl pooping pants

[Runner820]

We have had problems in the past with this but I thought by now it would have stopped. She wears pull ups to bed because she pees every night. Now the past two nights she is pooping her pull up. Her mother isn't in the picture really at all. She has been diagnosed with ADHD and mood disorder which this past month we took her off her stimulants and started a vitamin regiment and trying to control her ADHD with diet. I am not sure what is going on her because she doesn't even care she does it. Same with other things too like hair brushing or oral hygiene, appearance in general. She is negative all the time about herself. It's a very frustrating situation. I am the step mom and pretty much take care of her except on the weekends she goes to her grandparents because they helped raise her up to age 4 so they feel that she is "theirs" almost in a sense. Opinions would be great.

[Zdog409]

Don't know enough about ADHD except that once it's been labeled everyone seems to have it. I congratulate you on making the effort to treat it without meds. My grade school days were in the 60's and we had a few kids that "had ants in their pants" and couldn't sit still or maintain focus but we also had a very physical recess in the morning, noon and afternoon which left the majority of us exhausted. Of course you can't play many of the games we played anymore because they aren't PC, but I still believe that physically exhausting these children a couple of times a day would help. My wife and I only raised two who compared to many I see today were little angels!

[Sandman2]

Hi, this is a really old post, but thank you for commenting.  There have been lots of studies that show that physical exercise really does help some one with adhd gain more control of their lives.  Just ask Michael Phelps, the great swimmer.

[Runner820]

Yeah we are doing what he said to do. Something weird on this last week is she had two dry pull ups. I have no idea. So strange. That's why I think it's emotional. Like something she has underlying in her mind when she is here. Her dad and I got together when she was 4 but she still has this connection at her grandparents like her own room and specifically her own things. We have 5 kids and she has special things there and no one else does because no one else stays there. If she doesn't go every weekend it's a fight between everyone. We actually had them come to therapy with us before because we all needed to get on the same page. They would let her drink pop on a regular basis and we do not. The only drinks here are water and milk and rarely juice. We are pretty strict on food intake and they are starting to be more but were pretty lacked (sp) on it prior to us taking her off her medicine. But even before we took her off she had pooping accidents before so I don't feel it's the medicine part. There was a time she was about 7 she did it while we were at a park. Well she had to sit in it the whole way home because she did it (bathrooms were locked) but she didn't tell us she had to go and just went in her pants. I am hoping things get better so as she goes through puberty it's not a horrible experience. Thank you for your comments!

[Sandman2]

    As you said, she can hold it.  Its the releasing that is the problem.  Kids with ADHD can hyper focus and tune out body signals (especially when off meds).  All of a sudden their body lets them know that they have ignored it too long and wham!
   Why at your house and not the grandparents?  Maybe at your place she is not as bored (finds things that interest her) and ignores her body signals.  Perhaps there is a different intake of fluids or foods.  Or it could be that just the routine is different.  It certainly would be worth finding out what the difference is.  
   But whatever it it, I am glad that you do not punish her for it.   Remember I said that kids with ADHD do have a much higher percent of accidents.  So in a sense, she may not have control - but that would be a bit unusual at her age.  It probably wouldn't hurt to do a simple check for an infection of the bladder.
  By the way, the book I recommend the most over on the ADHD site is,  "The ADD/ ADHD Answer book," by Susan Ashley.  Its only about 10 bucks on Amazon.  I think that you will find it very helpful.
   And, to be on the safe side I would really listen to your doctor about slowly going off the Abilify.  The side effects I listed above are not pleasant.  And I doubt that going to 5mgs (or whatever the doc recommends) for another week or so would disrupt things too much.
   Hope this helps!

[Runner820]

She was on a stimulant (adderall) for years and abilify was added about 3 years ago with the stimulant to try to control her mood and excessive crying. I think to a point it did help but I don't think it helped to the point of her needing to take it - I feel it may have lost its effectiveness maybe. And she is on a 10mg. Started at a 2 then went to a 5 then a 10 he actually had her on a 15 now back down to a 10 and then she will be off after this week. He isn't gradually taking her off of it we are just stopping it but I think he wanted to make sure we were gonna stick with keeping her off the stimulant since the abilify takes longer to get back in the system after its out of it. Also I did talk to the grandparents about the pooping thing and they told me that she doesn't even wet the be over there since being off her meds. Well she does it here daily and the pooping happened twice in that one day and in previous years it has happened before every once in a while. Her therapist is aware (she just had an appt yesterday). He is gonna talk to me more about it next visit.
So I know for sure she can hold it. I know that she is aware of her body enough to not do it at her grandparents. So I guess I am just puzzled about how she can do it at home and not there. And I don't clean the mess up, she does. I don't give her attention about it either. Negative or positive,  we talk about it that day and that's pretty much it.
Hoping that someday something clicks in her brain. She has a lot of traits from her mom like sitting there with her mouth open and her tongue slightly sticking out just staring.

[Sandman2]

   Is Abilify the med she was on for ADHD?  Because it is not a stimulant medication.   And, your doc is right, it needs to be slowly withdrawan -"Aripiprazole should be discontinued gradually, with careful consideration from the prescribing doctor, to avoid withdrawal symptoms or relapse.
The British National Formulary recommends a gradual withdrawal when discontinuing anti-psychotic treatment to avoid acute withdrawal syndrome or rapid relapse.[20] Due to compensatory changes at dopamine, serotonin, adrenergic and histamine receptor sites in the central nervous system, withdrawal symptoms can occur during abrupt or over-rapid reduction in dosage. Withdrawal symptoms reported to occur after discontinuation of antipsychotics include nausea, emesis, lightheadedness, diaphoresis, dyskinesia, orthostatic hypotension, tachycardia, nervousness, dizziness, headache, excessive non-stop crying, and anxiety.[21][22] Some have argued that additional somatic and psychiatric symptoms associated with dopaminergic super-sensitivity, including dyskinesia and acute psychosis, are common features of withdrawal in individuals treated with neuroleptics.[23][24][25][26] This has led some to suggest that the withdrawal process might itself be schizo-mimetic, producing schizophrenia-like symptoms even in previously healthy patients, indicating a possible pharmacological origin of mental illness in a yet unknown percentage of patients currently and previously treated with antipsychotics. This question is unresolved, and remains a highly controversial issue among professionals in the medical and mental health communities, as well the public.[27] Complicated and long-lasting rebound insomnia symptoms can also occur after withdrawing from antipsychotics."  

[Runner820]

Also she doesn't pee her pants while sleeping at we grandparents on the weekend or having any poopig problems. I really feel its emotional :/

[Runner820]

Also I wanted to mention I have a medical background and also plan on being a personal trainer an want to continue school with nutrition and exercise to help children with some issues like depression and ADHD.

[Runner820]

I have read into different books and articles about certain things that can help her. I am reading The Ultramind Solution and it talks about how different difficencies in vitamins and minerals are the real cause of ADHD or being overloaded with toxins. Her dr is all on board with this. And she has pooped her pants before , this isn't the first time. Since she is almost 12 I thought this would be done by now. She claims her body doesn't give her any signal at all if she needs to pee or poop. We have been doing meds since she was 6 and all the therapies possible. It's time or something different because things were getting worse. Actually with her off her stimulant I feel that she is a little more complient with things. Before she was always angry at everything and cried 20-30 times a day. Definitely not exaggerating with this. Now we don't have as many outbreaks as we did before or as many back talks. She is almost off her abilify (he wanted her to stay on it for 30 more days). We are doing a magnesium/ b6 and other vitamins too. I want her to sit on the toilet certain times of day to get a routine but she doesn't want to. I am hoping she will listen to me on it though because I think it will help. Thanks so much for your opinion and information.

[Sandman2]

     It is possible that you may have overloaded her on vitamins and she is reacting to the change in diet.  These type of thing usually needs to be slowly introduced.
   Also kids with ADHD have a much higher percent of "accidents".  And that percentage goes way up when off meds.  Usually sticking to a very strict schedule is a way to help (this also helps with all phases of ADHD).
   I should also add that in the years I have been the CL on the ADHD forum I have not found any info on adding a particular food to helping with ADHD.  Though, I have seen some small results with Omega -3's.  However, there is a lot to be said for eliminating certain foods from your diet.  This can make a big difference.  Check out this links for simple solutions.

     http://www.medhelp.org/add-adhd/slideshows/9-Worst-Foods-for-ADD---Plus-1-That-Can-Help/20
    http://www.medhelp.org/add-adhd/slideshows/8-ADHD-Culprits-Lurking-in-Your-Home/21
   Finally, if you really want to try and use diet as the only way to deal with ADHD (not recommended by any professional material I have ever seen).  Then what you want to try is an elimination diet.  This kind of a diet will point out if food could be the cause.  It is a difficult diet to administer, but this link will at least give you more  information on it.
     http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/736871

   And, of course if diet is not the cause, then please post over on the ADHD forum and I have lots of other resources that can help.   And, by the way, her other symptoms are pretty normal for a child with ADHD - so you might want to look into what ADHD is and how it effects kids and how you can help them.  Best wishes!