kindergartener acting out

[benjimom]

I have a five year old boy. He is a young five for kindergarten with a MAY birthday.

He had a rough start to the kindergarten year, but after a few weeks, did better and this continued on until right before the holidays. Now things have really started to deteriorate. He is acting out everyday adn the last two days they ahve called me and asked me to come and get him and bring him home.  He has been running out of the class and supposedly trying to leave the school.  He spends a lot of time in the principal's office and he actually likes the principal.  The school is setting up a behavioral specialist to come in on Tuesday and evaluate him and come up with a plan.

I am also having him see a therapist and she says he might have ADHD.

His behaviour at home and w/the sitter has been good lately and he does what he is told, he still has his moments, but not like the school. He says he hates his teacher.  He is in karate and listens there.

In the last year he has gone through a divorce, his father is in jail and not available of course, moved to a new home, and started kindergarten and been with multiple childcare providers while I work.  

I am at my wit's end trying to figure out what is going on.  

I think he might be stressed, he has chewed holes in some shirts and he does not do that at home.

Today, apparently he had gas and a student told the teacher and she thought he pooped in his pants and he went to the office and then my babysitter had to pick him up early. His pants were clean.  

I just worry that things will nto get better . I wonder if changing classrooms would help.  

I don't think he's learning like he should either, reading is really hard for him.  I volunteered and noticed a lot of kids were struggling

The teacher is in her late 50s, early 60s and this is her first time to teach kindergarten.

[benjimom]

I basically have written her a note tonigth that I want better communication and a plan must be implemented.  My son will have consequences at home, this is NOT acceptable to me.  I just need to knwo things more so I can discipline at home.  I'm not happy with her and she needs ot be more professional and not take things to heart.  But mainly above it, it's about my son, what do we need to do?  what can I do to help him.  It's not about how I feel, about how she feels and I shoudl not be learning about his actions from an educational ***'t who gave me her number to be of support to me.  She tells me mroe than the school.  

I hope he does not get kicked out.

I am going to work with him on working thru his feelings and not being aggressive or taking it out on others around him.  If you have any suggestions let me know!!

Thanks all.  

[Sandman2]

Sharp kid there.  We all are not happy with the teacher.  What do you know about the other one and how full is the class?  Do a little homework first.

[benjimom]

My son admitted he said this, but hesaid he said it to get out of the class.  B/c two days prior they let him go home when he acted out.  He thinks he will get to go home. I'm thinking staying in this classroom is a bad idea.  I don't think he means he will kill.  When the babysitter picked him up, he said he was sorry and she said okay and walked off.  Then he gave her a letter saing he was sorry.

[benjimom]

I haerd from an EA I am talking to on the outside, he was hitting other kids and threatened to kill the teacher.  

[benjimom]

the teacher emailed me last night to tell me he is "hitting more often " at school.  I asked her to give me more details. She just tells me and tells me to talk to him about it.

[benjimom]

I am sorry your school is not doing anything. It's very frustrating.  Have you sought "outside" help?

[ANS04]

You are so lucky that the school your son attends is actually bringing in resources. My son is getting nothing...he is getting swept under the rug.

I know your sad for your son but ATLEAST he is getting help. I wish my son could get some help.

[benjimom]

lastest update, he grabbed the handle to teh fire extinguiser case and it broke the class. He said he wanted to see what was inside.  He has promised not to do it again.  Now they are hiring someone to be with him one on one everyday. I hope this will help.

I'm at a loss. Is there more than sensory and is becomign very deviant?? I'm just so worried about him.

[benjimom]

I went ot the psychologist thru my insurance.  A behavioral specialist has been called in from the school (district). this lady goes from one school tot he next where there are problems and tries to work on things. TOday he had a sub, he did have to go to the office but it was for a bloody nose.  I think he had an okay day, no major events.  I wonder if not having the regular teacher there helped.  

I went to see my therapist and she said me and him we've bene thru an incredible amt of stress.  The divorce went thru in Aug 09.  HIs dad moved out in NOv 08.  In Nov 09, we had to help move his dad out of his apt when he was in jail and his lease was expiring, I will not do that again.  His family should be more helpful.  IN Dec. 09, Dad got out of jail and saw Benji a few times before ending back in jail. Dad is alcoholic and keeps drinking while on probation.  So it's been one thing after another. My family lives far away about 1400 miles away.  I am thinking at this point of moving closer to family when this school year ends.  Still thinking.  

The therapist was concenred that last week he emptied out a pencil can and put the can on his hand and hit other students with it.  I am concerned too. I just hate to think he might have MAJOR issues.

[ANS04]

Benjimom my son is similar to yours...requiring a lot of one on one attention...however he responds beautifully to a teacher/aide working with him. He actually needs absolutely no help...he just wants someone next to him...or needs someone next to him to remind him to stay on task. Literally...you could sit next to him and just say..."stay focused, move to the next step, keep going" this is all it takes. Absolutely no instruction/help regarding the work is needed. However, when it comes to reading/writing my son does display the frustration you describe with your son. He will make a face..want to give up..get distracted.

Benjimom how did you get so much help....I here you talking about psychologists and behavioral specialist....your so lucky you have these options for your son.

[jdtm]

the teacher says she sits by him in class but he will not always cooperate with her.  

If anxiety is the issue, this is probably the wrong thing to do.  Ask him where he would like to sit - kids usually know - often a corner with the walls serving as "protection" on two sides or near the door serving as an "escape".  Anyway, he'll probably have an answer for you ...

[benjimom]

Hi,

Thanks JDTM,

I appreciate yours and everyone's advice.  I've learned so much from all of you.

Tomorrow a behavioral specialist is coming to observe my son and see if she can come up with a plan for him.  I hope this helps. I am so scared he has a SEVERE problem.  I don't know if this is purposeful or somthing he cannot control.  the teacher says she sits by him in class but he will not always cooperate with her.  

Did your child sometimes not cooperate with teh teachers and assistants?  They view him as defiant to authority.

I am just so nervous, I will keep all of you posted on anything I hear and keep the thread going, I'm learning so much from ALL of you.  So many ideas.  

[jdtm]

I think he gets so worked up, he cannot even think straight, he needs more instruction and really one on one. I wonder if this is what is happening at teh school


Yup - that's what is happening at school.  I belong to a support group for teachers and parents of children suffering from anxiety and from that group we have gleaned a lot of knowledge.  I am a retired teacher and am against retention for most children; however, I do feel that our granddaughter would have benefitted from repeating her kindergarten year.  A couple of parents in our group did "hold back" their child and, for them, it paid off.  I'm not saying that this is the way to go for your son but that school is extremely difficult for childen suffering from anxiety and the educational path they take might not be the conventional one.  Anxiety is an invisitble disorder and does inhibit learning. It may take tutors or one-on-one instruction, or summer assistance (although most of us feel ten months of school stress is enough for both child and parent), or longer than the average length of time to graduate, or even settling for less education than the IQ of the child would suggest.  One thing we did agree on was that homework was often too "painful" for children with severe anxiety and it was best to not do it (and this statement is from a teacher who used to check homework completion daily of students).  After all, if the home is the safe refuge, why turn it into just another scary and fearful place (as the school).  When your son is ready and comfortable enough to complete his homework, I suspect he will - our granddaughter began homework assignments sometime in third or fourth grade - she's now in high school.  She will not complete her high school in four years.  Until then ...  just a suggestion ...

One more thing - research has proven that if the brain has to choose between cognitive (thinking) tasks or emotional (feeling) tasks, it will choose the emotional every single time.  Learning cannot win over emotions, so first, one has to deal and try  to conquer the emotions/fears/feelings.  And this will take time - not weeks or months, but years.  In spite of this gloomy posting, do keep in mind if anxiety is the issue with your son, anxiety is very common and highly treatable and, unlike other issues/disorders, if properly treated, will improve and get better over time.  

to specialmom - thank you for your kind words.  We have learned so much from the problems of our granddaughter - it is not a path I would have chosen for my retirement but one that I was assigned.  It has/is not easy.  

[benjimom]

after I wrote this, I was trying to work wiht him on some school review stuff like alphabet stuff, sounds, etc.  He got so frustrated, he started groaning/grunting and saying he could not do it, etc.  He got very worked up.  I think he gets so worked up, he cannot even think straight, he needs more instruction and really one on one. I wonder if this is what is happening at teh school and they don't have many resources, one teacher to 23 students and then 1 EA if they are lucky.  

[specialmom]

Jdtm----  this is excellent information.  I think that anxiety and sensory (and probably add/adhd) are often present together.  My son displays signs of anxiety as well-----  chewing sleeves, for example.  When he is nervous or stressed, his senory is worse.  I would guess that it is a secondary issue to his sensory and as we've treated his sensory it has gotten better.  He also does many of the exact same things these ladies' children do . . . or at least he used too.  He still will if it is a bad day.

There seems to be a huge overlap between anxiety symptoms and sensory symptoms.  For us, treating the sensory has meant that his anxiety issues are better controlled.  We've not needed to pursue further help for this at this time (who knows what the future holds).  

When you are trying to figure out what is going on with a child, it is so difficult.  Each one is so different and unique with their situation even though they often  have similarities to other kids.  I think that is what makes it so tricky-----  something sounds just like my boy . . . but then they've tried what we're doing and it works for us but doesn't for them . . . or vice versa.  Information is king with our kids.  The more the better.  I always broke it down to two things-----  figuring out what was going on for the sake of my child's core happiness and figuring out what was going on for the sake of school/life success.  To me, I was much more interested in the core happiness.  My child didn't like how he felt----  so I needed to help him.  Sounds like you've felt the same way about the people in your life that have struggled.  

Anyway, just sharing here and appreciating the good information you always provide.

[benjimom]

Yes, he uses the restroom at school and eats at school from waht I hear, I dont' know how much exactly.  Also, he is very shy about asking for help, instead, he does not.  When he first went ot Computer lab at the school, his teacher wrote he would not participate, after further questioning I figured out he did not know what to do and how to do the computer and she asked an EA to sit with him and help him do it and after that it' sbeen much better for him.

He does not like music, he and the teacher got off on a "bad start" and I don't think they have recovered very well.  


The other day at school they asked him if he had had a BM in his pants, another student reported  he smelled BM and she asked him if he did and he woudl not answer her or others teachers about it.  He did not have a bm thankfully!!  Just gas!!  

I will write more later, but it really helps!!!!!

[jdtm]

By the way, if anxiety is the issue and your son is acting out, this is one step above shutting down (my words)

My statement above was a bit too condensed - the spectrum of behaviour tends to be normal, overly noisey/silly, overly quiet/withdrawn and then shutting down - the noisey/silly behaviour is the reason children who are suffering from anxiety are often misdiagnosed with ADHD.  The main difference between the two disorders (ADHD and anxiety) is that overactive, hyper and silly behaviours are constant with those children suffering from ADHD while these behaviours only occur in settings and situations very uncomfortable for children suffering from anxiety (and of course, school will be at the top of the list).

Benjimom - everything in your first posting - rough start to school with difficulty after a relaxing holiday (and this also includes week-ends), the avoidance or running away, the "hating/blaming" of his teacher, the smelly gas and probably burping, chewing of clothes and papers and probably other items, the not being able to learn as you expected - all these behaviours we saw in our granddaughter.  I volunteered a lot in our granddaughter's school and that really helped her to feel more comfortable.  In your second posting - frustration and anger (temper tantrums) are so common to anxiety that some children with anxiety require "alone time" when they return from school after being so stressed all day.  In your third posting - our granddaughter ate a lot of dry pasta (still does) so there must be something about carbs that brings comfort.  Also, our granddaughter was selectively mute - meaning that she was so anxious in certain settings that she was unable to speak - when I read that your son gets overly frustrated and "forgets his words and starts grunting and groaning", this is a huge indication your child is very, very stressed at his point in time, so overcome with fear that he is unable to speak.  Your fourth posting is all about sensory issues and our granddaughter had them all - clothes, noise, smells, touch - of course the special classes as music and gym are difficult because these are the senses involved and children suffering from anxiety want to just avoid and hide and not perform.  Also, doing school tasks with him at home will remind him of school and bring back those very uncomfortable feelings of school and so he will fight homework time.  In your fifth posting you mentioned that your son was destructive - our granddaughter was very hard on all her supplies, toys and material goods in general - don't know why this trait is part of anxiety, but it seems to be.  In one of your later postings you mentioned your child was a high needs, intense and colicky infant - so was our granddaughter (it took so much energy to care for her and she still is high maintenance).  Also, you mentioned your son performed at an inconsistent level at school - if anxiety is the case, then this would make sense; he performs well when not suffering from fear or stress.  I also suspect your child is immature socially and does not mix well with the other children as well as adults.  One more thing - is your son able to use the washroom at school, eat at school and ask for assistance at school if required?

Our granddaughter was diagnosed by a child psychiatrist and her treatment was mulit-modal - intervention, therapy and medication.  For us, there was no other option if she was to have some sense of a normal life.  Your entire postings scream "anxiety" to me - co-morbid with sensory issues and probably depression issues.  But, I do not know your son or his situation nor do I have any medical expertise.

I hope this has been of some help ....

[specialmom]

For the record, that is the same with my son too.  School was a whole different story for him.  If a child is overwhelmed or anxious by their enviroment----  that is when it is worse.  However, the modulation/regulation issues happen at home a bit.  Not like school though.   But when I saw my son's face on the playground at his preschool . . . it was a face I didn't know.  

[ANS04]

Ditto....my son displays behaviors I cant even fathom...always at school. However, I see milder versions of the behaviors at church, The Little Gym and the such.

[benjimom]

what do you mean "shutting down" just not doing anything or being withdrawn?

Sorry abotu the divorce, that's really tough and esp if it's messy!

My son has his worst behaviors in the schol settings.  He does things there that I dont' see at home.

[jdtm]

did your child just have his worst behaviors in the school setting?

Any social setting in which she felt comfortable, she was unable to "behave".  By the way, if anxiety is the issue and your son is acting out, this is one step above shutting down - our granddaughter shut down for four years before she began acting out (and this contined for several years.  Today her parents are going through a messy divorce and she has began "shutting down" again.  So sad ...

[benjimom]

thanks to you for hte above info. I will look into the diagnoses of anxiety.  

Jdtm, did your child just have his worst behaviors in the school setting?

My son seems to do okay with babysitters and at school, granted he has his moments.

He is also very impateint in general.

[ANS04]

This is a good point...and I think Specialmom has been stressing that one particular diagnosis does not always fit perfectly with each individual child.

This is why Specialmom has told me that she has implemented a lot of different strategies taken from different disorders.

Benjimom...I have tried reading about anxiety...I found it hard to find descriptions of situations...symptoms dont always match...but situations can be matched.

My son behaves well at home but his issues are at school. Not to say he is perfect at home but the severe behavior problems we see are at school.

[jdtm]

just hope he does not have ADHD or ODD or bipolar....

I don't think your son has either of the above.  You have described my granddaughter - she was diagnosed with severe social anxiety - co-mobid with sensory processing issues and depression.  I might suggest you google the phrase "behaviors of children with anxiety" or "anxiety disorders in children" or similar words/phrases.  By the way, I know of several children suffering from severe anxiety who have been misdiagnosed with ADHD and one child suffering from social anxiety who was misdiagnosed with ODD (there is tremendous overlap in behaviour of these conditions and anxiety).  Have you had your son see a mental medical health specialist as a child neurologist or a child psychiatrist?  Many pediatricians are not well versed in this area, and yet anxiety in children is very common and highly treatable.  I wish you the best ....