PLEASE HELP MY 3 YEAR OLD IS OUT OF CONTROL

my son just turned 3. he is totally out of control. he will not mind me at all its his way or no way. we cant go anywhere because he screams runs away from me and refuses to do and act as he is told.I  think its worse in around other ppl like when we go out or in wal mart.i dont know if he dosent comperhend what i am telling him or just dosent care.we have tried time out spanking talking calm yelling nothing works. he has to know the things he does he will get in trouble for i know he knows better but he just dont care. he tries to tell me what he will do and no matter what i do he will not give in i know ppl say u just gotta show him ypur the boss and not let him run over u but it dosent work wether he gets his way or not he will do the same thing the next time for example I have put him in karate he has only been twice but he cant go to class yet because he will not mind they are working with him 1 on 1 anyway today he was doing great and doing everything he was told then suddenly took off across the gym and would not come back and was laughing i ran him down and out him in time out and to told him sit until i told him to get up for running from mommy and not minding me and his teacher while i was trying to talk to the instructer about him he got up ran upstairs would not come back and this happened over and over again until i finally pulled his pants down and gave him a good red booty then sat him back in time out this still did no good he got prob 3 spankings and never did sit in time out and thought the whole thing was so funny i couldnt even talk to the instructer it is really embarising because he acted this way he didnt get his first belt or his karate suit AGAIN and dosent get to start class w the other kids he wans his belt and suit and wants to go with the other kids (he told me and was very disapointed) he also knows all he has to do is mind to get these things but he will not listen i know children will be children and test there parents but he really goes overboard he is so hardheaded and headstrong and will not give in waht do i do!!!!

[RockRose]

I think this is a good sign,  stayathomemommy.  

Usually the behavior  gets worse when you clamp down,  temporarily.  

Sounds like it's hitting home for him.

Keep at it - we're pulling for you!!!

[specialmom]

Okay.  Take a deep breath.  Remember, they do grow up!  Three year olds are hard and their constant desire to test boundaries certainly tests our patience!  So take a deep breath.  

I'd say that spanking is not working.  So I'd take a different approach.  First---------  I knew what mattered to my kids.  My older son had a "blankie" that he loved and was attached to.  I threatened the loss of blankie if he did not comply when I needed him to.  And I always followed through.  I'd only take it away for a bit-------  but once I did it a couple of times----------  the threat had power.  He didn't want to lose the blankie . . . he'd scramble when I used the threat.  
The other thing that has really worked for me is natural consequences.  I say what I mean, keep it simple and follow through.  I say ahead of time--------  if you run away from me . . . I will pick you up and take you to the car and then home.  Period.  No matter what you have to do, where they are at in class, etc.  And if he ran----------  I'd get him, pick him up and take him out.  Gone.  If they throw something, they lose it.  If they fight or scream while I'm driving, I pull over.  If they wander off or cause an issue at the grocery store, I leave a full cart of groceries and we leave.  If they misbehave in a restaurant---  we leave.  They always get one warning and then I follow through.  My sons really responded to this because they knew that I wasn't playing.  I NEVER yelled and I've never given my kids a spanking.  I just mean business when I say something.  
I think for your boy you'll need to give him choices.  You control the choices so it is not like he is getting his way.  But he may be more willing to do what you want if he's had something to do with the choice of it.  
Most importantly, stay calm.  It doesn't help for you to escalate your frustration.  He kind of learns to deal with issues that same way then.  So be super calm. And be in charge.
One last thing.  Make him your helper.  When you are on your way out from the class (from your above example) say to him---------  Okay X, I have an important job for you!!!  Mommy needs your help a whole lot.  Please carry this bag for me.  It is so important that you help mommy!!  and then give him the bag.  If he stays by you and takes the bag out as your helper--------   praise him like nuts. Make him your helper a lot!
Good luck

[chloe802]

I give you a lot of credit, because at least you are trying. Most parents would give in (Well, not most, some). You are trying, and keep on trying, because eventually, something SHOULD work.

Hate to say this, but what I find what works is by taking away their most favorite thing. And- Time out in the bedroom, as long as he is safe- Don't give in, I know it's hard, but even if he has to cry himself to sleep. A lot of kids do not like their most favorite item out of reach and just might remember if they do not listen- their favorite "Spiderman costume" or Blanket will be out of their possesion. try that- If it doesn't work- come back on here... There are lots of Mommies in the same position. I just did a simulair post, as well....

[specialmom]

I mentioned the favorite item as well, it works for me too.  I think the empty threats is a problem with some parents.  We all have good intentions and are trying--------  but we have to follow through.  

[RockRose]

I agree with the others,  but I also have to say when you put him in time out you need to be willing to make him stay there.  Repeatedly having to chase him around while you have a long discussion with the instructor isn't working.  I don't understand the "running upstairs and not coming back" part - he wouldn't make it half way up the stairs before I caught him,  and there wouldn't be a chance for him to refuse to come back - I'd have custody of his body.

I will say,  he sounds very challenging,  and hats off to you for trying.  I never had a child who behaved this way but I have seen other boys do it,  and have watched them grow up and the ones who "turned out" well had mothers who were VERY hands on.  One warning,  you misbehave again and we are leaving RIGHT THEN and what happens next will not be fun.  Allowing him to misbehave,  and then spanking him,  and allowing it to happen again won't work because he does get a little reward each time - he's able to dash around and frustrate you.  

I will say that I've known  boys who behaved like your son in the preschool age and they didn't turn out well at all in young adulthood.  

I think it's good that you are seeking help,  and if you have to change karate schools until you get a teacher who can make him behave (I watched a karate class last week where your son would NOT have crossed the teacher!) then keep with it.  Karate is a great discipline learning tool.

[stayathomemommyof2]

thank u so much for ur suggestions i think i will try taking things that matters to him away. But as far as in public thats were the big issues are and i know u said if ur in wal mart leave the buggy and go haom or out to eat take him and leave the restaurant but i feel like that wont work w him i dont think he will care and i feel like th that is letting him control the situation heacts out so i dont get groceries or we dont get to eat but thank u and im open to any options i talked to his dr about him just to get her opinion on wether she thought there was a  medical problem or what( I dont really want him medicated) and she said i just need to be consistant

[RockRose]

I didn't clarify the second to last paragraph.

Some of the boys I've known who acted like your son have turned out really badly,  and they had mothers who either didn't try at all,  or gave up trying.

[stayathomemommyof2]

i mean he did come back arter i ran him down out of breath and put him back and i could not catch him on the stairs i was afraid he would get hurt and i know the spanking is not working if anything i think it makes it worse but sometimes i feel like i have no other option at the moment and time i dont know what else to do

[RockRose]

You'd be surprised,  stay at home,  at how it will change his behavior if he is yanked out of the restaurant chair and held in the foyer while the waiter prepares to go boxes and processes the credit card.  If you act cold and angry (as opposed to acting kind of wild and out of control),  or if you say that's it,  we're going and grab his body up and grab your purse out of the walmart cart and get out of the store,  this will change behavior.  It doesn't seem like it will,  it seems like maybe he would like to get to leave Walmart or the restaurant,  but it's what happens afterwards that matters.

Once he is in his car seat continue to act cold and angry.  Say thinks in a calm voice like that was really embarrassing to me,  and now we don't have groceries so I guess I will have to go out later and get food,  but I won't be getting any cookies or treats.  I'm angry that your behavior caused us to have to leave the store without the things we need.

By this time,  he will be crying.  I promise.  But don't let up.  When we get home you're going to your room for awhile because I'm angry and I really don't want to be around you right now.  

This will change behavior.  

[stayathomemommyof2]

and i do try to praise him for all he does goodand let him  be my little helper but it is hard

[stayathomemommyof2]

i will try i hope yall are right and i am worried if i dont get him under control it will only get worse and he will be an out of control teen or have authority issues later in life i wont so bad to help him but i need someone to help me

[RockRose]

Stay at home,  are you married?  I assumed so since you are a stay at home mother.  Is your husband better able to control him?  In my experience fathers really can set the tone of discipline.

[stayathomemommyof2]

yes i am married but his dad dosent have as much patience as i do ( and idont have much) he gives up too easy and no he has no more control than i do he isnt about time outs he wants to whip him and this causes issues between us because i have whiped my son but i feel like he whips him to hard (not abusing him but he is a fairly big grown man and my son is a little 3 year old )and i pull my son away or take up for him which causes an arguement between my husband and myself i know this might not be good as far as my son is concerned because he is working us against each other nor is it good on our marriage but my husband believes in a good spanking i did and maybe it is for some kids but i think it makes my son worse my husband says it isnt working because my son isnt getting enough spankings or there not good enough (if u spanke d him good enough he would mind) i know this sounds bad but he has never or would i ever let him go OVERBOARD with the spankings anyway needless to say my husband and i have dif opinions on our child i know we have to agree and stick together but we have some work to do and really this has caused a big strain on our marriage

[chloe802]

My original major was Early Childhood Development- When I was doing my internship (At a Pre School at the college) one thing we learned was to always refer things to a positive. For example, instead of saying "Don't run!"- We would say, "Please walk..." or instead of saying, "Be Quiet!" we would say, "Please use your inside voices..." A child's brain doesn't always comprehend the whole entire sentence. Like if I was to say to a 3 year old, "Please don't walk on the grass," they hear: "Walk on the grass..." This takes time and repeating, but they eventually catch on, which, in return, turns into good behavior and positive listening skills. Idk if you read the post I wrote about my 4 yr old neighbor, but I did notice he did catch on to one thing I would constantly repeat, and that use "Using our nice hands, we always have nice hands..." (He would hit his 2 year old sister) He said the other day while playing w/ the little girl I was babysitting, "_____ used her nice hands!" That just basically showed to me he understood it was proper not to hit others. And like I said, in return, he stopped hitting his sister, and even said to her for HER to use her "nice hands." I know it may sound almost too nice and giving in, but just speaking to them in a rational matter in a positive sentence will eventually sink into their brain. So, if he was to throw a fit in wallmart, he might comprehend a postive matter sentence. Just an idea-  It will also help for social development.

[chloe802]

Oh- and one more thing, I know you said he isn't minding at all and kids will test their parents, but, as islly as this may sound, those children, at such a young age who do that, ARE very bright kids, and this is just a phase, but I know you do want control, because you are a good mama who knows that you need help w/ him. Before you know it- he will be in middle school on the honor roll, playing soccer or something w/ lots of friends. I know this stage in their/your life just feels like a never ending ordeal... You are doing the right thing by having him involved w/ social activities. Is he totally attached to you where he wants your attention 24/7? Meaning, is he your shadow at home and doesn't like you to give attention to others because he wants you to himself? Is he the oldest or youngest? I'm just curious, because, if he is the oldest and very attached to you, this is a comman problem w/ a lot of young kids, and can be fixed w/ time...

[RockRose]

stayathome,  the thing is,  that keeps parents like your husband believing what he believes about very harsh spankings is the fact that in the short term,  it does work.   In the short term.  If you were to spank this child hard enough to really HURT,  and leave marks,  and make it where he can't sit comfortably for a few days,  he would absolutely behave better in your presence.  That's why parents believe spanking works because it seems to right then.

I think the dynamic between you and your husband is actually adding to your son's misbehavior,  he's playing the two of you off each other.  

The thing is,  you're both right.  You're right in not wanting your son beaten on - you want him to behave but you want better ways to make this happen.  Your husband is right that if he were allowed to beat on that child,  your son would obey him.  In the short term.  

(this is getting long,  sorry,  but your story is really striking a cord with me).

The question is:   Do you want revenge,  or do you want to change behavior?  This is so critical,  to answer this question and stick with the answer.  You don't want revenge,  you want the behavior to change.  Your husband wants a bit of revenge first, frankly.

I think if you and your husband sat down and decided not to argue in front of the child,  with him bullying and you rescuing,  it would work wonders.  

Can you get your husband to try this for a month?  Both of you,  exactly on the same page,  backing each other up.  "Do what your father said" "Don't backtalk your mother",  that kind of thing.  A pop on the rear is fine,  but nothing beyond that.

Would your husband go for that for a month and see what happens?

I think you would have great success,  fairly quickly.

Best wishes.

[stayathomemommyof2]

RockRose i agree with u 100% and i will talk to my husband when he gets home spanking does seem like a great short term punishment but it dosent chsnge his behavior it just stops it for the time being and dosent always do this thank u so much for all ur advice and i do believe what is going on between me and my husband is making his behavior worse




TO Chole  he is the oldest but not very attached he does his own thing most of the time but when he wants attention i try to give it sometimes i even have to make him spend time w me ha ha he actually loves to go and do things with other ppl  yes without me although i have been told he does want me at bed time  however i think i keep him at home with me to much he wants to go but i will miss him or feel like he has been going to much lately and needs to be home

[stayathomemommyof2]

also he is VERY BRIGHT and so smart for is age so yes i do agree with u on that as well

[specialmom]

Stayathomemommy, I can hear from your post that you are really trying and that is great.  I will tell you that I have two sons that are 15 months apart.  My oldest boy  has a developmental delay called sensory integration disorder and my second son does not. Both can get wild.  Both can do wacky things.  What I described really has worked from me. Tried and tested and worked.  It is called natural consequences.  So think about what the consequence will be for something.  YOu may not take them grocery shopping or to a restuarant--------  but the gym counts.  Warn him about losing his favorite item and that he will leave immediately if he does X.  I teaches that you mean what you say and that there are consequences and HIS behavior determines what happens.  There is a good book called "love and logic" that talks a lot about natural consequences.

For 3, I'd keep it simple.  If I said use your inside voice----  my boys would not hear all of the words.  Rambunctious boys tend to miss some of the words.  So I'm better off with a simple command (soft voice)  (or say just "whisper").  For little children-------  very simple and quick commands work best.  

Try to always remain patient and I'd try to speak with your husband about keeping things calm at home.  Discipline is for teaching and guiding and not so much for creating fear in my opinion. Real respect comes from teaching and guiding.  It is hard when spouses aren't on the same page.  This happens to a lot of couples-----  so do the best you can with that.

And distracting with JOBS really helps my boys.  So when you need him to comply and be by your side---------  mom's helper is a good idea.  
good luck

[stayathomemommyof2]

today has been horable he has tested every bit of patience i have i am trying to stick with it but am so fed up just after 1 day i am trying so hard the karate instructer told me to try and take away everything that matters to him when we got home and give it back little by little as he does good things just something as simple as sitting down and eating super as he was told when he misbehaves take something back what do u think about that i need opionions and any advice i will try anything i am going to try this along with timeouts and other techniques everyone has suggested

[RockRose]

I think this is a good sign,  stayathomemommy.  

Usually the behavior  gets worse when you clamp down,  temporarily.  

Sounds like it's hitting home for him.

Keep at it - we're pulling for you!!!

[StressedTwinsmom]

Hello!

I have stumbled across your thread, as I am now a mom two 3 year old twin boys.  One of them is so well behaved and calm, its a joke.  The other, is so wound up, and fresh, almost like he can't help himself.  We can't take him to restaurants, or shopping, and it seems EVERYONE has an opinion on how I should discipline him.

I have found such help in the posts on this site.  I'm wondering how your boy is today?  Did he out-grow these "tough three's" and move on to a calmer, more agreeable child?  That is what people tell me, but it's SO tough when you're living it.

Thank you,
StressedTwinsMom