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School Issues- Kindergarten
My son is 5 years old. For the last few years we have noticed an array of different behavior problems. They have ranged from inability to focus, hyperactivity, aggression, preference of being around adults instead of children and so on. The first thought was ADHD...but after two years of working hard with him...ADHD does not seem to fit. I have researched anxiety disorders, dyslexia, oppositional defiant disorder, autism and so on. Nothing seems to fit just right.
So here is what we are currently facing...
At home my son has improved tremendously. His hyperactivity has died down and he seems more like a typical 5 year old boy. He generally listens on the first try or at least by the second. If he is tired...it could take five times or more. He is sweet...caring...affectionate...thoughtful...very attentive...overall a fun loving kid. As long as he is around adults...this is the behavior he shows. Most the comments we receive are...what a well behaved lovable boy. He shows little to no aggression...never uses bad words...is clear on what is right from wrong.
At school...he seems to be a completely different child. Since day one we have had issues. What started as a concern with him sitting quietly or participating with other children quickly developed into much more serious concerns. According to his teacher and the staff at the school my son show's aggression (hitting, kicking), he says bad words, treats kids poorly (name calling, destroying their papers), isolates himself, wont participate...it goes on and on.
We have met with the school many times...my son has been sent to the principals office countless times...he has been suspended once. We have a big meeting coming up soon to evaluate him for special ed. The teacher is stating she feels my son will fail Kindergarten because he is not academically up to standards. However, I work with my son twice a day on homework and he is academically "average" in reading/writing and advanced in mathematics and language/communication. He can relate to and understand adult concepts. His memory is outstanding...he remembers things from when he was two that even I forgot. He asks lots of questions and unlike typical children doesnt accept the basic answer...he digs deeper. My son is very aware that he is treated different at school and on the bus...he states this makes him sad. When asked if he likes school...he states he likes/misses his teacher but not the other children. The moment he walks to the school bus...his whole demeanor changes.
What I know to be true is this...my son acts very differently at home vs at school...he has always preferred adults/older children over children his own age...I have witnessed this "poor" behavior the school speaks of when he is around children of his own age or children who are more active/unruly and he does require more focused attention to stay on track and behave (not an independent worker). One last thing...I have noticed that school has greatly influenced his self confidence/worth...he has come home saying he is stupid or ugly and wants a new face. Things he heard at school.
Oh...one more thing...he does know right from wrong...he shows accurate emotions when he has done something wrong...shows remorse...guilt...sadness...
Sorry this was so long...but I am desperate for some answers. For years everyone has "guessed" at what could be the problem...we have tried hundreds of things with him...I want something concrete. I refuse to let my son fail kindergarten...he is smart...gifted I believe...socially/emotionally maybe immature...but too smart to be held back.
Help anyone...ideas....please!
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189897 tn?1441130118
    Just a quick reply because I need to do a little research into IDEA 2004 and what constitutes a disability.  I like what the school is doing and what they have done.  I'm not sure I like what the psyc has recommended, and I certainly want to look up if this is a "final decision".  
    Was there any talk at all about ADHD  in the meeting?  Was any testing of your son done by the psyc?  Were there any questionnaires sent out to parents and teachers?  Did the psyc observe your son - if so how many times and at what time of the day? In other words - what did the psyc use to base his/her opinion of your child?
   And, just because I have been in the principal role - where was the other child cut?  In the face, or fingers/hand.  Did the other child bleed?  And frankly your last two sentences does indicate a form of disability.
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Yes questionaires were filled out. By both parents...the counselor and the teacher. Two different members (one being the psychologist) at the meeting observed my son during class time. They both saw the same thing and described the same thing. This is a list of what they saw...bright child, required extra attention to stay focused, worked fine in a small group with other children, did get distracted once work was complete and nothing further to do. They used this form...where you go across...and based off of the questionaires and the observations they write in if my son had a strength or a weakness or was average. At the end they looked at the form to determine if there was a sign of a disability. The psychologist felt there was not but that he clearly had certain areas of concern...all relating to impulse, focus, organization and social skills...all behavioral. This is why she wants to implement a new program for my son. For instance...my son gets into trouble during transitions or periods of having nothing to do...she suggested that instead of free time....he have stations he goes to and keeps busy at. If more behavior problems are noticed in other classrooms (art, music, computer lab)...then he may need extra structure when in these classrooms. Then she also plans to focus in on teaching my son correct behaviors and getting him to recognize his feelings and when he is getting off track. I guess it is a combo of things. However, both the counselor and psychologist feel this is not an overnight fix...it will take time...maybe a lot of time...to fill in the areas he is deficit in. In regards to the child who got cut...it was on his finger...I dont believe it was severe...but the art teacher felt my son should have known better...he knows the rules with scissors.

Sandman...truth be known...I am not necessarily looking for a diagnosis for my son...I just want to find a program that helps him...I have thought about getting him evaluated outside the school...at this place called the TLC Learning Center...they do this in depth evaluation...5 different professionals would evaluate my son on everything...over the course of a month. Only thing...it costs 1800...insurance wont cover it.

Something the principal said to me really got me thinking...if my son is seeking attention through bad behavior...acting out...she felt I might have something to worry about with twins on the way. They will take all my attention...will he act badly towards them? He seems so excited about them...and knows they require a lot of time/attention.

Incidents like what happened with the scissors make me so sad. Because he is not a mean child...he is not an aggressive child. He really is sweet as pie and has a huge heart. So why is he acting up? Even if he didnt mean to hurt the child with the scissors...he should have listened with the child told him to stop. And when the teacher said that when children say they will tell on my son he pretty much threatens them....what??? How come she never told me this?? I was shocked at that comment!

Oh and yes ADHD was talked about. However since my son has been evaluated four time in the last 2 1/2 year...the most recent being days before he started Kindergarten...and the behavioral doctor felt at his last visit he did not have ADHD...the psychologist decided to move on from the issue. However, she did state that ADHD still seems like it could be involved...mostly because my son is impulsive....not the hyperactive part...no one felt he was hyperactive. I will say that the behavioral doctor at the last visit talked a lot about my son learning he is responsible for himself...for his actions...for his choices. Not mommy..not daddy...no he is responsible. Where do you think she was going with that?
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973741 tn?1342346373
Hi,  I feel a little stunned, to be honest.  While on one hand----  I really like the willingness to help your son that the school shows and they are really  making lots of accomadations for him . . . are they getting to the root of your son's problem?  The issues that your son have difficulty of are indicative of various delays.  My son's delay mainly showed itself through behavior.  Behaviors such as you mention, by the way.  I understand that looking for a specific diagnosis is proving difficult and who cares what it is if you find how to deal with this to make it better.  But often times to make it better----  you DO have to know what it is.  I understand that your child is smart----  and I've always wondered if that doesn't hinder a process.  My boy is very smart as well-----  and this intelligence gets a lot of focas.  Honestly, I don't care about that (okay, maybe I'm taking it for granted but . . .)----  I want to understand why he is different from every other kid he was in preschool with.  It isn't just because he is smart and bored.  These are just my thoughts on my boy here-------  Anyway, I think I would see what happens in the next 6 weeks.  If things escalate at all or if there is no improvement---  I would formally request a full evaluation-----  by a district psychologist, an occupational therapist, and a speech pathologist (just because you are doing the full evaluation and you might as well do everything).  By law, they have to do it.  And yes, I would stronly consider paying out of pocket for the Learning Center evaluation.  We've paid for many of my sons things out of pocket-----  and every penny has been worth it.  The more info you have, the better able to advocate for him. (and add is the other side adhd----  being hyper isn't involved with add).  

The comments about the boy being responsible is . . . well, I don't know.  They are telling you these are just his bad actions and not caused by anything but attention seeking.  (which I don't agree with).  They are perhaps trying to get you to see that.  I would be worried that they are setting up dismissal from the school down the road, to be honest.  I think too, there is a lot of involvement on your part with your child.  I'm the same way, don't get me wrong.  But I know that schools want a child to be independent from their parents. By the way, how do you handle it with your son when he has cut someone with scissors at school?  

And this is one of the most painful things . . . we love our children dearly.  But think of the parents of that other boy.  They are going to be livid and . . . rightly so.  Every parent has to feel like their child is going to school in a safe enviroment.  These other kids are 'threatening' to tell on him-----  well, you leave out what he is doing that they threaten to tell.  But regardless, his reaction is extreme.  I am sure you are very worried about his peer interaction overall.  We had a little girl's family complain about my son to the preschool director.  I was so upset!  My son wasn't doing physically aggressive things to her but they didn't get along and my son really bothered her.  So, I know what it is like to have another family upset with your child.  It stinks----  and it is to be taken seriously.  Know I feel your pain on that----  when my son did a knucklehead thing----  I would be flabergasted.  It seemed out of character and so over the top.
And I go back to saying that these issues with my son are in the past . . . because we addressed the underlying problem.  That is why I am so surprised they are just saying it is all for attention.  I do think that is food for thought about the babies coming.  You are going to have to be very vigilent about not letting him along with them until issues are under control. You hope that he wouldn't act out torwards them---- but you can't risk it.  

I really feel for you------  I don't know if you are relieved or upset at the meeting.  Probably a mixture of both.  No one wants to hear that their child has a suspected disorder.  Maybe their ideas will work and he will mature out of this.  I don't know.  My  kid would not have.  I just feel for you as this is so hard to handle----  you love your kid and want the best for him.  
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I am torn about the meeting.
Relieved that they did not find he had a learning disability but left feeling the underlying problem has not been resolved. It is very concerning to hear of these extreme behaviors toward other children. I would be livid if I was the parent of the child who got hurt. The behaviors are unacceptable!

But in a way...he does have a learning disability...let me put it in these terms...my son showed strengths in almost every area of academics...however his teacher still does not know if he will pass Kindergarten...because his behaviors bring him down...he is not learning at his full potential or showing his full potential. Its like he could be way up top...but his behavior is way down low...so he sits at "average".

I believe that the Special Ed program they have at this particular school is geared toward children who fall extremely behind academically. And since my son is not behind...he would not do well in this class. The counselor expressed concern that my son would regress. Now if they had a class geared toward children who are academically bright but have certain behavior problems...this might be a better place for my son.

If I had the means of finding 1800 dollars without sacrificing paying important bills...I would definitely have my son evaluated at the learning center. I really want to better understand why he displays the specific behaviors and then work to fix them.

The principal at the school does not like my son...and I mean this honestly...she picks at him...is very judgmental of him...and I respect her position...that she gets the bad end of the stick...listening to parents complain about my son's aggressive behavior...BUT she only focuses on the negative. A lot of positive things were said about my son. I truly get the feeling that she would rather my son not be at the school or be forced into the Special Ed program...even it does cause him to regress. Because this would make her life easier. It wont help my son though...cause we are not addressing the root problem. Just shuffling him around. I believe the school does not have the staff or proper resources to deal with a child like my son. They only deal with two extremes...the child who has severe learning disabilities or the child who is "normal"....there is no in between.
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973741 tn?1342346373
Difficult spot to be in when your child doesn't fit the perfect mold for either.  I agree that you son does not belong in special education classes.  Every school and state is so different.  When I was talking about special education inclusion before----  I wasn't sure if you knew what I was talking about.  Our district is large with about 7 elementary schools in it.  One has special education classes and the rest have inclusion.  Inclusion means that the kids are in mainstream classrooms with services provided to them there.  Kids with varying disabilities are in our kids classrooms.  That is when the need of an aide is decided, speech is provided, etc.  They leave the classroom for some things like occupational therapy but then they have other things that come to them in the classroom.  Another poster had mentioned something that would be one idea for your son----  to bring gifted education to him in the classroom.  

I understand completely what you mean that although he doesn't have a learning disability----  whatever his issue is will hinder him from learning.  That is scary when you are the parent of a smart child.  

That is too bad you think the principle does not like your child.  That would hurt my feelings.  That was my number one desire when my son went to kindergarten and I wasn't sure how it would go.  We had to fill out a sheet on what we wanted---  my number one thing was for his teacher to see what a great kid he is.  That is always the dilemma----  we know our kid and they ARE great. But they don't come off that way at times.  We want the world to see how great they are too.  Having the professionals involved at least try to see this is so much better.  

Does your son verbalize his emotions very well?  That was really key for my boy.  To have words to say when he recognized he was getting upset was really helpful to him.  I'd try the "how does your engine run " program at home and see if it helps.  
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The school does not like the "how does my engine run" program...they prefer a different approach. I did mention it multiple times...and was shot down.

Special Education Inclusion would be ideal!!! This is exactly what I am talking about. My brother received this when he was in elementary and middle school. It took him from problem child to complete success. How can we bring gifted education to my son in the classroom? I am tired of sitting back being quiet...I wont do it anymore...I am going to start demanding they accomodate my son.

My son does not verbalize his emotions...I bought a chart with emotion faces on it...and we will look at the chart through out the day...and talk about what emotion we are feeling. He will verbalize when he is bored...lol.

The teacher and counselor love my son. The counselor told me that my son stole her heart...she has a real fondness for him. She said he is so intriguing and genuine. The teacher told me she thinks my son is adorable and fun loving. Neither are negative...they both just want to help him move past his behavior problems and be successful. It is the principle who is very negative towards my son. She constantly says the brain controls the actions...and since my son has aggressive actions...he must have something wrong in his brain.

And yes specialmom...I wish everyone could see how great my son is...but I also can accept the reality that what he is showing them is very discouraging...

I feel so stuck...with no way to go...I just want to help him...I want answers...
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189897 tn?1441130118
    I hear you, and it is very frustrating!  But take a step back and look at where you are now compared to two months ago.
    You have a plan drawn up for your child based on his needs.  It is a good plan and should produce some results.  You have a guaranteed meeting again in 6 weeks.  If these things are not producing results,  then a 504 Assessment should be done.  Or did a 504 come out of this meeting?
    As I said, I really like their plan of action.  What is important is that it is implemented in his other classes and continues for next year.   That's why a 504 is important. Looking at the "Summary of Eligibility Criteria IDEA 2004", it essentially looks like your child's disability is not severe enough now to qualify for special ed.  It could be later if there is not improvement, or they find a discrepancy between intellectual ability and achievement.
   What you will be getting from the school is essentially what any child with an IEP would be getting, although with out some of the legal safeguards.  I know it is hard to wait for 6 more weeks - but, it is very proactive waiting.  Even if you were working with a psychologist, he/she would be making recommendations which you would be following and then reporting back the results.  
   Other thoughts:
I am a bit surprised the Anxiety issue did not come up.  I would ask his teacher, and the counselor to watch for this and record it any time they see a problem with this.
   Ya, the principal seems to be a bit of a jerk.  Hopefully, the principal will be pretty much out of the picture with what is going on.
   I can understand your concern with the scissors incident.  The reason I asked where the child was cut -  was because "on the hand" indicates to me the possibility of the other child trying to knock (or take away) the scissors and accidentally got cut in the process.  As the old saying goes, "it takes two hands to clap".  I have found out that there are many sides to this type of thing.  It may be that the child your child was across from just don't get along very well, or your child was being teased, or ....
So on the basis of this I wouldn't get too worried.  It could show a lack of impassivity control, or something else entirely.  
   I would still get the book I recommended.  There are very good measures in there that will help your child.  
  If you can, I would wait the 6 weeks.  Really work on time with your child.  With the twins approaching, that time is going to become very precious.  Maybe flip over to the ADHD forum and see what other parents are going through and doing.
   Finally, I know from personal experience what a teacher can do for a child once she/he has taken a personal interest in the child.  I think that alone is going to make a huge difference.  Until that happened, he was just a face in the crowd that got sent to the office when he screwed up.  I'm pretty sure that has now changed!  Keep working with her.  Send her Starbucks cards or sweets or something.  She is the best thing your son has got going now (although, the counselor sounds pretty good).  In fact, if there are any discipline problems see if your child can be sent to the counselor, not the principal.  And see it the teacher/counselor will talk to recess aides for the same reason.
   Hope some of this helps!  
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Great ideas! I will definitely make sure to send Starbucks cards as a thank you to the teacher and counselor. The counselor spends a lot of time with my son. She goes out of her way to get to him when she hears he might be having a behavior problem. She spends a half an hour with him at least three times a week...just building up his confidence and such. Nine times out of ten...she is the one addressing my son when he has a behavior problem/concerns...not the yucky principal.

I definitely plan to pick up that book...I dont have much time to read...are there specific chapters that are really important/good?

Thanks so much!!
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189897 tn?1441130118
    There is a ton of stuff in the book!  Fortunately the chapters in the table of contents have a lot of detail.  Some that caught my eye:  1.7 ADHD and social skills interventions; 1.8 ADHD in preschool and kindergarten; 2.1 Common triggers or antecedents to misbehavior.
    I also just got the ADD&ADHD Answer Book by Susan Ashley.  It also was highly recommended and I can see why.  It is shorter and a bit more direct.  Its probably aimed more at the parents.  While Rief's book is "How to reach and teach" and is aimed more at the classroom.
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I am having similar issues with my son. He's in kindergarten too and does much better at home.
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Soooo....an update....

The school informed me that the only change they made to my son's behavior intervention plan was regarding personal space. The counselor and psychologist will each meet with my son once a week (separate days) to work on respecting the personal space of other children/adults.

Huh??? That's it?? Are you kidding?? I dont get it...what about everything else? I mean I guess they picked the one they thought was most crucial...

I am so frustrated though!
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973741 tn?1342346373
You know, I'm really sorry.  I would be frustrated too.  Have you told them that you are frustrated at this point?  Not in a way that makes them defensive-----  but I think you as his advocate can say after week one----  hold up, not working.  (if it doesn't work, that is).  There are laws protecting your child's education.  I would inquire about a parent advocate----    I really would.  We have them here and they help navigate the system.  I was told that school's may appear to be doing things to help your child but are doing the minimal that they can.  So say they offer one service a week (an occupational therapist comes and does some work with your child), but he would really benefit from two visits a week.  A parent advocate helps make that happen.  

I would also read the material Sandman has suggested as well as anything else you can about add/adhd and sensory----  and just start implementing things at home.  Animal walks before school, thick bubble gum, specific discipline strategies that those books recommend, etc.  See if you can make a dent yourself.  Then you can tell them what works for your son by your own experience.  

Getting along with the school is important for success---  but you are in the last half of the year now and in 6 weeks you will be working your way into spring . . . I'd want to iron some of this out this year vs waiting until next.  That is just me.  

But I feel for you.  That is difficult and maybe Sandman can shed some more light on this-----  but I think I would be frustrated too.  
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Specialmom...I sent a long email describing the strategies I have implemented at home to the school counselor...she then responded with the information about working with Anthony on personal space. This is why I was so shocked...not a single word about all the other strategies I suggested.

Regardless I will continue to work with him at home...and plan on getting at least one of the books this weekend.

I so badly want to pull him out of that school (which is in his Father's district) and put him into the school in my district. The school in my district is smaller and more personal. I feel like they would be more likely to work with him. They also dont have a predisposed idea about him and neither do the kids. I am afraid if I sit back any longer...they will fail my son...

I am just sooooo frustrated....feeling like they are not doing enough....they might mean well....but I just feel like they are doing the bare minimum....or what they feel is sufficient.
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189897 tn?1441130118
   I would really advise against pulling him out this year (if that's what you mean).  He (and you) are finally starting to build  a relationship with his teacher and counselor.  To have to start that all over again would be very difficult.  The advantage of keeping him in the same school for next year is that his new teacher could communicate with his old teacher and the counselor would probably be the same.
  If you do make the change, see if there is any kind of a summer school where he would get a chance to meet kids that he would be with the following year.  Typically, his 504 or IEP will follow him to any new school.
  By the way, what did he actually wind up with a 540 (I'm guessing) or an IEP?
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All he has is a BIP (behavioral intervention plan)...that is it.
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Is he an only child?  If so him preferring adults over other children would not be that abnormal. I have been told in the past that my son looked to adults a lot to fulfill his needs.  

About the church thing, how horrible.  
I wish we could read these kid's brains!!

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Yes my son is an only child...for the moment...I have twins due within 3 months.

I due believe some of my son's reliance on adults is due to him being an only child. It would only make sense. Some of it is a lack of confidence at school.
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Yes, you do have your hands full and soon to be fuller.  

Yes, and other children can be nasty too.  I think children are not always nice to each other.  My son keeps telling me about a boy who calls everyone names.
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My son complains of kids calling him stupid and ugly. What is funny is I think they do this from jealousy. My son is above average academically and probably one of the cutest boys ever...very outgoing and funloving. However, my son doesnt tattle...and so I think they take advantage.
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I have noticed so much tattling in the classroom.  My son doesn't tattle much, in fact, he's afraid to ask his teacher for help.  
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While being in the classroom might make it to where your son will not be his "normal self" and act out when you're there, I cannot imagine a school's ability to deny you the option of observing him.  I think that is a problem.
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189897 tn?1441130118
"All he has is a BIP (behavioral intervention plan)...that is it."
I wasn't exactly sure how a BIP fits into all of this so I started researching -  Lots of really good stuff out there.  I do know that a PIP is done by the IEP team (I think).  I don't think it counts as an IEP or a 504, but it is very legally binding.  In short, I have still got a lot of reading to do.  Think I will talk to one of my special ed friends.
    Anyway, here are several excellent resources on BIP's.  I would highly recommend you start going through them.  Most also have excellent ideas for helping kids.

http://cecp.air.org/fba/default.asp

http://specialchildren.about.com/od/specialeducation/qt/behaviorplan.htm

http://www.ldonline.org/article/6180
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Sandman you are so awesome...I cant tell you how much I appreciate the help!
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189897 tn?1441130118
    Most of the reading I have done, lists the BIP as a part of an IEP.   But, it doesn't sound like that here.  You really need to know his status for followup.  I would ask the principal or counselor for clarification.  Just say that you like his BIP (it is a good starting point and well written), but you are wondering if that means he qualifies for special ed (is it a IEP) or is it like a 504?  And if it is not either one - then why not?
   If you ever decided to change schools, this could be very important.  IEP's and 504's, by law, follow you.  A plan (no matter how good it is) that is simply put into effect by a school, can be easily ignored by another school.
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I am beyond frustrated!!!!!!

First of all....my son definitely does not have an IEP...just the BIP...nothing more.

Second...I took cupcakes to my son's school yesterday (it was a surprise to make my son feel special)...I am talking with his teacher...asking how my son is doing...she tells me he is doing fine in the classroom and she is working with him on transitions. I ask how things are going meeting with the counselor and psychologist...she says what do you mean...I explained I was told they would each be meeting with him once a week...she said noone has met with him at all...what??? I am far too pregnant and hormonal...I almost lost it...not with the teacher...but just with the situation...I asked her what am I suppose to do...I know my son needs better resources then what he is receiving...she said your right...but with a bad economy and budget cutbacks...there are no resources available. UGH AHHHHH GRRRRR!!! Are you kidding? No wonder the principle kept pushing for my son to be in special ed...that was her easy quick fix.

I was so mad yesterday...thought I would go into labor...then I just got sad...for my son. My fiance is fed up...he really wants to put my son in Montessori or Private school...I fear the monthly cost of these schools...but he said he doesnt care anymore...we have to do what is best for my son.

Please any other suggestions? Should we look into Montessori or Private schools? Do you think this would benefit my son?
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it is frustrating and it takes FOREVER to get anything done.  there are only so many personnel to cover all the kids having "issues".
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973741 tn?1342346373
Well, first there was good news in your post . . . his teacher says he is doing fine in the classroom . .. That IS Good!!!!  So, I would be pleased to hear that part anyway.  I think I would call the principal about it . . . and you've discovered the problem of not having an IEP.  They are required to follow everything in an IEP by law . . . if you don't have one, then they just do what they can.  I guess we all need to vote for our school levies, right?  We voted for our most recent one but it didn't pass----  hence there were cuts.  I think who your Govenor is matters too----  I've written ours as he cut funding to such programs in our state.  Anyway, that is reality.  I guess I would just continue to be the squeaky wheel looking to get that oil.  But dont lose sight of the fact that she said he was doing fine.  

As far as private schools----  well, they are not great for kids way far out of the average.  They don't have to abide by "no child left behind" and hence, do not accomadate high maintence students.  I had a really good friend that is a teacher that I was discussing things about my son with----  It was at a time in which I was struggling with it all and I spoke of putting him in private schools---  anyway, she said NO.  You need any child with behavior issues in a public school as that is where they are handled the best.  The private school may do some extra things if they feel like it, but don't have to.  Puts you in a much weaker position to deal with things.  And those schools have tighter budgets than the public schools . . . and less resources to pull from.  I like the Montessori concept . . . but my son does much better with routine and structure.  

I would follow up on the info Sandman gave you and call the principal.  The principal is a pill to deal with it sounds---------  but you need them to take the committments they make to you seriously.  If you don't want to call the principal, at least call the school counselor.  Good luck----------  hoping for the best for you and your son.
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189897 tn?1441130118
   You said,  "No wonder the principle kept pushing for my son to be in special ed...that was her easy quick fix." Its not a quick and easy fix - all the other things are quick, probably none of them easy.  Its too bad that he didn't qualify for special ed.  However, kids with ADHD and other behavioral issues usually don't (which I think is stupid).  
     Next thought is that it has only been about one week since you gave us the update on Jan. 12.  and I couldn't find a place where weekly visits to counselor by your son were mentioned.  You did say in that post that you would have weekly meetings with the counselor.  Makes me wonder if you ever got a written plan from them?  This is why a 504 is important - because it is a written plan with legal implications.
The point is that he should be qualifying for a 504.  The following is from -                        http://www.ldonline.org/article/6108  .  
Its a great article and well worth reading.
   "Although it is impossible to specify all situations in which children should be referred for Section 504 and ADA services, there are several situations that should result in automatic consideration of a student for Section 504 and ADA services. These include the following (Council of Administrators of Special Education, n.d.):

    * when a student is referred for IDEA services but the decision is to not evaluate;
    * when a student is evaluated for IDEA services but is determined to be not eligible;
    * when a student is suspected of having any disability;
    * when a student continues to display behavior problems;
    * when a student has a major health problem;
    * when a student is expelled or suspended;
    * when a student seems to be having problems that cannot be explained;
    * When a parent requests consideration for Section 504 and the ADA services"

    I am not sure that his teacher is exactly aware of what is doing on.  So I think his counselor is the best place to start.  What you want to do is ask if the BIP is a 504 and if not why?  Based on the above he should qualify.  Tell her you want that process started!
    And yes, I think that there is and recently has been a lot of good news about your son.  It sounds like there are communication problems about what is going to happen.  Outside of the fact that these things take time, I think that if you know exactly what is going to happen - you will be able to make better decisions.
  I agree with Specialmom completely.  Private schools usually don't have the resources  to work (and many times won't even touch) with special needs kids. Your money could be much more wisely spent on your child.
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I have an e-mail from the school counselor stating that the counselor and psychologist would each be meeting weekly with my son. In addition, the teacher stated the psychologist was suppose to come last Friday but did not show up. I am clear on what they told me...it is in writing...in my email box. They are not following through with it.

I am going to e-mail his counselor and ask about the 504.

I will say that YES good things have happened for my son...however...his teacher just told me Tuesday she had to pretty much fail him in reading/writing because he would not demonstrate that he knew the necessary information...even though at home he easily knows the required information. She herself told me that my son needs more resources and is not getting them. So the teacher is trying to find alternatives...I just feel the whole thing is ridiculous.
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973741 tn?1342346373
That is where I am confused . . . I thought that they said he was being failed for behavior and that academically he was fine.  I thought they said he was above his grade level for academics . . . that is confusing.  Even one on one, he is refusing to show them his performance level?  That would be very frustrating to me.  

I just don't understand where they are coming from suggesting that nothing is wrong but his desire for attention.  Does not make sense to me.

I think you are doing the right thing in asking for the 504.  If they hold him back for a year---- would it give him a better start?  Sometimes it can be a good thing.  (remind me when his birthday is . . . I can't recall).  But I can see where you are distrustful of the whole situation.  Hard to know where to turn------  have you asked about the parent advocate?  Arrrggg.  sounds very stressful.
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They dont make any sense this stupid school. One minute they are acting like the world is coming to an end...and things are so severe. The next they are brushing it off like nothing. The teacher evaluated each child individually but in the classroom while the other kids were doing activities. Ummm DUH of course he could careless about his least favorite thing...reading/writing...he just wants to be done and go play. Had she taken him out of the classroom and evaluated in a quiet area...she would have seen he knows everything.

His teacher flat out said...he needs more resources...he needs someone to be working with him...this is how he responds the best...but the resources are not available.

I am so done...I feel like I keep hitting a brick wall!
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973741 tn?1342346373
Very frustrating, but would you say that the things they are doing behaviorally are helping?  That at least is a step in the right direction.

I think part of the problem is that he is unable to attend when in the classroom . . . that this is part of the evaluation . . . if he can't do it when the other kids are there-----  well, that is school.  ALL of the kids want to run off and play . . . but got through the evaluation.  Your son needs to be able to do this as well unless there is a documented reason he can not.  Then his IEP or 504 plan would have the alternative plan.  So Sandman is right, you need to ask for this.  I think all kids would like to have a one on one aide to teach them . . . my son started off the school year according to his teacher requesting her attention a lot.  He does do better with one on one too.  But he has to learn to work in the confines of a classroom and become an independent learner.  Aides are helpful but you realize that they are assigned a child but work with all children in the class as well as the teacher does, right?  It is my understanding in our school that they will help with a child without declaring which child it is as they are to maintain confidentiality.  Unless a child has a physical handicap that everyone sees, there are times in which people are only guessing which student the aide is there for.  This is better for the child.  

So I totally hear your frustration and understand it, but I think requesting a more formal plan and keeping expectations realistic will help.  just my thoughts here----  and I know that you are feeling anger and panic as he might be held back.  But if it will ultimately help him, that is something to think about.  Schools don't like to hold kids back, there has to be valid reasons.  
I hope you get a good response to your request for the 504 plan and please ask about a parent advocate to help you navigate through.  good luck

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189897 tn?1441130118
I can understand your feeling.  Think how his teacher must be feeling.  To her, the wall has got to be even more frustrating.  She knows he needs help and can't provide the help he needs - its like watching a child drown in front of you.  I've been there.  Worse thing is she sees it every single day.

Good thing is that she knows he needs the extra help.  Big difference from the teacher that says he is just lazy.  The fact she feels this way can lead to good things.  One thought I had was that for a child to be in special ed, there must be a discrepancy between achievement and ability.  I don't know if she is experienced enough to have figured this out - but its always possible that she is looking for a way to get him more help, and you need test results to do that.

Main thing is that these things don't happen overnight (sad to say).  You have done a great job getting things moving.  Do find out about the 504, its very important.  I think you have a great resource in this teacher.  Do try and work with her.  Realize she is the messenger, not the person in charge.    If you can - and I know its hard with all that is going on around you - try and relax a bit.  Enjoy your son.  Keep doing those good things at home for him.  Something is happening to make the noticeable  improvements at school, and home has got to be a part of that.   Realize that his teacher is probably also frustrated.  Try and support her.   Do something for yourself, you deserve it.  
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I have a 5 year old son who jsut recently started acting up in school as well. He was perfect until xmas break and when he got back he started acting up. He would yell at the other kids when they answered the questions before him. He would kick his chair or throw his papers on the floor if he didnt get his way. I dont know why he acts like this there. I have seen how his behavior changes when we reach school grounds and are about to walk into the gate, its like he gets mad. it is a full kinder class room with 22 kids and he is NOT the only boy who acts up. there is a 7 year old that was held back 2 times becuase of his behavior and he seems to rile up the other kids. they all pick on each other by poking each others heads, faces or hitting each other with their folders and that just sets the kid who got hit off. ive been to the principle and my husband even volunteered in the class a few times but nothing is working. we took him to the dr and she says he is healthy and does not have ADD. he is a sweetheart who doestn say bad words or do those things at home. i dont understand why it is how it is and i dont want him to fail out kinder being there's only one month left. I just got a call from my husband today saying he just picked him up and today was one of the worst days. hitting yelling crying. they took him inot other class rooms and even the principles office. im thinking maybe he needs to change schools. i dont know what to do
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My son was having a lot of these same issues at school.  Now we have had to move him into a class with others who have issues where he will be more supported.  Personaly I think the 7 year old who is in the classroom really needs a LOT of evaluation, why does he keep failing and why is he so disruptive.  

to me it sounds like there is poor classroom management going on.

Also, I think once a child gets set into a pattern of negativity, it can be hard to break.  

I would set up a mtg with the teacher and if you think it would help bring in the principal.

I took my son also to a child psychiatrist, he does not think my son is ADD/ADHD.  I also took my son to see an OT and they say he has sensory processing disorder and will start undergoing OT treatmeents.  

Also, if you are picking him up early when they call you, this sets up a bad situation too.  The child will act up to get sent home and believe me it will only get worse and worse.  

How is your son doing academically?

Good luck, and keep us updated.  You might want to post a separate post as this one is really long.
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I understand completely what youre going through, I have these exact feelings towards my 7 year old daughter. She drives me crazy, doesnt listen, acts up in school, on the school bus, at relatives homes. She lies constantly about EVERYTHING, urinates/deficates on herself randomly, steals, etc. I'm at my wits end, i've spanked and punished to no avail. I always threaten to withhold presents on birthdays, christmas, but I never follow through. I'll end up throwing her a birthday party and getting her exactly what she wants for Christmas. I dont specifically praise her when shes good, but we randomly go to the store and i'll let her pick out toys, we go to the movies, festivals, museums, chuck e cheese etc. These are things that we dont do when shes really been acting up. At times I also feel like doing the adoption thing because it gets to the point where im SO stressd from her behavior, I feel like its affecting my health and sanity. Life is too short to be stressed out constantly.
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HI specialmom, i have read so many of your comments it seems like im going through similar with my 4 year old son. he has showed been diagnosed with add / od / cd. That was from his GP and Specialist. however i am interested to know about the Sensory disorder. I took him to an OT and she seemed to think this is what he had. she is on holidays for a month. What is the disorder and how can i help my son? what did you do to improve things? He starts school next February and my husband and i are very nervous about this?

Thanks Aussie Mum
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973741 tn?1342346373
Hi there.  I was here today and caught your post.  They've started a sensory integration disorder forum here at med help recently (that I am very excited about!!)  and I'd be happy to answer any questions about sensory for you.  Look to the right of this page and you will see 'related communities'  Open the box and you'll see sensory integration disorder.  You can go there and maybe tell me a little about your son!  That would be helpful for me to help you.

my own son was diagnosed with sensory when he was 4 and I know full well the worries of impending school.  If it helps at all, my son is now 8 and going into the 3rd grade and doing terrific.  You can really help a child with sensory.  
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This sounds like my son.  He has a sensory processing disorder and has made great gains with occupational therapy.  
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973741 tn?1342346373
Hi there and welcome to med help.  Wanted to tell you about the sensory integration forum here at med help.  My son also has sensory and love to have other people to discuss things with.  here is the link:

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/Sensory-Integration-Disorder-SID/show/1396?controller=forums&action=show&id=1396&camp=msc

Or you can find it in the "related communities" section at the right of this page.  thanks and hope you join us!
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Children are not in the age of academic until age 7. It is a waste of their precious time. To try and force a child under 6 or 7 before they are ready to sit still and do math, reading, learning a letter, etc and be given something new to learn everyday, as the public school system dictates, is entirely against our human psychological development for learning.

I don't blame these children for acting out and having anxiety about all of this....

I would highly recommend researching other educational systems. I'm a huge follower of Rudolph Steiner and Waldorf education methods, but there are many other methods that might engage your child specifically and fulfill what he is needing: Waldorf, Montessouri, Unschooling, and many others....

I always ask myself with my own child or my students in my preschool: "what am I doing or the parents doing that is not serving this child?"

Kim John Payne, Barbara Schumaker "It's OK Not TO SHare" , and Alfie Kohn are some wonderful authors and experts on child psychology and parenting methods that are so helpful...

Best of wishes to you and your child..
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973741 tn?1342346373
peace, actually kids start kindergarten at 5 years with a few 6 year olds.  It has been fine for both of my children entering kindergarten at 5.  Both learned to read, did math, etc.  Math usually includes things like rolling dice and adding up the numbers.  Most  kindergarten classes aren't set up where there are desks and things like that.  It seems like you haven't been in a classroom either in a long time or at all.

By first grade when kids are 6 to 7, most sit just fine at their tables and desks.  I have a child with sensory integration disorder and he thrives in a controlled classroom ---  much better than the loosey goosey style you see at Montessori schools.  Routine is very helpful for some kids and structure is really wonderful as well.  

We had issues in preschool--------  but traditional primary school has been fantastic for both of my kids.  Both thriving and doing well after a hard preschool experience.  

So readers, do not feel because your child has issues in preschool that you have to spend gobs of money for private schools.  good luck
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480448 tn?1426952138
Well said SM!

I totally disagree that children are not at an "academic learning age" until 7.  In the right setting, with brief periods of instruction, young children learn wonderfully.  I was truly astounded and amazed at the learning my son did in preschool.  Children start learning from birth.  My son is eight and I'd say that the majority of the BASIC skills he's learned (math, reading, writing) happened in pre-K and kindergarten.

Also, let's face it, there are good schools and bad schools out there, both public and private.  It's important for parents to do THEIR homework about their local schools to choose what THEY feel is best for their child, which is going to vary from child to child tremendously.

I just think it's painting with a broad brush to discount all public schools.  
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First of all, I am a teacher with experience in grades K-3, and the first thing I have to ask is, why would you want a 504 for a child in Kindergarten?  That is way too soon.  Furthermore, the teacher is correct: if all students are being assessed and your child does not respond appropriately to the questions, that's a problem.  Teachers do NOT like tests at all, and we are forced to administer them by the higher-ups.  They are the ones who decide HOW and WHEN these assessments will be administered.  Furthermore, I highly doubt that anyone has called your son "stupid," which seems an odd choice of words for a young child; usually that is an unacceptable word at the age of five.  However, if he prefers the company of adults, he may have picked up a few terms from them.  This does not imply any wrong-doing; it is just a fact that some words adults use are not heard in the everyday vernacular of very young child.
Moreover, we are talking about public school.  While everyone is entitled to a free education, you get what you pay for, and special needs are not always handled in the most effective way when the issues are related to UNCOMMON disabilities.  Most of the resources are spent on assessments, paperwork, and compliance with laws.  And yes, your child is not the only one in the class; there are probably 20 more children at least  who are also supposed to meet the expectations, and most do.  I would advise you go the private route and pay for top-quality specialists.  I gave up trying to secure speech services for my own son; uphill battle for less-than-stellar therapy was my final thought. So I have been on both ends of the deal, as a parent and as a teacher.  Good luck
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School systems are not in the business of diagnosing.  I work in the number one school system in the nation, MCPS, and we are NOT allowed to make diagnoses besides ADHD and Dyslexia.  That is what other professionals are for.
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973741 tn?1342346373
I think what sandman is referring to is that a good teacher with lots of experience can recognize when certain issues are going on and what they may be related to.  They then can make a recommendation that is often dead on accurate.  But of course, no teacher is to diagnose a child EVEN add/adhd and dyslexia.  A school psychologist can also observe upon a teacher's request for helping to discern what is going on.  

Our school system is rated excellent and is nationally ranked as well.  While in my son's first classroom, I hear the teacher call a boy who has special needs an idiot.  I reported it.  I was so disgusted by that and I heard it with my own two ears.  She was reprimanded and moved to a higher grade although I'm not sure ANY child should have a teacher that can reach that level of frustration with a child and especially one who struggles.

I did actually go the private route in seeking occupational therapy for my son with sensory integration disorder.  But, my husband and I are well enough off that we could do it at 150 bucks out of pocket a week.  There are families that simply can not afford that.  My son's 504 plan was placed at the end of 4th grade.  I was glad to get it. I wasn't fighting for it but will say that I had asked IN KINDERGARTEN and was told no.  So, my son said things like "I'm dumb", "I get in trouble because I can't sit still and the kids hate me", blah blah blah because of his early experience in the classroom with out an 504 plan that made some minor accommodations such as peripheral seating in the room so he could stand when needed, etc.  My son actually has tested gifted at this point and has had nothing but A's, so he never was dumb but had some struggles in classroom dynamics.  Took a long time to undo this early perception he had of himself.  

So, I'm not so sure that kindergarten is too early for a 504 plan.  

Kids are all different and teaching isn't an easy job.  Lots of dynamics play into scenarios so that no absolutes can be drawn.  Luck to all parents who struggle with their kids.  
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189897 tn?1441130118
Wow!  This post goes back a long time.   I really wonder how ANSO4 and her little guy did?
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973741 tn?1342346373
I know right?  I do wish people would come back and update us!!
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Hi,

Can you help me by listing some of the sensory processing activities please?
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973741 tn?1342346373
I'm always happy to help in this area.  What helps me to know what kinds of activities that are needed is a little information about your child.  
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973741 tn?1342346373
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189897 tn?1441130118
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