Bastrop Students defeats ACLU at their own game.

[R Glass]

Bastrop Students defeats ACLU at their own game.
· This really cracks me up “Consider discipline against Mattice.” What kind of disciplanary action, SHE GRADUATED LOL

http://www.bastropenterprise.com/news/x1148655178/Groups-want-apology-to-student-who-raised-graduation-prayer-issue
This is a video of the Prayer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx2mfGA3LRs&feature=related

[bbxx]

funny :)

[R Glass]

I found it,  Glass- Chapter 1/Verse 1- Thou Shalt not Vote for Obama

[bbxx]

I know I look like I am contradicting myself, but the truth is, I do believe God puts in who he wants. I just am not sure if God expects me to vote since he has allowed us the freedom here, or if I am not suppose to at all. I dont have an answer because I havent studied the bible for it.  

[R Glass]

Just seems like a Big Waste of Time if God is Going to Overide your vote.

[bbxx]

I wonder that myself, but I guess I figure we have the freedom to do so, so I may as well use my freedom while I have it.

[R Glass]

Then why vote at all?

[bbxx]

The ironic thing, is that no matter how I vote, I believe God puts in who he wants, for whatever his purpose is.

[adgal]

And that is exactly what I find so interesting.  I always notice in your elections how much religion comes up.  I mean the furor over the fact that some thought Obama was muslim.  Here it's never something that is even mentioned at election time.  I am not the biggest fan of our Prime Minister, but I don't have the foggiest idea as to what his religious beliefs are. Not saying you guys are wrong for that being a factor..not saying that at all.  You have to vote for whom you feel good about and I understand a lot of different factors can play into that.  So please, don't misunderstand..this isn't a criticism or a judgement, just a fact that I find interesting.  Religion plays such a big part in your culture and even though in so many ways our countries are so very similar, this is one area where it is very different.  

[bbxx]

I am sorry but I dont have the same feelings you do.
So I guess this is the one time I would vote against someone because of their religion.

[adgal]

I was just thinking about the religion situation for voting.  Our city just voted in a mayor that I think is Muslim.  No one ever brought it up at all..he was the best candidate and is doing a great job for us so far.  And he certainly is not trying to institute Sharia law or anything like that.  I find it interesting that so many might have discounted him just because of his religion.  He never talks about his religious beliefs at all and no one else ever seems to either.

[brice1967]

I do think we tend to vote for people who are "most like us", but I feel we are handicapping ourselves if we do this based entirely upon religion, race, sex etc..  When it comes to elected officials, I personally do not care what religion, sex, race you are... I just want those elected officials to go in, kick some tail, take some names, and do their jobs.

Take our current president for instance.  There is probably a pretty fair split of people who voted for and voted against this man based entirely upon his race.  To me, that's pitiful and really ignorant but that is still the time and place in which we live.

And what you said about the protesters is all too true.  One group will incite the other and in return end up looking just as bad/worse.

[bbxx]

I agree on not choosing a president based on his religion, but dont you think we choose those who think more like us in our stand on things? The people that voted for our President now voted for him because they liked what he stood for.

Oh boy, the picketers. I cringe when I see it myself.
So what should the Christians response be? In all honesty, our response should be to love them, PERIOD.
Holding up gruesome signs and screaming is not the way to change things.
Love and prayer is the only way. Love doesnt seem to do much but prayer does.
The problem is when we see someting we believe to be wrong, we get angry, but then we act in the flesh. There is a verse that says the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God. (something like that).The point is, yes we are to hate sin, but that is as far as it is to go, but we dont stop there. We give in to our human nature which is to be angry to the point of sin. So we go from hating sin to sinning. Because of that you have someone holding up a gruesome sign screaming at someone that they are going to hell or some other horrible thing (which only God can judge) and then of course the other person becomes angry and you have anger feeding anger. I know it stinks. I wish things were different.

[brice1967]

I'm agnostic and would never get elected because of my beliefs.  But for the sake of the argument, and as far as I am concerned, I'd have no problem leaving "God" on anything.  I have a God that I do pray to, and I just hope he is listening.  (I've seen some of his work, and I've seens some short comings... but thats different.

As has been mentioned a few times in this thread, the thought of anyone trying to impress their beliefs, and going at great lengths to get that done, is really less than appealing.  And for me, it is quite the opposite with absolutely no regards to the subject.... religion included.  Back to being president.  I don't care what religion the person is.  It doesnt matter, because he was elected to do a job.  His ability to do his/her job is priority.  His/her religion means very little to me.  If we had a religious fanatic, who only spoke of God and nothing else, there are even some good christians that might want to know about policy and procedure for a while.  "We know where you stand with God, now how about the budget, foreign affairs etc?"  That make sense to anyone?

bbxx, I agree that there used to be an awareness towards God.  It really seemed as if there was just a respect involved that doesnt seem to be in place these days.  I dont know, religious matters will always start fights.  I personally know where I stand with my God, and I am good with that.  I will not force feed, nor will I be force fed God or anything else for that matter but I do respect everyones right to free speech.... With that ssaid, our little town was just subjected to a whole group of anti abortion people.  For the most part, they played by the rules... had permits to assemble, stand in protest... but there were other things going on in town and they were told to stay away from the other things.  Instead, this church group came on to school property to protest and were promptly arrested, as they should have been.  Their rights infringed upon those rights of others.

Again bbxx, I agree with you about the God awareness.  It isnt there anymore.  It never affected nor bothered me, but if someone was trying to force feed it to me, that would be a problem.

[bbxx]

I understand  what you are saying, I dont believe most people in the us are Christians, but I do believe there was a respect towards God, a God awareness,  and the ten commandments and the fact everyone is so offended now, is a reflection of a society that is becoming hardened and therefore will continue to become more and more evil as we as a society throw out God and do what is right in our own eyes. I know you and I completely differ on what is right, so I wont bring up examples, but I truely see this happening. More and more people are fighting to be allowed to do what is right in their own eyes, and this is the most dangerous place to be as a society. That said, I dont believe forcing someone to pray to my God or acknowlege my God is the answer, I just think we are where we are because of the continuing decline.

[adgal]

I think your comments made a really good argument as to why there has to remain seperation of Church and State.  Every single person should be able to worship whatever God they pray to, and however they see fit (providing it's not causing harm to others of course).  We truly do have that here in Canada now....I have no clue what religion our Prime Minister is, and it's not something that I have ever heard come up in election campaigns.  It's just not mentioned.  Why? because it just isn't relevant.  Sorry if that is offensive, but I truly believe that.  We cannot have a free country that say's everyone is equal, but if your Christian, your more equal..know what I mean?

I am not so sure that that many people are actually angry at Christianity.  I think they just want equal recognition under the law.  It is one of the wonderful things about a free country.

[bbxx]

thank you for the information. :)

[mikesimon]

I just provided some information.
You can do with it what you like............or not bother with it at all.

[bbxx]

I find it frustrating that so many people have "proof" of things being one way or the other. I personally dont really know who to believe anymore when it comes to research and records etc... and none of us were there, so I will not try to argue something I cant prove, but I do know one thing without a doubt.
We have  been  very blessed to born and raised in the US of all the countries in the world. As long as I can remember, God was part of our country- our courts, money, flag
So help me GOD
In GOD we trust
One nation under GOD
This is what I have known, and you as well have known. (depending on your age)
In times of crises, our presidents would say to pray whenever there was a problem. I assumed they wanted us to pray to God not ourselves, since we were helpless.
This whole thing is really sad to me. I kind of understand where people are angry about Christianity, because there are many people that want to force their views on everyone. I guess if you think of it this way, if an athiest gets in the white house they will remove God from as many things as possible because their beliefs are in themselves, that is their god (I think). If a muslim is in the white house he will want sharia law because thats what he believes is best. If a christian, they want their way--everyone believes something and everyone wants their beliefs to be the one followed. I dont understand the hatred people have towards God, but my guess its because of the awful things done by those claiming the name God. I dont know. I only know what I said above, and I only know that I believe what I believe and you believe what you believe. I personally am glad I can hope in God for many reasons, one being because I need to be healed and I am praying he will heal me. I know others think there is no God and I cant imagine what they do when they are left without hope. Anyway, I just wanted to say my opinion. I respect your right to yours. For what its worth, I dont think its right of anyone to force you to pray to my God. I wouldnt want to pray to someone I thought was not real either.

[mikesimon]

I think your analysis is absolutely correct.

Regarding the Founding Fathers:

Thomas Paine was a pamphleteer whose manifestos encouraged the faltering spirits of the country and aided materially in winning the war of Independence:
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."
From:
The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine, pp. 8,9 (Republished 1984, Prometheus Books, Buffalo, NY)

John Adams, the country's second president, was drawn to the study of law but faced pressure from his father to become a clergyman. He wrote that he found among the lawyers 'noble and gallant achievments" but among the clergy, the "pretended sanctity of some absolute dunces". Late in life he wrote: "Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!"

It was during Adam's administration that the Senate ratified the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, which states in Article XI that "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion."
From:
The Character of John Adams by Peter Shaw, pp. 17 (1976, North Carolina Press, Chapel Hill, NC) Quoting a letter by JA to Charles Cushing Oct 19, 1756, and John Adams, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by James Peabody, p. 403 (1973, Newsweek, New York NY) Quoting letter by JA to Jefferson April 19, 1817, and in reference to the treaty, Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 311 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse, June, 1814.

Thomas Jefferson, third president and author of the Declaration of Independence, said:"I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian." He referred to the Revelation of St. John as "the ravings of a maniac" and wrote:
The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained."
From:
Thomas Jefferson, an Intimate History by Fawn M. Brodie, p. 453 (1974, W.W) Norton and Co. Inc. New York, NY) Quoting a letter by TJ to Alexander Smyth Jan 17, 1825, and Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 246 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to John Adams, July 5, 1814.

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -- Thomas Jefferson (letter to J. Adams April 11,1823)

James Madison, fourth president and father of the Constitution, was not religious in any conventional sense. "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
From:
The Madisons by Virginia Moore, P. 43 (1979, McGraw-Hill Co. New York, NY) quoting a letter by JM to William Bradford April 1, 1774, and James Madison, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Joseph Gardner, p. 93, (1974, Newsweek, New York, NY) Quoting Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments by JM, June 1785.

Ethan Allen, whose capture of Fort Ticonderoga while commanding the Green Mountain Boys helped inspire Congress and the country to pursue the War of Independence, said, "That Jesus Christ was not God is evidence from his own words." In the same book, Allen noted that he was generally "denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian." When Allen married Fanny Buchanan, he stopped his own wedding ceremony when the judge asked him if he promised "to live with Fanny Buchanan agreeable to the laws of God." Allen refused to answer until the judge agreed that the God referred to was the God of Nature, and the laws those "written in the great book of nature."
From:
Religion of the American Enlightenment by G. Adolph Koch, p. 40 (1968, Thomas Crowell Co., New York, NY.) quoting preface and p. 352 of Reason, the Only Oracle of Man and A Sense of History compiled by American Heritage Press Inc., p. 103 (1985, American Heritage Press, Inc., New York, NY.)

Benjamin Franklin, delegate to the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention, said:
"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble." He died a month later, and historians consider him, like so many great Americans of his time, to be a Deist, not a Christian.
From:
Benjamin Franklin, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Thomas Fleming, p. 404, (1972, Newsweek, New York, NY) quoting letter by BF to Exra Stiles March 9, 1790.

Speaking of the independence of the first 13 States, H.G. Wells in his Outline of History, says:

    "It was a Western European civilization that had broken free from the last traces of Empire and Christendom; and it had not a vestige of monarchy left, and no State Religion... The absence of any binding religious tie is especially noteworthy. It had a number of forms of Christianity, its spirit was indubitably Christian; but, as a State document of 1796 explicity declared: 'The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.'"

The words "In God We Trust" were not consistently on all U.S. currency until 1956, during the McCarthy Hysteria.

The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.

http://www.borndigital.com/founders.htm

[bbxx]

Politically correct is what is popular, but I noticed the people and leaders alike all said to pray when disaster struck Joplin. Seems  kind of silly.

[adgal]

I grew up with saying the Lords Prayer every morning at school.  The practice stopped around 10th grade if I remember correctly.  It's not that I am offended by it at all.  And my son will be attending Catholic School as I do want him to grow up in a Christian environment.  

My thing is this....you live in a country that has always encouraged immigration.  My country is the same way.  So we live in multi cultural societies and that can be good or bad depending on what your personal feeling is on the matter.  But either way, it's the way it is. Both of our countries also promise freedom of religion right?  I know I wouldn't want that to change.  So I don't see removing prayer from public school as losing anything.  No one is saying Christianity can't be practiced.  It's just that it doesn't seem fair to me to have Christian only prayer in a school system that has children of many different religions attending.  Doesn't mean anyone should hide their faith or not worship as they see fit, just that there is a time and place for everything, and I just don't see public schools as being the place.  But of course I don't find it offensive...just sort of unfair I guess. Not even sure if unfair is the right word.  

And I guess the last point is the law say's no prayer in school (or am I not understanding correctly?) so there is that too.

I guess I just like to see equality.  

Margy...I don't really see it as a right being removed.  To me that would be if religion was being outlawed or something.  Politically correct?  Perhaps.  And yes, your country was founded on Christian principals, but if they wanted that to continue, should they not have made it a rule that to immigrate everyone had to be Christian or convert?  Just throwing out something to think about..lol.

[margypops]

lol didnt they say in the rules above that personal attacks wont be tolerated ...???

[mikesimon]

Hello back Ricky.
I've been well with nothing new and for me no news is good news.
I hope you're well and happy and riding your bike.
I just got mine ready and my summer car ready and by the time I was finished I didn't feel like riding or driving but that happens more these days than it used to.

Be well,
Mike

[margypops]

America  was founded on being a Christian Nation ..I like to see the crosses and hear the prayers ... you know its freedom that allows immigrants to come here and practise their religion, ours should.not be removed out of some stupid 'political correctness' that the left worked out was okay .I am pretty sick of political correctness actually .its time to put a stop to it... .