Over diagnosing

[SeriousSam]

Is anybody else sick of all the d@mn fad disorders people saddle their kids with?

Here is a tip that makes almost all disorders disappear.  First of all do not let a school teacher diagnose your child, in most case they have the "minimum training" to speak the language of being a teacher and are not really required to be any smarter than anyone else, nor do they posess any other quality that makes them more special than anyone else.   It really is just a job that and most teachers unions have fought against limits on tenure and skill competency testing - That by itself should say a lot.

Choose doctors who do not believe in overmedicating.  For behavioral problems go to the RIGHT specialist a psychologist instead of a GP.

If you have a life too busy for a pet, DO NOT have kids. think about it.  Your kids deserve and require more time from you than a puppy does.

Never ask what your kids will add to your life, but rather what you can add to you kids life.  Just some thoughts

[megochick101]

haha, I've thought about it, but then when I've actually tried to write a book previously I end up drawing a blank haha

[margypops]

there you go you are a closet Author ..better get writing ...

[megochick101]

lol thanks margypops..i always end up writing novels.. I can't seem to help it lol

[margypops]

Well I enjpoyed your 'novel' and it made a lot of good sense to me..

[megochick101]

Good God, I just realized how much i had actually written. Sorry again for the novel haha

[megochick101]

I agree with both of you.

I have seen some horrible teachers out there(some when i was in school) that wouldn't give their students the time of day. For example, one of my teachers actually kept after school office hours to "help" students who were having trouble in his class. One day after school(this was in my senior year i should mention) I didn't really understand the lesson we had that day so i went into the classroom and asked my teacher if there were some books or anything else he could point me too so i could get a better understanding of the subject. I was the only one there and everything and this is what he said to me(i don't think I'll ever forget as it was horrible IMO), but he said "I explained it all in class, if you didn't understand it the first time, what makes you think you have the brains to understand it now?" I was shocked and speechless and very insulted. I didn't even ask if he could explain it again, I asked if there were books or anything else out there that would help me understand it better and that was the answer I got. That man should never have been a teacher. He couldn't even take the time to help a student who actually liked the class and wanted help learning MORE about a subject in order to get the entire picture. Yes, he was actually a brilliant man and knew his subject well but teaching requires an extra quality where the person actually WANTS to teach others and actually WANTS to help others!

On the other hand, I've also come in contact with excellent teachers who actually go the extra mile to help their students in any way they can. Some who actually take the time to learn more about each child in their class, so that they can better teach the class as a whole.

As to children using drugs. I do not approve of it unless it is an absolute last resort. My best friends brother was on Ritalin from the age of 6, because he was very hyper active and would not sit still in the classroom at all. I'm not sure what "disease" the docs diagnosed him with but whatever it was he used ritalin up until he was about 10. That was the first thing the doctor went to, they didn't even recommend therapy or anything to help him cope with it. Then he actually stopped taking it, without his mother knowing, and he was perfectly fine. He was without Ritalin for 3 months before anyone else found out(except for me and his sister who were 2 years older than him) and he was doing fine in school and his grades had been improving since getting OFF the drug. He had even signed up for more extra curricular activities. But his mom took him to the doc again to get checked out and apparently this mystery(to me at least) disease(or whatever it was) he was supposed to have had disappeared like magic. So eh had been taking Ritalin for years for absolutely no reason.

I completely blame his mother for this(dad wasn't the picture). Her idea of playing/watching/taking care of her kids was turn on the tv or video game and then go into the other room to nap because her life was just soooo hard...and did i mention, she never had a job throughout the entire time i knew her?? Now I'm a stay at home mom and I know taking care of kids is hard work(it's also very fullfilling though!) but it's only hard work if you actually DO the work involved. Needless to say, my mother didn't let me over their too often, my friend and her bro were always at my house because my mom felt bad for them. half the time when my mom would bring them home their mom didn't even know they were gone. She thought they were in their rooms, when they had told her(i was with them at the time) that they were going to my house. That woman should have never been allowed to have children ever.


So I do agree that some(well a lot unfortunately) parents use the tv/compputer/video games to babysit their kids and it's just horrible! I mean, there are so many things you can do with your kids! and ya me and the little ones watch a disney movie now and then(or at least part of one, i have a 2 1/2yo and a 6mo and watching an entire movie all in one sitting is impossible lol) Even if you are just sitting down and coloring with your child, that is great quality time, or reading a book, or my latest endeavor is to try and teach my son the basics of fishing(both me and dad like to), not a real pole and hook or anything, don't want him hooking himself lol But he has a little play fishing pole and we go to the lake on the weekends sometimes, so he brings his lil fishing pole and tries to catch the "ish" aka fish. And those moments are so wonderful to me and I feel horrible for parents who do not take the time to do them! you can learn so much joy from children and parent these day are just "too busy" to spend any quality time with their kids and it's pathetic! My children add SO much to my life and I just hope I'm adding a lot to theirs, I try my hardest at least to be the best parent I can. and if i have trouble or have problems with any aspect of parenting i try and take the initiative to find out what else I can do to improve.

I think some people now a days are all about themselves and i completely agree with you Sam, if you can't raise a puppy you should not be allowed to procreate. Even some people who CAN raise a puppy should NEVER be allowed to have children. Example: I read this one story online about a man who had 21 children in 4 years(i think it was 4), by many different woman and how he couldn't afford child support for them and that the kids "just happened". I mean WTF???? That man should be castrated and possibly beaten for complete irresponsibility and stupidity(maybe the women too for knowing that he had a lot of previous children and still deciding "hey screw it who needs protection let's just have fun". It's crazy and i feel bad for the children in that situation. and I'm not saying you shouldn't have that many children. If you can take care and love and nurture 21 kids then go for it. I know a family with 17 kids and they are all sane, happy nurtured and healthy children and they have an unbelievable closeness to one another. but i don't believe most parent could handle having that many children without help(i know i'd probably go insane and that's why the hubby and i use protection(hmm big big hint to the man mentioned above maybe?) until when or if we both feel we are ready and capable of having more). I mean if you can't even afford to have one child, or can't take care or nurture one child why the heck would you go and have more?? Where is the common sense in that??


Ok I'm done now(i promise lol) Sorry I kind of just kept rambling on and possibly got off topic, but the kids are napping and I got bored and i feel strongly about all this!

[specialmom]

Hm.  First of all,  my educational background is actually in psychology.  I worked in research for years surrounding mental illness.  I am now a stay at home mother which is the best job I've ever had-----  and the hardest.  I've been home for 5 years.  Maybe I'm out of touch because of that----- who knows.  I dealt a lot with psychiatrists and clinical psychologists and social workers in my day.  

My experience with teachers over my own educational experience (remember as far back as I can) was posative.  Teachers I know work hard.  It must be very frustrating for them to deal with one child's idiosyncrasies when they have a whole classroom full of kids.  School is designed for the masses, your average student.  I agree it is asame when a child falls through the cracks whether they are above average or below.  

I think you would find my son very entertaining.  He is very bright, friendly, full--- and I mean FULL of energy, and very very funny.  He is a character.  But the day I observed him in his preschool class----  it wasn't the kid I know.  His face told the story I didn't want to hear.  He has sensory integration disorder.  His brain processes stuff differently.  Many kids have sensory symptoms and it is no big deal----  but he couldn't cope.  He wasn't just a pain for the teacher (high maintenence to say the least)----  he didn't have friends, wasn't doing the activities, crying a lot and miserable.  His therapy (as directed through occupational therapy) involves massive physical activity, social skill training, feeding his nervous system intentionally to help his delay.  We have seen such an improvement.  The next year, he was still a little more high maintenece to the teachers but functioned well, had friends, participated in everything, etc.  I wasn't neglecting my son prior to this----  we are an active family and I've tried really hard to do the right things for my kids.  I have a son 15 months younger than the child I speak of.  He is super busy too, does some crazy knuckleheaded stuff, embarresses me occasionally, etc. (just trying to say, he is a handful too)----  but he is different than my older son.  There was a marked difference that I couldn't ignore.  And Sam, it's better.  That's all I can say.  

And I guess I go on and on with you because I feel blessed.  My son has a diagnosis but it helped me to help him.  And I would hate for others to not take that route (and to eachs his own) because they think someone is looking down on them.  There are no easy answers in parenting and there are a lot of parents that just don't care that much.  I agree with you.  But that makes me sorry for the kids.  

And I'm thinking that your issue here is not so much the diagnosis but the suggestion that medication will cure everything and is given just to appease teachers and make kids easier to manage behaviorally.  I don't like that either.

I'm usually called a pollyanna by my friends by the way, not terribly cynical.  Sarcastic----- yeah.  And definately guilty of thinking myself to be funny.  And I realize that not everyone agrees . . .

[SeriousSam]

Hmm Special mom.  Sarcasm actually goes fairly often with cynical actually though as a dad who keeps rather close contact with several schools in Illinois and has several contacts with state boards, I really don't see schools improving and quite honestly the quality of people we attract to be teachers is not generally the highest.

I am curious though?  What is your doctorate in?   People tend to relate problems they see or have within the area of your specialities so from what I can tell you must have a phd rather than an md., you are not in psych or social work, so are you perhaps yourself a teacher?

But to address some issues you brought up.

1) First of all the ad hominem attack was not needed though satisfying I am sure.  I am not a scientologist.  I am a Taoist.

2) Good teachers are rarer than good parents.  The instinct and ability to breed do not make someone a good parent.  It makes them rather proof of Darwins theory of survival of the most viable (fertile).

3)  Medication when a symptom can be treated by diet is as silly and lazy as gastric bypass to cure obesity.  If a simpler cure exists that does not overload the bodies liver then it should be used.  That is simply common sense.  Also..  True ADD usually has a reverse result to stimulants.  For example coffee would make me calm down or even fall asleep... If I were ADD.

4) Schools generally put less obviously smart ADD kids in as bevaviorly disabled classes.  It is not in a schools interest to keep ADD and Dyslexic kids in a regular class room as under no child left behind they screw up test results if left in the normal population.  If put under SD they are exempt.

5)  The truth is people of extraordinary ability, and drive RARELY are attracted to teaching.  There is quite a bit of truth to the adage, "those who can -do, Those who can't teach."  Most people who love their field do not go into elementary or highschool teaching.  They go to where they can explore the depths of their interest.

6)  Regarding feeling sorry for your son?  I think if he falls in the realm of smart kid who is bored he would have little if anything to be afraid from with me.  As they say it takes one to know one.  I have mild dyslexia and my computer colors are set to compensate somewhat for that, I have a reading comprehension rate of 450 wpm and a fairly good compensatory memory.  I think we should actually be increasing gifted funding as opposed to cutting it as we are doing under our current presidents regime in many states.

7) Regarding learning styles.  You are actually right to some extent but look up the statistics on males, education, united states graduation and college admission.


Regarding rants?  It was not meant as a rant but rather as an observation of how currently every kid who is antisocial at two is now an aspergers baby, and every hyper child is not bored, and under exercised but rather ADD, and host of other problems that almost always get treated by drugs.  And all to often these "ailments" become common diagnosis from doctors after drugs are created and education seminars get started by drug companies.

[specialmom]

Yikes----  I think you've gone off the deep end.  Are you mad at parents or teachers?  I've known many parents who can use a parenting class or two and many children who are spoiled and have willful, difficult behavior.  But your simplistic explantion makes me wonder about you.  

I am educated well beyond a bachelors degree with a doctorate at this point.  Life has also educated me.  I wasn't expecting to have a child with a devopmental delay and have taken the time to learn everything I can about it.  And I'm so pleased to be able to help him.  It is a scarey thought that he will encounter people in his life that have an attitude such as yours.  As I said earlier, I have not used medication with my child and most likely wouldn't as his problem isn't adhd but can look like it.  I'm prepared to say no if a suggestion comes my way to medicate him.  But I don't think calling a parent who does so a loser helps anything.  

I will agree on something with you though----  children do have different learning styles and public school caters to the masses.  My child needs to move to learn----  sitting in a desk with no movement makes it impossible for him to learn or focas.  His school expects that of kids.  His fad diagnosis helps his teacher understand that a little movement in the day for him will result in much better learning.  All kids could benefit from this----  but some kids can't cope without it.  Anyway,  I believe teaching is a very giving profession and I've met so many wonderful teachers that try their hardest to help all kids be successful.  And I think they did fine on their ACT/SAT's.  Also,  you need to check your facts.  It has actually become harder in recent years to obtain your teaching degree.  20 years ago it was not as hard as today.   Teaching is like any other profession though, you'll have good ones and bad ones.  That's life.

So the big question for me to you is what is the problem?  You are are ranting to such an extreme that I feel that this must be something bigger.  Have you or a loved one had a bad experience on a medication for ADD/ADHD?  Are  you a scientologist?  If you don't want kids medicated, do you believe in angry grown ups being medicated?  Just curious (and kidding). . .I mean, seriously, Sam.

[SeriousSam]

Honesttly?  Most problems with kids, not all, can be traced to the following.

1) Spoiled-no work ethic taught.  Toys and priveleges have to be worked for.

2) Diet- processed foods etc. are not good for anyone.  Don't believe me ask your doctor.  Many "nuerological" or behavioral disorders can be traced to dietary problems.  If you don't have time to cook teach your kids how to.  Male or female it's a needed skill.  If you don't know how to cook, why did you (male or female) do so when you didn't even have the basic skills yet.

3) Electronics  Kids should be made to do stuff they like that adds to their psyche, an electronic babysitter (tv) followed by the "gift" of a video game should be considered abuse.

4) Attention.  If you are all watching tv's in seperate rooms a surefire way of curing a childs problem is to plug all household tv's in have each adult carry them to a swimming pool and jump in with the tv.  If you give your kid less time than reccomended for a dog, why the heck did you have kids?  Go camping or do something that requires interaction with little interference.

Honestly a bachelors degree, as several of my profs have stated when I was in college, just teaches you the basic language of the field you are enterng.  It does not give you special powers of observation, extra skills etc.. it doesn't even make you a humanitarian.  In fact mostly it's  a secure job with low expectations of excuses, small amounts of accountability, very long vacation breaks and in many cases people who cannot even handle their own kids.

You would not believe how many loser parents are drugging their kids for ADD (which is actually very rare) when the real problem is they have a very intelligent child who has a boring teacher, who cannot realize what even socrates realized- That kids learn better when theyare kept involved.

Instead we "stuff kids inside themselves" as one friend of mine who was doped with this vile stuff said and tell them to be good narcotized zombies.

The truth is we take dregs for teachers all too often to fill a shortage and we have too many adults who should have had their ovaries and testes placed in jars before they could have bred.

A long time ago in America the smartest women and minorities became teachers because that was what was available to educated minorities and women and kids were often honored to have some of the best and smartest people in our country as teachers.

But that is not the case now as the restrictions on an educated person have disappeare all too often we get teachers like my ex, and several friends of my family who had to take their ACT or SAT multiple times to just get into college.

[specialmom]

I agree and disagree with you.  Having children has been the highlight of my life and I have dedicated myself to the job.  I've met many parents that don't feel this way and get lost in the challenges of raising kids.  I feel bad for them because I feel like they miss out on the joy kids can bring---- hard work and all.  So many people use children as their accesories and the kids suffer.  

However, I think you minimize the job of teachers.  They are good judges oftentimes because they have a chance of looking at one child and stacking up their "issues" against all of their peers.  When a child stands out from the crowd with problems, there could very well be an issue.  And when you have a good teacher with years of experience, their advice can be valuable.  They have a difficult job and it is only getting harder.  School classes are getting larger and aides are getting fewer.  Resources are being pulled back in most school systems across this country regardless what kind of district/ real estate tax area you live in.  

I do not believe that a teacher should suggest a child be medicated just to make them easier to deal with.  That I will agree on and wholeheartedly.  But when a diagnosis for a child explains why they are struggling and gives answers as to how to help that child be successful, then diagnose away.  In past years before all of these "fad" dianosis as you call them were not in vogue---- these kids were labled in different ways.  They were the losers of the school, the troublemakers, the ones who never really acheived anything, loners, bullies, failures, and weird.  Now we can say that their brain system doesn't function properly, they have speech problems causing them to have communication problems with peers, they have anxiety.  Why does this bother you?  I would rather address specific needs for a child and help them grow rather than lumping  them into the previos categories of names I mentioned.  My son does have a "fad" diagnosis----  we've never medicated but have worked hard to help him cope.  He went from being very sad, friendless, difficult, "bad", and unsuccessful in preschool (yes it was just preschool, but thank goodness we addressed his problems early before real school started) to a child that does pretty well and doesn't stand out as much from his peers.  The look on his face when he is playing with friends is worth a million bucks to me.  I'm so glad we didn't take the route of thinking he will "grow out of it" because he is so much happier now.  He is very smart, by the way.  That was never the problem.  My younger son is a handful, without a neurological problem.  There is a difference, I agree with you.  But when you are dealing with a ligitimate issue, I think what you suggest is sad for the kids.  

You seem a little synical.  Maybe giving teachers the benefit of the doubt and believing they are trying to help is a more posative approach.  I meet parents all the time who are told something may be wrong with their child and they don't want to believe it.  It is their chance to investigate what the teacher is saying.  I thank the teacher my son had every time I see her because she saw something I didn't and my sons life has changed for the better because of it.  (and without drugs.)

[SeriousSam]

In most of America the education system available is determined by property values.  The greater the value of the property the better the education available.  Some states differ in methods slightly but the end results are about the same.

Also doctors will usually follow the reccomendations of teachers, and regardless of where you are in the world I personally think that people who are in charge of other peoples lives should be tested regularly for competency, drugs, and ability.  Too many teachers EVEN in Canada (I have known some canadians and Canadian ex-patriate doctors) make reccomendations to parents that they are not qualified to make.

[jdtm]

First of all do not let a school teacher diagnose your child  --  your words

Teachers do not diagnose children; they only describe behaviours.  The above statement is wrong.  Do keep in mind that the "teacher unions" of one area is not the same as the "teacher unions" of another area.  Where I live, all teachers are required to have a valid university degree with two successful years teaching before obtaining a teaching certificate.  Those involved in nursery and/or pre-school situations are not "teachers" but Early Childhood Education instructors.  There is a big difference.  By the way, "tenure and skill competency testing" is not required in countries where the educational system is more regulated, structured, and better managed.  


For behavioral problems go to the RIGHT specialist instead of a GP  --  your words

In my area (Canada),  the first step in the process is always a visit to the family doctor and from the family doctor one is able to obtain a referral to a specialist.  A specialist will not see a "patient" without this referral (and I suspect it is this way in many parts of the world - after all, this is an international website).


Finally, I agree with the last two points of the original poster.  Just my two cents ...

[margypops]

Agree with all you have posted here, there is no doubt that too many labels are put on children and diagnosis for behaviors that seem like normal childhood frustrations. I do understand concerns by parents though so there should be more  of talking /discussion, regarding Child/Parent interaction, very often it is the parents handling of an issue that is messed up.,better parenting skills can be employed.