What are normal child sexual behaviors?

[momfor4]

Two recent events involving our nearly 9 year old boy.  In one instance, he convinced a 4 year old girl (not a relative, but rather the daughter of a family friend), to cuddle in a sleeping bag with him, and to kiss, including french kissing.  The little girl thought it was a game, and later told her mom about it.  In the other instance (within a week or two before or after), he concocted a guessing game of some type, which he played with a 5 y.o. boy.  The little boy "lost", and as loser, my son made him put his mouth on my son's penis.  My son then sucked on the other boy's penis.  6-8 weeks went by before the 5 y.o. casually mentioned it to his mother, who talked with me about it.  Neither of the children were upset when telling their mother, but rather casual.  Other background info:  all children involved, my son included, are probably a bit immature for their age.  All are from highly educated families, with married parents, at least one of whom stays home.  All come from happy homes with relatively relaxed sexual attitudes.  Our son lied for a very long time before admitting the behavior when confronted.  States he doesn't know why he did it.  He does not have a good understanding of the "birds and the bees" yet, and his homeschooled so does not have a great deal of interaction with public school kids who have more info that he has.  We are concerned that he lacks a conscience, as well as that he is exhibiting abnormal sexual behaviors.  He seems quite comfortable with lying.  What do we do now?  

[JadeLee42]

I can tell you straight up that it's learned behavior.  He's either seen it from somewhere or someone did that to him whether another kid or adult and he's practicing it on others.  Is he learning this from being molested?  Is he being exposed to porn?

You need to shame the behavior, and tell him it's wrong and we don't do things like that.  And if he did it again, there will be consequences.  This can grow up into a huge problem with lawsuits and rape later on if you don't deal with it.  They probably just brushed it off as kids playing but it's serious.  And you need to treat it as something serious and wrong, so that the child can register in their heads that it's wrong and they shouldn't do it.

Also find out where he saw this from.  Did he learn it by watching mommy and daddy or someone else?

[5NEENEE4]

I whole-heartedly agree with you. The parents of all children involved should not take this situation lightly. I believe this young boy's sexual behavior has placed a mark on the other children's memory, which could last for a lifetime. Usually children who victimize other children sexually are victims of the same situation. Although the mother paints a picture of a "flawless" family environment or village of friends and immediate family, I think she needs to seriously reconsider who she and her husband so freely allows to spend alone time with her son. Often, we later find that the perpetrator(s) are those we least expected. Also, it could be the young boy was exposed porn, TV movies, social media etc., that has arroysed his curiosity and provoked this inappropriate behavior. Nevertheless, his sexual desires are awakens too soon and could become out of control now/later in life.

[5NEENEE4]

The meaningless 's in some way appeared in my post. Please disregard the errors. Thanks

[sdgdgs]

Get Help. No kid should be showing sexual behaviors like this, unless he is watching adult like movies/shows but still he shouldn't be showing it like this I urge you talk to him and explain to him the  consequences

[jeanie223]

I respond as a mom of 7 yo and 5 yo daughters, and as an elementary school teacher. Sexual balance and curiosity in young children is much different than acting it out. Socioeconomic and educational factors of the parents mean squat to me, except to reinforce that the more educated you are, the more I say - they should know better. The open relaxed attitude toward sex and sexuality in our culture and society has gone way too far. Private parts were once called that for a reason.
When you say " curiosity followed" -it strikes a denial chord with me. By 9, they should be "educated" meaning age approprite education -names for parts, reproductive info, etc etc..AND what is appropriate and expected  behavior and discussion within the home, and outside the home as far as parts are concerned.  But to take 'curiosity" of body parts to a licking/sucking degree is highly unusual. That behavior is learned, not instinctual.  And please - why send a child to a family with "nudist" children? Can we all begin as parents to deal with our kids as kids for a change, and not so "liberal" about all of this? I dont want to be preachy, but please get an evaluation, and screen the friends, and their families. And these days - civil suits are a concern for this behavior. I am pretty easy going, but I draw the line if someone's child sexually advances one of my my young daughters. Their parent would be paying for my daughter's psychological coumseling and any realated social and educational problems for a very long time. I dont care of she told me in a calm relaxed way or not. She is a child, and to think calm and relaxed is a sign she's ok with it is nuts. Kids dont/cant make sense of it, nor the consequences short and long term. Perhaps they were calm in their reporting as to down play it, to not get in trouble? who knows. And a big warning sign to me - you said they were all "immature, and innocent" yet yr son "lied for a long time" when confronted about it. This tells me he KNEW it was wrong. And this simply does not qualify as innocent behavior. And perhaps parents need to be "relaxed" in their own sexuality, but a it more strict when it comes to what is acceptable speech and behavior with CHILDREN. What's next? Lets all smoke some pot, have a little wine to wind down, and get naked with our kids? Sorry if it sounds harsh and judgemental - but I purposely let you have it as a sort of wake up call for you, hoping you will STOP down playing it even a little bit. If this was my daughter - your family would have many more problems than you do now. Be thankful this didnt happen, and get yr son the help he needs, before it does. "De Nile" will only get you through Egypt. Please get an immediate and thourough  psych eval. No more tears. Get up, and help your son.

[Uncollectedkid]

Well, seems I'm a little late lmao but just letting you know a concious or morals isn't something you're born with it's honestly (just laying down the facts here) something  you've either been brainwashed into believing or what you decide to do and not do based on your own emotions, so if you're saying your kid is bad because he likes feeling good I guess that would mean you conceiving the kid also made you loose all mortality. Honestly it just looked like you needed to sexually educate your kid, ( and by that I also mean telling them about consent and how they're too legally too young to do so until around 16ish depending on what state you live in) besides the kid himself unknowingly sexually interacting with other minnors who could not really concent he did nothing wrong here

[Atm142]

Look I know this is shocking especially for women because I just don't think they have the same feelings men do when they were children.

It is not necessarily learned behavior. When we are pre pubescent males rubbing our penis on things feels good and we may not even comprehend what we are doing is inherently sexual, we just know it feels good and through experimentation trying the mouth. Aka 'warm feels amazing! Wet feels great too! Hmm what is warm and wet?'

Lying is just a part of growing up so don't try to put any adult mental disorders on the poor child, in fact being able to lie shows advanced intelligence and creativity for someone his age.

But he's your child and you want him to be safe and happy right? Heres what you do:

Approach your child in a relaxed loving manner and ask him to be honest with you and you promise he's not in trouble or did something wrong you just want to learn more about him and now that he's older have a truthful adult conversation.

#1 do not under any circumstances make him feel guilty, ashamed or grossed out for what he did. Remember this could simply be intelligent creative experimentation on his part. Be positive friendly and the fantastic empathetic mother you are. If he senses you don't like something he did he will hide it, this is extra scary if abuse occurred so don't be judgmental!

#2 ask him if he came up with this game on his own or if someone taught it to him. In a loving open way make sure he was not abused or has been watching stuff he shouldn't have. If he's lying, it's not because he's evil, it's because he's afraid of your reaction. Children cannot be sociopaths, only adults can.

#3 if he is non chalant about it, THAT'S GOOD! that means he wasn't doing something he knew was wrong, he doesn't understand why what he did was wrong in your eyes and may even be confused by your reaction.

#4 you need to explain the birds and the bees asap! Use technical language and don't be embarassed. Honestly he should have known these things a long time ago and none of this is shameful. Explain why the privates are 'no touch' zones until he is an adult.

This is very important because if he doesn't understand why these are no touch zones what's keeping him from letting an adult touch him there? And if you made it a shameful embarrassing thing he isn't going to want to tell you about it.

So please just be open and honest with him. He's a very curious AND healthy little boy trying to figure out all these new sensations and if you want him to stop experimenting to figure it out for himself you have to help him understand or have a male adult have a talk with him together.

If he has not been abused and has not been seeing bad images then you have a VERY intelligent, curious and healthy little boy who is a bit too sheltered trying to figure out why things feel the way they do.

Explain it to him and help him understand and I promise he will stop.

The comedian Jim Norton in his stand up routine talks about playing the exact same game as a child that your son played in his routine. Louis CK talks about similar things in his routine as well. Check them out on Netflix to ease your mind, it's really not as outrageous or rare as you'd think.

As Louis CK says, 'little boys are frickin' weird.'

Just don't let your son feel guilty or weird ok?

But now that he knows, this kind of thing is not ok to do in the future.

[R26]

Well said! I could not have said it any better! We need more understanding and intuitive people like youself in the world! I think we're soulmates...lol j/k

[MRuckyGucky]

well first, lets be clear - he seen something. something he seen drew an interest. not just sex but the passion and bliss within it. his intentions arent bad, but is he is TOO experimental. typically, the cause of this is seeing too much of this on TV, having too much access, and most importantly - not understanding "whats Wrong" about it all.
kids today dont refrain for consequence, they refrain because it goes against what makes them feel like a complete and wholesome person. as a kid, he's looking for what makes him whole - whether its because :adults" do it or etc., he needs more stimulation of the mind that will make him refrain and take a different path.explain to him why its wrong for him and how he wouldnt like the outcome of it all. its not that he wants to lie, he needs to be taught how it makes him a better person to be truthful.. cause see now that he is truthful about it you can say being truthful was a great start now so i can teach him more and his conscience will hold on to the life lessons learned from the mistakes of moving or "growing up" too fast..

[margypops]

sorry no pro here look on the right of the forums page and the expert/doctor forums are there Dr Kennedy has much experience Good Luck

[misha220]

I have Incounterd a very disturbing issue yesterday,First of all I have a 9 year old son who is getting very curious about sex.....the only problem is that he acts on it with boys!I am in flat out shock when he addmitted it to the mother of the othe child who was only 5!The lady said she was calling the cops on my son and scared him to death....in the mean time I'm a mess!I just want to know if this is normal for 9 year old boys,is it curiosity or the beginning stages of turning out gay!I will love him no matter,he's my baby!!

[jedev]

I wish a professional would comment on these issues as I have a related concern but after reading the above, will definitely not be seeking advice from any self-appointed, judgemental know-alls. I feel for you Momfor4 and also know the restrictions of living in a country town with few services.

[margypops]

Well I think you will find help here , so much helpful action going on , cant you feel the competitiveness in our responses! Incidently I think thats a good thing ,you get honest oppinions from us all,it makes it worth while and Guys it does help the kids and Moms to get a Handle on their Problems.

[momfor4]

OMG - this is such a mean board!  I'm through!  I was just trying to be honest in conveying the weird and wide range of things this brings up.  Not trying to be in a bubble or in denial.  If I was in denial, would I have stayed up all night researching child sexual behaviours, or located this board?    Oh - and Miss Jeanie223 - try living in a town where the nearest stoplight is 1 hr away, and the nearest city with more than 1 therapist is 4 hrs away, and see what your reasonable options for child therapy look like.  Really - give it a whirl!  Oh - and add to that 4 (FOUR) children that you are trying to assess for molestation, and see how sane that looks!  Try talking to each of them without scaring the rest of them.   I am NOT in denial, I am just trying to reasonably evaluate this, and find the best kind of help for my son AND for the other kids involved .  AND, my "Oh My Gosh" attitude, is to attempt to convey to other innocents that this can happen to anyone, and maybe protect someone else who thought that they were even more careful than average but weren't careful enough, in a possibly vain attempt to prevent someone else from experience the pain and heartache that this causes to so many.  Thanks so much.  

[Megaroni]

I too home-school my daughter.  I first hand know that their environment is different than most.  I am so sad to hear about the minister and his wife.  We too are Christians, and it is so grieving when we find out we have been involved with "wolves in sheeps clothing".  I have been a foster mom for 2 years and have seen everything.  We did this to bring healing to the children who have been neglected and or abused.  With both the wife and husband in "cahoots" if you will I would be very suspicious.  The fact that he did those things in the same day says a whole lot more.  Also if the boy was uncircumsized I can see it becoming such a curious thing to both of them.  My daughter pushed over my jammie top to see my breast, and I said hey girl what are you doing?  She simply said I wanted to see what they look like because I don't have any.  I am glad she did that with me, but I could see complete innoncence in the act, and what if it was a girlfriend who was developed?  I could even see them wanting to touch to see what if feels like.  It is all in innocence.  It is when it is taken too far that we must become concerned.  Please let me know what happens.  I will be praying.

[momfor4]

Thank you for your kind and thoughtful response.  I went to bed in tears after reading RockRose's response last night.  We are NOT the "kind of people" that this happens to out of neglect.  The children that my son was with, we have known since birth, and my son has never exhibited even the slightest interest in things sexual, with anyone, he is rather immature (6-y.o.-ish) and innocent, likes trucks and bikes, etc.  I am incredibly concerned about how this affects those kids, who I think of as niece/nephew, but am also concerned about where this came from.  (Side note, I would say that we are pretty "fair and balanced" as to how sexuality is handled in our home.  The children affected are a little bit nudist.  They remove their clothes at the drop of a hat.  It is possible that they took their clothes off, and some curiousity followed.  Also, if that happened, the other little boy is circumcised, and my son is not, there may have been some inspections going on. )  This came as a total shock.  Yes, the moment we learned of this, we began to look for some type of therapist. We are new to our area (moving from a very tiny rural area to a huge city), and don't yet have primary care physicians, etc.  Both of the incidents happened close together, possibly the same day, but the children told their mom of them 6 wks apart, so we had to deal with them separately with our son.  After 30 minutes of grilling, our son admitted to the incidents.  We are VERY attentive, homeschooling parents, and our children are generally not left with others....however, several years ago, our minister was convicted of child molestation.  At that time, we questioned our children extensively about whether they had been harmed (yes, they had been alone with him, and/or his wife, who was an accomplice), and they insisted they had not, but.......we may never know.  Within our home, our children are witness only to loving displays of affection, there are no X-rated movies in the house, but....again, one of my sons checked out what we thought was a comic book at the library the other day,  and it was full of explicit pictures and x-rated terminology - so in todays world, they can stumble upon way more than we would ever want them too.  Thank you again Megaroni for bringing a little sanity to my problem.  I'm off to hunt for a therapist.

[Hatebate]

Home schooling. There's your problem.  The child hasn't internalized common social norms and is experimenting to learn where boundaries are.

He likely gravitates to younger children because they are still in that phase of socialization.

He may have problems socializing with children his own age as he dosen't have the social scripts nessisary to socialize with them comfortably.

This is likely NOT your fault, but a side-effect of not having grown up with others of the same age socially.

Put him in a youth group like scouts or a church group and let him explore with kids his own age.

[Megaroni]

First RockRose, how on earth would a 9 year old even know that another person could suck his penis?  Has he been around any x-rated programs.  Is there a neighbor that may allow there children to watch R and X-rated programs?  I personally would not put fear into him about the police and some other forms of discipline.  This is something for the professionals.  I have a nine year old girl, and she could no more think of some girl licking her private area as believing she was from outer space.  This does not at all sound good to me.  I have been a foster parent for 2 years and have seen so much, that I immediately go to the route of doctors and therapist.  I would first start with his pediatrician.  If he already is lying, and hiding his behaivor you can bet he will not discuss it with you.  It is easier to get younger children to admitt things.  I would get him some professional help, and let them ask the questions the right way.  I do know if he gets fear, or punishment at this young age it could be a defining moment for his sexuality as a teen and adult.  Please find someone who knows how to handle this properly and professionally.  Kids are always born with innocence, until.  

[RockRose]

What do you do now?  Stop leaving him unsupervised with much younger children,  and alert him to the truth that if he does this again he might not be so lucky - another parent might have him arrested for this.

I don't really agree with that,  but that's the reality - he's molested two younger children that you know of,  probably several more,  and so far there are no cops at your door.  

Stop the behavior,  supervise him around other children,  and warn him of the dire consequences.

[bb7493]

I also recommend therapy for your son, but he should be seen by someone with experience and training in working with children displaying sexualized behaviors. It is very likely he learned this behavior somewhere, even if not at home. It is important to remember that good parents can also have children who have seen or experienced sexual behaviors somewhere other than in your home. A well trained therapist can help to determine how he learned these behaviors and if someone ever molested him. Children are very reluctant to disclose molestation they experienced for fear that they won't be believed or will be punished. It is very important to get to the bottom of this now rather than waiting until he hits puberty. One source for finding a very qualified therapist is to call your local Child Advocacy Center. Although they see children known to be abused there, they also know and work with qualified therapists in the community. You can find your local CAC at this link: http://www.onewithcourage.org/find-a-center/

Good luck, and I am sorry this has happened. You obviously only want what is best for your son.