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WELCOME one and all to the Chronic Kidney Failure in Dogs Group
I hope you will join this Group and become a valuable and active member. Through this Group, we can help each other with suggestions, advice, support and information about this dreadful disease and how best we can manage treatments for our best friends. As a starting point, please have a read of my article on diet at: http://www.infobarrel.com/How_Diet_Affects_Dogs_with_Chronic_Kidney_Disease
I have tried my very best to put as much useful information as possible in this piece, but if your questions and concerns are not answered in the piece, please start a thread and post your comments. To help track your thread, please head it with the name of your dog.
I have tried my very best to put as much useful information as possible in this piece, but if your questions and concerns are not answered in the piece, please start a thread and post your comments. To help track your thread, please head it with the name of your dog.
Hi. I am new to the group. I have a 12.5 year old Shelty who has been diagnosed with early chronic renal failure about a month ago. I don't know the numbers but the vet said that he has given her a newer test which shows failure sooner. Her blood pressure was good. She is drinking a lot and regurgitating water a lot the last few days. She is now on a kd diet and taking Epakitin. The vet said that I should start giving Pepcid if Fleecey is doing a lot of vomiting. I assume that he means this regurgitating. Does that make sense? Thanks.
1 Comments
Hi and welcome to our Group. The test is likely to be the SDMA test. While that is very good at picking up kidneys issues early, it is not in itself a diagnostic test. Your vet will still need a full blood panel test, a urinalysis and a blood pressure check. Do make sure these are done. If she is indeed in early stage kidney failure, then a kd diet is inapproriate and could make things slightly worse. The important thing here is to get the blood test results, as we can then advise properly about diet and other management measures.
Tony
Tony
Hello Eric. Yes, creatinine 5.2 is suggesting final stages even at diagnosis. I think the fluids wouldn't have worked, probably because there was too little kidney tissue remaining. The disease destroys the organs bit by bit until there's not enough left to complete any level of function.
Again, I am very sorry for your loss.
Tony
Again, I am very sorry for your loss.
Tony
Hi. I am so sorry for your loss. Please accept my sincere condolences.
The loss of a pet dog is like no other loss. It runs very deep in many people (in my opinion, in the best of people). Our dogs are our friends, family, companions and confidants. More, they are at our side for most of their lives. They share our days, our adventures and our love and devotion. It is therefore no wonder we miss them so much when they have to leave us.
The big problem with kidney failure is it is firstly incurable. We can try our best to improve the function of the kidneys or make the work they need to do less stressful on health, but we cannot stop it. Second, unless we have an ultra-sound done every week, we cannot truly know how much of the organ remains functioning. In the end, the kidney may be struggling to work with perhaps only 10%-20% of tissue remaining - and that means a dog will decline rapidly, regardless of what a vet or an owner might do. In humans, there is both dialysis and (for some) transplantation ... but this is neither practical nor affordable for most dog owners.
Guilt about ending our best friend's suffering is a very common experience. But I believe you did all you possibly could and chose to help your best friend in the only way (and the right way) when the usual kidney management protocols stopped working. There is no need and no cause for guilt, but I do empathise and understand how and why you feel that way. If you can, try to remember what a wonderful life you gave her. Remember the happy times (that ultimately far outweighed the final days of her life). She was lucky to have had you as her owner - and you were lucky to have shared her life with her.
I hope the coming days and weeks see your grief start to subside. And we are here to talk to, if you need us.
Tony
The loss of a pet dog is like no other loss. It runs very deep in many people (in my opinion, in the best of people). Our dogs are our friends, family, companions and confidants. More, they are at our side for most of their lives. They share our days, our adventures and our love and devotion. It is therefore no wonder we miss them so much when they have to leave us.
The big problem with kidney failure is it is firstly incurable. We can try our best to improve the function of the kidneys or make the work they need to do less stressful on health, but we cannot stop it. Second, unless we have an ultra-sound done every week, we cannot truly know how much of the organ remains functioning. In the end, the kidney may be struggling to work with perhaps only 10%-20% of tissue remaining - and that means a dog will decline rapidly, regardless of what a vet or an owner might do. In humans, there is both dialysis and (for some) transplantation ... but this is neither practical nor affordable for most dog owners.
Guilt about ending our best friend's suffering is a very common experience. But I believe you did all you possibly could and chose to help your best friend in the only way (and the right way) when the usual kidney management protocols stopped working. There is no need and no cause for guilt, but I do empathise and understand how and why you feel that way. If you can, try to remember what a wonderful life you gave her. Remember the happy times (that ultimately far outweighed the final days of her life). She was lucky to have had you as her owner - and you were lucky to have shared her life with her.
I hope the coming days and weeks see your grief start to subside. And we are here to talk to, if you need us.
Tony
4 Comments
Tony, Thank you so much for all your kind words and support. I appreciate it and it means a lot to me.
It is still hard for me to accept that she is gone. Now I am asking myself, what if my vet was wrong about her condition giving her couple of days.
Can you tell anything about her last blood work. The numbers are above.
I wish I found that website earlier so maybe we could extend her life a bit longer.
And I don't understand why some vet doesn't want to treat that disease. I saw three different vets in Chicago and only one suggested to try treatment.
Thank you,
Eric.
It is still hard for me to accept that she is gone. Now I am asking myself, what if my vet was wrong about her condition giving her couple of days.
Can you tell anything about her last blood work. The numbers are above.
I wish I found that website earlier so maybe we could extend her life a bit longer.
And I don't understand why some vet doesn't want to treat that disease. I saw three different vets in Chicago and only one suggested to try treatment.
Thank you,
Eric.
Hi Eric. Well, that's a hard question to answer, because all dogs with this disease are so very different and while some do rally with good management, others simply don't no matter what might be tried. One thing I can say is that early stage 3 is not what the bloods tell me ... it looks to me like very late stage 3 or even early stage 4 (final stages). The phosphorus was very high, which means a phosphorus binder would have been needed to control more and more toxins being produced. She may have rallied with extensive IV fluid therapy, which would have needed to be undertaken at the vets for several days, followed by SubQ fluids given by yourself or the vet at home. A complete diet re-think would also have been needed. The point I'm trying to make is it would have been very intensive and very expensive to attempt, and with no guarantee of success. In the end, you made the decision along with your vet's advice, and rather than second-guess what management and treatment might have achieved, be contented knowing you and your vet feel you did the right thing at the right time - and more importantly, you did it to help prevent further suffering.
I know how hard it is. But try to think about the years of happy times you both shared. Times that you supplied.
Tony
I know how hard it is. But try to think about the years of happy times you both shared. Times that you supplied.
Tony
Hey Tony. Thank you again for all the support.
About four weeks before the Valentine's Day we took her to the vet for blood check up and at that time her creatine was 5.2
I don't recall the rest blood work. We immidietly started IV fluids for three days, 10 hours per day.
After the three days IV fluids we did a blood work again and the vet said it didn't go well as she planned. She said continue medication, diet and SubQ fluids at home, every day 100 ml. So we did it for almost four weeks, every day but it didn't help to flush out her toxins. She got really sick four days before Valentine's Day. And Lili was 7 lbs.
Thank you.
Eric
About four weeks before the Valentine's Day we took her to the vet for blood check up and at that time her creatine was 5.2
I don't recall the rest blood work. We immidietly started IV fluids for three days, 10 hours per day.
After the three days IV fluids we did a blood work again and the vet said it didn't go well as she planned. She said continue medication, diet and SubQ fluids at home, every day 100 ml. So we did it for almost four weeks, every day but it didn't help to flush out her toxins. She got really sick four days before Valentine's Day. And Lili was 7 lbs.
Thank you.
Eric
I am slowly letting her go but still feel guilty that I didn't put her to the hospital. I just didn't want her to suffer more. Last four days she was so poor and uncomfortable.
Hey all. On Valentine's Day I lost my Yorkie, Lili she was 12. She was diagnosed 10 months ago with early stage 3. We did a lot of effort to safe her, but she didn't response well for any treatment given. Her last blood work from 2/13/15. Creatine 4.6, BUN 130, phosphorus 16.1. Last four days suddenly she got very sick, bad breath, no eating, barely drank water, strong seizure and paralyzed on the left side, she didn't want to be touched at all, she started pooping with blood, slept nonstop, lost balance too. We decided to help her with that suffering and we put her to sleep on Valentine's Day. I still feel guilty of that decision and question myself maybe I didn't do enough to safe her.
How you all deal with a loss?
Thanks, Eric.
How you all deal with a loss?
Thanks, Eric.
I am not sure how to join the group. I did set up a user and password but I'm not sure I joined the group. My five year old yorkie is in kidney failure, probably from eating chicken jerky her whole life. She was diagnosed May 2015 right before her fifth birthday. After an initial round of IV's, Azodyl twice a day and Science Diet K/D dog food she did well for about three months and then she was readmitted for more fluid treatment. Now it seems she is admitted for 3-4 day intervals about once every six weeks. She is back again today. Her BUN levels were 52 today and she has refused food for two days. She weighs 4 pounds and is like my child. I know she is frightened to death. I cannot imagine my life without her. I am glad I found this group.
1 Comments
Hi. Yes you have joined the group. There has been a huge problem with chicken jerky (mainly originating from China but sometimes packaged selling from USA) for several years. I think I wrote about it about 5yrs ago on some of the dog sites. You and your vet should report the problem to the FDA (as they are still investigating it and gathering data).
Okay. Kidney disease can start out as acute - but then develop into chronic kidney disease. This is because a large amount of organ tissue is destroyed during the poisoning. In a dog so young, there is the chance of recovery as long as it is caught early enough and not too much of the kidneys become destroyed. I suspect, in this case, the kidneys have been severely compromised - which means this is now a chronic condition.
Can you ask your vet for the blood and urine test results from the point of diagnosis. They should have these on their records (unless you have them in your possession). Please post these results for me to look at.
Can you then also post a full set of the latest results. I am particularly interested in creatinine, phosphorus, potassium, calcium, sodium, PVC and haemoglobin. But if there are others, please just post all of them (remember to put the unit of measure after each one).
Next, has your vet done a blood pressure check? If not, it needs doing.
Has there been a recent urine sample test for specific gravity, protein leakage and any infection. If not, this also needs doing.
Is the Science kd diet you mention the Hills canned variety?
If she is refusing food, please ask the vet to prescribe Mirtzapine. This should help improve nausea, appetite and anxiety all at the same time.
Tony
Okay. Kidney disease can start out as acute - but then develop into chronic kidney disease. This is because a large amount of organ tissue is destroyed during the poisoning. In a dog so young, there is the chance of recovery as long as it is caught early enough and not too much of the kidneys become destroyed. I suspect, in this case, the kidneys have been severely compromised - which means this is now a chronic condition.
Can you ask your vet for the blood and urine test results from the point of diagnosis. They should have these on their records (unless you have them in your possession). Please post these results for me to look at.
Can you then also post a full set of the latest results. I am particularly interested in creatinine, phosphorus, potassium, calcium, sodium, PVC and haemoglobin. But if there are others, please just post all of them (remember to put the unit of measure after each one).
Next, has your vet done a blood pressure check? If not, it needs doing.
Has there been a recent urine sample test for specific gravity, protein leakage and any infection. If not, this also needs doing.
Is the Science kd diet you mention the Hills canned variety?
If she is refusing food, please ask the vet to prescribe Mirtzapine. This should help improve nausea, appetite and anxiety all at the same time.
Tony
Hi Nancy.
Dry dog food has NIL water content, other than water that is added. But the important point about all dry dog food is it is always always always less nutritious than a good quality canned dog food. Dry food also generally contains far more bad things ... more preservatives, more colourants and more chemicals. All these things can lead to kidney failure - and they certainly are not good for a dog that already has kidney failure. So, my advice, never feed any dog with dry food, not ever. It was designed for human convenience at the expense of dog health.
Raw diets are actually interesting. They have become more popular in recent years, partly due to dog owners feeling that manufactured dog food has a variety of health concerns. Owners are also getting told how it is a more natural diet for dogs, whose ancestors were of course wild wolves. But all of this is only part of the truth. Dogs today are very different from their ancestors. Multiple breeding techniques have caused extreme changes to domesticated dogs. Could we call a Pug a wolf today ... NO ... so why should we expect him to eat a diet a wolf would choose.
There are lots of other issues about raw dog food ... mainly about quality of the meat, how and where to store it and whether it has enough nutritional value on its own. In most cases only the highest quality sourced meats are suitable as a raw diet for dogs, and this can be very expensive to obtain. It must be stored in a spotlessly clean cold area, such as a fridge, and must be used within a specified time (as with all meats). More importantly, all meats develop bacteria over time, and the bacteria can be more harmful to humans coming in to contact with it than the dogs that are eating it, so this must also be considered when storing raw foods. And as for nutritional value ... it's usual for raw diets to have various vitamins and other supplements added, as this is necessary to maintain good health of the dog.
Raw diets are a complex issue. Generally speaking, I advocate raw diets as a healthy choice, but only if it is started at a young age and if the meat obtained is of the very highest quality. I would strongly suggest you read up on the subject - just Google raw diets for dogs, and you'll find lots of information.
Onto other matters ... at 15, Chance is an elderly dog and some muscle and weight loss is expected. However, it would be interesting to see what the current blood values say, so I would certainly get a repeat test done as soon as you can. It may be that she has moved into stage 3 by now, in which case some tweaking of the diet will be necessary.
Tony
Dry dog food has NIL water content, other than water that is added. But the important point about all dry dog food is it is always always always less nutritious than a good quality canned dog food. Dry food also generally contains far more bad things ... more preservatives, more colourants and more chemicals. All these things can lead to kidney failure - and they certainly are not good for a dog that already has kidney failure. So, my advice, never feed any dog with dry food, not ever. It was designed for human convenience at the expense of dog health.
Raw diets are actually interesting. They have become more popular in recent years, partly due to dog owners feeling that manufactured dog food has a variety of health concerns. Owners are also getting told how it is a more natural diet for dogs, whose ancestors were of course wild wolves. But all of this is only part of the truth. Dogs today are very different from their ancestors. Multiple breeding techniques have caused extreme changes to domesticated dogs. Could we call a Pug a wolf today ... NO ... so why should we expect him to eat a diet a wolf would choose.
There are lots of other issues about raw dog food ... mainly about quality of the meat, how and where to store it and whether it has enough nutritional value on its own. In most cases only the highest quality sourced meats are suitable as a raw diet for dogs, and this can be very expensive to obtain. It must be stored in a spotlessly clean cold area, such as a fridge, and must be used within a specified time (as with all meats). More importantly, all meats develop bacteria over time, and the bacteria can be more harmful to humans coming in to contact with it than the dogs that are eating it, so this must also be considered when storing raw foods. And as for nutritional value ... it's usual for raw diets to have various vitamins and other supplements added, as this is necessary to maintain good health of the dog.
Raw diets are a complex issue. Generally speaking, I advocate raw diets as a healthy choice, but only if it is started at a young age and if the meat obtained is of the very highest quality. I would strongly suggest you read up on the subject - just Google raw diets for dogs, and you'll find lots of information.
Onto other matters ... at 15, Chance is an elderly dog and some muscle and weight loss is expected. However, it would be interesting to see what the current blood values say, so I would certainly get a repeat test done as soon as you can. It may be that she has moved into stage 3 by now, in which case some tweaking of the diet will be necessary.
Tony
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