Aa
Aa
A
A
A
Close
Avatar universal

School Issues- Kindergarten

My son is 5 years old. For the last few years we have noticed an array of different behavior problems. They have ranged from inability to focus, hyperactivity, aggression, preference of being around adults instead of children and so on. The first thought was ADHD...but after two years of working hard with him...ADHD does not seem to fit. I have researched anxiety disorders, dyslexia, oppositional defiant disorder, autism and so on. Nothing seems to fit just right.
So here is what we are currently facing...
At home my son has improved tremendously. His hyperactivity has died down and he seems more like a typical 5 year old boy. He generally listens on the first try or at least by the second. If he is tired...it could take five times or more. He is sweet...caring...affectionate...thoughtful...very attentive...overall a fun loving kid. As long as he is around adults...this is the behavior he shows. Most the comments we receive are...what a well behaved lovable boy. He shows little to no aggression...never uses bad words...is clear on what is right from wrong.
At school...he seems to be a completely different child. Since day one we have had issues. What started as a concern with him sitting quietly or participating with other children quickly developed into much more serious concerns. According to his teacher and the staff at the school my son show's aggression (hitting, kicking), he says bad words, treats kids poorly (name calling, destroying their papers), isolates himself, wont participate...it goes on and on.
We have met with the school many times...my son has been sent to the principals office countless times...he has been suspended once. We have a big meeting coming up soon to evaluate him for special ed. The teacher is stating she feels my son will fail Kindergarten because he is not academically up to standards. However, I work with my son twice a day on homework and he is academically "average" in reading/writing and advanced in mathematics and language/communication. He can relate to and understand adult concepts. His memory is outstanding...he remembers things from when he was two that even I forgot. He asks lots of questions and unlike typical children doesnt accept the basic answer...he digs deeper. My son is very aware that he is treated different at school and on the bus...he states this makes him sad. When asked if he likes school...he states he likes/misses his teacher but not the other children. The moment he walks to the school bus...his whole demeanor changes.
What I know to be true is this...my son acts very differently at home vs at school...he has always preferred adults/older children over children his own age...I have witnessed this "poor" behavior the school speaks of when he is around children of his own age or children who are more active/unruly and he does require more focused attention to stay on track and behave (not an independent worker). One last thing...I have noticed that school has greatly influenced his self confidence/worth...he has come home saying he is stupid or ugly and wants a new face. Things he heard at school.
Oh...one more thing...he does know right from wrong...he shows accurate emotions when he has done something wrong...shows remorse...guilt...sadness...
Sorry this was so long...but I am desperate for some answers. For years everyone has "guessed" at what could be the problem...we have tried hundreds of things with him...I want something concrete. I refuse to let my son fail kindergarten...he is smart...gifted I believe...socially/emotionally maybe immature...but too smart to be held back.
Help anyone...ideas....please!
102 Responses
Sort by: Helpful Oldest Newest
973741 tn?1342342773
I'm always happy to help in this area.  What helps me to know what kinds of activities that are needed is a little information about your child.  
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hi,

Can you help me by listing some of the sensory processing activities please?
Helpful - 0
973741 tn?1342342773
I know right?  I do wish people would come back and update us!!
Helpful - 0
189897 tn?1441126518
COMMUNITY LEADER
Wow!  This post goes back a long time.   I really wonder how ANSO4 and her little guy did?
Helpful - 0
973741 tn?1342342773
I think what sandman is referring to is that a good teacher with lots of experience can recognize when certain issues are going on and what they may be related to.  They then can make a recommendation that is often dead on accurate.  But of course, no teacher is to diagnose a child EVEN add/adhd and dyslexia.  A school psychologist can also observe upon a teacher's request for helping to discern what is going on.  

Our school system is rated excellent and is nationally ranked as well.  While in my son's first classroom, I hear the teacher call a boy who has special needs an idiot.  I reported it.  I was so disgusted by that and I heard it with my own two ears.  She was reprimanded and moved to a higher grade although I'm not sure ANY child should have a teacher that can reach that level of frustration with a child and especially one who struggles.

I did actually go the private route in seeking occupational therapy for my son with sensory integration disorder.  But, my husband and I are well enough off that we could do it at 150 bucks out of pocket a week.  There are families that simply can not afford that.  My son's 504 plan was placed at the end of 4th grade.  I was glad to get it. I wasn't fighting for it but will say that I had asked IN KINDERGARTEN and was told no.  So, my son said things like "I'm dumb", "I get in trouble because I can't sit still and the kids hate me", blah blah blah because of his early experience in the classroom with out an 504 plan that made some minor accommodations such as peripheral seating in the room so he could stand when needed, etc.  My son actually has tested gifted at this point and has had nothing but A's, so he never was dumb but had some struggles in classroom dynamics.  Took a long time to undo this early perception he had of himself.  

So, I'm not so sure that kindergarten is too early for a 504 plan.  

Kids are all different and teaching isn't an easy job.  Lots of dynamics play into scenarios so that no absolutes can be drawn.  Luck to all parents who struggle with their kids.  
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
School systems are not in the business of diagnosing.  I work in the number one school system in the nation, MCPS, and we are NOT allowed to make diagnoses besides ADHD and Dyslexia.  That is what other professionals are for.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
First of all, I am a teacher with experience in grades K-3, and the first thing I have to ask is, why would you want a 504 for a child in Kindergarten?  That is way too soon.  Furthermore, the teacher is correct: if all students are being assessed and your child does not respond appropriately to the questions, that's a problem.  Teachers do NOT like tests at all, and we are forced to administer them by the higher-ups.  They are the ones who decide HOW and WHEN these assessments will be administered.  Furthermore, I highly doubt that anyone has called your son "stupid," which seems an odd choice of words for a young child; usually that is an unacceptable word at the age of five.  However, if he prefers the company of adults, he may have picked up a few terms from them.  This does not imply any wrong-doing; it is just a fact that some words adults use are not heard in the everyday vernacular of very young child.
Moreover, we are talking about public school.  While everyone is entitled to a free education, you get what you pay for, and special needs are not always handled in the most effective way when the issues are related to UNCOMMON disabilities.  Most of the resources are spent on assessments, paperwork, and compliance with laws.  And yes, your child is not the only one in the class; there are probably 20 more children at least  who are also supposed to meet the expectations, and most do.  I would advise you go the private route and pay for top-quality specialists.  I gave up trying to secure speech services for my own son; uphill battle for less-than-stellar therapy was my final thought. So I have been on both ends of the deal, as a parent and as a teacher.  Good luck
Helpful - 0
480448 tn?1426948538
Well said SM!

I totally disagree that children are not at an "academic learning age" until 7.  In the right setting, with brief periods of instruction, young children learn wonderfully.  I was truly astounded and amazed at the learning my son did in preschool.  Children start learning from birth.  My son is eight and I'd say that the majority of the BASIC skills he's learned (math, reading, writing) happened in pre-K and kindergarten.

Also, let's face it, there are good schools and bad schools out there, both public and private.  It's important for parents to do THEIR homework about their local schools to choose what THEY feel is best for their child, which is going to vary from child to child tremendously.

I just think it's painting with a broad brush to discount all public schools.  
Helpful - 0
973741 tn?1342342773
peace, actually kids start kindergarten at 5 years with a few 6 year olds.  It has been fine for both of my children entering kindergarten at 5.  Both learned to read, did math, etc.  Math usually includes things like rolling dice and adding up the numbers.  Most  kindergarten classes aren't set up where there are desks and things like that.  It seems like you haven't been in a classroom either in a long time or at all.

By first grade when kids are 6 to 7, most sit just fine at their tables and desks.  I have a child with sensory integration disorder and he thrives in a controlled classroom ---  much better than the loosey goosey style you see at Montessori schools.  Routine is very helpful for some kids and structure is really wonderful as well.  

We had issues in preschool--------  but traditional primary school has been fantastic for both of my kids.  Both thriving and doing well after a hard preschool experience.  

So readers, do not feel because your child has issues in preschool that you have to spend gobs of money for private schools.  good luck
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Children are not in the age of academic until age 7. It is a waste of their precious time. To try and force a child under 6 or 7 before they are ready to sit still and do math, reading, learning a letter, etc and be given something new to learn everyday, as the public school system dictates, is entirely against our human psychological development for learning.

I don't blame these children for acting out and having anxiety about all of this....

I would highly recommend researching other educational systems. I'm a huge follower of Rudolph Steiner and Waldorf education methods, but there are many other methods that might engage your child specifically and fulfill what he is needing: Waldorf, Montessouri, Unschooling, and many others....

I always ask myself with my own child or my students in my preschool: "what am I doing or the parents doing that is not serving this child?"

Kim John Payne, Barbara Schumaker "It's OK Not TO SHare" , and Alfie Kohn are some wonderful authors and experts on child psychology and parenting methods that are so helpful...

Best of wishes to you and your child..
Helpful - 0
973741 tn?1342342773
Hi there and welcome to med help.  Wanted to tell you about the sensory integration forum here at med help.  My son also has sensory and love to have other people to discuss things with.  here is the link:

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Sensory-Integration-Disorder-SID/show/1396?controller=forums&action=show&id=1396&camp=msc

Or you can find it in the "related communities" section at the right of this page.  thanks and hope you join us!
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
This sounds like my son.  He has a sensory processing disorder and has made great gains with occupational therapy.  
Helpful - 0
973741 tn?1342342773
Hi there.  I was here today and caught your post.  They've started a sensory integration disorder forum here at med help recently (that I am very excited about!!)  and I'd be happy to answer any questions about sensory for you.  Look to the right of this page and you will see 'related communities'  Open the box and you'll see sensory integration disorder.  You can go there and maybe tell me a little about your son!  That would be helpful for me to help you.

my own son was diagnosed with sensory when he was 4 and I know full well the worries of impending school.  If it helps at all, my son is now 8 and going into the 3rd grade and doing terrific.  You can really help a child with sensory.  
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
HI specialmom, i have read so many of your comments it seems like im going through similar with my 4 year old son. he has showed been diagnosed with add / od / cd. That was from his GP and Specialist. however i am interested to know about the Sensory disorder. I took him to an OT and she seemed to think this is what he had. she is on holidays for a month. What is the disorder and how can i help my son? what did you do to improve things? He starts school next February and my husband and i are very nervous about this?

Thanks Aussie Mum
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I understand completely what youre going through, I have these exact feelings towards my 7 year old daughter. She drives me crazy, doesnt listen, acts up in school, on the school bus, at relatives homes. She lies constantly about EVERYTHING, urinates/deficates on herself randomly, steals, etc. I'm at my wits end, i've spanked and punished to no avail. I always threaten to withhold presents on birthdays, christmas, but I never follow through. I'll end up throwing her a birthday party and getting her exactly what she wants for Christmas. I dont specifically praise her when shes good, but we randomly go to the store and i'll let her pick out toys, we go to the movies, festivals, museums, chuck e cheese etc. These are things that we dont do when shes really been acting up. At times I also feel like doing the adoption thing because it gets to the point where im SO stressd from her behavior, I feel like its affecting my health and sanity. Life is too short to be stressed out constantly.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
My son was having a lot of these same issues at school.  Now we have had to move him into a class with others who have issues where he will be more supported.  Personaly I think the 7 year old who is in the classroom really needs a LOT of evaluation, why does he keep failing and why is he so disruptive.  

to me it sounds like there is poor classroom management going on.

Also, I think once a child gets set into a pattern of negativity, it can be hard to break.  

I would set up a mtg with the teacher and if you think it would help bring in the principal.

I took my son also to a child psychiatrist, he does not think my son is ADD/ADHD.  I also took my son to see an OT and they say he has sensory processing disorder and will start undergoing OT treatmeents.  

Also, if you are picking him up early when they call you, this sets up a bad situation too.  The child will act up to get sent home and believe me it will only get worse and worse.  

How is your son doing academically?

Good luck, and keep us updated.  You might want to post a separate post as this one is really long.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I have a 5 year old son who jsut recently started acting up in school as well. He was perfect until xmas break and when he got back he started acting up. He would yell at the other kids when they answered the questions before him. He would kick his chair or throw his papers on the floor if he didnt get his way. I dont know why he acts like this there. I have seen how his behavior changes when we reach school grounds and are about to walk into the gate, its like he gets mad. it is a full kinder class room with 22 kids and he is NOT the only boy who acts up. there is a 7 year old that was held back 2 times becuase of his behavior and he seems to rile up the other kids. they all pick on each other by poking each others heads, faces or hitting each other with their folders and that just sets the kid who got hit off. ive been to the principle and my husband even volunteered in the class a few times but nothing is working. we took him to the dr and she says he is healthy and does not have ADD. he is a sweetheart who doestn say bad words or do those things at home. i dont understand why it is how it is and i dont want him to fail out kinder being there's only one month left. I just got a call from my husband today saying he just picked him up and today was one of the worst days. hitting yelling crying. they took him inot other class rooms and even the principles office. im thinking maybe he needs to change schools. i dont know what to do
Helpful - 0
189897 tn?1441126518
COMMUNITY LEADER
I can understand your feeling.  Think how his teacher must be feeling.  To her, the wall has got to be even more frustrating.  She knows he needs help and can't provide the help he needs - its like watching a child drown in front of you.  I've been there.  Worse thing is she sees it every single day.

Good thing is that she knows he needs the extra help.  Big difference from the teacher that says he is just lazy.  The fact she feels this way can lead to good things.  One thought I had was that for a child to be in special ed, there must be a discrepancy between achievement and ability.  I don't know if she is experienced enough to have figured this out - but its always possible that she is looking for a way to get him more help, and you need test results to do that.

Main thing is that these things don't happen overnight (sad to say).  You have done a great job getting things moving.  Do find out about the 504, its very important.  I think you have a great resource in this teacher.  Do try and work with her.  Realize she is the messenger, not the person in charge.    If you can - and I know its hard with all that is going on around you - try and relax a bit.  Enjoy your son.  Keep doing those good things at home for him.  Something is happening to make the noticeable  improvements at school, and home has got to be a part of that.   Realize that his teacher is probably also frustrated.  Try and support her.   Do something for yourself, you deserve it.  
Helpful - 0
973741 tn?1342342773
Very frustrating, but would you say that the things they are doing behaviorally are helping?  That at least is a step in the right direction.

I think part of the problem is that he is unable to attend when in the classroom . . . that this is part of the evaluation . . . if he can't do it when the other kids are there-----  well, that is school.  ALL of the kids want to run off and play . . . but got through the evaluation.  Your son needs to be able to do this as well unless there is a documented reason he can not.  Then his IEP or 504 plan would have the alternative plan.  So Sandman is right, you need to ask for this.  I think all kids would like to have a one on one aide to teach them . . . my son started off the school year according to his teacher requesting her attention a lot.  He does do better with one on one too.  But he has to learn to work in the confines of a classroom and become an independent learner.  Aides are helpful but you realize that they are assigned a child but work with all children in the class as well as the teacher does, right?  It is my understanding in our school that they will help with a child without declaring which child it is as they are to maintain confidentiality.  Unless a child has a physical handicap that everyone sees, there are times in which people are only guessing which student the aide is there for.  This is better for the child.  

So I totally hear your frustration and understand it, but I think requesting a more formal plan and keeping expectations realistic will help.  just my thoughts here----  and I know that you are feeling anger and panic as he might be held back.  But if it will ultimately help him, that is something to think about.  Schools don't like to hold kids back, there has to be valid reasons.  
I hope you get a good response to your request for the 504 plan and please ask about a parent advocate to help you navigate through.  good luck

Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
They dont make any sense this stupid school. One minute they are acting like the world is coming to an end...and things are so severe. The next they are brushing it off like nothing. The teacher evaluated each child individually but in the classroom while the other kids were doing activities. Ummm DUH of course he could careless about his least favorite thing...reading/writing...he just wants to be done and go play. Had she taken him out of the classroom and evaluated in a quiet area...she would have seen he knows everything.

His teacher flat out said...he needs more resources...he needs someone to be working with him...this is how he responds the best...but the resources are not available.

I am so done...I feel like I keep hitting a brick wall!
Helpful - 0
973741 tn?1342342773
That is where I am confused . . . I thought that they said he was being failed for behavior and that academically he was fine.  I thought they said he was above his grade level for academics . . . that is confusing.  Even one on one, he is refusing to show them his performance level?  That would be very frustrating to me.  

I just don't understand where they are coming from suggesting that nothing is wrong but his desire for attention.  Does not make sense to me.

I think you are doing the right thing in asking for the 504.  If they hold him back for a year---- would it give him a better start?  Sometimes it can be a good thing.  (remind me when his birthday is . . . I can't recall).  But I can see where you are distrustful of the whole situation.  Hard to know where to turn------  have you asked about the parent advocate?  Arrrggg.  sounds very stressful.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I have an e-mail from the school counselor stating that the counselor and psychologist would each be meeting weekly with my son. In addition, the teacher stated the psychologist was suppose to come last Friday but did not show up. I am clear on what they told me...it is in writing...in my email box. They are not following through with it.

I am going to e-mail his counselor and ask about the 504.

I will say that YES good things have happened for my son...however...his teacher just told me Tuesday she had to pretty much fail him in reading/writing because he would not demonstrate that he knew the necessary information...even though at home he easily knows the required information. She herself told me that my son needs more resources and is not getting them. So the teacher is trying to find alternatives...I just feel the whole thing is ridiculous.
Helpful - 0
189897 tn?1441126518
COMMUNITY LEADER
   You said,  "No wonder the principle kept pushing for my son to be in special ed...that was her easy quick fix." Its not a quick and easy fix - all the other things are quick, probably none of them easy.  Its too bad that he didn't qualify for special ed.  However, kids with ADHD and other behavioral issues usually don't (which I think is stupid).  
     Next thought is that it has only been about one week since you gave us the update on Jan. 12.  and I couldn't find a place where weekly visits to counselor by your son were mentioned.  You did say in that post that you would have weekly meetings with the counselor.  Makes me wonder if you ever got a written plan from them?  This is why a 504 is important - because it is a written plan with legal implications.
The point is that he should be qualifying for a 504.  The following is from -                        http://www.ldonline.org/article/6108  .  
Its a great article and well worth reading.
   "Although it is impossible to specify all situations in which children should be referred for Section 504 and ADA services, there are several situations that should result in automatic consideration of a student for Section 504 and ADA services. These include the following (Council of Administrators of Special Education, n.d.):

    * when a student is referred for IDEA services but the decision is to not evaluate;
    * when a student is evaluated for IDEA services but is determined to be not eligible;
    * when a student is suspected of having any disability;
    * when a student continues to display behavior problems;
    * when a student has a major health problem;
    * when a student is expelled or suspended;
    * when a student seems to be having problems that cannot be explained;
    * When a parent requests consideration for Section 504 and the ADA services"

    I am not sure that his teacher is exactly aware of what is doing on.  So I think his counselor is the best place to start.  What you want to do is ask if the BIP is a 504 and if not why?  Based on the above he should qualify.  Tell her you want that process started!
    And yes, I think that there is and recently has been a lot of good news about your son.  It sounds like there are communication problems about what is going to happen.  Outside of the fact that these things take time, I think that if you know exactly what is going to happen - you will be able to make better decisions.
  I agree with Specialmom completely.  Private schools usually don't have the resources  to work (and many times won't even touch) with special needs kids. Your money could be much more wisely spent on your child.
Helpful - 0
973741 tn?1342342773
Well, first there was good news in your post . . . his teacher says he is doing fine in the classroom . .. That IS Good!!!!  So, I would be pleased to hear that part anyway.  I think I would call the principal about it . . . and you've discovered the problem of not having an IEP.  They are required to follow everything in an IEP by law . . . if you don't have one, then they just do what they can.  I guess we all need to vote for our school levies, right?  We voted for our most recent one but it didn't pass----  hence there were cuts.  I think who your Govenor is matters too----  I've written ours as he cut funding to such programs in our state.  Anyway, that is reality.  I guess I would just continue to be the squeaky wheel looking to get that oil.  But dont lose sight of the fact that she said he was doing fine.  

As far as private schools----  well, they are not great for kids way far out of the average.  They don't have to abide by "no child left behind" and hence, do not accomadate high maintence students.  I had a really good friend that is a teacher that I was discussing things about my son with----  It was at a time in which I was struggling with it all and I spoke of putting him in private schools---  anyway, she said NO.  You need any child with behavior issues in a public school as that is where they are handled the best.  The private school may do some extra things if they feel like it, but don't have to.  Puts you in a much weaker position to deal with things.  And those schools have tighter budgets than the public schools . . . and less resources to pull from.  I like the Montessori concept . . . but my son does much better with routine and structure.  

I would follow up on the info Sandman gave you and call the principal.  The principal is a pill to deal with it sounds---------  but you need them to take the committments they make to you seriously.  If you don't want to call the principal, at least call the school counselor.  Good luck----------  hoping for the best for you and your son.
Helpful - 0
Have an Answer?

You are reading content posted in the Child Behavior Community

Top Children's Health Answerers
189897 tn?1441126518
San Pedro, CA
Learn About Top Answerers
Didn't find the answer you were looking for?
Ask a question
Popular Resources
Fearing autism, many parents aren't vaccinating their kids. Can doctors reverse this dangerous trend?
Is a gluten-free diet right for you?
We answer your top questions about the flu vaccine.
Learn which over-the-counter medicines are safe for you and your baby
Yummy eats that will keep your child healthy and happy
Healing home remedies for common ailments