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spanking
Please help...I have three boys ages 5,4 and 20 months.I didnt believe in spanking my boys at an early age and refused to although their father(who does not live with us) did and now the boys are out of hand. THey listen to their Dad and not me and now i feel like i failed as a parent and just want to give up, now he says its all because i didnt listen to him and that i should just sign the two older ones over to him. I cant give up on my kids i just need some advice or help on what to do now. I actually tried to spank them today and they pretty much laughed and said it didnt hurt which i didnt intend it to anyway i think it is too late for that but now what do i do?Any parents or people raised with/without spanking your comments will be greatly apprecciated.....I am new to this site but am really enjoying it...i love how people can just vent how they feel without anyone sayinhg they are right or wrong but just their opinion on the subject.
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Thanks margypops, it's ok to discuss our own personal methods and opinions, but keep in mind we can agree to disagree and we do not need to make judgement on some of the personalized parenting techniques discussed. Hope this further clarifies.
I thought Meilena that the original poster was asking about spanking ..and thats what we were discussing.. but I did take note of what you said here .
****Moderator Note****
As a reminder to those that are participating within this thread please focus on the original content and question of the poster instead of focusing on disagreements within ways of parenting.
As a reminder to those that are participating within this thread please focus on the original content and question of the poster instead of focusing on disagreements within ways of parenting.
My goodness---------- with the ages of your three kids and that they are all boys, you have SO much going on. The reason dad says they listen to him and not you is because he is the part time parent.
I've never spanked my children and they listen very well. I parent by teaching them to respect me. I see discipline as teaching rather as punishing. You CAN teach without the spanking part as spanking often sends a mixed signal. You did something wrong so I'll hit you is confusing to kids. They may try to use that same logic on their peers and then get in MORE trouble for hitting.
What worked for me as I have two boys that are 15 months a part in age is to understand what they cared about. You are probably overwhelmed at times and just react----- or don't react because it is stressful. Instead, think ahead. Have your game plan. Simple things like rules that always stick-------- "if you throw a toy, you lose that toy" and it goes high up away for a while. Immediately each and every time something is thrown, follow through with that. "If you shout while Mommy is driving, Mommy will pull over". Then do it. It kind of freaks kids out. I don't need to say a word. I just pull over and sit there. This has been very effective for me for issues that happen in the car. Anything that happens like fighting, etc. I say, I can't drive while that is going on and I'm pulling over. I also know what makes my kids tick. That is my thing I use. "oh, I'm so sorry. I'd hate to take your Elmo away" My kids had special blankies and pillows. Yep, I used those when necessary. They'd do anything to keep that blankie. Now I use their most current lego thing they are into or the Wii, LOL but it is what they care about. I give a warning and then follow through. At that young of an age, you can't take anything for very long.
I do my very best to stay calm and model good, controlled behavior. If I scream or yell or 'lose it'------ it escalates the whole situation. And again, confusing that bad behavior is okay for mom and not them. Pushing my tongue to the roof of my mouth stops me from yelling.
Do you have some supportive people around you like your parents? Ask for some help when you need it. Three kids are tiring.
Do NOT let your ex tell you you are a bad parent. We are all learning as we go. I guarentee things would be harder for him if he were with the kids full time and I presume he works so WHO would be with his kids? You can't take kids because you don't like how a parent disciplines . . . oh yeah. You can if it is abuse. You aren't abusing them. Provide stability for the kids and a loving home and train them to respect you patiently. You'll be fine.
One other thing that was and continues to be very key to my boys' behavior is physical activity. I get them out running and playing hard each and every day rain or shine. This directly affects many things such as how they sleep (they sleep better), how they listen and how they behave. I know it is hard with three kids but do your best to keep them extremely active.
good luck
I've never spanked my children and they listen very well. I parent by teaching them to respect me. I see discipline as teaching rather as punishing. You CAN teach without the spanking part as spanking often sends a mixed signal. You did something wrong so I'll hit you is confusing to kids. They may try to use that same logic on their peers and then get in MORE trouble for hitting.
What worked for me as I have two boys that are 15 months a part in age is to understand what they cared about. You are probably overwhelmed at times and just react----- or don't react because it is stressful. Instead, think ahead. Have your game plan. Simple things like rules that always stick-------- "if you throw a toy, you lose that toy" and it goes high up away for a while. Immediately each and every time something is thrown, follow through with that. "If you shout while Mommy is driving, Mommy will pull over". Then do it. It kind of freaks kids out. I don't need to say a word. I just pull over and sit there. This has been very effective for me for issues that happen in the car. Anything that happens like fighting, etc. I say, I can't drive while that is going on and I'm pulling over. I also know what makes my kids tick. That is my thing I use. "oh, I'm so sorry. I'd hate to take your Elmo away" My kids had special blankies and pillows. Yep, I used those when necessary. They'd do anything to keep that blankie. Now I use their most current lego thing they are into or the Wii, LOL but it is what they care about. I give a warning and then follow through. At that young of an age, you can't take anything for very long.
I do my very best to stay calm and model good, controlled behavior. If I scream or yell or 'lose it'------ it escalates the whole situation. And again, confusing that bad behavior is okay for mom and not them. Pushing my tongue to the roof of my mouth stops me from yelling.
Do you have some supportive people around you like your parents? Ask for some help when you need it. Three kids are tiring.
Do NOT let your ex tell you you are a bad parent. We are all learning as we go. I guarentee things would be harder for him if he were with the kids full time and I presume he works so WHO would be with his kids? You can't take kids because you don't like how a parent disciplines . . . oh yeah. You can if it is abuse. You aren't abusing them. Provide stability for the kids and a loving home and train them to respect you patiently. You'll be fine.
One other thing that was and continues to be very key to my boys' behavior is physical activity. I get them out running and playing hard each and every day rain or shine. This directly affects many things such as how they sleep (they sleep better), how they listen and how they behave. I know it is hard with three kids but do your best to keep them extremely active.
good luck
I apologize if it seemed I verbally attacked you--I was trying to make a point more of clarification about a Bible passage that I think is misconstrued and carelessly taken out of context too often as an excuse to use physical punishment for children. I read your first post as "use only spankings for children because nothing else works and the Bible says it's okay to do." I understand the point you're making now.
That said, I do partially agree with you. My husband and I use spanking with our children (two boys, ages 6½ and 18 months), but almost never need to do it because time outs, loss of priviledges, grounding, and extra chores usually correct the behavior the first time. In fact, we have a system in place with our oldest where he's had boundaries verbally defined to him that he knows will get him spanked if he crosses them, so spankings are never uncontrolled, unexpected, or done out of anger. It's a consequence to defined misbehaviors (our toddler is too young to understand this so this doesn't apply to him just yet), just like a time out or anything else.
Different things work for each individual family and child--spanking should not be used with some children for whatever reasons apply. But not all families and kids are a one-size-fits-all mold. Personally, like you, I do not view spanking as bullying or being domineering when it is used as a proper and expected discipline tool. I do not believe that spanking teaches children to hit any more than taking away a toy as discipline teaches a child not to share or using time outs teaches exclusion of others if they don't get their way.
If a parent *teaches* their child by *talking* to them about what is going on and why it is happening as a consequence, THAT is what a child will learn and how they will learn it. Everything else is just a tool and should be used properly. Parents need to know *how to communicate* with their children while using these tools of discipline.
That said, I do partially agree with you. My husband and I use spanking with our children (two boys, ages 6½ and 18 months), but almost never need to do it because time outs, loss of priviledges, grounding, and extra chores usually correct the behavior the first time. In fact, we have a system in place with our oldest where he's had boundaries verbally defined to him that he knows will get him spanked if he crosses them, so spankings are never uncontrolled, unexpected, or done out of anger. It's a consequence to defined misbehaviors (our toddler is too young to understand this so this doesn't apply to him just yet), just like a time out or anything else.
Different things work for each individual family and child--spanking should not be used with some children for whatever reasons apply. But not all families and kids are a one-size-fits-all mold. Personally, like you, I do not view spanking as bullying or being domineering when it is used as a proper and expected discipline tool. I do not believe that spanking teaches children to hit any more than taking away a toy as discipline teaches a child not to share or using time outs teaches exclusion of others if they don't get their way.
If a parent *teaches* their child by *talking* to them about what is going on and why it is happening as a consequence, THAT is what a child will learn and how they will learn it. Everything else is just a tool and should be used properly. Parents need to know *how to communicate* with their children while using these tools of discipline.
I agree with adgal I also respectfully tell you ...thats it ....have a nice day .........
I read something interesting in the expert forum earlier today. The Dr. said that in many cases, children that act out regularly and don't respond to discipline? It's the parents that need to make the change. I took that to mean anything from a stressful household to kids being screamed at (I still think that produces innappropriate behaviour). Children learn from us. If mom and dad are yelling at each other all the time, or not using good manners, children will do the same. My little guy is at the age where he copies everything. So he see's no violent tv shows...none at all. My husband and I do not yell at him or each other. When we are having an argument, we remove it from him completely. We try to keep his life as even keel and stress free as we can. When we tell him he cannot have something ,we stick to it. And you know what..he acts out sometimes, but it is normal toddler stuff. He is a really really great kid.
It's not that I think you want dominance over kids, and I apologize if you felt verbally attacked. That was not at all my intent. I just think that it teaches kids that the bigger person is dominant whether that is the intent or not. We are the parents, and yes, we absolutely have to teach rules and guidelines. In the case you described I would probably take away a priviledge or something. A toy perhaps.
I am learning as I go here. But I do try to follow the experts guidelines. There are also many moms here I have a great deal of respect for, and have learned things like reward systems - something I am finding is working. Yes, it may take longer this way, but I think the end result is better. Also, I think that there are times and situations (not all parents, but I think it is a danger) where spanking can get out of control and lead to more. That's not a chance I am ever willing to take.
I have never abused my parents. I have never abused anyone. I wasn't spanked. My husband is one of the kindest, respectful people I know. He was never spanked. We were both given time outs, loss of priveledges and when we were older, grounded. We turned out pretty good I think. So there are alternatives.
I don't judge parents who believe in spanking. It's just not the right thing for me, and again, if asked I will give my opinion on it.
I am learning as I go here. But I do try to follow the experts guidelines. There are also many moms here I have a great deal of respect for, and have learned things like reward systems - something I am finding is working. Yes, it may take longer this way, but I think the end result is better. Also, I think that there are times and situations (not all parents, but I think it is a danger) where spanking can get out of control and lead to more. That's not a chance I am ever willing to take.
I have never abused my parents. I have never abused anyone. I wasn't spanked. My husband is one of the kindest, respectful people I know. He was never spanked. We were both given time outs, loss of priveledges and when we were older, grounded. We turned out pretty good I think. So there are alternatives.
I don't judge parents who believe in spanking. It's just not the right thing for me, and again, if asked I will give my opinion on it.
Ok+margy.i+would+like+to+make+this+argument.my+ex+had+3+children.they+did+alot+of+misbehaving.she+made+them+stand+in+corners.took+bike+priveleges+away.which+was+their+favorite+thing+to+do+ride+bikes.what+happens+when+u+do+all+that.with+no+improvement.
The dad and the mom in question would work on their problems so they both agreed on fitting punishments , which would be dependent on age ...time outs and loss of privileges the children enjoy ...consistency, respect...quietness, decent behavior..
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Look, you can discipline your children how you see fit. I'm not here to judge you or anyone else. I gave the original poster my opinion as did the others. I personally don't spank. To me, spanking is hitting. I don't see the difference. The American Pediatric Association no longer recommends physical punishment. I tend to follow the guidelines listed there in most things. If you choose to spank, that's up to you. But please respect mine and others that feel the same way I do as well. My child does have strong guidelines in place, he does not just do whatever he wants, and when we have a disciplinary issue my methods have worked quite well with him. I am his mother, and this is my decision to make. When asked my opinion on a subject, I give it. The poster can take what they like or ignore the whole thing..up to them. But I am beginning to feel like you are trying to convince me otherwise by telling me that he is going to grow up the wrong way. I was not spanked, and turned out fine. I intend to do the same.
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If my child were bullying a special needs child or any child for that matter, me bullying him is not going to teach him it's wrong. There would definately be a punishment and teaching involved, but no, I wouldn't hit him. I think that hitting kids makes them bully other children, because part of the message is "I am bigger and stronger, therefor I can treat you as I like". Same thing a bully does right?
I also was not spanked. I was yelled at, and that was bad enough. It made me fearful and that is about it. I am respectful of others (although am not perfect by any means), and I also respect my son. If I displeased my husband (overspent the charge card or something) and he hit me (even just a whack on the butt)? I'd charge him with abuse. What's the difference.
I also was not spanked. I was yelled at, and that was bad enough. It made me fearful and that is about it. I am respectful of others (although am not perfect by any means), and I also respect my son. If I displeased my husband (overspent the charge card or something) and he hit me (even just a whack on the butt)? I'd charge him with abuse. What's the difference.
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Sorry Oriole hitting is hitting however you describe it ... I was never hit as I child, not once,not even one of these 'pops' one hears about, I grew up respectful because I was treated that way .,I also grew with a self esteem and a good character. I do know that children who were hit and not respected grew up to do it to others and had many problems in their lives ...I don't care if its called 'popping' spanking' or any other combination, its hitting another human being ..and I don't believe that's right unless hes attacking me then I would have to 'whack ' him but ..that's self defence ...when children are hit its out of a need to control ........
COMMUNITY LEADER
I forgot to mention that there are several good series of books aimed at the 4 to 7 year old child. They are meant to be read aloud to the kids (which is a nice thing to do just before bed). The books are highly illustrated and also entertaining. There is the, "Best Behavior Series", the "Learning to Get Along Series", and "The Way I Feel Series. " You can get a feeling for them here - http://www.amazon.com/Hands-Hitting-Ages-Best-Behavior/dp/1575420775
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Ugh...there is nothing that annoys me more than Proverbs 13:24 being misquoted and used as an excuse to hit or beat your children. I also find it funny that some people who quote that verse don't have a clue of 1) where it's located in the book of Proverbs, and 2) the intended meaning of this verse, which is more than just "spare the rod..." The whole verse in its entirety is "Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them."
However, most people only quote the "spare the rod" part. The actual context of the "rod" is meant in terms of a shepherd's rod--that long stick with a crook--if you've noticed, the Bible compares people to sheep and God to a shepherd quite a bit. In this case, the parent is the shepherd. A shepherd looks after and protects the sheep with that rod in hand, which is used to herd the sheep closer to the shepherd (my mom raises sheep, so the whole shepherd's rod thing is familiar to me); the crook of the rod is used to pull sheep in closer to the flock or shepherd gently by its neck. But you never hear, read, or see illustrations with a shepherd hitting or beating sheep with that rod. It is used as a protective tool. The verse "Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them," is not meant to be taken as hit or beat your children with a rod, for goodness' sake...it's meant to be taken as, if you let your children run willy-nilly with no boundaries and care nothing about it, then you care nothing for your children; those who love their children use their "rod" of authority to keep their children close, establish boundaries, and protect their children.
"Discipline" comes from the word "desciple," or "pupil." Basically, your children are disciplined to be taught. They are students of your lifestyle--the values and morals you hold and wish to pass on to them.
Anyway.
elizabeth22, it just sounds as if the boys need boundaries established and consistency applied to the discipline that comes with remaining in those boundaries. It won't be an easy task training the boys if they're so used to things as they are now, but with the advice of the others above and the recommendation of the books listed, I think the kids can be much better behaved in a matter of weeks.
You are not a failure as a parent! I like the way adgal put it: "But don't give up on yourself any more then you would give up on your kids. None of us are perfect parents."
However, most people only quote the "spare the rod" part. The actual context of the "rod" is meant in terms of a shepherd's rod--that long stick with a crook--if you've noticed, the Bible compares people to sheep and God to a shepherd quite a bit. In this case, the parent is the shepherd. A shepherd looks after and protects the sheep with that rod in hand, which is used to herd the sheep closer to the shepherd (my mom raises sheep, so the whole shepherd's rod thing is familiar to me); the crook of the rod is used to pull sheep in closer to the flock or shepherd gently by its neck. But you never hear, read, or see illustrations with a shepherd hitting or beating sheep with that rod. It is used as a protective tool. The verse "Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them," is not meant to be taken as hit or beat your children with a rod, for goodness' sake...it's meant to be taken as, if you let your children run willy-nilly with no boundaries and care nothing about it, then you care nothing for your children; those who love their children use their "rod" of authority to keep their children close, establish boundaries, and protect their children.
"Discipline" comes from the word "desciple," or "pupil." Basically, your children are disciplined to be taught. They are students of your lifestyle--the values and morals you hold and wish to pass on to them.
Anyway.
elizabeth22, it just sounds as if the boys need boundaries established and consistency applied to the discipline that comes with remaining in those boundaries. It won't be an easy task training the boys if they're so used to things as they are now, but with the advice of the others above and the recommendation of the books listed, I think the kids can be much better behaved in a matter of weeks.
You are not a failure as a parent! I like the way adgal put it: "But don't give up on yourself any more then you would give up on your kids. None of us are perfect parents."
I also agree with Sandman. As far as I am concerned the only thing hitting a child teaches them is to fear you. I don't want my child to be afraid of me. And yes, timeouts and reward systems work. Hitting, yelling, etc. are just not effective means of discipline. At least in my opinion.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Ya right, as a kid I learned to start crying as soon as my dad started spanking me, and he would stop immediately. Being the adult means just that - not beating the kid till he figures out when to cry. When my dad stopped spanking and resorted to making us work off our misdeeds, that's when I began to become a lot more careful. Timeouts do work - if done correctly!
The Bible also says "an eye for an eye," etc. Ouch.
The Bible also says "an eye for an eye," etc. Ouch.
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