Defiant and Erratic 14 Year Old

[LW-C]

My son is 14 and has ADD, and has been on Adderall (adderrall) since the second grade.  He is in 8th grade this year and is failing miserably.  He refuses to write down his class assignments, back talks the teachers and lies about having homework or other assignments that are due. I keep in constant communication with his teachers through e-mail, have had face to face conferences, talked to the guidance counselor,you name it. We have begged, threatened, punished, loved and everything in between, but nothing seems to make a difference. Today he was asked by a teacher 4 separate times to put something away and he refused then had a tantrum which landed him in the office.  When there, he proceeded to swear at the office assistant and yell about the teacher who sent him there. He is extremely bright and has quite a sense of humor but is wasting his life at this point.  He has become increasingly angry and acts like we, along with any one else in authority, are the enemy.  He promises to straighten out but in a day or two is right back at it even worse than before.  My husband and I are at our wits end and at a loss as to what we can do to turn it around. Could the Adderall (adderrall) be affecting his behavior?  He takes 20mg in the morning and 20mg around lunchtime. The doctor recently added the afternoon dose as he was having problems later in the day concentrating. He does not want to take the medicine at all, so half the time he doesn't take the afternoon dose. He has lots of anger and we don't know why. We have a wonderful life, and he has lots of friends and family who love and support him, but he is one angry boy and has outbursts at home and school over the smallest things. He gets himself into trouble, then says that everyone else is a liar and no body believes him. I feel like he is spending most of his childhood being punished and the sad part is, he acts like it really doesn't matter. If he is confronted about his behavior he will scream and try and turn it on you, screaming that we hate him, etc.  I am going to take him to a child psychologist at this point to see if they can figure out why he is so angry. Any insight into what we might be able to do would be appreciated as I feel like I am drowning and there is no way to the surface, maybe he feels like that too, but he isn't talking.

[Kevin Kennedy, Ph.D.]

Your son certainly displays emotional disorder alongside his ADHD. It is unlikely that behavior this extreme can be brought on by the stimulant medication, though such medication can result in some depressive-like irritability and prickliness with some children (particularly in the latter phase of a dose). Re: the Adderall (adderrall), it would make sense to start him on a long-acting preparation, such as Adderall (adderrall) XR, so he has to take it only once daily and he doesn't have the nuisance of one dose waning while he awaits the build up of the second dose. In addition, though, he should also be started on either a mood stabilizer or an antidepressant, and the clinician can guide you about this.

[5kids247]

I am no expert here, but I too have a son who has ADD and has been treated since he was 6 (he is now 16). The first medication that he was put on did just what you are describing that your son is doing - angry, frustrated etc. but he was six.  I remember the first time I went back to get the perscription filled the pharmacist asked me how he was doing and when I told her that I didn't know who this little boy was anymore, he was no longer the sweet and happy, helpful little boy that he use to be.  I told her that when he gets angry he doesn't even look like himself.  I also told her that he would fight us to take his medication-it would take both my husband and I to hold him down and force the meds down him. I HATED IT! Her response- "I'm not going to refill this for you - PLEASE call your doctor in the morning and tell him what is happening." She also said that kids are VERY smart and they KNOW when something doesn't make them feel right.  Again, my son was just 6 when this started, but his medication was immediately changed and he has remained on the same med for 10 years now.  If he misses a dose he can tell a difference. And the nice thing is - he takes it at night and that is all.  They later found that his ADD was set off because he never would get into the Rapid Eye Movement in his sleep and because he wasn't getting a good nights rest he was adjetated and "antsy" all day long.  The medication that he is on, helps him to sleep and honestly, he is a great kid - a normal teenager - but a good kid.  He isn't drowsy or groggy during the day and I don't know about you but I hate that feeling and most of the meds that are given during the day send kids on emotional rollercoasters and they just can't function. Who can blame them. - I have a tendancty to ramble-but what I was trying to say is - if your son isn't wanting to take his meds there may be a good reason why-he probably doesn't like the way he feels when coming "down" from the med the going back "up" - ask your doctor about other alternative meds. I'm glad I did, but more greatful that a pharmacist was aware enough to know to not fill the next refill. Good luck! If you need someone to chat with - I'm here! Don't give up on him - oh, one other thing - you may want to check and see if you have available in your area, usually through the public school systems, (night classes), for parents of teens w/ADD, and teens w/ADD support groups and classes - they are pretty informative and helpful - and help kids to know that it isn't just them nor is it made up - their feelings are real - our feelings and concerns are real too...Let me know how it goes! Take care

[nervousreck70]

I feel like you have just discribed my child, He is the exact same way. My son was dianosed with a.d.h.d when he was 5. I had always thought he was just more active then others. And I delt with it. Then it got to where he was just becomeing impossiable. We had him tested and they wanted to put him on ritalin. We declined after all he was only 5. We tried the diet thing no help. We were forced to put him on the meds and the doctor was giving him higher and higher doses which if given a wrong dose can have the adverse effect on anyone. Needless to say he got to where he literaly bounced off my walls. At this time they had a program in our area but only if the welfare department was called in. Called Family home Builders. This program made it to where a counciler and a paralegal came out to our home at any given time and evaluated our family. Of course to start off with we weren't happy, but they offered to help us and our child to understand and help us to cope with the a.d.h.d. We bennifited from this program extreemly well. If your kid is in an e.s.e. class, they send out workshops that you can go to for help. My child has and is doing everything your child is doing now. Grades dropping and us being in constant contact but when at someone elses place is an angel. Since we found out our son had this we have never lied to or left him out of the decisions dealing with his treatment or what can happen if to many meds are taking. I was critized for this from so many people saying my 5 yr old shouldn't know things like this. Knowing things like this my son helped to save a neighbors life when she od'd on perscription meds. i haven't been critisized since. he is now 14 and in the 8th grade and the grades and attitude have deteriated. He is an abituate lier and at anytime he gets in trouble everyone else is the blame. (Normal response from add and adhd children.) Here we have a behavioral clinic that at any time our son needs to be evaluated he is put in there for 3 days and the doctors determine if its to much or to little. My son has gone thru alot of changes being at the stage he is now. He is even going as far as stealing and saying he don't think before he does by the time he thinks its to late. another normal response. I do have to tell you that children with this are smarter than most. They can tell you exactly what they feel with and without meds.My son tells his doctors he thinks he;s overriding meds. And they check it out. They are extreemly smart. Probally smarter than all of us. I have a conciler who goes to my sons school once a week to talk to him anything my son wants to say the man is there to listen. This is one thing that my son says helps. Maybe you can find a similur program in your area. My son also has trouble with sleep walking so much to the point we had to put an alarm on his door to tell us he was walking around. He has went as far as to walk out our door. Sometimes he can be violent and other times he's just looking for me and even asks me if i know where i am he can't find me. I take him by the sholders and guide him back to bed. The doctors a few years ago put him on geodon. You wouldn't believe the difference. I no longer have to go to the shed to get a knife to cut a piece of fruit because Im afraid he will try to stab my daughter. We put her in self defense classes to help to protect herself from him when we aren't there. It is a scary feeling to have to deal with this type of child and i truely understand what you are going through. Maybe your school can have an online site that teachers can put the weekly homework on for his grade and classes. This way you always know what he has for homework. We did this along with weekly grades coming home and it has helped him tremdously. He was put on a combination of meds. adderall (adderrall) and tennex to help the effects of the adderal and geodon. He was on these meds for 3-4 years before he told them he thinks they aren't working anymore. They just recently changed his meds due to the attitude and behavior problems, alot of the times he will tell them no its not the meds its me i'm having trouble behaving and i have a problem with respect. One thing i have taught him from the get go the meds and the adhd are no excuse for his behavior nor can he blame someone else for his doing. These days having a teenager isn't easy and having one with add or adhd etc is even more difficult and it is very helpful to talk to someone who is on the inside looking out not the outside looking in. To people that don't understand it they chalk it up to bad parenting and/or bad seeds. This is not the case by any means. We are good parents and they are good children, the people just don't understand it so they critize it. It seems i have written a novel. so i will close, but if you need someone to talk to i'm here. I hope some of the suggestions i gave can help you good luck hun.

[LW-C]

Thank you for your input, I appreciate all the info that I can get.  I am interested in what medication they finally gave your son that worked for him.  Mine has been on the Adderall (adderrall) for 7 or 8 years and he has always had some problems but they have really intensified in the last few months.  I am sure he is not getting a good nights sleep as I hear him sometimes in the middle of the night getting up.  He tells me he hates the way it makes him feel and I am torn between forcing him to take it, because he cannot concentrate without it, and just saying no more meds.  We tried the timed released and he said it did nothing at all. His Dr. said because he has been on Adderall (adderrall) for a while, the newer meds like Concerta will not help him.  I wonder if I should insist that they try another type to see if it helps.  His school is absolutely useless. I have been crying for some assistance from them forever and they say they have nothing to offer.  A nurse that only comes once a week, no school psychologist, and a counselor that never talks to any of the troubled kids.  My husband asked the school today just what programs they have implemented for at risk kids first they said not much, then they said there was a program in another school (which they never even mentioned before) and said they had a deadline of last Wednesday to get kids from their school into the program so he could not be admitted. Why they never told us about it trough all this, they had no explanation for.I am going to find a child behavioral psychologist for him to go and see.  If nothing else, they may be able to get him to talk about how he feels and why he reacts as he does.  Please let me now what meds they gave your son, I am willing to try any other viable options to help him. It seems like you have to take all the initiative in getting things to change, no one seems to give a darn. Thank you again for taking the time to respond.  It is good to know you are not alone in such a difficult situation.  God Bless

[LW-C]

Thank you for your response.  My son has also been getting increasingly worse in the last few months.  I am sure that a small part of it is the age as they think that they are king of the world, but the majority of it is not adolesence and it has me very worried. What is Geodon?  I have never heard of it. Is it for ADD or a Psychotropic?  I am glad that you have found something that is working for your son, I can only pray that I have a light at the end of the tunnel.  My son's school does have parent connect, but only one teacher actually puts the work on it that is due beforehand. The others only put on what is missed so I cannot intervene before it is too late. I am going to schedule an appointment with a Child Psychologist to see if there is something going on other than the ADD.  I am also going to try and get the Dr, to change his meds to see if he improves.  I am swimming against the tide at this point because I don't know what the key is.  If he doesn't improve in the next month or so he will be held back and that would be a travesty.  He is so very bright and keeping him back will make the situation worse, he will get discouraged and probably not finish high school.  Thanks again for the input.  I appreciate talking with people who have an understanding of what we are going through and can offer their experiences, it is very helpful.  Thanks again.

[5kids247]

Well, the first med they gave my son was Riddalin - and that did to him what you are describing your son as now.  It was horrible - when I first contacted the dr about the problems he was having and the DRASTIC change in his temperment/personality he first said - "maybe he needs a psychologist (pause) and then he said - well, maybe there is one other thing that we can try". So, they put him on Imiprimene - he started w/just 25mg at bed time - or 1/2hour before bed - he goes in every 3 months to have a weight check and height check - just to make sure that he is growing  - which has NEVER been a problem - he is not 5"11 and 160# at 16, (and handsome I should add :o) ) but as he grows is medication increases.  He now takes 100 mg @ bed time - they tried to cut him back down to 75mg about 2 years ago - but he came to me and said - I don't think my medication is working like it use to - so, we went back up - and come to find out he was going through a growth spurt.  This past summer they tried to wean him off and he just became a very aggitated and frustrating kid. He would get upset w/his sisters at the drop of a hat - where before we was very patient with them. He then came to me again and said-"mom, I don't like the way I am treating the girls will you please tell them to increase my meds back" so we did and once again he had a major growth spurt - he grew (thus far) this year a total of 5", of which most came the past 5 months.  His doctor has now agreed that we not do anything with his meds until he is done growing.  He hasn't had to increase over 100mg and seems to be doing just fine. One other thing....DON'T WAIT FOR THE SCHOOL SYSTEM, DR'S OR ANYONE ELSE TO MAKE THE MOVE - IT WON'T HAPPEN - KEEP PUSHING! BE STRONG - I HAD TO FIGHT FOR MY SON TO BE TESTED IN KINDERGARTEN- THEY SAID THAT THEY DON'T TEST UNTIL 3RD OR 4TH GRADE - I DIDN'T CARE - I WANTED IT DONE NOW! I PUSHED AND SHOVED UNTIL I GOT ANSWERS - SOMETIMES GOING TO THE VERY TOP OF THE LINE. I am so glad that I did- He is now in an alternative High School because the High School was just passing him a long as a problem - he is a hands on learner - VERY smart like you said - and you know what - he went from a .95 gpa for his 10th grade year to a 2.5 the first quarter this year - talk about a self esteem builder! His class size ranges from 9-13 instead of the 37-40 or more in the public high school.  He loves it - and he doesn't have to attend as many hours a day and still gets done what needs to be done.  I don't know if your school system is like ours but we have the "block" schedule - where the classes are 2 hours each and they have 2 different schedules -they switch back and forth each day.  I found that this was a BIG problem for my son.  He couldn't stay focused for 2 hours in a class room, reading, being lectured etc. (who can????) so now he just goes 3 hours a day, has 3 classes / still 2 schedules but is doing great. I was really against the alternative high school in the beginning, but I have grown a new appreciation for it. The teachers and administrators REALLY DO CARE about these kids.  They are treated as adults, they have to act as adults, they are there becuase they want these kids to succeed IF they want to.  The kids have to take resposibilty and HAVE to have respect - but they are treated with respect just the same - Sorry, I have rambled again - Just keep pushing - you know your son - you know what he is capable of - don't let anyone dictate to you what you should and shouldn't do - sometimes they (school administrators) don't want to be bothered with it because it takes time - time that they are paid for mind you - but none the less requires more work - keep looking there  is bound to be someone in the system that will hear your plea and want to help you! And if not - just do what you need to yourself. - PS I know that Imipramene is used for many different things - but they also put my husband on it for a time span because he was also having difficutlies with ADD - ya just never know- Good luck - keep my posted!