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MELD 13 and still drinking in moderation
I have a loved one who is still drinking alcohol "in moderation". He has diabetes, a MELD of 13 and almost died a year ago from bleeding esophageal varices. He was in a coma for three weeks. He does not drink daily anymore, but will still have several glasses of wine at dinner parties or when out with others. How do doctors determine if he is still drinking if his liver takes a serious turn and he needs a transplant? I think he is in denial of his situation. Any thoughts?
Thank you!
Thank you!
COMMUNITY LEADER
I am happy you found this site. We can help you with any questions you have about liver disease. I myself had advanced cirrhosis for many years before needed a liver transplant to stay alive. Yeah is was scary but I had a worse case scenario which thankfully most people never have to experience. Liver disease is most cases is manageable with proper care. The patient does their part (stops drining or cures their hep C for example) and the doctors, if needed do their part to help us if needed.
You have taken the first major/huge step in stopping the progression of any liver disease you may have. If alcohol is the cause of your liver disease once you stop drinking most times the liver can recover from the damage already done. Yes, it is an amazing organ. In most cases it can heal itself once the thing that is causing the injury to the liver is removed.
Please try not to be afraid of finding out about any amount of liver disease you may have by seeing a doctor and having testing performed. Knowledge is power and it can provide incentive to live a healthy lifestyle. Remember any amount of liver disease won't get worse as long as your don't drink alcohol which is toxic to the liver.
Don't feel alone there are many of us living with liver disease, advanced liver disease with serious medical complications and those of us who needed liver transplants to stay alive. Every day I take my meds to stay alive with my new liver, have monthly labs and liver scans every 6 months. It is all doable but if you can avoid a life of liver disease I highly recommend it.:-)
Let us know if we can help in anyway.
Hector
You have taken the first major/huge step in stopping the progression of any liver disease you may have. If alcohol is the cause of your liver disease once you stop drinking most times the liver can recover from the damage already done. Yes, it is an amazing organ. In most cases it can heal itself once the thing that is causing the injury to the liver is removed.
Please try not to be afraid of finding out about any amount of liver disease you may have by seeing a doctor and having testing performed. Knowledge is power and it can provide incentive to live a healthy lifestyle. Remember any amount of liver disease won't get worse as long as your don't drink alcohol which is toxic to the liver.
Don't feel alone there are many of us living with liver disease, advanced liver disease with serious medical complications and those of us who needed liver transplants to stay alive. Every day I take my meds to stay alive with my new liver, have monthly labs and liver scans every 6 months. It is all doable but if you can avoid a life of liver disease I highly recommend it.:-)
Let us know if we can help in anyway.
Hector
Congratulations on quitting drinking alcohol! As a former life time drinker (30 years) I can tell you several things. I stopped drinking alcohol two years ago. I had serious symptoms of liver disease for years following up to my final drink. I never paid attention to them. I did not realize what I was doing to my body. It is never too late to stop drinking. In two years, I have completely turned my health around. I do not know if I have permanent damage. I am getting tests done to see. But the truth may not come out for many years. The thing I have on my side is my age. The person I am speaking of in this thread is 15 years older than me and he is in his 60's. The damage is now irreversible. Hang tight and don't go back to drinking. I know it can "enhance life" as well all THINK it does, but alcohol is actually killing us.
I am so fortunate to have found this site, I still don't have a diagnosis but I am so scared and feel so alone, I just joined this site and feel there are people who understand. I started having symptoms a week ago today and I have not had a drink of alcohol in 4 days now, honestly, I feel better than I have in years but it may be to late, I only need to find out how far the disease has progressed now. Thanks for listening
Hi there. If drinking was the cause of his Cirrhosis it seems evident that alcohol is an issue and he is likely an alcoholic. If that's the case, most alcoholics cannot continue to drink in moderation. He may innocently believe that an occasional glass or 2 of wine will be OK but after time it may turn into 3-4 and so forth and so on.
Given the fact that he was in a coma due to liver failure I am honestly quite shocked that he would resume drinking. As Hector pointed out no one can stop another adult from killing themselves. As a friend you can only give support and hope he will come to the understanding that alcohol isn't needed to have a healthy, happy life.
Best to you
.....Kim
Given the fact that he was in a coma due to liver failure I am honestly quite shocked that he would resume drinking. As Hector pointed out no one can stop another adult from killing themselves. As a friend you can only give support and hope he will come to the understanding that alcohol isn't needed to have a healthy, happy life.
Best to you
.....Kim
Thank you ralph and hector. When he was in his coma last year, the doctors told me to prepare for him to die (if he wakes up) because most people in his situation do not fully understand what happened to them and they go back to drinking. He does not remember most things about the year and a half leading up to his bleeding varices episode and coma. He has no idea how bad he was. That is why he cannot comprehend the severity of his situation.
COMMUNITY LEADER
I totally agree with ralph.
You would think someone who almost died once from a complication of their cirrhosis would have got the wake-up call. You said it yourself, he is in denial of realty.
There is no such thing as moderation when it comes to alcohol and cirrhosis. Every drink is causing more damage to his liver. He is slowly killing himself with every drink.
I see this happen almost every week at our transplant center. There is never a good outcome when a person chooses to continue drinking over staying alive. Sadly it is the loved ones who are most hurt because they are caught in the middle. They want to help but no one can stop another adult from killing themselves.
My best to you.
Hector
You would think someone who almost died once from a complication of their cirrhosis would have got the wake-up call. You said it yourself, he is in denial of realty.
There is no such thing as moderation when it comes to alcohol and cirrhosis. Every drink is causing more damage to his liver. He is slowly killing himself with every drink.
I see this happen almost every week at our transplant center. There is never a good outcome when a person chooses to continue drinking over staying alive. Sadly it is the loved ones who are most hurt because they are caught in the middle. They want to help but no one can stop another adult from killing themselves.
My best to you.
Hector
the short answer is no, no amount is acceptable because it just causes further damage, the liver can no longer repair itself properly, so you have to stop any kind of damage, not just alcohol, but from chemicals that touch the skin etc. eating a liver friendly diet will help, avoid fats and red meat, these things make it work harder.
My question is that he thinks drinking in moderation is ok. I don't. Does anyone have experience with someone who drank successfully "in moderation" with their cirrhosis?
HI there
MELD 13 will mean his liver is very scarred and starting to fail. He is in end stage liver disease. IF he stops then he should get some function back and maybe able to lower his meld, but bleeding risks will remain. Alot can hang on for years with a low meld. But Cirrhosis is mostly progressive even when alcohol is stopped, a lucky few can actually stop it in its tracks.
F3 and F4 are considered progressive even if the cause is stopped, thats why if you get a Fibroscan above 12.5kpa alarm bells ring, its the start of F3 and usually a slow march to liver failure or a quicker one if the cause is not removed.
MELD 13 will mean his liver is very scarred and starting to fail. He is in end stage liver disease. IF he stops then he should get some function back and maybe able to lower his meld, but bleeding risks will remain. Alot can hang on for years with a low meld. But Cirrhosis is mostly progressive even when alcohol is stopped, a lucky few can actually stop it in its tracks.
F3 and F4 are considered progressive even if the cause is stopped, thats why if you get a Fibroscan above 12.5kpa alarm bells ring, its the start of F3 and usually a slow march to liver failure or a quicker one if the cause is not removed.
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Note at most liver transplant centers a person needs a MELD score of at least 15 before they will be listed for a transplant.
In order to be put on a transplant waiting list the person has to go through an evaluation process to determine if they should be given a new organ. The evaluation, is the first step in determining if transplantation is an appropriate treatment option. It also enables the transplant team to assess the medical factors related to the liver failure.
Each transplant center has its own policy regarding liver transplants for patients with alcoholic liver disease. Typically the person has to commit to never drinking again and must prove that they are abstinent for a period of 6 months. While the person is waiting for a new organ (which could take many months to a number of years depending where in the country his is listed) they will be periodically tested for signs of drinking. Determining if someone is drinking is a very easy process as the results of alcohol show up on many tests both routine labs and other tests. If they are found to be drinking they will be removed from the waiting list and will not be eligible for an organ.
I hope his helps.
Hector