Two four year olds exploring with putting their penis' on each other bottoms

On Thanksgiving my 12 year old daughter overheard my four year old son saying to his four year old male nephew "let me put my penis in your butt" while playing in the bedroom along with my two year old son. My daughter came to the kitchen and told me immediately and I went into the room to find both four year olds with their pants down and my two year old with no pants nor his diaper on. They were scrambling to pull up their pants. My sister and I seperated them to talk with them about what they were doing. After all talks it was determined that it was my nephew's idea to remove their pants, my son's idea as to where to "put their penis' " and all of them had sniffed each other's penis'. Both older boys swear that they did not get the idea from anyone and that my four year old came up with it. It was a "game". I have went down every possible way to ask carefully that nothing has ever happened to him at the hands of anyone. It seems clear that it was just exploration but I am concerned at where he got the idea of where to put his penis.
My four year old has been pretty obsessed with his bottom. Bending over to pass gas or pretending to be peeing on stuff  is a fun pasttime for him even though it is discoraged. He has touched his bottom and smelled it or just pretended to put toys up his anus. Also saying "butt", "poop", "penis" or any of those words are all good fun for him and his brother.
Today I was watching the same nephew as the Thanksgiving incident and it happened again only this time they both actually put their penis' ON each other's bottoms. They were alone for maybe five minutes. When asked what happened my son asked me "how much did you see?". I told him I saw everything but wanted to hear from him what he was doing. He said told me that it was his idea and he just wanted to do it. I again asked him if anyone had ever tried to "play a game" like that with him or if anyone had touched him, asked him to keep secrets etc. Again the answer was no but this time he did say that the neighbor boy (age 7) pulled down his own pants and told him to touch him with his foot.
I seperated the boys, called my sister and ended up having grandma come to pick up my nephew. We told them that they had been told before what was appropriate and that they were told not to do that again so they could not play together if they could not follow the rules. They were not being punished for what they did rather for not following the rules.
My sister and brother-in-law are insistant that something has been done to my son. While I am very concerned with his behavior, after talking to him I do not feel that this is the case. My brother-in-law does not want them around each other anymore and wishes to file charges against my son so that the problem will be investigated. I have called my pediatrician and am awaiting a call back.
A little about my family dynamic:
My husband and I have been apart for almost two years. He immediately got a new girlfriend with three kids ages 13 (girl) , 8 and 6 (both boys). When I told my husband about Thanksgiving he was not concerned and said that his GF's boys had done stuff like that to each other such as drawing circles around each other's buttholes, playing doctor, touching and "normal" stuff like that. My four year old says that thos boys have not done anything to him.
My neighbor is my babysitter. She is the parent of the 7 year old who asked my son to touch him with his foot. My boys are not over there very often, maybe twice a month for a few hours. Not gonna happen anymore.
They do not go to daycare. Only my sister and my mother watches them outside of the neighbor.
To my knowledge they have never seen any sexually explicit things nor have they walked in on any private bedroom time at their father's house (I do plan to ask him when he comes for them tomorrow).
Any advice? Any suggestions? Any thoughts? All would be appreciated. Thank you.

[Carolina2806]

I'm sorry to hear that your brother-in-law wants to file charges; I think that is a bit extreme. I know this must be a stressful time for you.  I don't really have any advice for you, but your post sounded like you are searching for answers and dealing with a lot right now.  Your son might just be innocently exploring things. Or maybe something did happen to him, but he is afraid to tell you.  Whatever it is, it will come out in time.  I do hope that your brother-in-law changes his mind.
Good luck to you.

[savik]

I think filing charges is inappropriate because your son did not mean to hurt the other boy. And he is just a boy.  He has seen something or has been abused.  I think Teko is right about taking him to a doctor to see if he has been abused.

[kadkee]

I do not think that you son is the only one to blame. You stated that it was the nephews idea about the pulling down the pants, but your sons as to where to put them. In this case your nephew is just as much to blame as your son not saying anything bad I just think that filing charges would be a little outragous. Also I wanted to let you know that this has happened with my oldest son. He is now 3 but this happen while he was two. Him and my cousins 2 year old son where at my house playing one day and they are really hipped up boys if they are quite for even a second something is up. Anyway, we had noticed that it was all quite in my sons room so my husband and I decided we would supprise them thinging to catch them writing on walls or what ever. Anyways much to my supprise we walk in to them both sitting on the closet floor with each others hands on each others penises. My husband was embrassed and speechless as to what to say and I screamed in shock. My cousin came running in to see what was wrong and she snatched her son up and said I can not believe you (talking to her son) and took him to the front room and yelled at him and started whipping him. My husband and I thought that was crazy so I took my son and sat him down and asked him why. He told me that Ashton wanted to (the other boy). I said did he say why and my son said no. I went and told my cousin what my son told me and she asked her son. He said that his daddy made him put his in his mouth and she started to cry and held him really close. That same moment the police where at his door arresting him. The moral of the story is do not punish the child (either of them) until the whole story is told and you are down at the bottom of it all. Since then my son has had issues with his behavior. I have talk to his docter about this and he just told me that he may be able to forget it if it still progrees then counsiling will be needed. So far that has almost came to a stop now his anger problem is out of control. I feel this has nothing to do with each other, Good luck.

[ethan452]

I can't believe that happened.  That is unreal. I'm glad they got the guy for doing that.
RMS123 I think your son should see someone because you never know...

[momagain59]

I would bet that at least one of these children has been touched sexually by someone. My first suspects would be your x's girlfriends sons. It is not normal to draw circles around anyones anus. What about your X? Could he have done anything like this to your son and those other boys? He really seems like it is nothing to him. This doesn't seem like a normal response from a man.

My great nephew came over angry one day when I was watching him. His Mom told me that she had caught him and his sister messing around and he was mad. I asked him, "Why are you so angry?" and his response floored me. He said, "I don't see why we got in trouble and Don (Mom's boyfriend) didn't." He continued to talk and told me how Don was the one that taught him the game (pee pee in the butt game) and he should be in trouble too. Well I responded as I should have and that boyfriend is gone.

I would get your son in therapy asap. In order to be able to protect your son, you may need a therapist to testify in court for you someday. Sometimes things may seem so innocent but until you find out all of the details you really can't tell.

[FreddyJay]

I know this is long but I'm a boy and I openly say that I started masturbating at 5, as unusual as it may sound. I wanted to do the same weird stuff your son and all wanted to do, and realized round 12 years old that I was gay. Your son/nephew might be gay. I'm just saying what I think from experience. Being obsessed with doing stuff with boys proves to my eyes his homosexuality. Homosexual boys are much more sexually active than the heterosexual type, and begin sexual intercourse at young ages. If your son is gay, this is normal. Obviously you don't know whether he is or not. Distance him from his nephew, or at least don't leave them alone anymore. Exploring isn't wrong as long as they both consent, don't go too far and aren't part of the same family, and as long as it doesn't turn sexual. All kids are going to explore at some point, at one age or another. As they say, the sooner the better BUT I do not say you should let your son do stuff like that. I turned bisexual then heterosexual around this time, so maybe your son's exploring and all will become simply a temporary stage? Only time and your observation can tell.

[Tizabby33]

I can't believe so many children are being abused nd acting out in these sexual manners. My 8 year old brother was playing yesterday with the neighbors who live downstairs from him nd another neighbor caught them in the ally with their pants down. After talking to my little brother ( who is only eight ) turns out that the oldest boy forced my brothers pants down as well as his own little brother and was putting his penis inside their rectums. When I asked my little brother about it he said he didn't want to do it but that the other boy pulled his pants down anyway nd put his penis inside him. My brother told me that he hurt him nd that he made him bleed so my mom called the police after notifying the mother of the other two boys. The police got the name of the boy who was basically "RAPING" my brother nd his own brother. I'm still in shock and I think this is rape. Just take him in and find out if he was sexually abused, then talk with him calmly about the situation. Just figure out what's going on and what happened as well as how it happened to him. You may need to press charges on someone and take them to court. I made my mom do the right thing and call the police to tell them about the situation, maybe you should too. It's rough to think something happened to these kids and not knowing what's really going on to them and where. Investigate it, that's what I think you should do. Good luck

[chefmaster189]

My son done that for a wile and he was adement that no one did anything all I said was for to tell me any secrets then he said secrets are keeped safe so I said I will keep it safe that when he started to cry and then explained to me that a boy in his school had touched him

He was seven at the time he is now 12 and fully over the put the penis transition hopefully this helps

[MrWhit]

This type of behavior IS within the boundaries of "normal" 4 year old boy
behavior, but JUST BARELY.  Boys asking to see each others penises is so
minor (and common) that it's not worth worrying about.  But the "penis in butt"
stuff would personally make ME tell them that they can't play together any
more unless YOU or another responsible adult are in the room with them.


Seeing as they're roughly the same age and everything was willing, filing
charges against anyone is RIDICULOUS.  It sounds to me like you are
being cautious without freaking out on anyone, which is EXACTLY what is
needed in situations like this.

[specialmom]

Child upon child molestation is sadly common when one of the kids has been molested themselves.  A parent's duty is to investigate what has happened in their child o what they saw.  I would explore what prompted this behavior and I'd do so with a child psychologist.  And I'd begin to look at other's in a children's life if they exhibit this type of behaivor with a play mate. good luck

[nikkitrueblue]

My 7 year old 14 days ago was in the restroom with another boy from his special needs class. Both boys have ADHD. My son pulled the boys pants down and according to the school my son is accused of trying to put his penis in the boys butt. My son admits to pulling the boys pants down but says and has been consistent with his story even to the CPS investigator that he did not try to put his penis into the other boys butt. A 3rd grade boy-a boy who has many times in the past bullied my son, told the principal that my son had a "hard on" which according to the pediatrician a boy his age would only have enough blood flow for urinary function. My son admits to shoving the other boy and breaking his necklace but my son states that the boy said ugly things. Since my son's suspension-whereas the other boy was not suspended-we've gotten prank calls-even kids calling and screaming "******" and other horrible names. My son does not understand sex. He does not really understand why he did what he did other than it was something he saw on a game and of course the game was called the butt rape game that he clicked through an affiliate site on cartoon network. My son is in 2nd grade and cannot read. He never even got an IEP last year until the end of the year even though all last year he struggled and was sent home left and right. 11 suspensions. None of those were for anything sexual. I don't even know how to explain it other than to tell him it was wrong and inappropriate. My son is a good boy-not an angel but a good boy. We have an expulsion meeting Monday the 8th and I just don't know what to do. I really believe this was an isolated incident that would never happen again. He's never been abused and because of his ADHD there are only a few people that can take care of him in my stead and both of those are his aunt and my sister. He's never done anything like this. He's played with all sorts of children and never been a danger to anyone. I don't know what to do. I know if they expel him its only going to make his shame and scorn worse.

[camille752]

My son is 7 years old too and also has ADHD.  He had 2 incidents at school where he showed a couple girls his penis.  After many talks with the principal and teacher they are going to work with him so it doesnt happen again? If he gets expelled where will he go to school?

[Ecwjv123]

I can't believe everyone is going directly to abuse and sexual preference. They are young kids. They do not know what they are doing. They do not think of it the same way an adult does. They know it feels good to them and they are exploring. You need to help them and talk to them about it. Tell them it is ok to touch themselves it private and that they can come to you and ask you questions about it. Do not shame your child for being curious. Obviously you have to ask questions to make sure they have not been abused but if you do your homework and research this behaviour it is NORMAL.  All kids do it. Educate your children in appropriate behaviour and they will eventually get it. It might take a few times but they will know soon that it is something you do in private and not for other people to see or do. If you scare them then when something goes happen they won't tell you. Be careful and treat your child with respect. Remember they do not understand what the implications are to them they are exploring it is not sexual to them. It is only sexual to an adult.

[specialmom]

Certain things are normal.  Inserting objects into the rectum is outside of normal and warrents concern and investigation.