Aa
Can I or should I help?
I've had some concerns for a while now and haven't been sure what to do, but ever since yesterday I'm more bothered by them and need to ask all of you for your input.
Our neighbor - a 35 year old divorced mom has a daughter who is 12 and goes to school with my daughter. We aren't very close but we talk frequently...not about anything personal, just the kids and day to day stuff. Ever since her divorce 4 years ago, we've invited her over sometimes for meals and always for Thanksgiving since her family is small and they don't really get together anymore. We have always liked her and her daughter but recently (over the last year or so) my husband and I have gradually started to worry about her relationship with her daughter.
In short, she seems to be both depending too much on her and infantilizing her at the same time. Both girls have just started puberty...my daughter's friend has actually been developing for a while now. You can see nipples and breast buds through most of her clothing and it's obvious the girl is embarassed. Her mother has said that "She's too young to wear a bra...no daughter of mine is going to be a woman until she's well into high school". But, she IS becoming a woman. Her daughter technically was a "woman" the day she was born.
She also talks a lot of baby talk to the girl - this is a change since she didn't do it before, at least not in front of us of is she did. Once her daughter was going to sleep over at our house and was getting ready to put her pajamas on just as her mother was leaving and her mother said in a very infantile tone "Go put your jammy wammies on and make sure you brush your toofies". Her daughter felt very angry and embarassed, obviously.
She also yells at her if her and my daughter are talking about boys. I'm as sure as any parent can be that neither one is doing anything they shouldn't be at their age, but her mother has gone so far as to ask the girl "What's wrong with her" for liking boys at such a young age and that she "didn't raise her that way." My neighbor has also gradually isolated her daughter from all social activities. The girls used to be in dance together...now my neighbor has taken her daughter out. She had a mild case of tendonitis and had to sit out a couple weeks. Nothing serious, my daughter has had minor dance injuries too over the years. Except that was my neighbor's excuse to not allow her to return..."she's just not strong enough". BS...she's been hurt LESS than my daughter. She tells me all the things "wrong" with all of her daughters other friends. "I heard that Murphy girl was caught drinking". "I don't want my daughter playing all those violent video games the other kids play" which, by the way, girls don't generally like. "Some kids start smoking at this age and that's something my child won't start". She has isolated her child socially due to a bunch of hearsays and maybes.
Yesterday was the icing on the cake. At dinner we were talking about a class trip that the the entire 7th grade is going to be taking at the end of the year to Mall of America. It's something the kids have had to earn...any child with less than a 2.5 GPA (about a C+ average) can't go, as can't any child who has had a suspension or more than 2 detentions and some other similar criteria. Both my daughter and the other girl have earned the right to go, but my neighbor took the time to pipe up, at the table, in front of both kids, my husband and I, and a couple other people "Well, MY daughter isn't going. She hasn't earned the privilige from ME. All she does is come home and talk about boys and god only KNOWS what she'll do when she gets there. Besides...what am I supposed to do? Sit in the house all alone all weekend? It's not up to the school to tell ME when my child will and will not be home."
Apparently this was the first her daughter heard that she wasn't going and freaked out. I can't blame her. Not one little bit. She's at the age where she wants to start to develop and spread her wings and her mother appears to be distrusting her for no reason and trying to absorb her. The ONLY other child she sees socially now is my daugher and we're convinced it's just because we live next door and she can police her.
We consider this emotional abuse. It's not up to a 12 year old to parent her mother, who seems to be shutting down due to the loss of her relationship. Is this something we can or should intervene on? Or should we just try to make the other girl's life as normal as possible when she's in our home and do nothing more? We've never dealt with anything like this and are unsure how to proceed?
Our neighbor - a 35 year old divorced mom has a daughter who is 12 and goes to school with my daughter. We aren't very close but we talk frequently...not about anything personal, just the kids and day to day stuff. Ever since her divorce 4 years ago, we've invited her over sometimes for meals and always for Thanksgiving since her family is small and they don't really get together anymore. We have always liked her and her daughter but recently (over the last year or so) my husband and I have gradually started to worry about her relationship with her daughter.
In short, she seems to be both depending too much on her and infantilizing her at the same time. Both girls have just started puberty...my daughter's friend has actually been developing for a while now. You can see nipples and breast buds through most of her clothing and it's obvious the girl is embarassed. Her mother has said that "She's too young to wear a bra...no daughter of mine is going to be a woman until she's well into high school". But, she IS becoming a woman. Her daughter technically was a "woman" the day she was born.
She also talks a lot of baby talk to the girl - this is a change since she didn't do it before, at least not in front of us of is she did. Once her daughter was going to sleep over at our house and was getting ready to put her pajamas on just as her mother was leaving and her mother said in a very infantile tone "Go put your jammy wammies on and make sure you brush your toofies". Her daughter felt very angry and embarassed, obviously.
She also yells at her if her and my daughter are talking about boys. I'm as sure as any parent can be that neither one is doing anything they shouldn't be at their age, but her mother has gone so far as to ask the girl "What's wrong with her" for liking boys at such a young age and that she "didn't raise her that way." My neighbor has also gradually isolated her daughter from all social activities. The girls used to be in dance together...now my neighbor has taken her daughter out. She had a mild case of tendonitis and had to sit out a couple weeks. Nothing serious, my daughter has had minor dance injuries too over the years. Except that was my neighbor's excuse to not allow her to return..."she's just not strong enough". BS...she's been hurt LESS than my daughter. She tells me all the things "wrong" with all of her daughters other friends. "I heard that Murphy girl was caught drinking". "I don't want my daughter playing all those violent video games the other kids play" which, by the way, girls don't generally like. "Some kids start smoking at this age and that's something my child won't start". She has isolated her child socially due to a bunch of hearsays and maybes.
Yesterday was the icing on the cake. At dinner we were talking about a class trip that the the entire 7th grade is going to be taking at the end of the year to Mall of America. It's something the kids have had to earn...any child with less than a 2.5 GPA (about a C+ average) can't go, as can't any child who has had a suspension or more than 2 detentions and some other similar criteria. Both my daughter and the other girl have earned the right to go, but my neighbor took the time to pipe up, at the table, in front of both kids, my husband and I, and a couple other people "Well, MY daughter isn't going. She hasn't earned the privilige from ME. All she does is come home and talk about boys and god only KNOWS what she'll do when she gets there. Besides...what am I supposed to do? Sit in the house all alone all weekend? It's not up to the school to tell ME when my child will and will not be home."
Apparently this was the first her daughter heard that she wasn't going and freaked out. I can't blame her. Not one little bit. She's at the age where she wants to start to develop and spread her wings and her mother appears to be distrusting her for no reason and trying to absorb her. The ONLY other child she sees socially now is my daugher and we're convinced it's just because we live next door and she can police her.
We consider this emotional abuse. It's not up to a 12 year old to parent her mother, who seems to be shutting down due to the loss of her relationship. Is this something we can or should intervene on? Or should we just try to make the other girl's life as normal as possible when she's in our home and do nothing more? We've never dealt with anything like this and are unsure how to proceed?
Tough call. First thought was that the mother may have joined one of those religious groups that see evil lurking in nook of their environment. And then I thought it might be the mother`s own feeling of "boys and men are trouble" that she is projecting on to her daughter. I`m only saying this becasue my own mother told me, when I was born she looked at me and cried that I was a girl - that too would have to go through all the "sufffering" that women go through. She is still obsessed with that thought 46 years later.... So - I think the only help you can offer is to take her daughter along to some of your outings as often as possible so she gets a break from this psychology trip. Even if it is mainly that she is afraid to be alone, her daughter could use time away from her.
RockRose,
That's my main concern as well. I really don't think anyone in the group is drinking. I haven't seen any signs that the girl in question was drinking, I haven't heard anything myself, and of course I don't rule anything out (that's walking around with blinders on) but the girl and the family just don't seem the type. We live in a pretty small town, and I'm sure word of 12 year olds getting busted with alcohol would have gotten around. My gut tells me that our neighbor is making things up to keep her daughter from her peers.
I also don't think the girls are obsessed with boys beyond what is normal. They're just starting to notice them and have their first "crushes"...mine just went through a crush on an older man...and they talk about what boys are cute. It's all very innocent and I think appropriate for where they are in their lives.
I get the same thing you get - that there ARE no unacceptable influences - or at least none beyond what always exists, but rather that our neighbor refuses to let her child grow up and develop for fear that she will leave her. That's my concern. It seems to have gotten MUCH worse now that the girls are developing into young women. When they were still "children" our neighbor seemed much more comfortable with allowing her daughter normal development and normal activities.
That's my main concern as well. I really don't think anyone in the group is drinking. I haven't seen any signs that the girl in question was drinking, I haven't heard anything myself, and of course I don't rule anything out (that's walking around with blinders on) but the girl and the family just don't seem the type. We live in a pretty small town, and I'm sure word of 12 year olds getting busted with alcohol would have gotten around. My gut tells me that our neighbor is making things up to keep her daughter from her peers.
I also don't think the girls are obsessed with boys beyond what is normal. They're just starting to notice them and have their first "crushes"...mine just went through a crush on an older man...and they talk about what boys are cute. It's all very innocent and I think appropriate for where they are in their lives.
I get the same thing you get - that there ARE no unacceptable influences - or at least none beyond what always exists, but rather that our neighbor refuses to let her child grow up and develop for fear that she will leave her. That's my concern. It seems to have gotten MUCH worse now that the girls are developing into young women. When they were still "children" our neighbor seemed much more comfortable with allowing her daughter normal development and normal activities.
catlovermom - I agree and disagree. This mother does sound very very over protective, and how embarrassing that would be to have your mother babytalk you! Geez.
On the other side of the coin, I do know people who are this restrictive, (not me, I swear, I allow my children to own firecrackers and bb guns!) and their kids turn out great.
Their culture is restrictive, and they mostly associate with extended family or other homeschooled children, the whole focus is extreme supervision of the children. So I get that. The big red flag in your post is the part about "what am I supposed to do all weekend". That's where the house of cards comes tumbling down, in my perspective. She doesn't seem to be protecting her daughter from unacceptable influences as much as she is wanting her company all the time. Ooh. Not good.
Frankly, I would be concerned too if my 12 year old daughter (I have no daughters, only sons) was totally focused on boys in a romantic way. And if someone in their 12 year old crowd was drinking. I would REALLY be concerned.
But it sounds like that's not the picture here - she's worried that her companion is going somewhere else. Odd. Maybe the mother needs to develop girlfriends instead of relying on her daughter.
On the other side of the coin, I do know people who are this restrictive, (not me, I swear, I allow my children to own firecrackers and bb guns!) and their kids turn out great.
Their culture is restrictive, and they mostly associate with extended family or other homeschooled children, the whole focus is extreme supervision of the children. So I get that. The big red flag in your post is the part about "what am I supposed to do all weekend". That's where the house of cards comes tumbling down, in my perspective. She doesn't seem to be protecting her daughter from unacceptable influences as much as she is wanting her company all the time. Ooh. Not good.
Frankly, I would be concerned too if my 12 year old daughter (I have no daughters, only sons) was totally focused on boys in a romantic way. And if someone in their 12 year old crowd was drinking. I would REALLY be concerned.
But it sounds like that's not the picture here - she's worried that her companion is going somewhere else. Odd. Maybe the mother needs to develop girlfriends instead of relying on her daughter.
Thanks, that's kind of what we were thinking because to our knowledge the girl isn't being hit or deprived of basic life needs...but then again we're also thinking isn't social interaction and the right to age appropriate activities a basic life need? She won't develop normally with her mother taking over her life like this.
And I do agree, we don't know her very well and there could be (although I really doubt) something else going on. The reason I say I doubt it is becuase of the way she refers to her daughter even when she's in the room. It's always "my child" or "this girl" or any number of generic, demeaning, very possessive terms. It really gives us the creeps because it's like our neighbor no longer ackowledges her daughter as human but rather as a possession. She seems to be squashing her developing personality to meet her own needs for attention that she SHOULD be getting from other adults.
My husband and I plan to talk it over with a police officer friend of ours and get some "informal" guidance from him, but we plan to try to enrich this young lady's life as much as we can when she's over at our house. But, we have already agreed that 1) If she exhibits signs of depression or self hatred or an inability to function or 2 ) She shows up with some unexplainable injury that doesn't seem reasonable for a 12 year old, we're calling CPS without a second thought.
And I do agree, we don't know her very well and there could be (although I really doubt) something else going on. The reason I say I doubt it is becuase of the way she refers to her daughter even when she's in the room. It's always "my child" or "this girl" or any number of generic, demeaning, very possessive terms. It really gives us the creeps because it's like our neighbor no longer ackowledges her daughter as human but rather as a possession. She seems to be squashing her developing personality to meet her own needs for attention that she SHOULD be getting from other adults.
My husband and I plan to talk it over with a police officer friend of ours and get some "informal" guidance from him, but we plan to try to enrich this young lady's life as much as we can when she's over at our house. But, we have already agreed that 1) If she exhibits signs of depression or self hatred or an inability to function or 2 ) She shows up with some unexplainable injury that doesn't seem reasonable for a 12 year old, we're calling CPS without a second thought.
I see your concern...however there is not much you can do about it. You could call CYF, but it doesn't sound like there are any protection issues, so they'll leave it alone. I would agree that this woman and her daughter could benefit from therapy, but if you were to suggest that to her, i would bet that your daughter would see less and less of her friend. It doesn't sound like emotional abuse per se, but does sound like this mother is too attached to her daughter. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like there's alot you can do, other than be supportive to this woman...she seems to be going through alot. Maybe ask her why she doesn't want her daughter to go on this trip. She sounds very overprotective, and that can be concerning...however she may have her reasons. you said you didn't know her all that well....so there's probably more to the story than you realize..so keep that in mind. Best of luck, it sounds like a tough situation.
Have an Answer?
You are reading content posted in the Child Behavior Community
Fearing autism, many parents aren't vaccinating their kids. Can doctors reverse this dangerous trend?
Is a gluten-free diet right for you?
We answer your top questions about the flu vaccine.
Learn which over-the-counter medicines are safe for you and your baby
Yummy eats that will keep your child healthy and happy
Healing home remedies for common ailments
