Just Typical Tantrums?

[MerrittMom]

I am concerned about my 4 year old daughter who has recently been having "tantrums" that seem to be getting worse.  She is stubborn by nature, but is really becoming defiant.  I am hoping this is a stage, but need to know if I need to seek advice from our doctor.  Here is an example of today's tantrum:  When I last spoke to her earlier in the day, she was talkative - and normal after her morning at preschool - seemed quite happy.  My mother watches her after school and said she ate well and played quietly the rest of the day.  When I arrived to pick her up, she would not talk to me.  She was playing with scissors, cutting paper.  I tried several times to engage her in a conversation.  She said nothing.  I said she would have to put her stuff away and she started screaming "no" several times.  I got up to get the scissors and she got really angry - pulling away and screaming loudly and then crying.  She ran away, but I picked her up and said we were going home and proceeded to put her coat on while she was kicking and screaming.  No matter what you said to her she could not stop crying.  My mom tried talking to her, but that did not help.  I told her to stop trying to reason with her - that just seemed to keep her going.  I put her in the car, and then within a couple of minutes she was able to calm down and within 5 minutes she fell asleep.  She did not have a nap in the p.m., but she rarely takes an afternoon nap anymore.  She had 11 hours of sleep last night, so I really don't think she was overtired.  She has had tantrums in the past - but they seem to be happening more frequently.  My mom did say that she was very reluctant to go in the preschool room since she's been on winter break for the past 2 weeks - but when I talked to her after class - she seemed quite happy telling me about her friends and what she did at school.  My mom says this behavior is not "normal" and that I should talk to my doctor.  It does bother me that these episodes are becoming more frequent.  Her other tantrums have been pretty much the same - a few times in the past she has pulled her own hair or tried to scratch herself which was pretty awful to watch.  She has always been a stubborn child (inherited from me) and she is really wanting to do things on her own - I just can't figure out what's triggering this behavior - and the best way to handle it.  Any help would be appreciated!!

[jdtm]

Your posting reminds me of our granddaughter.  She behaved fine at school but was aggressive and throwing tantrums at home.  School was just too stressful for such a little girl.  Her parents removed her from nursery school - the "bad" behaviour quickly disappeared.  

I really believe that most children under the age of six are not ready to be "separated" from their parents for such long periods of time.  By the way, your daughter's tantrums, stubbornness, displaying defiance, crying often, exhaustion (from the stress - our granddaughter would fall asleep often while returning home from school), and self-mutilation are all behaviours common to children suffering from anxiety.  This is not to say that your daughter has an anxiety disorder, but I do feel she is very stressed out from a situation that she is not mature enough to handle.  Is there another alternative to preschool?  Even half days would be better than whole days.  Could she spend more time with her grandmother?  After all, she is only a little girl.

[savik]

I agree with jdtm about children not be separated from their parents for long periods of time.  If you have family members who could help that would be better because she could make a family bond with them.

[chigirl29]

My daughter did the scratching thing and she had bad eczema so it made things worse.  She is having trouble sleeping tonight so I have been going in to check on her.  She is picking at the corner of her lip in her sleep.  She made a sore there.  Whenever my child is stressed, she picks at herself and it is so painful to watch.  She has tantrums too, but I just try to hug and calm her.  Sometimes that helps so much.  
I really don't like the idea of school breaks because they are so long and children get off their routine. She may need time to readjust.  She is getting older and they do test you as they get older.  I agree with jdtm about how much time she spends at school.  Maybe it would help if your mother could watch her more.  I used to stay with my aunt and she taught me how to make jewelry.  I still have those memories.

[MerrittMom]

My daughter only attends preschool 2 mornings a week (3 hour sessions) and is with her grandmother the rest of the time while I work.  She hasn't had the opportunity to play with other children, so I wanted her to get some exposure to a classroom setting and give her a chance to learn how to interact with others before beginning kindergarten next year.  Prior to the break, so loved preschool - talked all the time about her friends and what they did that day.  I guess she was a little stressed after having 2 weeks off.  Maybe it will just take a little time to get back to our normal routine.  I just don't know what to do when she gets like this because it seems no matter what I do - it just keeps going.  If it keeps up, I will call her doctor.  I just feel so helpless at times - and I really am worried about her scratching herself or pulling her own hair - that's pretty scary behavior.

Thanks for your comments.  It is always good to get other perspectives and thoughts - makes me realize how tramatic these things can be for her - and that I need to find a way to handle these situations better.

[jdtm]

Thanks for your reply.  By the way, our youngest granddaughter was only in nursery school one morning per week and that was too much for her.  Since our eldest granddaughter (a cousin, not a sister) suffers from extreme social anxiety, we are so attuned to any signs of discomfort socially in our family.  Her parents are planning on trying nursery school again in the fall but right now she is taking swimming lessons and attends Sunday School.  There are also many cousins in the family who live nearby so she is able to get social interaction with familiar faces.

We scheduled many playdates for our eldest granddaughter in our home, her parents' home and her other relatives' homes; she attended Sunday School, church, swimming and dance classes; we took her often to McDonald's, the mall and the local park.  This over-socialization has really paid off - today (after many years) she is able to function extremely well in school and society in general.   Luckily, our youngest granddaughter is only "stressed out" in social situations where she does not have a safety person (as her mother or father).  I suspect this is where your daughter fits and I suspect your pediatrician would simply tell you that she is just "stressed out" - (he probably would say "not to worry - time will take care of this).  Sometimes there is very little we can do but understanding the situation is half of the battle.  Often physical exercise helps as jumping on a trampoline or simply running around outside.  Our eldest granddaughter also benefited from caring for a pet - she now has a cat and two fish.  In addition, we found it was not a good idea to push conversation or activities right after school; she needed time to unwind - often in front of the TV or playing with her pets.  Finally, after every long holiday, it is difficult for our eldest granddaughter to return to the routine of school - after all, she is going from a relaxed environment to a more stressful one (and this used to include Mondays).  One more thing - if your are calm and understanding, it does help your child.  Hope this helps -

[lexi26]

i also have a 4yr old girl and am kinda dealing with the same thing, at school she is the perfect angel and at home there are moments when she has these really bad tantrums, screaming so lound someone called my home believing she was being hurt, this really bothered me, i have started doing a chart with her,we started monday this week, she did very well until up to toady, but it was her just been really loud and rude towards me saying she did not like me and that she was the grown and will do anything she wanted, i did put up with this, just be strong, also children at this age still really need a nap during the day, so being tired could play a big role sometimes.my daughter is also very stubborn by nature, i was no easy child, my mother tells me i'm getting back what i did to her.

[momagain59]

Does your daughter start out with you in the morning, then Grandma's, then preschool, then Grandma's again, then home? If this is the routine, maybe it is just too many transitions for her. Is there an all day program available in your area that includes preschool?  Maybe she could attend an all day program a couple days a week and spend the other days with Grandma. Does she rule the roost at Grandma's? I know their relationship is very important but sometimes it is hard for children to go back and forth between caretakers that have very different rountines and expectations. Does she take naps on the weekends? Would Grandma consider watching another child in the same age range, maybe even from the same preschool? You are so lucky to have such a loving Grandma for your child. My children do not have any living Grandparents and I did not have an active relationship with mine. I am just trying to think of different ideas that might help your daughter.

The post from (jdtm) has many good ideas that could help your daughter.

[MerrittMom]

You raised a good question about who rules at Grandma's house - and I would say that it's my daughter most of the time.  On several occassions, I have talked to my mom about her being too lenient about certain things - behavioral issues included.  After giving it some thought, I realized that alot of her tantrums happen at Grandma's where she feels she can get away with much more.  After last week's episode, my mom and I had a long talk about changes that needed to be made - and this week has gone much better.  I know consistency is the best thing for children - so we are both making a strong effort to keep the rules the same for both houses.  I am very greatful that my daughter has such a wonderful grandma - and their bond is very strong.  I am hopeful that the changes we have made will continue to keep the trantrums away or atleast to a miminum.  

Thanks to everyone for their helpful comments and insight!