inappropriate touching

[Mom2TnK]

My five year old got in trouble at school today.  A girl wanted him to give her his library book.  He didn't want to trade.  He says, "I couldn't think of what to trade it for."  So I made her do something bad. . . .He forced her (another 5 year old) to touch his private area (on top of the pants). We've told him it is never ok to touch someone's privates or have someone touch your private area.  The principal called and left a message for me right before she left for the night.  I tried to call her just 5 minutes after the message was left and got a recording, saying she is going to bring my son to her office tomorrow to further investigate this situation.  Absolutely no communication from the teacher on this at all. Obviously, what my son did was wrong.  But, what I'm wanting to know is how we deal with this situation without making my son feel like a bad apple.  Please help.  Suggestions on how to deal with this with my son and his school.

Thanks.

[babygirl6152]

don't bring it up. Let it go

my 2 cents

[margypops]

I dont think you should expose your son to any more trauma than he has been through time to let it go. and he does know now what is appropiate and what isnt . I am sorry you and he had to go through this it really sounds like the school over reacted in the first place.,

[Mom2TnK]

Ok, so the suspension was overturned.  

I only just yesterday found a way to talk to the teacher to find out what she saw, what was said by the children right after the incident occurred.

From the teacher:
It happened in the classroom, it was very quick and hard know for sure.  But, she saw the little girls hand being pulled away by the little girl (and she thought, but is not sure that it was coming from under the pants).  This is how the teacher described it.  Upon seeing this and talking to the kids, our son said "she wanted my book and I wanted her to do something nice."  I asked the teacher "and how do we know that my son was the one who came up with the something nice to do?"  She said, "we don't."  I asked, did my son force the girls hand and she said, "neither of the children ever indicated that he took her hand, touched her hand, physically made her touch him and she is not sure why the Principal has come to that conclusion as the children never indicated that to her (the teacher)."  I asked when the little girl said, "he made me do it" how do we know that she wasn't just saying he told her she had to do something nice for the book and this is what she came up with to do.  The teacher again said, "we just don't know."  She said, "I don't want to get fired here, but look, they're 5, this just didn't need to go so far.  I wish that we could've just been the ones to talk to the kids and to the parents, it would've been better for all."

I'm glad the suspension is removed and want to move on from this.  But, if I had been told from the get go exactly what was said and what was seen at the time it happened, I would've been better able to question my son and find out the answer to these questions that we just don't know the answer to and never will.  And, obviously, am upset that the Principal has assumed "made me do it" to mean that our son physically forced the girl to touch him and led us to believe as well.  I want to know what happened for sure to make sure my son hasn't been exposed to something he shouldn't have been exposed to or to know if possibly the little girl is being exposed to things she shouldn't be exposed to or if this was as benign as the teacher emphasizes she thinks it was.  I don't want to subject my son to further turmoil in this matter and he clearly now understands about inappropriate touching.  It's been several weeks now and feel like the window has passed to talk with him about the actual incident.  Should I be worried or trust that it was as benign as the teacher thinks it was?

[Mom2TnK]

We are sending him to private school--though it will stretch us to the limit (if not beyond) to do so.  

This was a public school and the Vice Principal is a young male, first time Vice Principal.  The Principal is in her late 40's or older.  She is a first time principal from another district.  I have no idea about either of their marital status or child situation.  

[margypops]

Wow and all over a 5year old "touching another child , and over his pants ,he probably had seen or heard that was the most exciting thing he could think of,years ago no one would have considered this was a' dire"thing he did , I doubt if he even really knew why, Lighten up school, okay guys its okay to yell at me again!

[RockRose]

Mom,  what will you do now?  Do you have the option of putting him in private school,  or maybe doing an indistrict transfer to another district public school - assuming this was a public school to begin with.

I have to ask.  is the Vice Principal a mother?  In my experience,  this is the kind of thing administrators who aren't parents often do - they really just don't completely "get" kids.

All the education and experience in the world doesn't replace being a parent when it comes to understanding and accepting child behavior.

Best wishes.

[Mom2TnK]

We have removed our son from this school.  We are upset because the actual teachers (who know the children) were never involved at any point in handling this situaton or trying to work with the parents of both children.  Not only this but, the Vice Principal spent an hour with our son "talking" and we were never called when the incident occurred.   It wasn't till he came home from school that we found out about the incident at all.  I'm not even sure how much of his retelling of the incident to us was from him and how much from what he was told by the Vice Principal at this point as some of his words were clearly not his own. The next day we met with the principal who proceeded to grill my son about why he would do that and made him feel like something was wrong with him.  AT one point she asked about a supposed comment he made to the Vice Principal and he replied, "I just sat in the chair and listened."  And the Principal replied "what do you mean, "you don't care to listen."  It was clearly not what he said.  I corrected her.  She accepted my correction, stating that he was mumbling.  He was, he was scared!!!!  But, she did not apologize to him nor admit that it is obvious that she was listening for the worst and not for the truth.  I immediately called my pediatrician who was aghast that this principal and vice principal (with no experience/education in childhood behavioral psychology, with no ability to understand the importance nor the appropriate way in which it is neccessary to handle such a sensitive issue with a young child) had proceeded in this manner.  After reading the school expulsion form and talking with us, she recommended we get him out of that school ASAP!!!  We are furious and have removed our son from the school.  

[Mom2TnK]

One day, at home.

[babygirl6152]

suspended for one day? three days? at home or in school suspension?

[imanaddict]

Suspending a 5 yr old? Wow! My opinion is that is a little excessive, although I'm sure the little girl's parents won't feel that way. This is not an easy subject to bring to light with any kid. If he knows what he did is wrong, that is a great start! At least he knows and hopefully it will never happen again. Little kids are naturally curious about their "parts"  It's a part of growing up and unfortunately, it probably won't be the last time he gets curious. I would certainly call a meeting with the school before they do something drastic like send CPS over! Who knows what they are thinking if they are willing to suspend a child. Good luck to you, and keep us posted!

[Mom2TnK]

Ok, so they suspended my five year old for this!!!!!!!  The teacher never talked with me only the principal who felt it necessary to involve the Associate Superintendant of schools.  The principal was offended that I called my pediatrician and the pediatrician and I were concerned that snowballing this in the way that they have done will overly scare my 5 year old.  They are educators afterall.  My son clearly understands what he did was wrong and is very upset by this all.  He was was so upset this morning and very scared to even go to school.  I'm so upset!  It was wrong, he knows it was wrong, he's never done anything like this before.  But, now a suspension and a permanent note in his file.

[RockRose]

Did she do it for the library book?   I'm really hesitant to use the word "forced" unless in fact he physically overpowered her and forced her to touch him.  Instead, did he offer and she accept?

Or did he offer and she declined and told the teacher?  

What exactly happened kind of matters.  It also is really important that you express embarrassment and shame - because really,  this is shameful and embarrassing - and kids need to hear that when a good hearted fair parent is embarrassed by their behavior.  Bad apple or not,  this was over the line and embarrassing.  

Your son sounds like a really smart,  introspective boy who communicates very well.  For him to communicate that he couldn't think what to trade - he's smart enough now to understand not to do this again.

Best wishes.

[babygirl6152]

If it happened at library time sometimes the teachers are not present or perhaps there was a substitute teacher, although with it being such a touchy subject  I imagine they just want the principal to handle it--
Just assure the principal- in front of your child- THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN!

that will show your son you are "on the same page" as the school.
it will show the principal that you are taking it seriously.

Then well, .....

that's it- we had something similar happen and my son was in 5th grade- it was words- not touching- I allowed the principal to give my son swats- it was over- and it was never discussed again- (my son did go to confession at church)- he chose to- he knew what he did was out of line-

I hear the tiniest bit of panic from you mom- your son is 5- (I am sure he is adorable)  and is not yet considered to have a fully developed conscience/ it should all eventually be ok once the roar dies down. warm regards-