Congestive Heart Failure/Cirrhosis of the Liver

My brother is 5'7 and 375 lbs. He is losing his breath daily and having siezures daily atleast once a day.  He has cirrhosis of the liver, congestive heart failure, rapid weight gain, smokes 2 pks a day, drinks liquer daily and bp was 227/130 today and now having kidney problems.  He refuses any treatment. How long can he survive like this without treatment?

[Yvette BG]

My heart goes out to you. How sad and frustrating it must be for you to see your brother like this. What have his doctors said? Have they told him how long they predict he can live without treatment (no one has the crystal ball, of course) and also, what his quality of life will be if he continues to refuse treatment?

Has he ever been treated for depression? So often that contributes to the heavy smoking and drinking problems.

[realtortwood]

He has been a drinker all his life and mostly liquer the past few years.  The doctor just told him he needs to go the the hospital and be admittted for treatment.  He doesnt go to a regular doctor, this was at a patient first thing.  He thought he would get some fluid pills but she refused to try and treat him.  Im sure hes depressed but he has a attitude "i dont care"  always.  I spoke to him this morning and he said he passes out daily and has seizures when he does.

[Yvette BG]

Wow. Do you think he will go to the hospital? At this point, if he doesn't go to the hospital and can't get out to get his liquor because he's too sick, it's possible he could die from alcohol withdrawl (withdrawal). Do you live nearby that you can drive him to the hospital?

If he won't go, do you think calling an emergency family and/or friends intervention would be worth a try?  

I've had alcoholics in my family (mom and sister) and I know how awful it feels when someone you love who's been drinking for a long time is now on a quick path to destruction...

[realtortwood]

He has someone to bring him alcohol should he not be able to get out. After talking to him this morning he says he might go to the dr in a week or so but pretty much refuses treatment of any kind.  He is taking bp med and thats it.  We have tried everything but he refuses.  I just dont know how much longer  he can live like this. He said we shouldnt worry hes not dieing.  But I know he is

[gmachris518]

I have CHF and end stage renal disease and my chances of survival are slim to none.  I don't have half the problems your brother does, so perhaps with that said, you will have a better idea of what is to come.

I understand your brother's refusal for treatment, mainly because if he is hospitalized then everything he normally does will be taken away.  He won't be allowed to drink or smoke, and they would put him on a strict diet, including low sodium, which makes everything taste like it's been boiled in plain water. It sounds as though he would rather die than give up the things he enjoys.  At a certain point there is no reason to quit doing what you enjoy, because the outcome will be the same, except you'll be dying by everyone else's standards and not your own.

I know this is a bitter pill for you to swallow, but it's your brother's life and what he decides to do with it is his decision alone.

Now, a bit of information that is not common knowledge.  If someone is on a self destruct quest, sometimes they can be hospitalized by a mental health expert against their will.  Usually the stay is only 72 hours, but sometimes it's enough to get them on the right track, and perhaps on the medication they need.  It's something to think about, but keep in mind that you will become his #1 enemy, and he will hate you for it.  At least as long as he is being forced to take care of himself, and still the outcome may be the same.  I guess you need to ask yourself if you're willing to live with that, if it happens.

It's a hard call.  Should he be forced into giving up everything he wants to do, or should you leave him alone?  Should he be allowed to die by his own standards, or by yours?  

As a person who is dying, I would say leave me alone and let me do it my way.  

I hope that gives a bit better perception of the situation.

[realtortwood]

I cant put in words how much you really helped me more understand.  You are right he doesnt have a good chance of living and if he gave up everything he likes i dont think it will help too much at this point.  It wouldnt be fair for him to live what life he has left not doing the things he enjoys.  

Yes I can live with myself letting him be himself and **** what he wants to do even if it kills him.  He is 47 yrs old and is in his right state of mind, therefore he can make his own choices.

I admire you and appreciate your response.  I pray you enjoy the life you have left and do all the things that make you happy.  Remember one thing... you just made a difference in my life.

Thank you and God Bless

[gmachris518]

Thank you for your respone.  It feels good to know that I've made a difference for someone.

[molly588]

Dear gmachris518,
You are absolutely right on all points. I have a sister that did it her own way and she passed away peacefully in her sleep. I nagged her until a nurse friend told me that it wouldn't change her outcome to quit smoking so I gave up and left her alone. Now my oldest brother is in the same boat and I am not going to nag him either. He's a big boy, knows what the consequences are and I will leave him to do as he wishes. I love him but know it will be like talking to a brick wall. Good luck to you.

Molly588