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Five year old Son - Anger Issue? - Help, please!
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Five year old Son - Anger Issue? - Help, please!

I have been having quite a time with my 5 year old son.  He is the youngest of my four children and has been displaying problems for over a year now.  

He can be the sweetest, most loving child.  He can be so sweet ... sit with me for a long time ... he loves to be hugged and loves to show emotion at times.  He behaves, uses manners, says yes please, no thank you .. etc.  He'll do what he's asked or told to do and with no arguments -- it's great.

Then, he can turn in an instant.  You almost don't know when this will happen.  It doesn't have to be anything to make him mad -- it can be just after he wakes up or it can be after he gets home from school.  He's even done a couple of things at school (recently) -- nothing as serious at home, but I'm worried that it's escalating in nature.     Sometimes the change can be due to being told no, being asked to do something, one of his friends not playing with him, his brother or sister not playing with him ... etc.  Sometime it can be something serious that causes the change and sometimes it can be be little .. and sometimes absoltuely nothing at all, there is no pattern in what causes it.  

When he gets angry ... his eyes get big -- he starts breathing angrily -- big, deep breaths that you can hear ...  He'll yell, he'll run at you and hit, kick, scratch you.  He has had times when he says I hate you, or I want a new Mom (sister, brother, etc.)  He'll say he wants to go to a new home, he'll even escalate at times and say he wants to kill you or he has stab he'll stab you - etc.  He can be just angry and mad or he can say really violent things -- again, no pattern.  It's really scary.  

When he's in his good moods, we almost all walk on eggshells and I know it shouldn't be that way.  We do almost anything we can to "preserve" the good moments and try to make the angry moments less.  The problem is, we can't always know when one might come on and almost anything (or nothing at all) can trigger it.  

When he gets angry -- we  just don't know what to do.  Yelling is no good, we all know that.  If someone yells back - or threatens to spank -- or tries to spank .. he just thinks you're fighting with him.  It's no good.  However, he won't do time out ... or anything "rational" because he's in a completely unrational state.  I wish I could explain it better, but I really don't know how to.  

I've looked into behavior therapy, but everything is out of network and they want tons of money to start any kind of therapy.  I don't think simple counseling is going to help my son -- when he's not in his moments - he doesn't understand what you're talking about ... why you're talking to him about being angry -- or, you run the possbiltiy of getting him angry just by talking about it.  When he's in his anger state -- he won't listen.  Nothing you say gets to him, it's as if his sense of hearing is turned off and everything irrational has turned on suddenly.

Help, please!  I love my son and do not want this problem to escalate to something more serious.  I am so worried that things have been slowly escalating as he didn't use to act this way at school .. but, in the past two weeks .... I've been called once by his principal because he (my five year old son in Kindergarten) kicked a third grader in the bathroom and  left marks on him.  Then, the other day he got angry at his teacher and took his glasses off and broke them -- just because he was angry.  

Oh, that's something I forgot to include -- he does break things, tear things up, and throw things.  If you send him to his room -- or if he's in a room that has things in it ... when he's angry, he will break or throw things.  Just today he threw things around in my daughter's room and we've yet to get him to clean them.  He just doesn't respond to us when he gets in these modes.  They can last anywhere from a few minutes to the whole day.  

If anyone has been through anything similar, please let me know -- or, if  you have any ideas / thoughts on what I can do for him.

Thanks for listening (well, reading)!
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Avatar_f_tn
Since you have tried time outs and found that the behavior management did not work, I think you need to step up and get the outside help he needs.

Your child does have anger management issues, and these could be representative of other, more serious mental health issues that require serious treatment. He needs to be seen by a psychiatrist for a diagnosis -- a medical doctor. If the treatment he requires includes therapy, then you can go to a counselor. You have described a child who really needs help - and I don't think that his issues are going to go away or get better unless you give him that help.

I think you need to start with your pediatrician. Alternatively, you could contact your local school board to find out about testing services, since he has some behavior problems at school. They might be able to give you some guidance.
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Avatar_n_tn
oh my goodness, i just read about your son and it sounded like you were describing my seven year old. ever since he was walking he is constantly on the go and u never know what is going to set him off. And he even makes the comment that he is going to kill himself, and when he goes to school and says it they will be calling child protective services, they have visited me quite often. My eight year old daughter will have such a violent tantrum that she kicked out her bedroom window. sometimes when the kids fight its like war war six at my house. but when two of them are gone somewhere and its just me and one of the kids things are almost perfect.. U should b able to get some kind of financial help to get him to a mhmr facility. My children get medicaid , they even send us fifty  dollars a week (thru western union) for gas money.  We go three times a week    (for each kid) to counseling then once a month the doctor will see them to discuss their medication and they may change it if necessary.They qualify for disability i just havent went and applied .That just seems like more work. Counseling, doctor visit, and were not even going to discuss how many trips we make to the peditrician for self inflicted wounds, accidents, and checkups, its just all a really lot of work. But im trying cause i dont want to see them loocked up or in foster care..                                                         take care of you or u cant take care of them.    mother of four goin crazy ...  jennie
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Avatar_n_tn
I've just finished reading your story.  And I have to say I feel your pain.  I have a son five also and i'm going throught some of the same things you are.  My son lashes out at me,tells me know,do it,or what did I say.  I to have gotten phone calls from the teacher/social worker and I'm sadded.  I cry thinking what have I done wrong/were did I go wrong/I'm a bad parent.  I have found that the school has a family support group in which I will be joining(counseling) it's free.  I feel that if I dont do something know this is going to follow him all the way through school and possible get worse.  I LOVE MY SON!!! and I have to do what ever I can for him.  
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when a child or anyone is hurting themselves or others and seems un-teachable or un-trainable, it's time to get help.
a broken record here but do they still have their adenoids (adenoids), tonsils. Do they snore and sleep fitfully? Children with terrible behavior problems have found relief after having tonsillectomy and. adenoidectomy.
Children grow when they are in REM sleep- this is when the pituitary gland "turns on" they also for lack of a better phrase- de-fragmnet and re-boot in REM Sleep- it is a deep sleep- now this does not mean they sleep less- they could sleep a full 10 hours and never go into REM. Imagine how it would be to go literally YEARS without a good night's sleep.

It's worth looking into- as much as folks on here think I am a witch I really do love children with all my heart and soul and hope for the best for you all.
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Avatar_n_tn
I must say the first comment one hundred percent sounds like my children.  my two boys.  omg i have done coucneling therapy psyciatrists psycologist i mean done it all parenting classes........no help please can someone help me  i am losing my mind and afrain for my kids.......i love them so much
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Avatar_f_tn
Sounds like my 4 year old (although around 3 y.o. we've stopped "walking on eggshells"')

The only thing that helped us is ignoring the tantrum altogether, if he tries to hit/scratch - just block and walk away, ignore the tantrum, do not ignore him. My son figured out pretty quickly that no matter how loudly he screams, it is not going to help him. He used to have massive 15-20 minutes tantrums at home and at school. Now - it is maximum 5 minutes.

Talking to him makes it even worse - he lags in receptive language a bit. My hubby tried spanking - never helped, I do not think it helps with any children really. Time outs did not help. Making him "feel bad"did not help - he does not really care about our/peers approval. It is always helpful to talk afterwards and model approprite ways to react. DO you ever try to reason with your husband when he is angry? I do not...So why would I try to reason with the 4 year old when he is flying off the handle.....

Concentrate on giving him tools to manage his anger and model appropriate responses/behaviors for him. We still have a long way to go, but there is so much improvement.

Before spending $$ on behavior therapy, try to ignore bad behavior and praise good behavior - bad behavior will get worse for 2-3 weeks, but then has to decrease....Keep track of it. How is he with äccepting no - if you are "walking on eggshells"- probably he does not deal with it too well....Let me know if you have this problem, and I can share what worked like a magic for us. Sleep may be an issue - I've noticed that on "no nap at school"days my lil'one is especially irritable.


Keep communication with teachers about his behavior. Be on "their"side - makes things soo much easier:)

Good luck



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Avatar_f_tn
We have the same problem with our grandson.The doctor called itOppositional Defiant Disorder.He is now on medicain an has been doing great
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Avatar_f_tn
It is called Oppositional Defiant Dis order.My grandson has this an Abilify has been great for him.
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If your grandson has ODD and is on Abilify I would be concerned. Abilify is not indicated to treat ODD and is an atypical antipsychotic for Bipolar Disorder. I would think your grandson's Dr should have started out with and antidepressant before jumping to the "big gun"
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Avatar_n_tn
And how do you know pwarden's grandsons doctor DIDN'T start out with an anti-depressaant?
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Avatar_n_tn
I am in the same boat with my 5 year old daughter.  Her anger is getting out of control and the word no seems to be the trigger.  She is my only child and I wrk 2 jobs and the father is not around as of 8 months ago.  I am in a loss and am willing to try anything.  The time out does not work,taking things away,spanking,nothing seems to work and I can see it getting worse.  Getting ready for school is a nightmare.

I called a few places for counsling and the money is out of line.  They wantlike 400.00 for the first 2 hours.  Who has that kind of money.  Not me...
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Avatar_n_tn
Hi there,

Did you call jennie507?  I have her # and I'm going to give her a call maybe she can help me as well.  I am going through the samething with my 5yr daughter.  Sonny630.
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Hello,  my son has sensory integration disorder which is a delay of his nervous system.  One of his issues is modulation/regulation meaning he can upset super easy and go to extremes once upset . . .and it can last a LONG time.  He is 5 and been in occupational therapy for over a year.  Here are some things we've worked on in occupational therapy that HAVE helped:

There are probably some triggers at least part of the time.  Try to watch out for those and fix it before the meltdown/tantrum explodes.  I realize that things can just happen out of nowhere too-----  and this happens most often if my son is tired or not feeling well.  I'm on high alert on those days ready to head off any spiral downward.

We use a temperture scale for him and some basic language that young kids can understand and usually verbalize.  We talk about our body like an engine.  It runs too slow (can't get going, sleepy, when you need to do work and you really want to lay there which is a problem for focas and work at school), too fast (a raging tantrum, super mad, wild and high energy, crazy behavior) or just right (where everything is fine).  Most kids want to be just right.  This is where they feel the best and once they become aware of this----  they try harder to stay just right.  Play a game with pictures (cut from magazine or newpaper) showing people at these stages.  You can even draw the pictures.  Have him tell you if they are slow, high or just right.  You can act these out too and have him guess.  Kids like games and this one helps him learn the difference in his/her own body.  Then using just right as the base of the thermometer----  that is green.  As the child gets a little agitated it turns to yellow.  Then as they get more upset and a tantrum is about to happen---- it is orange.  Then if they go to full blown meltdown----  it is red.  Actually draw one and have them color it.  Then come up with things to do at each stage that may calm them down.  My son is calmed by using his words to express himself, asking for help, chewing something or drinking out of a sportsbottle, counting to 10, taking deep breaths, opening and closing his fist, and having a spot to go to calm down (which can even be set up in the classroom---  my son's teacher has one that she has always had for the kids she teaches).  Then talk to them about this frequently so they can get the language.  You can come up with signs that he/she is moving up the scale of anger (my son stops smiling completely, his eyes narrow, he makes fists at his side, etc.)-----  and you start talking about how he can do the things that calme them to stop them from getting to red.  The goal is that eventually, they can moniter this in themselves.  Know when they are leaving green (just right) and do something to make sure it doesn't hit red!

When he does hit red------  it's hard, isn't it?  I think every tantrum will be a little different so having a few things to choose to do at that moment is helpful.  My son responds to knowing I'm right there but I don't talk to him.  When I do speak, I keep a calm calm calm voice and tell him it is okay.  He sometimes will like a safe spot (pop up tent, pillow area behind a chair, etc.) where he can go.  I give him a pillow to hit if he is like hitting out.  After it is all over, then I calmly would show him the damage he has done.  My son gets upset about this (and actually now rarely will tear anything up because he doesn't want to damage anything.).  I would help him clean up anything he messed up.  We'd calmly talk then about it---- way after the fact.  If you'd like any info on these, let me know.

We've been very blessed to be able to go to an excellent occupational therapist that helps us strategize on any issues.  This all has greatly helped with our son.  We also do lots and lots to keep him regulated throughout the day that includes physical activity and "heavy work" (which isn't work but play that uses the nervous system).  

Also, in our county-----  there is a voucher program that families can use to receive money to help pay for services if they qualify.  These are government grants. I would start the search for such money through your health department. (our county it is $700 and can be used as seen fit for the child's needs.)  

Good luck-----  it is hard but with effort, it will improve.
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Avatar_f_tn
my son is also 5, and im having the same problem. if i send him to his room, he will slam the door and break stuff. he just lookes so angry, i feel what did i do to cause this...my husband just thinks that he is spoiled. i think its something more.i was hoping it was aa phase, but its been going on a while.i would hate to have to give him meds over this.
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Avatar_n_tn
my daughter is same she has just turned 6 and is the most behaved child ever she does what she is told and is really caring and affectionate, but the past couple of weeks she has not been allowed to play outside now that its back to school time and when we take her in she has a tantrum kicking things breaking things wrecking her room telling us she wishes she was in another home or she wants to be dead. My husband and i dont know what we should be doing we try to calm her.  I blame myself because i suffer with and anxiety disorder and even though i try to keep it from the kids i have my up and down days and i  am worried she is inheriting it from me

yours

a concerned mother
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Avatar_f_tn
I've just joined because I too am a bit concerned about my 5 yr old son. I would like everyone's ATTENTION PLEASE! I am reading so much about parents who have young children displaying anger issues and tantrums that are currently treating their children for medical issues like ADHD and ODD. Please consider that your child may be showing the early signs of a mood disorder, particularly bipolar disorder. Don't be frightened...hear me out.

I have a beautiful, wonderful, smart, loving little 5 year old boy who is starting to display some intense anger toward me. When he is set off, usually from some sort of frustration or disappointment, he wants to lash out at me. He does this in a variety of ways including, becoming defiant, yelling at the top of his voice, stomping his feet, jumping up and down, crying, balling his hands into fists, accusing me of being mean and ruining his day, breathing heavy, coming at me and getting really close to my face with his fists at his sides, kicking and hitting inanimate objects nearby, telling me he doesn't love me, interrupting me with yells when I try to speak to him calmly, etc. Eventually it can turn to self-loathing, including calling himself stupid repeatedly, slapping himself in the face, or praying out loud that he can listen to his parents.

He rarely displays any behavior problems at school, and he doesn't act up as badly for his father because he fears the spankings his father gives. In fact, he will actually lower his voice to speak angrily at me so his father won't hear him. This has become a more frequent occurrence within the last month.

Some of you may be familiar with some of these behaviors, but, so am I. I am a 32 year old mother of one and teacher who was diagnosed with rapid cycling bipolar disorder and depression when I was a young teen. The unfortunate part is that I spent many years struggling with my anger, and no doctors/psychiatrists ever diagnosed it correctly. When I was about 16 and threatening to cut my mother's (I love my mother more than life itself) eyes out while she slept, my family even began to talk of concerns of possible demonic possession. I knew that I wasn't in control of myself during these times of rage, but I knew I wasn't possessed. That was when I started doing my own research, and was relieved when I read the book, "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me." I finally had the answers to my horrific behavior toward those I loved, and the answer was bipolar disorder. It was extremely hard to diagnose because I am intelligent, social, adaptable, articulate, and it only happened at home toward those I loved the most and felt the safest with. I believe my depression and bipolar disorder are genetic coming from both sides. My paternal grandmother has not been formally diagnosed, but displays severe symptoms of bipolar disorder and my father has displayed intermittent explosive disorder (rage) periodically throughout my childhood. My mother and sisters have all suffered from depression in adulthood.

I've been on various medications to control the manic states of my bipolar disorder and depression since I was a young teen. Thankfully, I live a normal high-functioning life with only some bouts of difficulties. (Don't we all have our own challenges?)

To be honest, it's been a long time since I actually read up on bipolar disorder, but I will try to explain what it's like for me. One who suffers from bipolar disorder may have anger issues or display rage due to an intense fear of abandonment. The cause of that fear can have many origins, including chemical imbalances and traumatic events. The way in which one acts out because of this fear can also vary. (I remember reading that some people with bipolar disorder become sexually promiscuous or get heavy into drugs) Those who have anger/rage issues tend to act out toward those they love the most, or fear losing. Hence the fact that I was so awful to my mom when I became upset.

I did read a comment by someone who posted that they would actually leave the house, lock the door, and retreat to the garden when their child raged. They made sure the house was childproof, but got out of eyesight and harm's way until the child eventually calmed down. However, she mentioned that this often took a long time. She said eventually she started to try to hold him and comfort him during his sob stage, which helped calm him.

Here is the key with bipolar disorder. We push away with ferocity, when what we really need and want is closeness/love/reassurance. We will come across as hateful and vicious, but we are crying inside for our loved ones to tell us to stop because they are going to love us no matter what.

This may not fit for many of your children, but if you think your child may have some of these tendencies, it may be worth looking into. I know I will be looking into child onset of bipolar disorder to see if I can get any insight into my son's recent behavior.

Good luck with all of your children. The answers may not always come easy, but there are answers:)

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Avatar_f_tn
hey take a dep breath. You are on the right track for even admitting your child has a problem. I have a 5 year old son too. He gets angry alot but not to the same extreem as your son . abut i also want to tell you my sister has a 17 year old boy who sounded and did some of the same thaings your son is doing she struggles every day just to get him to want to stay alive. He constitlly say he wants to kill himself and is depressed and has problems with every aspect in his life. I think given your mental history that he may be prone to needing extra help. My sister is bipolar and is fine on the right meds but still can't find the right combo for her son. So start blooking for good counslers now it may not be time for meds yet but get a head start on teaching him how to deal with his out of control feelings . I really hope things get better for you or at least easier. Keep me posted I feel for you its easier to deal with a physically sick child as appossed to the whole mental thing. Trust me I have both to deal with in my kids one mental and the other physical.
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Avatar_f_tn
HI,

I am sure you are going through a really hard time right now. Believe me, I know.  

My son has sensory processing disorder and is currently in OT.  He used to hit and kick me too, pull my hair, etc.  Getting ready for school was really hard too. He even had a lot of issues in kindergarten.  But since getting him inot OT, he's been doing so MUCH Better.  He is learning to control his emotions so much better and I can see such a change. He is not perfect by any means, but so much better and the hitting and kicking and hair pulling have really stopped thank goodness. LIfe was really hard during those times. Some days I would drop him off to school and then just cry.  He would have so much aggression.  I found spanking increased the aggression, so for that reason I don't spank anymore.

I was getting a lot of calls too from teh principal and them wanting me to pick him up early.  I am lucky I was able to keep my job during that period of time.  

I would suggest looking at getting your child an OT evaluation.  I took my son to therapy, but in the long run, really wasn't helpful.  The lady was convinced he had adhd and then another said bipolar.  The first psychologist did mention he was "unregulated", which was so true, but hewasn't putting it together with a sensory piece either.  My son had a lot of issues with sensory modulation.   He would be fine one minute and the next not so good.

I still find myself nervous about it all. Iv'e found being a mom to be really stressful even when he was little, but I think a lot of this is from teh sensory issues. My son was late to talk (after age 3) as well.  We have found out through OT, he has a lot more definiciencies in his development, so it's helped me a lot to know that and to know I was not crazy in feeling overwhelmed with him.  

He's six now.  He's been in OT since the end of May.  

You could also talk to ta child psychiatrist as well about it.  Read the book, "the out of sync child" or "sensational child", etc.  There are other good ones.  Do this before going onto powerful drugs like Abilify.  I know they help kids, but I aslo feel like they are covering up problems that we need to find a root cause for.  My psychiatrist did not want to prescribe any medications for my son and he suggested teh OT, but he said also to give it time, at least four months to see if it helped.

A lot of therapists do not truly understand the sensory piece so for that reason I did not find them to be that helpful, the ones I went to wanted to put on a dx like ADHD or bipolar, etc.  Sensory issues can very easily mimic bipolar nad ADHD.

Good luck and keep searching, DOn't give up and if something doesn't seem right then keep searching...... You are the only one who can fight for your child!!
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Avatar_f_tn
So glad u have found something that is working for your child. I think you make some very valid points. It is very common for psychiatrists to try and medicinally treat patients to help lead them to a diagnosis. They start giving prescriptions to treat symptoms that may be common to say, ADHD or bipolar, and if the medicine seems to work, they feel they've made the correct diagnosis. The problem with that approach is definitely the masking effects some of those meds may have on other symptoms that may be directive to a more accurate diagnosis. And, as you pointed out, many of these illnesses/disorders have overlapping symptoms. It would be the same as treating someone w Malaria using a strong prescription of ibuprofen because the symptos included body aches and fever and diagnosing them with the common flu. The body aches and fever may lessen, but that does not mean the diagnosis was correct or the treatment appropriate.

That's why I can't stress enough to parents to do your own research. If something doesnt seem to fit or you're noticing additional symptoms to that of the diagnosis, insist that the doctor go back to the drawing board. For benjimom, if they tried to diagnose your child w bipolar, the sirens were probably blaring in your head that it had to be something more. Bipolar doesn't tend to include sensory problems or develomental delays. It is defintely much more of a mood disorder, with emotional and behavioral problems.

Parents, obviously I'm a big believer in medication, since I've been taking medication since my early teens to control my bipolar manic episode w depression and idiopathic hypersomnia. I simply wouldn't b such a high functioning mother w a career w/o my psychiatrist, the medications and family support system. However, I strongly urge you to take notes at the psychiatrist visit on the diagnosis and treatment suggested. Then research thoroughly to see if your child fits this description. If not, write down the ways you feel your child doesn't fit under this diagnosis and any additional information you can provide about their disorder. Call the doctor back and ask him/her to go back to the drawing  board and figure out any other possibilities! The more info u provide the doctor, the better diagnosis they can make. When a possible diagnosis is reached, ask the doctor and reasearch all alternative therapies to medications. Try those first, and use the medication as the 2nd option. Be patient if there are some side effects, such as grogginess, give the doctor time to make adjustments to the meds, to best suit your child.

Good luck and god bless!
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Avatar_f_tn
From what I understand, Bipolar is a controversial diagnosis in young children, basically unheard of until about the 1990s, I did read that their symptoms tend to be worse than those diagnosed in adulthood.  They tend to be more violent, etc.   I think with bipolar medication isa  MUST.

But I have read of cases of children who were dx with bipolar and had sensory issues, etc.  Also a lot of kids with ADHD have sensory issues.

For a five year old, I'v ebeen told that is too young for an ODD dx.

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Avatar_f_tn
hello, its been some time sense you have posted your comment about your then five year old son. how is he doing now. i just read your article and if you have already figured out his problem then i am very pleased to hear such and i wish you the best. but if not, hopefully it has not gotten any worse.
I am now 20 a very functioning,happy and healthly citizen. when i was five i had very bad episodes like the ones you've discribed. id black out to say the least and act out violently, mostly over very little things. when in kindergarten i tried to strangle a young boy; and for a very long time i denied such accusations because i did not remember actually doing it. this continued for a long time like the littlest thing could set me off in a big way. id lash out at my mother and sister, or whoever i could. ive grown now and have came to terms with my issues. now i do understand there can be many reasons for his behavior some more serious mental disorders like bipolar. others could be settled with anger managment classes. but if it helps, my problems where because i had surpressed memories. And when a child has such it can and will serverly altire his/her personality. maybe if this way has still contiued try to ask him about his dreams. if he has any reacurring dreams pay close attention to them. in particular if he dreams of any physical altercations that means he struggling with something. i know me as well as some others i have talkd to who have shared a dream where you punching something but nothing is happing. means your fighting a bad experience or an alter ego (bad side.) if this is the case at least you have something to work with. And it can be settled if he talks about what is troubling him.
i hope ive helped and not disturbed you any more then nessisary. please take care my best wishes. And i promise you ma'am no matter what his issues actually are i know he will be blessed.  
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Avatar_m_tn
Our son is 10 and he is a spitting image of everything you wrote in your initial description of your 5 year old. It was like I had sat down and wrote it. Our son has been diagnosed with ADHD (with paranoia and aniexty) and Oppositional Defiant Disorder.......hes been on meds that made him 65 lbs in 3 months....resulting in him now being 10 years old and weighing 180 lbs...he is 5 ft 3 ..and built like a brick sh*thouse. When he becomes violent, I pity whoever is on the receiving end. I wish I had some ideas for you to try, but we are also at our whits end. We have seen pediatricians....doctor after doctor......specialists....neurosurgeons.....mental health doctors....the list goes on and on ..and all they want to do is pump him full of meds that do jack crap. I am sick of putting him on meds.

He has NO issues at school and actually tests 2 years above his grade level. He is in advance everything. He started grade 5 this year and the teacher loves him, she says he is very acedemically gifted.

If You EVER find out anything that helps your son, please pass it along, and i will do the same.
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Thank God I thought I was alone My boy is 5 as well I have 2 older siblings for him and he to is a wonderful wonderful little boy but now that he is in school I am getting complaints about his Hands on approach to the other kids at school, he has been so good, up till school started he does not hurt or take any thing out on us, his older brother wrestles with him and I get so Angry cause I know that this is a part of why he does what he does I ask my older son to stop, some times I beg for the little one needs to be able to go to school and now here I am with this I can not have this to be happening, first it is wrong to be hands on, and second I cant have my baby Ostracism by the Parents and Kids at the School I could careless if I have friends but he needs to be invited to birthday parties games sleep overs to have that Kid experience, So my Question is this How do I get my Older two to understand its not fair to not give the Little one the same chance I gave them :o(

Broken Hearts
Mommy of 3    
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oh I should add there is nothing medically wrong with any of my 3, I did the OMG my so I tested then all when they were close to the age of 5 there good great amazing kids they just pick on the little one :o(
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Avatar_m_tn
   Its a learned behavior probably (good old older brothers) and it will take a while to unlearn it.  This may help.  neat set of books meant to be read to the chlld.    Good starting one is "Hands are not for Hitting,'  found here
    http://www.amazon.com/Hands-Hitting-Ages-Best-Behavior/dp/1575420775
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my 5 yr old twins have been taking turns on there rage outburst it started when  they started preschool one of them would kick off his shoes when i would take him to class scream at the top of his lungs and say all these nasty words the principal would sometimes meet me at the front door because it seemed to be worse when i would walk him all the way in and this year as they started kinder the other twin the calmer one seems to lash out at his brother throwing things at him screaming kicking and these usually last about and hour at times i just want to cry i don't  know what causes him to act this way i try talking to him but that doesn't work taking things away none of it works i recently started taking him to his room when he goes on one of his episodes and hold him he screams and squirms and and kicks but it seems to calm him faster and he usually falls asleep and wakes up like if nothing happened my husband and i are concerned because he's causing harm not to himself but to his twin and i don't know what to do anymore i need help............
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Avatar_m_tn
I'm right behind you with my son. My guy gets set off for not getting his way, so we know what causes it. Problem is trying to teach him properly and control it. Easier said than done.  I would love to know what you learn! I'm praying for my boy and I will pray for yours too!
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Avatar_m_tn
Did you ever stop to think that maybe it's their age?  There are so many (including myself) who have 5 year olds with anger issue. They are egocentric at this age and believe life is all about them.  They are showing more independence but are still not old enough to do most things. Having said all this I am at my wits end with my son!!!
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OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGG I would so love to talk to you.  My daughter is the same way and we have been dealing with is since she was 1 and she is now 10 and currently at the mental hospital for her fourth stay now.  I'm at my wits end.  Please get in contact with me.  My personal email address is  tiya_shields***@****
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omg you just described my son I am sure he is bi polar but can't get any one to listen they say he has adhd and odd.  His uncle was diagnsosed with bi polar then told na it's just anger.  I think they both r bi polar what do I do???????
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Avatar_m_tn
   Well, you need to find out if he is bipolar or not since the treatments are very different.
  This is a list of the differences between ADHD and Bipolar because they are very similar:



1. Destructiveness may be seen in both disorders but differs in origin. Children who are ADHD often break things carelessly while playing (“non-angry destructiveness”), whereas the major destructiveness of children who are bipolar is not a result of carelessness but tends to occur in anger. Children who are bipolar may exhibit severe temper tantrums during which they release manic quantities of physical and emotional energy, sometimes with violence and physical property destruction. They may even exhibit openly sadistic impulses.
2. The duration and intensity of physical outbursts and temper tantrums differs in the two disorders. Children who are ADHD usually calm down in twenty to thirty minutes, whereas children who are bipolar may continue to feel and act angry for up to four hours.
3. The degree of “regression” during angry episodes is typically more severe for children who are bipolar. It is rare to see an angry child who is ADHD display disorganized thinking, language, and body position, all of which may be seen in angry bipolar children during a tantrum. Children who are bipolar may also lose memory of the tantrum.
4. The “trigger” for temper tantrums is also different. Children who have ADHD are typically triggered by sensory and emotional over stimulation, whereas children who have bipolar disorder typically react to limit-setting, such as a parental “no.”
5. Disturbances during sleep in children with bipolar disorder include severe nightmares or night terrors often with themes of explicit gore and bodily mutilation.
6. Children who are bipolar often show giftedness in certain cognitive functions, especially verbal and artistic skills (perhaps with verbal precocity and punning by age two to three years).
7. The misbehavior in children with ADHD is often accidental and usually caused by oblivious inattention, whereas children with bipolar disorders intentionally provoke or misbehave. Some bipolar children are described as “the bully on the playground.”
8. The child with ADHD may engage in behavior that can lead to harmful consequences without being aware of the danger, whereas the child with bipolar disorder is risk seeking.
9. Bipolar children tend to have a strong early sexual interest and behavior.
10. Children with ADHD usually do not exhibit psychotic symptoms or reveal a loss of contact with reality, whereas children with bipolar disorder may exhibit gross distortions in the perception of reality or in the interpretation of emotional events.
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i am having the same issue with my 5 year old son he screams and hollers and hits his siblings I am on the verge of pulling my hair out he sees a doctor for his anger and come to find out he has ADHD and a learning disability but it is still hard to deal with him when he gets angry I punish him every time he does wrong but he still acts out and don't care if you spank him or put him in timeout maybe somebody can tell me what I can do thanks
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Avatar_m_tn
     A child with ADHD is difficult to deal with.  I know as I am also the CL on the ADHD forum, and I have seen many posts like yours.  The problem is that a child with ADHD does have to be treated differently than a child without ADHD.  And until you can understand how ADHD effects the child and what the child is going though, its pretty hard to change his behavior.
    A couple of good resources for you as it would take me pages to explain what to do. The book I recommend the most is,  "The ADD/ ADHD Answer book," by Susan Ashley.  Its about $10 on Amazon.  It will be worth every penny you spend.
    I would also check out this web site and its many ideas for working with an ADHD child.  http://www.additudemag.com/search/keyword/ADHD%20and%20Discipline.html
    Do realize that a child with ADHD acts without thinking, they have no choice (unless they are on meds, which can help with impulsive behaviors) in their actions at this age.  Thus to punish him for everything is not good either for him or you.  There are some things you just have to overlook.  There are a lot of things that you have to head off before they happen.  That is why all experts say that having a rigid schedule for the child is very important.
   So get the book I mentioned.  Check out all the ideas on the web site and feel free to ask any additional questions here http://www.medhelp.org/forums/ADD---ADHD/show/175  ; where I will definitely see your post.  Best wishes.
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Avatar_m_tn
I would love to know what worked for you. I am struggling in similar ways with my 5.5 year old. My email is ***@****
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Avatar_m_tn
   Unfortunately Natta's post was over 4 years ago and I doubt that she will respond.  There are many other good ideas above if you take the time to read them.  Or, you might want to start your own post and give some specific areas that you need help with and we will see what we can suggest.  Best wishes.
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Avatar_n_tn
Afer ruling out medical or psicological problems  what has work for us is making him write a page " the unwanted behavior" he does not like to write and he loves electronics (tv,ds,Wi ,Computer) so what worked for us is being as calm as we can be(hard but we have mastered it) take the notebook out and tell him until i dont see this page finish you can not have electronics and walk away , we decided to do this because it was getting to be imposible to have him do time out since we will have to chase him etc..and could get phisical in terms of holding him to stay in time out and I find out it only scalate the situation , at the beginning he always tell me he does not care ,I have a place were I have tv remotes and electronics that he can not get to them,I just go on with what I am doing and eventually he gets tired and starts writing, it takes time but eventually he gets that it is easier to listen to mommy than to write a page, we use it outside, he just gets to write when we get home, no screaming ,just one warning, usually goes "you stop ____________ or you are writing a sentence when we get home" he does not stop we follow up, even if he forgot all about when we got home,he still has to do it before any electronics when he gets home,
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Avatar_m_tn
  I am guessing that your son is not 5?
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I just read this article...it sounds like you have had my 5year old in your home and are explaining it perfectly! I havent even read the comments yet, I just had to tell you that I am in the EXACT same situation! He yells, throws stuff, breaks things, tells me (and the family) that he hates me and he wants to live somewhere else, etc. He hates his life, he TRULY believes that he is the only one that gets in trouble. I have a six year old as well, and even when they are both in trouble my five year old screams "WHY AM I THE ONLY ONE IN TROUBLE??!!!" I dont know what to do... and he cries after his anger out bursts and it makes me feel like he cant control it so i hug him and hold him, and that makes my husband mad because its me babying him for doing something wrong. I'm going to read the comments now, hopefully get helpful hints. I hope you found helpful hints, because I understand what you're going through. Thank God my son hasnt acted out at school, AT ALL! Teachers describe a kid I swear I havent seen in a long time. He wasnt always this angry.. he was always so lovable (always called him my cuddle buddy) but things have changed!
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Avatar_m_tn
   Do you also happen to have a younger child in the house?
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Avatar_m_tn
My Granddaughter has all these problems talked about. My daughter is ready to give up and even asked me to take the granddaughter. I don't think that this is the answer. Please help us.
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