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can someone help
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can someone help

Hello my name is jessica and i am a mother of 4 children ages 10,9,8,6 two girls and two boys my youngest girl is 9 and im not sure what to do so im hoping someone here has some ideas or advice here is what is going on .

my 9 year old daughter is a very angry child one min she is fine and the next she is hurting one of her siblings i noticed when she was around 1 or so she had a big temper for such a little girl and now it has gotten worse everyone keeps telling me its nothing or im over seeing things but when i have't to hold my child to the wall or on the floor because of her trying to hurt my other children thats not over seeing anything today she punched her older sister and then pushed her younger brother down the stairs i was really upset and pushed her against the wall and yelled at her asking her what she was thinking and told her she could have really hurt him her response was i don't care i had a right to push him i told her she had no right and next time i call the police and have them come talk with her because im at the end of the rope i have bipoler 2 and have been battling it for 18 years along with ptsd i remember how i was as a child and i know every case is different but she seems worse than i was at her age and im not sure what to do the dr said she does not have it she is fine just has a short fuse i worry sometimes about her and what she does but i also worry about how i react when she does these out of control things please help ........
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757137_tn?1347200053
The child has what we would call "a mean streak." I was talking to my doctor the other day and we hit on the topic of how to handle antisocial behavior. He felt that such apparently emotional problems had a physical cause and, from what I have observed in my long life, I agree with him. Medicine is leaning more and more in this direction. But where does that leave us with psychology? Difficult problem. But if you are consistent in preventing her from expressing her aggression physically she will probably modify her behavior. This will take much of your attention, but will pay off in the end.

By the way, when I say prevent her, I mean just that. If you see her going after another child, pick her up and move her away. If she tries to repeat the action, pick her up and away again. Really tiring, but this has worked for me with toddlers who in innocence place themselves in danger.
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1035252_tn?1371343440
Well without knowing all the details and background of how things got so bad, the one glaring issue that stood out to me was...she violently pushed her brother down the stairs, so you violently pushed her against the wall. This is a HUGELY mixed message...I think you all need to see family counseling and soon. is there a dad in the picture?
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377493_tn?1356505749
I think Ashelen is making an excellent point.  We can't tell our children not to hurt, but then hurt them.  I can understanding needing to restrain her if she's violent, but I think it needs to be left at that.

I can understand this being a very difficult situation to deal with.  4 kids on their own could easily be overwhelming for anyone, and having one that may have special needs of some sort even tougher, especially if you are on your own (not sure if that's the case?).  I think her suggestion of family counseling is a good one, and I might add in some one on one for both you and her.  There is help out there, and sometimes we all need a little extra support and guidance.  Parenting is hard work, and if this were me, I'd reach out for help.

All the best.
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535822_tn?1413656274
I would agree with Ashelen   and would say some family counseling is needed here ..
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757137_tn?1347200053
The child has what we would call "a mean streak." I was talking to my doctor the other day and we hit on the topic of how to handle antisocial behavior. He felt that such apparently emotional problems had a physical cause and, from what I have observed in my long life, I agree with him. Medicine is leaning more and more in this direction. But where does that leave us with psychology? Difficult problem. But if you are consistent in preventing her from expressing her aggression physically she will probably modify her behavior. This will take much of your attention, but will pay off in the end.

By the way, when I say prevent her, I mean just that. If you see her going after another child, pick her up and move her away. If she tries to repeat the action, pick her up and away again. Really tiring, but this has worked for me with toddlers who in innocence place themselves in danger.
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Avatar_m_tn
   On a slightly different tact.  How is she doing at school?  If this is only happening at home, it is actually a slightly easier problem to solve.  If it is also happening at school, then it is a problem that it controlling her whole life.  However, it also means that the school should be able to help.  Actually, the school must try to help.  
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Avatar_f_tn
she has had a few episodes at school one of which she screamed at the teacher after he asked her why she was not taking her homework home and infact pushing inside her desk the teacher and i have been trying to work with her because she was telling me everyday she had no homework and then he found why and she flipped out and screamed in his face then the other day i guess from what i was told she went off on some girls at school and then on friday the schooled called and said she wet herself instead of asking to go to the bathroom and she has been wetting herself at home as well i have been talking with the doctor about her behavier and the wetting but he keeps telling me she is going through a stage and for those of you above i DID not push her violently to the wall she is not hurt nor did i hurt her and this is NOT our first battle she not only attacks my other children but has went off on me more than i can count and it mostly happens when she don't get her way or someone makes her mad there has been a few times where it just happens and im not sure what set her off and she does see a counsler as do i but like i said everyone keeps saying she is going through a stage and its because i have them so close together in age but thats a bunch of crap so as for reaching out i have been and i do but when no one is giving me some helpful insight im kinda at a stand still and yes thier dad is in the picture but works alot and when is home he don't spend a hole lot of time with us yes im sure thats is  playing a role in some of it but there has to be more going on i just don't know what....
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1035252_tn?1371343440
Unfortunately pushing her against the wall and yelling IS violent. You do not have to inflict harm to cross the line BUT I think your frustration is understandable and no one is judging you... Sadly though reacting to violence with violence makes it worse so there has to be another method and you deserve help discovering one.  I feel for you,  it must be very rough to have such a hurtful child.  I would switch to a family counselor who deals specifically with anger issues in children and MAKE DAD ATTEND TOO!  Fixing this shouldn't just be on you.
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Avatar_m_tn
     Ummmm, she sounds really stressed out.  Have her grades begin to suffer at school.  Or have some grades like in math gone down while others stay about the same?
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Avatar_m_tn
    By the way, you said at 1 she had a bad temper.  But what about the last couple of years.  In other words has this gotten worse lately?  And the same question would go for school. I am guessing that she was in the 3rd grade last year.  How was that?
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1006035_tn?1391310794
I agree that you should not push her against the wall. Instead I would get right in her face and very forcefully tell her "No!" I would then punish her. Take away all treats, tv, computer, etc. Never take away a meal, growing children need to eat. They also need to play, so don't take away that. There are plenty of other things to ground her from that will get your point across. Don't yell or scold, just matter of factly remind her why she is being punished. Even if she has a problem you can teach her not to behave like that.

I would also take her see a behavioral pediatrician and psychologist. It can't hurt. Even if there isn't anything developmentally wrong, it sounds like she is having a hard time processing her living situation and just needs a little extra help.
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Avatar_f_tn
sandman2 yes it has gotten worse over the years and yes her grades are sufferinging  esp her math she is the 3rd grade now i mean its not always bad with her she is a very loving child until something is not her way then all hell breaks loose i sat down with her on saturday because i wanted to give her time to cool down and think about what had happend and i told her how much i love her and im sorry she fills the way she does and i ask her to explain to me why she feels the need to act out the way she does and her response was i don't know .....i have also been doing a lot of thinking and i think we maybe need to do a little more mommy daughter time its hard for me to get one on one time with each of my children because my youngest son has medical problems and is always sick he was born with undeveloped lungs and has cronic (chronic) ashtma and an unstable immune system and a lot of my time goes to taking care of his daily care which is 6 breathing treatments daily 2 pills and 2 different oral steroids and the house cleaning i have to stay up on for him so i know this don't help and i have made an apt to get in to a family counsler next week but im trying to think outside the box as well so more suggestions and ideas would be greatly appreciated.
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Avatar_f_tn
I agree but however we have tryed taking all those things away tv,computer,books,video games,phone,sleep overs etc....all this does is make her more violent she has a temper which i was told my husband was the same way as a child and even now as an adult he is a hot head.
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Avatar_m_tn
   Thanks that information really helped.  Here are some ideas.
    First,  kids do need to be taught how to handle their anger.  There are a couple sets of books aimed at this age group.  One is, " How to Take the Grrrr Out of Anger" (Laugh And Learn). That and several more are found here - http://www.amazon.com/Take-Grrrr-Anger-Laugh-Learn/dp/1575421178/ref=pd_sim_b_7
        Another good set is the," Don't Rant and Rave on Wednesdays!" The Children's Anger-Control Book. That and others in the set are found here - http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Rant-Rave-Wednesdays-Anger-Control/dp/0933849540/ref=pd_sim_b_1.   These books will give her ways to help her when she gets angry.  And its worth role playing situations to practice how to deal with anger.
      You could read these with her at night - thus giving you each a bit more quality time together.  I agree with you she probably needs some more mommy/daughter time.  I bet that being one of the older children in the family that she and her sister probably don't get the attention that the younger kids get.  And I certainly understand why after reading about your youngest.  That's tough on all of you.
     The final thing is to figure out what is causing this.  It sounds like she is under increasing stress at school (which then translates over to home).  Now its possible that she finds it hard to get homework done at home (too noisy, too many brothers and sisters around?  Do they have a quiet place to work?)  and that causing her actions at school.  But it sounds like she is not even attempting it.  They tells me that possibly she is having such a hard time with it that she is giving up.  That coupled with the lies, and wetting are symptoms of something like ADD.  She may not have ADD, but it would explain a lot.  I have seen very similar problems over on the ADHD forum.  And typically it is happening to undiagnosed girls.  Also if it is something like ADD she is at risk to develop Oppositional Defiant Disorder or ODD.  Something like 33% of kids with ADD have this.  Symptoms of ODD are:  Spiteful or vindictive, loses temper, angry and resentful, argues with adults, touchy or easily annoyed, blames others.  And of course you can have ODD without having ADD, but the percentage is way less.  Anyway, here is a good site with information on ADD -
     http://helpguide.org/mental/adhd_add_signs_symptoms.htm
Take a look and see if any look familiar.  I mainly bring this up due to her problems in school so it might be worth talking to her teacher in more detail about this too.   If you think the idea is worth following up, I can suggest ways to go.  I also monitor the ADHD forum here http://www.medhelp.org/forums/ADD---ADHD/show/175    ; if you want to post there.
     Best wishes!
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Avatar_f_tn
Reading this sounds so much like my two children... We have read a few anger books an my son is sort of learning to controll his anger at school as he can go in a quite space and have a time out, and then will be fine like nothing happened in the first place, it proves hard at home with his little sister as she is exactly  the same yet worse.. they tend to clash and don't get on at all, my daughter will be like this at home and at school.. my son will only be aggressive toward children younger than him where my daughter will be aggressive and nasty to her younger brother, big brother/sister and people she doesn't know in the street just for looking at her...
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Avatar_f_tn
I've just read the ADD/ADHD site... The last one I read matched my daughter but didn't seem to match my son but this one explains things a lot easyer and also matches my son... Could I asked a question pls....
    As I said be4 my daughter is ten times worse than my son, so could it be something more with my daughter? Also are there any wed sites that can give me ideas to help to control there behavior? As our home life can be very stressful for my other two children and myself....
  
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