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Bad Behavior or Something Else?
Just over a year ago I took on the role of "mommy" to my husband's son who is now 4 1/2. My husband is a police officer and his mother had been helping him to raise his son. The boys mother had left when the boy was two and has never been seen again.
For background on her which may be helpful... she was a compulsive liar, she exhibited very odd behavior and was not a good mother to her children. People have told me that even when her son was an infant, she would pick him up by his clothing rather than "holding him". She would tie a pacifier into his mouth to avoid having to "deal" with him. She also had another child (that was 6) from a previous relationship whom she gave away to a member of her family when she moved away.
At the time that I came into this child's life, his father had not even begun potty training him. His son was having severe issues with bowel movements. I convinced him to take him to the doctor and he was diagnosed with encopresis. He has since potty trained and is doing very well other than night-time accidents which is really not a problem at all with us. We are excited about the steps that have been made so far.
My concern now is about other issues we deal with on a daily basis. His grandmother had been raising him and has created some issues that have been very difficult to deal with... but we are making it past them. She would allow him to sit in front of the t.v. for the entire day if that is what made him happy. He was not fed well rounded meals, but rather given anything he wanted to eat. i.e.: His sandwich would go untouched in favor of half a dozen of her homemade cookies. She would jump to attention every time he whimpered, whined or looked the least bit distressed. If he wanted her to stop the car so that he could watch bulldozers working for 2 hours... she would do that. There was very little expected of him and he was spoiled beyond belief. Anything that made him unhappy would result in an all out tantrum. She helped to create a very needy little boy who did not know any boundaries. He also was a hitter... If you said something or did something he did not like, he would strike you. Often repeatedly. He even took a light saber toy to his very frail great grandmother (unprovoked) when he was 4.
This behavior was not acceptable to me. If he wants something, he is expected to ask for it politely and to say "Thank You" after receiving it. There is no "I want a sandwich." Instead he has learned to say "Mom, may I please have a sandwich?" (he began calling me mom on his own which makes me very happy... he was not prompted to do so or asked to do so.) If people are talking he is expected to wait patiently and is no longer allowed to just have a fit to get our attention. Hitting has subsided except with other children. He does still strike other children when he is frustrated.
Okay... so that is how far we have come in the past year which feels like an enormous feat. Now... we are expecting a third child to our family. He has told me that he does not want grandma or dad to hold the new baby. he has started lying about things that are very obvious... and the topper is that he has begun to poop and pee in his pants when he is angry with me. When asked about "Why did you poop in your pants?" He will respond with "Because I was mad at you." Other times he has said "I don't know." but it will be right after he has gotten into trouble for something.
I am truly at a loss for what to do at this point. I don't know how to deal with him defecating in his pants out of anger. Is this just bad behavior? Could there be something else going on with him? Am I being paranoid thinking that I will need to really watch him around the baby when it comes? (I am afraid that he will hurt the baby at this point.)
He also shows aggression (unprovoked) around animals. We had a labrador puppy who he hits if he thinks no one is looking. He has been caught throwing rocks at her and just general teasing. My parents have chihuahuas... not everyones favorite little dog I know... but he has been caught mistreating them when he thinks no one is looking.
For background on her which may be helpful... she was a compulsive liar, she exhibited very odd behavior and was not a good mother to her children. People have told me that even when her son was an infant, she would pick him up by his clothing rather than "holding him". She would tie a pacifier into his mouth to avoid having to "deal" with him. She also had another child (that was 6) from a previous relationship whom she gave away to a member of her family when she moved away.
At the time that I came into this child's life, his father had not even begun potty training him. His son was having severe issues with bowel movements. I convinced him to take him to the doctor and he was diagnosed with encopresis. He has since potty trained and is doing very well other than night-time accidents which is really not a problem at all with us. We are excited about the steps that have been made so far.
My concern now is about other issues we deal with on a daily basis. His grandmother had been raising him and has created some issues that have been very difficult to deal with... but we are making it past them. She would allow him to sit in front of the t.v. for the entire day if that is what made him happy. He was not fed well rounded meals, but rather given anything he wanted to eat. i.e.: His sandwich would go untouched in favor of half a dozen of her homemade cookies. She would jump to attention every time he whimpered, whined or looked the least bit distressed. If he wanted her to stop the car so that he could watch bulldozers working for 2 hours... she would do that. There was very little expected of him and he was spoiled beyond belief. Anything that made him unhappy would result in an all out tantrum. She helped to create a very needy little boy who did not know any boundaries. He also was a hitter... If you said something or did something he did not like, he would strike you. Often repeatedly. He even took a light saber toy to his very frail great grandmother (unprovoked) when he was 4.
This behavior was not acceptable to me. If he wants something, he is expected to ask for it politely and to say "Thank You" after receiving it. There is no "I want a sandwich." Instead he has learned to say "Mom, may I please have a sandwich?" (he began calling me mom on his own which makes me very happy... he was not prompted to do so or asked to do so.) If people are talking he is expected to wait patiently and is no longer allowed to just have a fit to get our attention. Hitting has subsided except with other children. He does still strike other children when he is frustrated.
Okay... so that is how far we have come in the past year which feels like an enormous feat. Now... we are expecting a third child to our family. He has told me that he does not want grandma or dad to hold the new baby. he has started lying about things that are very obvious... and the topper is that he has begun to poop and pee in his pants when he is angry with me. When asked about "Why did you poop in your pants?" He will respond with "Because I was mad at you." Other times he has said "I don't know." but it will be right after he has gotten into trouble for something.
I am truly at a loss for what to do at this point. I don't know how to deal with him defecating in his pants out of anger. Is this just bad behavior? Could there be something else going on with him? Am I being paranoid thinking that I will need to really watch him around the baby when it comes? (I am afraid that he will hurt the baby at this point.)
He also shows aggression (unprovoked) around animals. We had a labrador puppy who he hits if he thinks no one is looking. He has been caught throwing rocks at her and just general teasing. My parents have chihuahuas... not everyones favorite little dog I know... but he has been caught mistreating them when he thinks no one is looking.
My heart goes out to you.
I hope you post to ask a specialist about the problem on the doctor side.
My statement was meant that a child needs to learn his boundaries, and common courtesy of others. Which to me also includes what is not theirs personally should be asked for, not snuck.
If other families feel they need to hide or lock up things to take away the temptation, how will that child act at other peoples homes, school, or anywhere else if not closely watched?
If you cannot trust your child in your own home to not take anything not locked away, how can you possibly trust him out of your sight?
Every child should learn basic common courtesy, and respect at home, or they will have none anywhere else.
Personal preference, I chose to teach my children manners, courtesy and respect at home, not hide or lock up everything.
I hope you post to ask a specialist about the problem on the doctor side.
My statement was meant that a child needs to learn his boundaries, and common courtesy of others. Which to me also includes what is not theirs personally should be asked for, not snuck.
If other families feel they need to hide or lock up things to take away the temptation, how will that child act at other peoples homes, school, or anywhere else if not closely watched?
If you cannot trust your child in your own home to not take anything not locked away, how can you possibly trust him out of your sight?
Every child should learn basic common courtesy, and respect at home, or they will have none anywhere else.
Personal preference, I chose to teach my children manners, courtesy and respect at home, not hide or lock up everything.
Thank you everyone... But really, I see it all linked together as the same problem. He is having a hard time accepting that there are boundaries, limitations and expectations. That I expect him to ask for treats is no different than expecting him to defecate in an appropriate area. They are normal, appropriate behaviors for a 4 1/2 year old to follow.
He does not seem to think that boundaries apply to him. He seems to feel that he can have a fit, throw a tantrum, hit family members... and still get whatever it is that he wants... because he feels entitled. He feels that if there is a treat within arm reach... he is entitled... Whether or not he has been told no. No does not seem to apply to him.
I wish that he were the child who could have treats sitting in front of him and would still eat healthy foods. He is not. He had been allowed to leave his meals sitting in order to eat grandmas cookies (which she baked fresh for him a couple of times each week). Before I began staying home with him I would stop to pick him up and hear that he hadn't eaten breakfast... had eaten only a few bites of his sandwich at lunch time... but had managed to eat more than a half dozen cookies that day. "Oh-ho-ho... he loves my cookies!"
Just a couple of weeks ago he and my daughter were left with grandma while I was taken to the hospital. After we picked up the children my daughter told me that grandma had taken them to the store (at almost 10 p.m.) to get ice-cream because he wanted some. He was allowed to pick out TWO tubs of Ben and Jerry's ice cream (and not the tiny ones... the pint size ones.) He ate about half of each. Then when they returned to grandma's house she pulled 4 cookies out and put them on a plate. My daughter took one... he took the other three and when my daughter wasn't looking... took hers as well.
My husband and I are really trying to figure out what to do... and so far my husband's suggestion of limiting time with grandma has helped to some degree.
I realize that this is a very egocentric age for children. They see themselves as the center of the universe... I do not believe him to be hyperactive. I do not believe him to have ADHD, ADD, or any of the other "labels" that we like to stick on children before we pump them full of medications to sedate them. I think RockRose is right with him having trouble with impulse control.
I will not however remove treats from the home because he is having trouble with impulse control. He needs to learn it... I do feel that his impulse control with stealing the treats and lying about it falls directly in line with him intentionally wetting himself and lying about it. He is in control of those actions... he needs to learn that there are consequences for them.
What I truly do not understand is that he defecates in anger... to somehow punish us when we have upset him. Has anyone else run into this... and what do you do about it? Oh... also, if you upset him he will go in and urinate all over the floor, wall, toilet seat... wherever he can make it reach.
I am trying having him wash out his own underwear... he deplores the idea of touching them. I am having him clean up his own urine. (Both of these things under supervision and with proper hand washing afterwards.) His dad and I have both tried talking to him, reasoning with him, setting up rewards, removing privileges, spanking, asking him what we should do... Nothing seems to work. And... the new baby is only weeks away. I was hoping to have this under control before then because I am already expecting that there will be some reverting with the arrival of his sibling. Especially because he has already expressed that he does not want this baby "on his turf" so to speak.
If anyone has any ideas, suggestions... please! :) We need them desperately at this point.
He does not seem to think that boundaries apply to him. He seems to feel that he can have a fit, throw a tantrum, hit family members... and still get whatever it is that he wants... because he feels entitled. He feels that if there is a treat within arm reach... he is entitled... Whether or not he has been told no. No does not seem to apply to him.
I wish that he were the child who could have treats sitting in front of him and would still eat healthy foods. He is not. He had been allowed to leave his meals sitting in order to eat grandmas cookies (which she baked fresh for him a couple of times each week). Before I began staying home with him I would stop to pick him up and hear that he hadn't eaten breakfast... had eaten only a few bites of his sandwich at lunch time... but had managed to eat more than a half dozen cookies that day. "Oh-ho-ho... he loves my cookies!"
Just a couple of weeks ago he and my daughter were left with grandma while I was taken to the hospital. After we picked up the children my daughter told me that grandma had taken them to the store (at almost 10 p.m.) to get ice-cream because he wanted some. He was allowed to pick out TWO tubs of Ben and Jerry's ice cream (and not the tiny ones... the pint size ones.) He ate about half of each. Then when they returned to grandma's house she pulled 4 cookies out and put them on a plate. My daughter took one... he took the other three and when my daughter wasn't looking... took hers as well.
My husband and I are really trying to figure out what to do... and so far my husband's suggestion of limiting time with grandma has helped to some degree.
I realize that this is a very egocentric age for children. They see themselves as the center of the universe... I do not believe him to be hyperactive. I do not believe him to have ADHD, ADD, or any of the other "labels" that we like to stick on children before we pump them full of medications to sedate them. I think RockRose is right with him having trouble with impulse control.
I will not however remove treats from the home because he is having trouble with impulse control. He needs to learn it... I do feel that his impulse control with stealing the treats and lying about it falls directly in line with him intentionally wetting himself and lying about it. He is in control of those actions... he needs to learn that there are consequences for them.
What I truly do not understand is that he defecates in anger... to somehow punish us when we have upset him. Has anyone else run into this... and what do you do about it? Oh... also, if you upset him he will go in and urinate all over the floor, wall, toilet seat... wherever he can make it reach.
I am trying having him wash out his own underwear... he deplores the idea of touching them. I am having him clean up his own urine. (Both of these things under supervision and with proper hand washing afterwards.) His dad and I have both tried talking to him, reasoning with him, setting up rewards, removing privileges, spanking, asking him what we should do... Nothing seems to work. And... the new baby is only weeks away. I was hoping to have this under control before then because I am already expecting that there will be some reverting with the arrival of his sibling. Especially because he has already expressed that he does not want this baby "on his turf" so to speak.
If anyone has any ideas, suggestions... please! :) We need them desperately at this point.
Well I was going to write something but after reading Rock RosesPosts, I have nothing to say , she hit the Nail on the Proverbial head, and trust me I am not usually stuck for words. good, helpful stuff to read and learn.
Grandma, I never had any children who came from such a horrible beginning, and who struggled so much as this child is struggling.
When there is a child with extremes of behavior, who is really struggling with just basic behavioral skills, other measures are called for. Simply removing the temptation of very minor infractions - like eating sweets when not allowed - allows for the child and family to work on the more important things this child needs right now. Right now, sneaking sweets is getting WAY in the way of the bigger lessons and skills he needs to have his attention on.
I have three teenage boys and I've never ever limited their food. All three are slim and have a healthy diet, and they can anything in the house at any moment and in any amount they want. In my experience (or just maybe dumb luck) if you give children unlimited access to healthy and unhealthy foods, they go for the healthy usually with treats sprinkled in. My kids will voluntarily wait an hour for dinner to be ready while a package of oreos sits right there on the counter - and they may have one just to stave off the hungries.
When you have a child so lost as this one, where punishment and spankings don't even keep him from "stealing" muffins, it's time to regather and revisit what is going on here. And during that time, make it impossible for him to steal.
That's what I think. I didn't give her the advice that worked for my well adjusted kids - which is let him eat whatever he wants anytime he wants. That's inappropriate. I also feel like the advice you gave for your well adjusted kids - which is insist on rules being followed is also inappropriate in this situation at this time.
My opinion only.
When there is a child with extremes of behavior, who is really struggling with just basic behavioral skills, other measures are called for. Simply removing the temptation of very minor infractions - like eating sweets when not allowed - allows for the child and family to work on the more important things this child needs right now. Right now, sneaking sweets is getting WAY in the way of the bigger lessons and skills he needs to have his attention on.
I have three teenage boys and I've never ever limited their food. All three are slim and have a healthy diet, and they can anything in the house at any moment and in any amount they want. In my experience (or just maybe dumb luck) if you give children unlimited access to healthy and unhealthy foods, they go for the healthy usually with treats sprinkled in. My kids will voluntarily wait an hour for dinner to be ready while a package of oreos sits right there on the counter - and they may have one just to stave off the hungries.
When you have a child so lost as this one, where punishment and spankings don't even keep him from "stealing" muffins, it's time to regather and revisit what is going on here. And during that time, make it impossible for him to steal.
That's what I think. I didn't give her the advice that worked for my well adjusted kids - which is let him eat whatever he wants anytime he wants. That's inappropriate. I also feel like the advice you gave for your well adjusted kids - which is insist on rules being followed is also inappropriate in this situation at this time.
My opinion only.
Why would you 'punish' any other children or the rest of the family by not having sweets, or have to lock up sweets in your own home?
Children need to learn respect, that just because its there, does not make it okay to take it. That it is there for the family, and is a treat for after a meal.
Or, to reward a child misbehaving by taking what he shouldn't so allow him to 'have one'??
I have seen other parents lock up items rather than discipline their children for stealing it. (yes, that is stealing).
I raised 3 children to adulthood and never locked up sweets, nor quit buying them in moderation. My children were taught that if they wanted a candy, muffin, cookie etc. They were expected to have the courtesy to ask. And if told no, then they left it alone.
Nor did I remove everything in my house and put it away. They were taught if it was not theirs, or if they were told to leave it alone, that's just what I meant.
I tried to raise honest kids. They were rewarded when a reward was called for. And they were put in time out or spanked for wrong doing.
They called me 'mean' as kids, now they call me 'fair' in discipline and are raising their own children with respect for things such as stealing sweets, misbehaving, and other things kids go through.
Children need to learn respect, that just because its there, does not make it okay to take it. That it is there for the family, and is a treat for after a meal.
Or, to reward a child misbehaving by taking what he shouldn't so allow him to 'have one'??
I have seen other parents lock up items rather than discipline their children for stealing it. (yes, that is stealing).
I raised 3 children to adulthood and never locked up sweets, nor quit buying them in moderation. My children were taught that if they wanted a candy, muffin, cookie etc. They were expected to have the courtesy to ask. And if told no, then they left it alone.
Nor did I remove everything in my house and put it away. They were taught if it was not theirs, or if they were told to leave it alone, that's just what I meant.
I tried to raise honest kids. They were rewarded when a reward was called for. And they were put in time out or spanked for wrong doing.
They called me 'mean' as kids, now they call me 'fair' in discipline and are raising their own children with respect for things such as stealing sweets, misbehaving, and other things kids go through.
Thank you Rock... It looks like I was adding to it when you posted... Don't get me wrong, I don't blame his mother really. I wonder if there could be some inherited traits from her... but he doesn't even remember her. He can see a picture of her and has no idea who she is.
His grandma stepped in and tried to do the best that she could... But she allowed him to think that the entire world revolves around his every whim/desire. If he wants something... everything is dropped and he gets it. he threw a temper tantrum in a store about a pair of cowboy boots that he wanted. She told us "Well... he was having a fit so I bought them."
I have no doubts that he is a difficult child... I am now staying home with him, so I see it each and every day. :) I just wonder if there is maybe something else that could be going on with him. When I was going to college I worked in a pre-school. I never saw a child with behavior quite like his.
I can see a beautiful child in him... and I am terrified that the arrival of a new baby is going to put us back to step one.
His grandma stepped in and tried to do the best that she could... But she allowed him to think that the entire world revolves around his every whim/desire. If he wants something... everything is dropped and he gets it. he threw a temper tantrum in a store about a pair of cowboy boots that he wanted. She told us "Well... he was having a fit so I bought them."
I have no doubts that he is a difficult child... I am now staying home with him, so I see it each and every day. :) I just wonder if there is maybe something else that could be going on with him. When I was going to college I worked in a pre-school. I never saw a child with behavior quite like his.
I can see a beautiful child in him... and I am terrified that the arrival of a new baby is going to put us back to step one.
You know, he sounds like he has very little impulse control - especially where it comes to sweets. Some kids crave sweets, some don't want them at all.
If every day he gets into candy he's not supposed to eat, and every day you have to punish or scold him for it, and this goes on every day, it's time to do something different. Maybe a lock box for candy? Maybe no candy in the home? (That's just me talking, I could live without candy no problem whatsoever).
I heard a chid behaviorist one time say if you catch yourself saying "I've told you over and over" - that means what you're doing isn't working. Do something else, like preclude him from taking the unhealthy food. And I don't think I'd spank a child for eating muffins, although saying you've had lots of sweets already today, how about just one muffin and you can have more tomorrow". It's amazing, if you give a kid just a little bit instead of none, it works out better.
If every day he gets into candy he's not supposed to eat, and every day you have to punish or scold him for it, and this goes on every day, it's time to do something different. Maybe a lock box for candy? Maybe no candy in the home? (That's just me talking, I could live without candy no problem whatsoever).
I heard a chid behaviorist one time say if you catch yourself saying "I've told you over and over" - that means what you're doing isn't working. Do something else, like preclude him from taking the unhealthy food. And I don't think I'd spank a child for eating muffins, although saying you've had lots of sweets already today, how about just one muffin and you can have more tomorrow". It's amazing, if you give a kid just a little bit instead of none, it works out better.
I just read this to my mother. She said that I should really point out some of his other odd behaviors. He is very smart... but it seems that we go over the same things every day. Sometimes the same exact thing several times a day. He doesn't forget. He can clearly tell you what he did wrong, what he should have done differently, and that he knows that he is going to get into trouble for doing it.
i.e.: He has been getting into sweets without asking on a daily basis. I told him "Okay... you got into the candy without asking... so now you don't get any of the muffins that we just made." I left the room and came back and he had destroyed most of the muffins by eating the tops off of them as fast as he could stuff them into his mouth. His dad spanked him for this and less than an hour later when no one was looking he snuck back into the kitchen and did the same thing to more of the muffins. His dad spanked him again... but in the morning before anyone was awake... he snuck out to the kitchen, found the rest of the muffins and repeated the behavior. He is not deprived of sweets...
i.e.: He has been getting into sweets without asking on a daily basis. I told him "Okay... you got into the candy without asking... so now you don't get any of the muffins that we just made." I left the room and came back and he had destroyed most of the muffins by eating the tops off of them as fast as he could stuff them into his mouth. His dad spanked him for this and less than an hour later when no one was looking he snuck back into the kitchen and did the same thing to more of the muffins. His dad spanked him again... but in the morning before anyone was awake... he snuck out to the kitchen, found the rest of the muffins and repeated the behavior. He is not deprived of sweets...
I'm surprised you could write this detailed story and not come to the conclusion that maybe it isn't grandma and mom's fault that he misbehaves. Maybe he's just a hard kid to deal with, and that's why grandma treated him that way - not grandma treated him that way so he became a bad kid.
He's a hard kid. He might have inherited a very difficult personality - but either way, I think you just got a double dose of the message that you can't blame the parent if the kid doesn't behave - some just don't.
And I think that much of the ground you've gained with stability will now be lost with the blow to his world when the new baby comes.
Best wishes, and kudos for trying. Hope he is able to cope and recover.
He's a hard kid. He might have inherited a very difficult personality - but either way, I think you just got a double dose of the message that you can't blame the parent if the kid doesn't behave - some just don't.
And I think that much of the ground you've gained with stability will now be lost with the blow to his world when the new baby comes.
Best wishes, and kudos for trying. Hope he is able to cope and recover.
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