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53 dead in attack on casino in northern Mexico
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44282514/ns/world_news-americas/.......This is a tragedy! The drug cartels are obviously not afraid of the law. Matter of fact, many members of this particular cartel are former Mexican law enforcement and military. Underlining headline is Narco Culture Permeates Mexico, Leakes Across Border. What are we doing about the 'drug culture' in the United States? Billions of dollars are being spent on fighting illegal drug trafficking and use. So far it amounts to using a garden hose to put out a forest fire. Should we blame Mexico? I think not. In a country (USA) where a once drug sub-culture is now a mainstream culture, we should look at ourselves. Without the huge appetite for illegal drugs here in the USA, there would be no market for the drug cartels. It's going to get worse unless we can 'fix' OUR drug problem. Should we start with that part of the entertainment industry that glorifies drug trafficking and use, glorifies pimps and prostitution where illegal drug use is rampant, and glorifies lawbreakers and ex-cons? Does the fashion industry promote images of people that look like they are pale, skinny drug addicts? Should we do more than slap people on the wrist for selling illegal drugs? What more can be done for those who are lost in drug addiction?... Illegal drug use has effected some of my family and friends, and probably yours. I would really like some input on this.
The real fact of the matter is, illegal drugs are far easier to get than legal drugs. I have to take 3 pills a day, they are not available on the black market. But even a dolt like me can come across marijuana in a couple of hours, and I live in a tiny community.
I agree with the above who said, not all users become addicts and we know this because not all drinkers are alcoholics.
Take a look at tobacco. Even with all of the laws prohibiting use amongst people less than 18 years old, and look at all of the people under 18 using it? Look at all of the kids that aren't using it.... there are far more not using than using. The fact of the matter is, even aspirin or ibuprofin can kill us if misused and there are no restrictions on them. Anyone can buy them.....
I'm for legalizing marijuana. I do not see marijuana as a gate way drug any more than I see a baby spoon being the gateway to obesity. Legalizing cocaine and heroin? No, probably not.
Prosecuting someone who sold a joint is a joke, and some of the laws these days are proving so. They aren't the problem.
My family has been affected by drug use. Alcoholism basically killed my aunt, and her son... my cousin has dealt with numerous addictions which almost killed him too... Meth, cocaine, pain pills... you name it, he did it. Marijuana was the least of his worries.
I agree with the above who said, not all users become addicts and we know this because not all drinkers are alcoholics.
Take a look at tobacco. Even with all of the laws prohibiting use amongst people less than 18 years old, and look at all of the people under 18 using it? Look at all of the kids that aren't using it.... there are far more not using than using. The fact of the matter is, even aspirin or ibuprofin can kill us if misused and there are no restrictions on them. Anyone can buy them.....
I'm for legalizing marijuana. I do not see marijuana as a gate way drug any more than I see a baby spoon being the gateway to obesity. Legalizing cocaine and heroin? No, probably not.
Prosecuting someone who sold a joint is a joke, and some of the laws these days are proving so. They aren't the problem.
My family has been affected by drug use. Alcoholism basically killed my aunt, and her son... my cousin has dealt with numerous addictions which almost killed him too... Meth, cocaine, pain pills... you name it, he did it. Marijuana was the least of his worries.
Yes I believe that I would support the prescribing of medical marijuana if it helps suffering...I am really afraid for children they learn from us and it seems if it does happen, that many will in fact like Europe go back to cigarette smoking as well as pot I cannot see much baking of cakes going on , I think that's the only other way to ingest it, but I may be wrong.Of course the drug dealers are certainly a problem to be dealt with, but if its made legal all it will do is make it easier .
Well my dear, it's true we don't agree. I do however respect your views and appreciate what your saying. Thanks for answering...always good to hear another perspective.
I support medical marijuana if administered by a doctor. Statistically the relative harm of marijuana is less than that of alcohol and cigarettes by far. However it is not harmless and I have seen people who became addicted to it so I'd have my concerns. However with all other drugs there are fatal overdoses on a regular basis and the harm is clear. I don't think people who abuse drugs those should be arrested but instead should be encouraged or required (depending) to seek rehabilitation. The same would not be true of drug dealers who of course should be arrested. I have one set of family members who I am not in touch that often who successfully completed the rehabilitation process and people undergoing that have my full support. I just wouldn't want to make certain opportunities easier.When the FDA was created, heroin and cocaine could be in prescription medications and be unlabeled and I wouldn't want to go back to those days.
Why have we all these rules about cigarettes and most say smoking is bad ..yet we are going to attempt to legalise pot... it doesn't make sense its a contradiction .
I will give you my answer but we both know we wont agree lol
First.... I do AGREE 100% that if drugs were made legal, it would shut down the drug lords. Most likely they will then go full force into the sex slave industry...kidnapping and selling humans for sex. (its almost suprpassing the drug trade now)
So yes, I agree it would put the drug dealers out of business...(but uncle sam will be IN business)
Anyway....
The problem I have with making it legal is this...
I could not with a clear conscience pass a law allowing people to do something that will cause them to destroy themselves or someone else.
I know you guys believe the reports that drug use goes down when legal, but I do not. I am convinced that more people will try it since it will be legal. It goes back to that restraint I mentioned before. The law helps the decent people to have restraint.
People speed all the time. Should we pass a law allowing everyone to drive as fast as they want? No... the law keeps some of us from speeding who would other wise do so. Also, it keeps some from killing the rest of us.
First.... I do AGREE 100% that if drugs were made legal, it would shut down the drug lords. Most likely they will then go full force into the sex slave industry...kidnapping and selling humans for sex. (its almost suprpassing the drug trade now)
So yes, I agree it would put the drug dealers out of business...(but uncle sam will be IN business)
Anyway....
The problem I have with making it legal is this...
I could not with a clear conscience pass a law allowing people to do something that will cause them to destroy themselves or someone else.
I know you guys believe the reports that drug use goes down when legal, but I do not. I am convinced that more people will try it since it will be legal. It goes back to that restraint I mentioned before. The law helps the decent people to have restraint.
People speed all the time. Should we pass a law allowing everyone to drive as fast as they want? No... the law keeps some of us from speeding who would other wise do so. Also, it keeps some from killing the rest of us.
Ok, you know I love you to bits. But gotta ask..what is your argument against? What are the positives in your mind to keeping it all illegal. Not being mean, I am genuinely interested. I love the fact that we debate issues here, and I often learn things I had not thought of. So I want to hear what the reasoning is that you are against. Still love ya no matter what they are!!
I think you are all sincere but sincerely misguided. :)
I have to agree with El on this one. An addict is going to be an addict no matter if drugs are legal or not. I lost my MIL this past September. She did cocaine occasionally but was addicted to pain killers. Preferable Vicodin and Oxy. Due to over 20+ yrs of abuse to her body it finally shut down on her at the age of 47 She tried as hard as she thought she could to kick the habit but she couldn't. I also agree with El in legalizing it and putting mandates to it like Alcohol. In a way it is already legal b/c there are Dr's out there that feed their patients' the prescriptions and turn a blind eye. My MIL's Dr. Did......
Hi Beau another good post from you ,I agree with you illegal drug use has indeed affected everyone who has seen it within their own family I don't think making drugs legal is the answer , I don't really know what is we have this coming up regarding Pot and once you legalise that its obvious that smoking will be back en masse unless unless its going to be baked into cakes..kids will drive and they will smoke ....
God loves them just as much as he loves the rest of us.
Sorry, I also want to respond to a question in Beau's original post....
"Should we give sellers more then a slap on the wrist". Yes and no. For the "low level" sellers, most are doing this just to support their own habit. They are not really where the big problem lies. They should get more then a slap on the wrist, but they are not who we need to be going after. It's the mid level dealers, the distributors, importers, etc. Often very organized gangs such as these cartels we see and hear of in Mexico. If caught, they need to be jailed for life. They are nothing but leeches, feeding off of others misfortune and profiting from people being very very sick. They are scum of the earth. They intentionally try to hook our children in order to create future clients. You all know how much I dislike violence, but no sympathy for these guys. Line em up and shoot em! Or, legalize and put them out of the drug business.
"Should we give sellers more then a slap on the wrist". Yes and no. For the "low level" sellers, most are doing this just to support their own habit. They are not really where the big problem lies. They should get more then a slap on the wrist, but they are not who we need to be going after. It's the mid level dealers, the distributors, importers, etc. Often very organized gangs such as these cartels we see and hear of in Mexico. If caught, they need to be jailed for life. They are nothing but leeches, feeding off of others misfortune and profiting from people being very very sick. They are scum of the earth. They intentionally try to hook our children in order to create future clients. You all know how much I dislike violence, but no sympathy for these guys. Line em up and shoot em! Or, legalize and put them out of the drug business.
I dont believe a person can use drugs responsibly.
Yay!! Legalizing drugs, my favorite topic. And sadly, this story is another example of what happens when these substances stay illegal.
I also hate drugs. Scared to death of the actually. However, there is a reality here everyone needs to face. They exist, and if people choose to, they will use them. And as El said, some get addicted, some do not. Same as some get addicted to alcohol, some do not.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that legalizing them will encourage or enable kids or anyone else to try them. THere is also absolutely no evidence that keeping them illegal will discourage anyone from trying them or using them. Alcohol is illegal if you are under 18 (where I live anyway), and some kids choose to try it, others do not. Some adults choose to use it responsibly, some get addicted and no longer can use it responsibly. There is just no difference between the two.
Legalizing drugs however, does essentially put the dealer out of business. The profits will no longer be there. I always like to remind people of the violence that stemmed from bootleggers during prohibition. People didn't quit drinking, they just bought it illegally. Bootleggers went to war with each other. Same thing with drugs.
As for pregnant women..I love to have a glass (or sometimes two) of wine. I chose not to when pregnant as I understand the damage it could do to a fetus. I chose not to smoke cigarettes. Yet those things are completely legal, and had I chosen to, no one could have stopped me.
And also on the topic of pregnant women. The absolute most damaging substance a women can consume when pregnant is alcohol. Babies have a far better chance of recovering from being born drug addicted then they do being born with fetal alcohol syndrome. FAS is brain damage that is irreversible.
There's my argument, and I'm sticking to it..lol. Seriously though, I too hate drugs, but we are fighting this problem in completely the wrong way. The only people winning are the dealers, and I put them on the same level as pedophiles. Horrible vile creatures.
I also hate drugs. Scared to death of the actually. However, there is a reality here everyone needs to face. They exist, and if people choose to, they will use them. And as El said, some get addicted, some do not. Same as some get addicted to alcohol, some do not.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that legalizing them will encourage or enable kids or anyone else to try them. THere is also absolutely no evidence that keeping them illegal will discourage anyone from trying them or using them. Alcohol is illegal if you are under 18 (where I live anyway), and some kids choose to try it, others do not. Some adults choose to use it responsibly, some get addicted and no longer can use it responsibly. There is just no difference between the two.
Legalizing drugs however, does essentially put the dealer out of business. The profits will no longer be there. I always like to remind people of the violence that stemmed from bootleggers during prohibition. People didn't quit drinking, they just bought it illegally. Bootleggers went to war with each other. Same thing with drugs.
As for pregnant women..I love to have a glass (or sometimes two) of wine. I chose not to when pregnant as I understand the damage it could do to a fetus. I chose not to smoke cigarettes. Yet those things are completely legal, and had I chosen to, no one could have stopped me.
And also on the topic of pregnant women. The absolute most damaging substance a women can consume when pregnant is alcohol. Babies have a far better chance of recovering from being born drug addicted then they do being born with fetal alcohol syndrome. FAS is brain damage that is irreversible.
There's my argument, and I'm sticking to it..lol. Seriously though, I too hate drugs, but we are fighting this problem in completely the wrong way. The only people winning are the dealers, and I put them on the same level as pedophiles. Horrible vile creatures.
I dont do drugs, never have, none of my kids did until my son met this woman who was a Meth head. He tried it and was on it long enuff to experience losing just about everything he could ever have, including his family. He divorced her but she was found months later with a pain patch in her mouth. The meth clinic had cut her off, she was using the rent money and grocery money to get her drugs. I hate drugs and I hate those who sell them. But whatever I might feel about them, it does not change the fact that they are a huge problem everywhere. Until you take away the profit and the market it will continue. That is just the way it is. Legalizing the drugs would not make addicts in my opinion, because the addicts are gonna use regardless. And as far as children using, that goes back to the environment they are raised in, that has a whole lot to do with whether one will or will not use, drink, smoke or any other vice. But that is just my opinion.
I dont care what the "experts" say. I always will hate drugs and never be in favor of them being legal.
Anyway.... you all will love the article below....
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html
Anyway.... you all will love the article below....
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html
BBXX:
IF they were to be made legal, across the board, I think it should be handled in much the same way as alcohol is handled. 21+ in order to legally purchase.
As for the pregnant woman question... that's not something you can put a "rule" on. A pregnant woman can walk into a liquor store and buy a six-pack, or a 'handle' of vodka, and there's no law against it.
It would be available to pregnant women, should they choose to buy them, right, wrong or indifferent. You can't stop someone from doing drugs, or drinking. If they want it badly enough, they'll do it no matter what obstacles or laws you throw up.
R Glass:
My DOC was Dilaudid & Opana. Man oh man... put a bottle of those in front of me, and they'd be GONEZO. I keep Toradol in the house now, for when I get a kidney-stone, and that'll take the edge off, but there's nothing for kidney-stone pain that works as well as an opiate (unfortunately for me). Bad part for me is, I continue to get kidney-stones on a very regular basis, so I find myself in the ER 1, sometimes 2 times a month (some months are better, some worse). And what do they give you in the hospital for a kidney-stone? You guessed it... Dilaudid. I can't get away from pain-meds, unfortunately for me. I only go to the ER when I'm in extreme pain, and have a large, unpassable stone (or a large one that I need help passing). All the ER doctors & nurses know that I'm in recovery, so they treat me with the least amount of Dilaudid possible. Just enough to get me by, and no more. I always go to the same ER as well, as I don't want to be seen as a "Doctor Shopper", and besides, they all know me and my story, so I get good care in there.
IF they were to be made legal, across the board, I think it should be handled in much the same way as alcohol is handled. 21+ in order to legally purchase.
As for the pregnant woman question... that's not something you can put a "rule" on. A pregnant woman can walk into a liquor store and buy a six-pack, or a 'handle' of vodka, and there's no law against it.
It would be available to pregnant women, should they choose to buy them, right, wrong or indifferent. You can't stop someone from doing drugs, or drinking. If they want it badly enough, they'll do it no matter what obstacles or laws you throw up.
R Glass:
My DOC was Dilaudid & Opana. Man oh man... put a bottle of those in front of me, and they'd be GONEZO. I keep Toradol in the house now, for when I get a kidney-stone, and that'll take the edge off, but there's nothing for kidney-stone pain that works as well as an opiate (unfortunately for me). Bad part for me is, I continue to get kidney-stones on a very regular basis, so I find myself in the ER 1, sometimes 2 times a month (some months are better, some worse). And what do they give you in the hospital for a kidney-stone? You guessed it... Dilaudid. I can't get away from pain-meds, unfortunately for me. I only go to the ER when I'm in extreme pain, and have a large, unpassable stone (or a large one that I need help passing). All the ER doctors & nurses know that I'm in recovery, so they treat me with the least amount of Dilaudid possible. Just enough to get me by, and no more. I always go to the same ER as well, as I don't want to be seen as a "Doctor Shopper", and besides, they all know me and my story, so I get good care in there.
I'm like el- I have a bottle (30) of Xanax that will probably last me a month and a half. But if I had a bottle of Lortabs, I would be eating them like Skittels. Now here is the point. I can get them anytime I want (Through my Dr. or off the Streets). I choose not to.
Curious. Do you think drugs should be legal and available for everyone or only people of a certain age?
What about pregnant women?
What about pregnant women?
BBXX:
That's fair enough.
I'm not certain that it would be the be'all and end'all of all our cartel woes, but it certainly has to be better than having the cartel's killing upwards of 30,000 people in a turf-war, that's being fought for control of traffic-routes & territory.
Quite honestly, I'm not sure WHAT the answer is, or if there even IS an answer.
What we need to put resources into, is medical science aimed at figuring out what makes an addict, an addict. They've identified several gene's that make one prone to developing addictive tendencies, so it isn't too far out of the realm of possibilities to try and BLOCK that gene, or destroy it, or subdue it, or reverse it's development, or something like that.
Just think, if you could give a new-born an injection at birth, that would prevent them from developing addictive habits. It opens up a can of worms, mind you, because in so doing (administering the shot), will it effect the child's ability to develop LOVE for their parents?
One COULD argue, that falling in love, or being in love, is a type of addiction.
What's that song... "Might as well face it, you're addicted to love!"
That's fair enough.
I'm not certain that it would be the be'all and end'all of all our cartel woes, but it certainly has to be better than having the cartel's killing upwards of 30,000 people in a turf-war, that's being fought for control of traffic-routes & territory.
Quite honestly, I'm not sure WHAT the answer is, or if there even IS an answer.
What we need to put resources into, is medical science aimed at figuring out what makes an addict, an addict. They've identified several gene's that make one prone to developing addictive tendencies, so it isn't too far out of the realm of possibilities to try and BLOCK that gene, or destroy it, or subdue it, or reverse it's development, or something like that.
Just think, if you could give a new-born an injection at birth, that would prevent them from developing addictive habits. It opens up a can of worms, mind you, because in so doing (administering the shot), will it effect the child's ability to develop LOVE for their parents?
One COULD argue, that falling in love, or being in love, is a type of addiction.
What's that song... "Might as well face it, you're addicted to love!"
I disagree that legalizing drugs is a good move.
You disagree that addicts will becomes addicts, whether the drugs are legal or illegal? Or you disagree that legalizing drugs is a good move?
Just trying to understand where you're coming from...
Just trying to understand where you're coming from...
Hmmm...Sometimes the more a person talks, the more they sound like the teacher on Charlie Brown. (wa, wah,wu, wah).... but here goes anyway...
I completely disagree.
The good news for you is that I imagine most of society feels the same as you all do, so therefore, we will get to see for ourselves soon enough. yippee
I completely disagree.
The good news for you is that I imagine most of society feels the same as you all do, so therefore, we will get to see for ourselves soon enough. yippee
I think that legalizing drugs of all types, is a good move.
It doesn't remove the market, but it does remove the channel by which those drugs come to the marketplace.
If there's nothing to traffic, then what is there to fight about?
All these cartel's are fighting about is control over traffic'ing in certain areas, so if drugs are legal, and the gov't is involved, then the illegal traffic'ing becomes obsolete.
Besides, if it's legal, then Uncle Sam can get in on the action and tax it to death!
Talk about eliminating the national debt quickly! We'd be running a surplus in about 32 days, if it even took THAT long!!!
It doesn't remove the market, but it does remove the channel by which those drugs come to the marketplace.
If there's nothing to traffic, then what is there to fight about?
All these cartel's are fighting about is control over traffic'ing in certain areas, so if drugs are legal, and the gov't is involved, then the illegal traffic'ing becomes obsolete.
Besides, if it's legal, then Uncle Sam can get in on the action and tax it to death!
Talk about eliminating the national debt quickly! We'd be running a surplus in about 32 days, if it even took THAT long!!!
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