Five year old Son - Anger Issue? - Help, please!

[Mommaoffour]

I have been having quite a time with my 5 year old son.  He is the youngest of my four children and has been displaying problems for over a year now.  

He can be the sweetest, most loving child.  He can be so sweet ... sit with me for a long time ... he loves to be hugged and loves to show emotion at times.  He behaves, uses manners, says yes please, no thank you .. etc.  He'll do what he's asked or told to do and with no arguments -- it's great.

Then, he can turn in an instant.  You almost don't know when this will happen.  It doesn't have to be anything to make him mad -- it can be just after he wakes up or it can be after he gets home from school.  He's even done a couple of things at school (recently) -- nothing as serious at home, but I'm worried that it's escalating in nature.     Sometimes the change can be due to being told no, being asked to do something, one of his friends not playing with him, his brother or sister not playing with him ... etc.  Sometime it can be something serious that causes the change and sometimes it can be be little .. and sometimes absoltuely nothing at all, there is no pattern in what causes it.  

When he gets angry ... his eyes get big -- he starts breathing angrily -- big, deep breaths that you can hear ...  He'll yell, he'll run at you and hit, kick, scratch you.  He has had times when he says I hate you, or I want a new Mom (sister, brother, etc.)  He'll say he wants to go to a new home, he'll even escalate at times and say he wants to kill you or he has stab he'll stab you - etc.  He can be just angry and mad or he can say really violent things -- again, no pattern.  It's really scary.  

When he's in his good moods, we almost all walk on eggshells and I know it shouldn't be that way.  We do almost anything we can to "preserve" the good moments and try to make the angry moments less.  The problem is, we can't always know when one might come on and almost anything (or nothing at all) can trigger it.  

When he gets angry -- we  just don't know what to do.  Yelling is no good, we all know that.  If someone yells back - or threatens to spank -- or tries to spank .. he just thinks you're fighting with him.  It's no good.  However, he won't do time out ... or anything "rational" because he's in a completely unrational state.  I wish I could explain it better, but I really don't know how to.  

I've looked into behavior therapy, but everything is out of network and they want tons of money to start any kind of therapy.  I don't think simple counseling is going to help my son -- when he's not in his moments - he doesn't understand what you're talking about ... why you're talking to him about being angry -- or, you run the possbiltiy of getting him angry just by talking about it.  When he's in his anger state -- he won't listen.  Nothing you say gets to him, it's as if his sense of hearing is turned off and everything irrational has turned on suddenly.

Help, please!  I love my son and do not want this problem to escalate to something more serious.  I am so worried that things have been slowly escalating as he didn't use to act this way at school .. but, in the past two weeks .... I've been called once by his principal because he (my five year old son in Kindergarten) kicked a third grader in the bathroom and  left marks on him.  Then, the other day he got angry at his teacher and took his glasses off and broke them -- just because he was angry.  

Oh, that's something I forgot to include -- he does break things, tear things up, and throw things.  If you send him to his room -- or if he's in a room that has things in it ... when he's angry, he will break or throw things.  Just today he threw things around in my daughter's room and we've yet to get him to clean them.  He just doesn't respond to us when he gets in these modes.  They can last anywhere from a few minutes to the whole day.  

If anyone has been through anything similar, please let me know -- or, if  you have any ideas / thoughts on what I can do for him.

Thanks for listening (well, reading)!

[LRM1021]

Since you have tried time outs and found that the behavior management did not work, I think you need to step up and get the outside help he needs.

Your child does have anger management issues, and these could be representative of other, more serious mental health issues that require serious treatment. He needs to be seen by a psychiatrist for a diagnosis -- a medical doctor. If the treatment he requires includes therapy, then you can go to a counselor. You have described a child who really needs help - and I don't think that his issues are going to go away or get better unless you give him that help.

I think you need to start with your pediatrician. Alternatively, you could contact your local school board to find out about testing services, since he has some behavior problems at school. They might be able to give you some guidance.

[jennie507]

oh my goodness, i just read about your son and it sounded like you were describing my seven year old. ever since he was walking he is constantly on the go and u never know what is going to set him off. And he even makes the comment that he is going to kill himself, and when he goes to school and says it they will be calling child protective services, they have visited me quite often. My eight year old daughter will have such a violent tantrum that she kicked out her bedroom window. sometimes when the kids fight its like war war six at my house. but when two of them are gone somewhere and its just me and one of the kids things are almost perfect.. U should b able to get some kind of financial help to get him to a mhmr facility. My children get medicaid , they even send us fifty  dollars a week (thru western union) for gas money.  We go three times a week    (for each kid) to counseling then once a month the doctor will see them to discuss their medication and they may change it if necessary.They qualify for disability i just havent went and applied .That just seems like more work. Counseling, doctor visit, and were not even going to discuss how many trips we make to the peditrician for self inflicted wounds, accidents, and checkups, its just all a really lot of work. But im trying cause i dont want to see them loocked up or in foster care..                                                         take care of you or u cant take care of them.    mother of four goin crazy ...  jennie

[bobrob]

it sounds like your son needs to have someone that can relate to him and understand his anger some one that he can talk to and trust in its not you beleve me some times it is just kids dont wont to talk to parants about problems thay need a friend some one that wont thretin to spank them or someone to just lission i thank i can help call 4329408506

[lovemyson118]

I've just finished reading your story.  And I have to say I feel your pain.  I have a son five also and i'm going throught some of the same things you are.  My son lashes out at me,tells me know,do it,or what did I say.  I to have gotten phone calls from the teacher/social worker and I'm sadded.  I cry thinking what have I done wrong/were did I go wrong/I'm a bad parent.  I have found that the school has a family support group in which I will be joining(counseling) it's free.  I feel that if I dont do something know this is going to follow him all the way through school and possible get worse.  I LOVE MY SON!!! and I have to do what ever I can for him.  

[babygirl6152]

when a child or anyone is hurting themselves or others and seems un-teachable or un-trainable, it's time to get help.
a broken record here but do they still have their adenoids (adenoids), tonsils. Do they snore and sleep fitfully? Children with terrible behavior problems have found relief after having tonsillectomy and. adenoidectomy.
Children grow when they are in REM sleep- this is when the pituitary gland "turns on" they also for lack of a better phrase- de-fragmnet and re-boot in REM Sleep- it is a deep sleep- now this does not mean they sleep less- they could sleep a full 10 hours and never go into REM. Imagine how it would be to go literally YEARS without a good night's sleep.

It's worth looking into- as much as folks on here think I am a witch I really do love children with all my heart and soul and hope for the best for you all.

[not2good4u23]

I must say the first comment one hundred percent sounds like my children.  my two boys.  omg i have done coucneling therapy psyciatrists psycologist i mean done it all parenting classes........no help please can someone help me  i am losing my mind and afrain for my kids.......i love them so much

[Natta1980]

Sounds like my 4 year old (although around 3 y.o. we've stopped "walking on eggshells"')

The only thing that helped us is ignoring the tantrum altogether, if he tries to hit/scratch - just block and walk away, ignore the tantrum, do not ignore him. My son figured out pretty quickly that no matter how loudly he screams, it is not going to help him. He used to have massive 15-20 minutes tantrums at home and at school. Now - it is maximum 5 minutes.

Talking to him makes it even worse - he lags in receptive language a bit. My hubby tried spanking - never helped, I do not think it helps with any children really. Time outs did not help. Making him "feel bad"did not help - he does not really care about our/peers approval. It is always helpful to talk afterwards and model approprite ways to react. DO you ever try to reason with your husband when he is angry? I do not...So why would I try to reason with the 4 year old when he is flying off the handle.....

Concentrate on giving him tools to manage his anger and model appropriate responses/behaviors for him. We still have a long way to go, but there is so much improvement.

Before spending $$ on behavior therapy, try to ignore bad behavior and praise good behavior - bad behavior will get worse for 2-3 weeks, but then has to decrease....Keep track of it. How is he with äccepting no - if you are "walking on eggshells"- probably he does not deal with it too well....Let me know if you have this problem, and I can share what worked like a magic for us. Sleep may be an issue - I've noticed that on "no nap at school"days my lil'one is especially irritable.


Keep communication with teachers about his behavior. Be on "their"side - makes things soo much easier:)

Good luck

[pwarden]

We have the same problem with our grandson.The doctor called itOppositional Defiant Disorder.He is now on medicain an has been doing great

[pwarden]

It is called Oppositional Defiant Dis order.My grandson has this an Abilify has been great for him.

[chukker1]

If your grandson has ODD and is on Abilify I would be concerned. Abilify is not indicated to treat ODD and is an atypical antipsychotic for Bipolar Disorder. I would think your grandson's Dr should have started out with and antidepressant before jumping to the "big gun"

[jd522]

And how do you know pwarden's grandsons doctor DIDN'T start out with an anti-depressaant?

[sonny630]

I am in the same boat with my 5 year old daughter.  Her anger is getting out of control and the word no seems to be the trigger.  She is my only child and I wrk 2 jobs and the father is not around as of 8 months ago.  I am in a loss and am willing to try anything.  The time out does not work,taking things away,spanking,nothing seems to work and I can see it getting worse.  Getting ready for school is a nightmare.

I called a few places for counsling and the money is out of line.  They wantlike 400.00 for the first 2 hours.  Who has that kind of money.  Not me...

[sonny630]

Hi there,

Did you call jennie507?  I have her # and I'm going to give her a call maybe she can help me as well.  I am going through the samething with my 5yr daughter.  Sonny630.

[specialmom]

Hello,  my son has sensory integration disorder which is a delay of his nervous system.  One of his issues is modulation/regulation meaning he can upset super easy and go to extremes once upset . . .and it can last a LONG time.  He is 5 and been in occupational therapy for over a year.  Here are some things we've worked on in occupational therapy that HAVE helped:

There are probably some triggers at least part of the time.  Try to watch out for those and fix it before the meltdown/tantrum explodes.  I realize that things can just happen out of nowhere too-----  and this happens most often if my son is tired or not feeling well.  I'm on high alert on those days ready to head off any spiral downward.

We use a temperture scale for him and some basic language that young kids can understand and usually verbalize.  We talk about our body like an engine.  It runs too slow (can't get going, sleepy, when you need to do work and you really want to lay there which is a problem for focas and work at school), too fast (a raging tantrum, super mad, wild and high energy, crazy behavior) or just right (where everything is fine).  Most kids want to be just right.  This is where they feel the best and once they become aware of this----  they try harder to stay just right.  Play a game with pictures (cut from magazine or newpaper) showing people at these stages.  You can even draw the pictures.  Have him tell you if they are slow, high or just right.  You can act these out too and have him guess.  Kids like games and this one helps him learn the difference in his/her own body.  Then using just right as the base of the thermometer----  that is green.  As the child gets a little agitated it turns to yellow.  Then as they get more upset and a tantrum is about to happen---- it is orange.  Then if they go to full blown meltdown----  it is red.  Actually draw one and have them color it.  Then come up with things to do at each stage that may calm them down.  My son is calmed by using his words to express himself, asking for help, chewing something or drinking out of a sportsbottle, counting to 10, taking deep breaths, opening and closing his fist, and having a spot to go to calm down (which can even be set up in the classroom---  my son's teacher has one that she has always had for the kids she teaches).  Then talk to them about this frequently so they can get the language.  You can come up with signs that he/she is moving up the scale of anger (my son stops smiling completely, his eyes narrow, he makes fists at his side, etc.)-----  and you start talking about how he can do the things that calme them to stop them from getting to red.  The goal is that eventually, they can moniter this in themselves.  Know when they are leaving green (just right) and do something to make sure it doesn't hit red!

When he does hit red------  it's hard, isn't it?  I think every tantrum will be a little different so having a few things to choose to do at that moment is helpful.  My son responds to knowing I'm right there but I don't talk to him.  When I do speak, I keep a calm calm calm voice and tell him it is okay.  He sometimes will like a safe spot (pop up tent, pillow area behind a chair, etc.) where he can go.  I give him a pillow to hit if he is like hitting out.  After it is all over, then I calmly would show him the damage he has done.  My son gets upset about this (and actually now rarely will tear anything up because he doesn't want to damage anything.).  I would help him clean up anything he messed up.  We'd calmly talk then about it---- way after the fact.  If you'd like any info on these, let me know.

We've been very blessed to be able to go to an excellent occupational therapist that helps us strategize on any issues.  This all has greatly helped with our son.  We also do lots and lots to keep him regulated throughout the day that includes physical activity and "heavy work" (which isn't work but play that uses the nervous system).  

Also, in our county-----  there is a voucher program that families can use to receive money to help pay for services if they qualify.  These are government grants. I would start the search for such money through your health department. (our county it is $700 and can be used as seen fit for the child's needs.)  

Good luck-----  it is hard but with effort, it will improve.