Giddy laughter (bipolar?)

[Stellatum]

I'm trying to help my friend, whose children's behavior is very, very difficult to manage. She has five boys, ages 4, 4, 3, 2, and 7 months. The oldest two are identical twins. The children are in constant motion. They climb and throw and hit and bite. They never respond to the simplest request, so everything's a big struggle. They often run off in different directions, which means they can't be taken anywhere without at least two adults to manage them.

What I find most unusual and disturbing is a state they often get into in which they laugh in a giddy, almost maniacal way--it sounds very unnatural to me, almost spooky. Once they get started doing this, they can't be stopped. They just continue to laugh hysterically while running around and crashing into things. They almost never cry, for any reason.

This is, by the way, a stable and intact family, mother and father (married to each other) living with them, mother doesn't work outside the home. They are attentive and loving parents, though understandably stressed out. There are severe mood disorders on both sides of the family.

Here's my question: I have recently read that giddy laughing can be a symptom of bipolar disorder. I want to know how strong an indicator of that disorder it is. In other words, is this something that kids who _don't_ have bipolar disorder might also do--if they had some other disorder, like severe ADHD, for example? Or does it strongly suggest bipolar? Also, if my friend could get a diagnosis for them, would there be programs to help her? She desperately needs (but can't afford) full-time helpers. Thanks.

[RockRose]

I agree with tg.  This is too many kids too close together for one person to handle.  On the other hand,  a preschool teacher who is good at it can manage a class of 12 preschoolers with very few difficulties.  

Sounds like she needs serious parenting education.  

Also,  it sounds to me like the maniacal laughter is a habit,  and something they do to be weird and wild.  I've seen kids who lie on the floor,  on their backs and do this - and it sounds really really odd,  adults never do this,  it's something only kids can do.

It's a curiosity,  why when she had a couple very difficult kids she kept deciding to have more when the first ones were still babies.  Their road,  as parents,  will be very hard but I suspect the kids in the end will turn out normally.

[tg67]

I'm not an expert, but I think the kids could be suffering from a lot of problems besides being bipolar.  How much sleep do they get every night?   The behaviors you describe are frequently symptoms of exhaustion and/or a lack of limits.  They could also be symptoms of ADHD.  And "normal" kids can be pretty darn weird (spend some time in an elementary school - it's quite amazing).

She has chosen a very difficult path by having so many kids so close together- one with which  I would have a great deal of difficulty navigating.  Does she have any family or close friends that could help her?  Could she put the kids part time in day care or preschool?  

Here is my opinion-  she needs to take good care of herself and take breaks from the kids.  Also I would suggest that she impose a schedule on the kids.  She might think of herself almost as running a day care - 7am up, dressed, breakfast.  7:30am dishes to the sink, wash face and hands, brush teeth. 7:45am  craft time (play dough, bubbles, coloring....)  8:30 am nature walk in pairs.  9:15 snack and story.  Etc.  Have clear-cut rules and consequences:  Blues Clues/video/etc.  if the kids behave well on the walk.    Time out bench if a kid doesn't listen to her.  It is really on her shoulders to show she means business.  The kids probably will not be easier to control later, but now, if she needs to, she can still pick them up and remove them from a situation.  It will be exhausting at first, but over time as the kids learn the rules they should become comfortable with them and much easier to manage.

In our area there are many community activities that the kids can go to, as well as early-childhood family education classes that would be both a respite from mothering as well as a chance to socialize and gather ideas for help with the children.  I hope if she is not in these but has access to them, she takes advantage of them.  The teachers that care for the chidren would also be a good source of feedback on their behavior.

She should eat healthfully and get a good night's sleep as much as possible to keep her strength up.

Best of luck to her.