My daughter and her best friend half naked.

[Florient16]

I walked in to see why my 8 year old daughters door was closed to find her best friend with her shirt off and my daughter rubbing lotion on her back. They said they were giving each other a back massage. My husband will sometimes rub lotion on my back in the living room and my shirt gets lifted a bit but I'm never topless. It's purely nonsexual, he'll usually lotion and massage my arms, legs, and feet also. I don't feel that they were trying to hide from us from knowingly doing something "bad", they were hiding so my son's wouldn't see them.
I didn't say anything except "don't make a mess with the lotion". I went back in after they went to sleep and found them both shirtless and asleep.
Is this normal and something innocent (which is my feeling) or something we should discourage (my husbands thoughts)?

[Sara_MHModerator]

Hi there.  We hope the original poster was able to feel supported in her question and got the answers and advice she needed.  As this is an older thread, we are now going to close it.  thank you

***  thread closed ***

[bb7493]

While probably not a problem, it may be time to have a conversation with your daughter about what is and is not appropriate as far as touching others. It might also be time for your husband to stop applying lotion to you in view of your children. Massage is a rather intimate type of touch that can be experienced as arousing. It is probably best that she have sufficient time to "forget" about your husband's massage before getting to the point that she might find it arousing to her.

[Evilsprout]

My wife ran a daycare at home for 14 years and I've seen everything. One day I came home from work and I saw all the boys in the daycare with underwear on there heads and carrying a purses some type of role reversal orchestrated by all the little girls. This was 22yrs ago they are all grown up with girlfriends.
And yes this is totally innocent. Please leave them alone and let them be children. that's how they learn thru play. This is how they learn from each other. I used to be that paranoid dad always thinking there was some ulterior motive but there is not they're just children.

[Guru09]

This is exactly what my friend & I did when we were 10 at night before bed! Yes it is completely 100% innocent I assure you. I can gaurentee you from first hand experience, they are simply doing it because it feels good!
Remember children haven't yet taken on all of societies hang ups yet as we have, so be proud of your little girl feeling confident enough to explore with something completely natural & human. :)

[Joywolf]

You have to set your limits tell them they can still do this but just by pulling the shirt up in the back this is inocent but can lead to problems in the future

[Knobnoster]

It's innocent. Great reaching out for answers. Some kids will explore eventually, but their reaction is usually where your answer is. If they reacted guilty, then that's when you sit down and let them know, do not close this door, and a grownup should always be here from now on when company is here. Supervised until they get it's not ok.

[Melissa2064]

Maybe they didn't want the lotion to be rubbed off by the shirts.

[shimra]

Dear Florient,

This sounds like something totally innocent and caring, not something to worry about at all I would say. It is healthy to give each other physical care if both consent and it is pleasurable. The back is also a non erogenous zone. So no worries.
Love Shimra

[dreamcatcher_diva83]

Not true about the back. Have you never had someone kiss your back while making love? But anyway, the girls are innocent, they haven't started thinking about sex yet.

[maqqiemoo]

It's weird to think about, but as someone who can remember being that age, but girls are comepletely fine being nude around each other at that age. It's not sexual (they were rubbing each others backs, and you can't get someones entire back without taking their shirt off.) it's just kids being the naive little weirdos they are.

Plus I'm pretty I remember being flat chested, (or just starting getting breasts) and since theyre used to men being casually shirtless and it not being a big deal, they probably didnt think much of it.

[maqqiemoo]

*flat chested at that age. sorry.

[emiliagolden35]

From a parent of 2 children one whom is a girl, this sounds totally innocent. Don't think too much about it, they are friends and aren't doing anything sexual. As far as them falling asleep, maybe they got relaxed after the lotion and massage and simply fell asleep. Unless you notice other behavior such as putting lotion in their genital area, I dint think you have anything to worry about. Simply keep an eye on them when they are together, even sit outside the bedroom door and listen to what they talk about if you're unsure of the situation. However my daughter used to do this with her 2 best friends and I even listened to what they were talking about, it was nothing but little girls being exactly that, just little girls.

[Svotty]

I agree, my 10 year old daughter and her girl friend same age, love to massage, shower together, apply lotion each other bodies, sleeping together, cuddling and even kiss sometimes on the lips . they obviously will explore as they are getting older ..I will continue to monitor their relationship..

[Daisy_Mariposa]

I agree with SammieJFox82

Furthermore, the girls  are 8 years old; they were rubbing lotion into each other's back (not below the belt level? just for my understanding)
So do you usually rub sunscreen among friends if at the pool or beach? because if e.g. a group of teenagers goes to the beach they also might need to put on sunscreen and help their friends in order to avoid a sunburn...
I would not see a problem with that and if they were doing a childs game which involved being probably the physic therapist and the patient, what is there to worry about? They even see it within your family, and probably also on TV (?) It is nothing harmful.
Doctors don't even ban or prohibit so called doctor's and nurse's games as long as nothing is inserted into the body and nobody is injured or forced to do something they don't want to; because they say it was a normal step of the children's development and it would do more harm to forbid them doing it, or they would continue secretly which is not recommended, eihter.
Probably your husband had a more conservative upbringing, but you also say his family is bathing together ...? then again I don't understand why he sees a problem with the lotion / shirts...
Furthermore, sleeping topless maybe it was too warm and they didn't want to have their shirts on.
As long as they don't rub lotion in public, except sunscreen, I would not think of it as a problem, maybe let her know that those are private things so she doesnt talk about it in public (?) if this bothers you...

[squeekytoes]

Personally I dont think its a big deal. But the other girl is not family. If you're daughter came home and casually told you about it how would you feel? Would the other girls parents feel the same way? Should probably stop them from doing it. You dont want your daughter to be labeled a sexual predator nor lose her friend over something purely innocent

[MamaCrazyTrain]

Regardless of your feelings about whether it's right or wrong or sexualized or non, it's a great opportunity to talk about peer pressure, and how to say no to things that make you feel "icky", as well as respecting the same from others. I feel like no lesson should be more important right now than the fact that her body is HERS, and no one, not a (male or female) friend, relative, teacher, should ever touch her or ask her to do anything she is uncomfortable with, & it's ok to say so very clearly.   My 8 year old confessed last year that she & her friend had video taped each other on her phone. Inside I flipped out, but I calmly told her that wasn't ok, and that I could tell she knew it wasn't ok & what to do in the future if anyone suggested such activities. The video was mostly the other little girl chasing mine around saying "Show me your butt!" I deleted it for her & talked about it with her about it briefly, here and there, over the next few weeks. I wanted to answer questions after she's had time to process & make sure she knew it was ok to revisit such discussions at any time. Also, the friendship seems to have faded & they don't attend the same school so...I don't go out of my way to maintain any contact.  I remember the back scratching thing with friends all the way up to 15, it wasn't ever sexualized.  And when I experienced a year long intensely serious illness, I had many friends who came to the hospital& messages my feet, rubbed my skinny legs when I was freezing, held my hand, gave gentle hugs, or sat with me in a blanket. It was an immense comfort & I'm grateful for my female friends always. I hope my daughter is lucky enough to have the same.

[Avilina]

8 year olds almost never have breasts only nipples so I don't understand at all what is so worrisome. Also even if they were starting to have sexual feelings for each other there is nothing wrong with that other than making certain they have the sex talk. Anyway back on topic I wore only slips around my house until I reached the age of 11. I'd get home from school and would immediately get into a slip usually with my nipples not being covered because I was a little kid. My husband's little sister got completely naked when she got home from school at age 8 then around age 9 she stopped but she's never liked wearing much clothing. She is 15 now and she wears semishort skirts everyday even in the winter because she doesn't like the feeling of pants and she feels too hot wearing them. I'm going off topic. Point is at the age of 8 it is almost certainly not sexual and I would have said nothing about it. Other than to make sure that neither of them pressured the other to go topless.

[Florient16]

Thanks everyone. The girls really did not seem jumpy or like they were hiding anything. It really did seem innocent. But I went ahead and spoke with the other girls mom and she said it was quite common to find her 8 and 6 year old daughters sleeping topless or completely nude. She's going to talk to her about what families find appropriate and what friends find appropriate. I'm  having the same talk with mine. I've told her it's okay to show love and attention but...My biggest concern about how her mom would react was the same worry she had.

[SammieJFox82]

Hi Florient16,  As one mother to another- and having some experience with this,
I want you to know that this is actually more common than most think or would like to admit, and normal curiosity
While you should talk to your daughter- Please don't let it bother you as much as other people might want you to be bothered by it.
When I was about the same age as your daughter, I had a friend that suggested we play 'house' and she touched me and I touched her- it sounds creepy yes- but I actually had no idea what sex was, no idea boys and girls even kissed at that time  (my parents divorced when i was very little, and i never remember seeing  my mother with anyone before so i had no clue about ralationships at all), and i really didnt know what we were touching- but I remember my mom asking me what were we doing with the door closed, and I remember lying and saying we were jumping on the bed.
I did feel like I was doing something wrong after a couple times & I liked playing with Barbie's much more and on my own I decided to not go to her house anymore (she seemed way more interested in doing that than I was).
Also,Another little girl in the neighborhood who was my friend wanted to try the same thing and was a little pushy about it.
I am a 38 year old heterosexual women, always have been heterosexual. I have a mother who was very much not involved and NEVER spoke to me about anything.
My advice to you is simply have a sensitive mother-daughter talk with her, she's curious, and also it is VERY important to reevaluate her friendship with the other girl.
I am speaking from experience, my mother was not involved at all, she did not want to bother with me,but luckily I was a very smart child, & i felt something was wrong at this girls home, i was simply curious, but she seemed to like it to much, & i didnt want to loose a friend, but as I said- I felt something was not right at her home.
  You and your husband are both right, it is something you should discourage , what starts out innocent can lead to things not so innocent if not addressed.
  Best wishes

[specialmom]

Rockrose, that's what I think is so great about med help--  people can get different perspectives and opinions.  :>)  

I scratch my son's backs.  They like it.  Yes, I'd think it was weird if they were doing it with their friends.  I'd redirect on that one.  I'd redirect on the lotion rubbing too.  It's just not really socially acceptable in my opinion.  You can tell your daughter that you and your husband do the lotion thing, you and she do the lotion thing and it's nice.  But it's really for family only and she shouldn't do it with her friends.  That's what I would do anyway.

I'm not trying to make it sexual if that is what you are thinking.  I just don't think it's appropriate child play.

And as a mom, I'd be a little concerned if it was going on at someone else's house if reported back to me by my child.  Just being honest.

As I mentioned, I have boys.   I'm not trying to make the topless thing sexual---  but I do think that on a sleepover, kiddos should wear their pj's.  I never slept topless--  I'm a girl that LOVED my jammies.  (still do).  8 is young but . . .  lots of kids start going through puberty at 10-11.  She's right around the corner and isn't a toddler anymore.  

So, with elementary school kids currently and in the climate of parenting we live in today, I'd say that I would have a discussion with your daughter that lotion rub downs are for family and we need to have a shirt and bottoms on when we have a sleep over.  

good luck

[Florient16]

I'm not worried about her as much as other people's reactions. I would hate for her to get teased or taken wrong by another kid or their parent. I guess I just need to explain that this is a family thing, somehow without making her feel like she's done something wrong.  
My other concern is the sleeping topless. I grew up with brothers and mostly male friends. I was wondering if this was normal for girls? When I've helped her learn to put on a bra or change into her dance costumes in front of other girls, I've always said, "It's okay, we're all girls and we all have the same body parts.".

I'm just not sure if this is normal and I don't want to do or say the wrong thing. If I shouldn't worry, great! If I should say something, what?

[Cajun_Belle]

I don't think you have anything to worry about. Little girls do this all the time. Lotion, sun tan oil, washing each others' backs, etc. If you don't make a big deal of it, neither will they. Good luck and don't stress. She'll be just fine.

[RockRose]

So Florient,  with your history of putting lotion on your daughters back,  and her putting lotion on your back,  why are you concerned that she learned this behavior from you and she is now doing it with a friend?

[Florient16]

We have a 19 and 12 year old son who we make sure are not in the room. My daughter and I put lotion on each other's backs and she will actually initiate. My husband is from another country and they are very family oriented and they will bath and sleep together (sleep) all ages, genders. I remember going in to my mother bathing and washing her back for her and her for me, even into my teenage years. It was an expression of caring and serving each other in love.
My shirt doesn't even go high enough for my bra straps to show.
My main concern is that the other child initiated the sleeping shirtless and I guess I should have a chit chat with her mom about her feelings.

[RockRose]

I'm sorry,  I'm going to have to disagree with SpecialMom,  which I almost never do.  

Is your husband your daughter's father?  He apparently massages you in the family living room in full view of the children,  and you have to lift your shirt for this. He also massages your arms,  legs and feet in full view of the children.  

Honestly, it seems no wonder your daughter thinks this is appropriate behavior.  

[specialmom]

Hi.  No, not normal.  I would not allow this.  While innocent (most likely)--  it's still not appropriate and we as parents set limits.  Girls rubbing lotion onto each other's backs is something you can easily say "nope, we're not doing that.  How about you do X" with more appropriate activities.

Think about it . . .   when would this ever be something two friends think of doing with each other?  Do you have a girlfriend over and offer to rub lotion into her back?  Does your husband watch football massaging lotion into his buddies back?  It may be something that is a loving gesture between partners or something we do for a family member, but friends really don't do things like that . . .  Right?  So, same goes for your daughter even though she's just 8.  

good luck