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WELCOME one and all to the Chronic Kidney Failure in Dogs Group
I hope you will join this Group and become a valuable and active member. Through this Group, we can help each other with suggestions, advice, support and information about this dreadful disease and how best we can manage treatments for our best friends. As a starting point, please have a read of my article on diet at: http://www.infobarrel.com/How_Diet_Affects_Dogs_with_Chronic_Kidney_Disease
I have tried my very best to put as much useful information as possible in this piece, but if your questions and concerns are not answered in the piece, please start a thread and post your comments. To help track your thread, please head it with the name of your dog.
I have tried my very best to put as much useful information as possible in this piece, but if your questions and concerns are not answered in the piece, please start a thread and post your comments. To help track your thread, please head it with the name of your dog.
Hi Tony,
So my Vet is now talking about quality of life and doing the "right thing" for Chance and saying things like "I hate to say that she is 15 cause some dogs live healthy to 17 but she is 15 "... I am not there yet. We are getting a second opinion form another Vet in the next couple of days.
So Doogan was on KD canned food and then we went onto home cooking. We bought that powder that you add to food for vitamins and minerals ( Hilary's blend Renal supplement) but he hated it ..the smell is very strong . If we wanted to start home cooking for Chance how would I do this..? So just to confirm Hills KD canned is not better in terms of protein and phosphorous levels compared to Royal Canin Mature consult canned?
Thanks,
Nancy
So my Vet is now talking about quality of life and doing the "right thing" for Chance and saying things like "I hate to say that she is 15 cause some dogs live healthy to 17 but she is 15 "... I am not there yet. We are getting a second opinion form another Vet in the next couple of days.
So Doogan was on KD canned food and then we went onto home cooking. We bought that powder that you add to food for vitamins and minerals ( Hilary's blend Renal supplement) but he hated it ..the smell is very strong . If we wanted to start home cooking for Chance how would I do this..? So just to confirm Hills KD canned is not better in terms of protein and phosphorous levels compared to Royal Canin Mature consult canned?
Thanks,
Nancy
1 Comments
Forget about protein restriction. It really isn't nearly as important as phosphorus right now. As long as the protein you give is human grade meats, that will be fine. I would stick with Hills kd ... add a teaspoon of honey or organic coconut oil and a tablespoon of cooked and chopped green cabbage, and see if he takes it. Great that you're getting a 2nd vet for an opinion ... please, please mention the phosphate binder. It's so important.
Tony
Tony
Hi Tony,
So just got some more blood work done on Chance, my 15 year old with chronic kidney disease. It appears that she has slipped up to stage 3.
Her blood results as of 2 days ago are... creatinine 262, urea 20, phosphorous 1.7 and her BUN 20.4.
Her protein in her blood work was normal but she is a bit anemic.
We just brought another sample of urine to have a protein test done on it.
Would love to know your thoughts.
She has been eating Royal Canine Mature consult canned dog food for a few years now when she was first diagnosed with chronic kidney issues.
We have tried the omega supplements but they give her diarrhea but I do give her a bit of salmon or sardines once a week. She is on aventi ks nutritional support, glucosamine chondrotin pills for arthritis , a probiotic, metronidazole for her bowel issues and the vet is thinking about putting her on Forticor...which Doogan was on. (our beagle that passed away in December 2015).
Thanks as always,
Nancy
So just got some more blood work done on Chance, my 15 year old with chronic kidney disease. It appears that she has slipped up to stage 3.
Her blood results as of 2 days ago are... creatinine 262, urea 20, phosphorous 1.7 and her BUN 20.4.
Her protein in her blood work was normal but she is a bit anemic.
We just brought another sample of urine to have a protein test done on it.
Would love to know your thoughts.
She has been eating Royal Canine Mature consult canned dog food for a few years now when she was first diagnosed with chronic kidney issues.
We have tried the omega supplements but they give her diarrhea but I do give her a bit of salmon or sardines once a week. She is on aventi ks nutritional support, glucosamine chondrotin pills for arthritis , a probiotic, metronidazole for her bowel issues and the vet is thinking about putting her on Forticor...which Doogan was on. (our beagle that passed away in December 2015).
Thanks as always,
Nancy
4 Comments
Hi. Forticor (Benazepril) is a good idea, as it will help widen blood vessels and improve blood flow to the kidneys. There is of course a downside too, insofar as your vet will need to keep a very close eye on what's happening to blood pressure, to make sure it doesn't fall rapidly; and it will add some toxins to the blood load, although most of this medication is filtered by the liver - so it would be advantageous to add some Milk Thistle to the supplements list, just to add some protection to this organ.
At stage 3, you now need to restrict protein and (more importantly) phosphorus even more. Royal Canine Mature has about 25% protein on a dry matter basis, which is now too much. The aim for protein is to get it down to about 12%. Phosphorus content is about 0.6%, which is acceptable for early stage kidney failure, but again this is now really too much for Chance.
That said, the protein and phosphorus content of Royal Canine Mature is about the same as the best alternative renal foods, such as Hills kd.
So, the question is whether to continue with it or look at the next alternative, which is probably home cooking. But that presents its own set of problems ... time and effort, getting the ingredients right and ensuring sufficient vitamins and minerals are provided.
Is Chance on a Phosphate Binder (sorry, without back reading I don't know)?
I'm wondering what is in the ks nutritional support? Could that be contributing to the problem? Is there a reason you decided to give this?
The anaemia is not uncommon in kd dogs, but it does need dealing with otherwise it will worsen and become a major health concern. Has your vet done an erythropoietin test? This is the first thing needed, as it will help identify whether it is this abnormality that's causing the low red blood cell count. If it isn't, then you are safe to give a medication such as Aranesp (darbepoetin alfa), which will help correct the anaemia. You can also use a supplement form of this, from Thriving Pets. Just ensure the erythropoietin test is done first and discuss the options and testing with your vet before proceeding.
Tony
At stage 3, you now need to restrict protein and (more importantly) phosphorus even more. Royal Canine Mature has about 25% protein on a dry matter basis, which is now too much. The aim for protein is to get it down to about 12%. Phosphorus content is about 0.6%, which is acceptable for early stage kidney failure, but again this is now really too much for Chance.
That said, the protein and phosphorus content of Royal Canine Mature is about the same as the best alternative renal foods, such as Hills kd.
So, the question is whether to continue with it or look at the next alternative, which is probably home cooking. But that presents its own set of problems ... time and effort, getting the ingredients right and ensuring sufficient vitamins and minerals are provided.
Is Chance on a Phosphate Binder (sorry, without back reading I don't know)?
I'm wondering what is in the ks nutritional support? Could that be contributing to the problem? Is there a reason you decided to give this?
The anaemia is not uncommon in kd dogs, but it does need dealing with otherwise it will worsen and become a major health concern. Has your vet done an erythropoietin test? This is the first thing needed, as it will help identify whether it is this abnormality that's causing the low red blood cell count. If it isn't, then you are safe to give a medication such as Aranesp (darbepoetin alfa), which will help correct the anaemia. You can also use a supplement form of this, from Thriving Pets. Just ensure the erythropoietin test is done first and discuss the options and testing with your vet before proceeding.
Tony
Hi Tony
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly with so much valuable info as usual.
So Chance is not on a phosphate binder at the moment as her phos levels have been in the normal range although slightly going up. 1.72 mmol/L ( range is 0.81-2.20). A few months ago (end of May) it was 1.53 and December 2015 phos was 1.31 mmol/L.
The Aventi Ks powder is a nutritional supplement promoting normal kidney function is made by Candioli and she has been on it for a few years now..since she was first diagnosed with kidney disease. My Vet suggested this. Ingredients are :
per 2 gram scoop : (she gets 3 scoops per day as she is about 43 lbs.
Fructooligosaccharides
Lactobacillus acidophilus
Vitamin C 100mg
B12 200 mcg
Folic Acid 4mg
Vitamin B6 10mg
Citrus bioflavonoids 100mg
Enterococcus Faecium
I will ask about the anemia test and start her on Forticor and milk thistle.
My Vet just also started her on 100 mg Gabapentin per day (at night) to help with pain management as she has been restless , panting and some pacing on and off through the night. No longer able to sleep in our bedroom with us as she has done all her life.
My Vet says this drug is ok for Kidney Disease in low doses unlike steroids and other pain meds. I just looked it up however and found that it is excreted solely through the kidneys and can cause toxicity.Now I am scared to give it. She just started this week has been on it for 3 nights.
Chance is also on fortiflora probiotic as she had Giardia a few months ago with lots of explosive diahrea that has taken weeks to get over. She was treated with Metroindazole which she is still taking and Fenbendazole for 5 days. Every time we try to stop the Metroindazole she gets diahrea in the house and falls in it as she is weak in the back end from arthritis. She is also taking 2 tablets a day of glucosamine Chondrotin and a cartriphen injection monthly.
Thanks,
Nancy
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly with so much valuable info as usual.
So Chance is not on a phosphate binder at the moment as her phos levels have been in the normal range although slightly going up. 1.72 mmol/L ( range is 0.81-2.20). A few months ago (end of May) it was 1.53 and December 2015 phos was 1.31 mmol/L.
The Aventi Ks powder is a nutritional supplement promoting normal kidney function is made by Candioli and she has been on it for a few years now..since she was first diagnosed with kidney disease. My Vet suggested this. Ingredients are :
per 2 gram scoop : (she gets 3 scoops per day as she is about 43 lbs.
Fructooligosaccharides
Lactobacillus acidophilus
Vitamin C 100mg
B12 200 mcg
Folic Acid 4mg
Vitamin B6 10mg
Citrus bioflavonoids 100mg
Enterococcus Faecium
I will ask about the anemia test and start her on Forticor and milk thistle.
My Vet just also started her on 100 mg Gabapentin per day (at night) to help with pain management as she has been restless , panting and some pacing on and off through the night. No longer able to sleep in our bedroom with us as she has done all her life.
My Vet says this drug is ok for Kidney Disease in low doses unlike steroids and other pain meds. I just looked it up however and found that it is excreted solely through the kidneys and can cause toxicity.Now I am scared to give it. She just started this week has been on it for 3 nights.
Chance is also on fortiflora probiotic as she had Giardia a few months ago with lots of explosive diahrea that has taken weeks to get over. She was treated with Metroindazole which she is still taking and Fenbendazole for 5 days. Every time we try to stop the Metroindazole she gets diahrea in the house and falls in it as she is weak in the back end from arthritis. She is also taking 2 tablets a day of glucosamine Chondrotin and a cartriphen injection monthly.
Thanks,
Nancy
me again...
I forgot to mention that Chance is also on Omeprazole anti-acid and her blood serum protein was normal but her urine protein test is slightly going up. 0.4 (reference range is 0.0-0.2). A month ago it was 0.3.
Thanks again,
Nancy
I forgot to mention that Chance is also on Omeprazole anti-acid and her blood serum protein was normal but her urine protein test is slightly going up. 0.4 (reference range is 0.0-0.2). A month ago it was 0.3.
Thanks again,
Nancy
Okay. Most of the meds are fine, as far as I am aware. Of course, all meds tend to be dealt with through the kidneys, so it's a Catch 22 scenario. I would certainly start a phosphate binder now(ish). There is growing evidence that starting one early is better - and I would tend to opt for aluminium hydroxide, if your vet agrees to it. The problem in delaying it (old school idea) is that parathyroid hormone starts to cause issues and calcium starts to be drawn from bone and teeth, because the body tries to get the balance between phosphorus and calcium right. But rising phosphorus just keeps causing the problem, so the body draws more and more calcium from bones and teeth, until hyperkalaemia occurs to compound things. More info on this in my Phosphate Binders article, which is available on my website.
Tony
Tony
Hi. Sorry you need to be here, but welcome anyway. This is more likely (but not necessarily) acute rather than chronic kidney problem, simply due to your dog's age. For now, it actually doesn't make much difference, as the treatment is exactly the same. If it's acute, your dog will recover and not continue to suffer the ill-effects of a degenerating disease, which sadly is what happens in chronic variants of kidney disease. I am curious about why your vet wants to "open her up" - there's absolutely no reason for this so do not allow them to do it, unless they suspect there is something other than kidney disease happening.
Your dog needs to be on IV Fluids - and I'm assuming that's what she is getting while at the vet's. Once that treatment has finished, you need to begin SubQ fluid therapy at home - a treatment that you need your vet to instruct you on.
New blood tests will be needed in a week's time to see if the fluid therapy has had any effect.
Your vet should also perform a urinalysis checking for protein leakage and any infections. They should also perform a blood pressure reading.
If this is acute kidney problems, then there will be a reason for it and that's usually something your dog may have eaten (including human medicines, household or garden chemicals, and other such substances). If it is chronic, then it may have been happening for many months and even some years, even though symptoms have only now started to show.
Hope this helps. Do let us know how things go.
Tony
Your dog needs to be on IV Fluids - and I'm assuming that's what she is getting while at the vet's. Once that treatment has finished, you need to begin SubQ fluid therapy at home - a treatment that you need your vet to instruct you on.
New blood tests will be needed in a week's time to see if the fluid therapy has had any effect.
Your vet should also perform a urinalysis checking for protein leakage and any infections. They should also perform a blood pressure reading.
If this is acute kidney problems, then there will be a reason for it and that's usually something your dog may have eaten (including human medicines, household or garden chemicals, and other such substances). If it is chronic, then it may have been happening for many months and even some years, even though symptoms have only now started to show.
Hope this helps. Do let us know how things go.
Tony
I guess I was in the wrong group. Rosie had closed pyometra. That's what was causing her kidneys to fail. Vet saw it too late. She was already too weak for surgery. She died this morning.
1 Comments
I am truly very sorry to hear that. Run free Rosie. :(
Well, according to the vet today, she's not in a very good state. If she gains strength tomorrow, they might have to open her up. If not, then it's just a matter of time before Rosie passes on. It's all happening waay too fast.
Hi. Just signed up on this group. Came back from the vet today. Brought our 6-yr old Lhasa Apso, Rosie for confinement. A week and a half ago, she just lost her appetite and was very lethargic and quiet. Then after 5 days, she seemed to get better on her own and started eating again. She also seemed active again. After two days, it was back to no eating with constant urination, drinking and vomiting. It just seemed so sudden.
Long story short, the first vet we brought her to conducted a blood test. BUN 13.5 (normal 2.9-10.0), creatinine 175.26 (normal 44-150), SGPT 35.2 (normal 10-109). I don't know what these numbers mean but when we transferred her to another vet (another story), we were told that she has kidney problems and that it's irreversible. She's confined at the clinic now for the next three days but we aren't sure yet what kind of kidney disease she has. There's chronic and there's acute right? We're just very worried and confused at this point. I hope we find out for sure what she has. I've been reading the posts here about kidney disease and it seems like it's something that most dogs won't live through and I feel very very sad. And guilty for not being with her now. I guess I'm here to find a little support. Rosie is our first dog. I didn't think one could be this emotional over a pet. It's no different from children.
Long story short, the first vet we brought her to conducted a blood test. BUN 13.5 (normal 2.9-10.0), creatinine 175.26 (normal 44-150), SGPT 35.2 (normal 10-109). I don't know what these numbers mean but when we transferred her to another vet (another story), we were told that she has kidney problems and that it's irreversible. She's confined at the clinic now for the next three days but we aren't sure yet what kind of kidney disease she has. There's chronic and there's acute right? We're just very worried and confused at this point. I hope we find out for sure what she has. I've been reading the posts here about kidney disease and it seems like it's something that most dogs won't live through and I feel very very sad. And guilty for not being with her now. I guess I'm here to find a little support. Rosie is our first dog. I didn't think one could be this emotional over a pet. It's no different from children.
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