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Biden urges Democrats to comply with demands to curb U.S. gun violence
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Biden urges Democrats to comply with demands to curb U.S. gun violence

LEESBURG, Virginia (Reuters) - U.S. Vice President Joe Biden urged fellow Democrats in the House of Representatives on Wednesday to comply with public demands for action to reduce gun violence.

It is unclear which, if any, of Biden's gun-control recommendations Congress might approve, but the vice president said legislators have an obligation to do as much as they can.

"I don't want to hear about 'well we can't take it on because it's too politically dangerous,'" Biden told House Democrats at the opening of a three-day retreat. "There's an overwhelming consensus about the need to act."

The politically powerful gun rights lobby, led by the National Rifle Association, opposes Biden's proposals, saying they would violate Americans' constitutional right to bear arms.

However, Biden urged lawmakers to stand up to these groups and side with the American people, who clearly favor tougher gun laws, according to recent polls.

Biden's proposals include a ban on semi-automatic weapons and limits on high-capacity ammunition clips, like those used at a school massacre at in Newton, Connecticut, in December that ignited the new push for gun control.

With many Republicans and Democrats from conservative states reluctant to embrace tougher gun laws, Biden and President Barack Obama have traveled the country to try, seeking public support for their proposals.

Biden said Congress should not yield to gun-control naysayers who contend that "the risk is too high, the outcome is too uncertain."

He acknowledged that members of Congress who backed a 1994 ban on assault weapons faced a voter backlash that year that may well have cost many of them their jobs.

"I'm here to tell you the world has changed since 1994," Biden said.

"I can't imagine how we will be judged as a nation, as a people, as individuals, if we do nothing. It is simply unacceptable."
http://news.yahoo.com/biden-urges-democrats-comply-demands-curb-u-gun-025058280.html
45 Comments
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206807_tn?1331939784
“He acknowledged that members of Congress who backed a 1994 ban on assault weapons faced a voter backlash that year that may well have cost many of them their jobs.”

"I'm here to tell you the world has changed since 1994," Biden said.

So times have changed since 1994. You no longer have to represent your Constituents and you have no need to fear of losing your job? I really don’t think they are that stupid.
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"I can't imagine how we will be judged as a nation, as a people, as individuals, if we do nothing. It is simply unacceptable."

True words...I don't see why ANY POLITICIAN would not want to be on board..It's just sickening to know they have that much power. The American People want it. their own constituents want tougher gun laws..What the hell is the problem?!?!?!....
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Gun lobby seems to be pretty powerful.

Assault weapon ban and a tightening of restrictions for ownership.
Not a complete solution as it only addresses a part of the problem but it is a start.
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206807_tn?1331939784
You must have missed this part-

“With many Republicans and Democrats from conservative states reluctant to embrace tougher gun laws,” and this part,

“He acknowledged that members of Congress who backed a 1994 ban on assault weapons faced a voter backlash that year that may well have cost many of them their jobs.”

It could be suicide for their careers and also sacrifice more Seats in the House. I don’t think the Pros and Cons have been weighed out but it is coming from Biden so I’m not surprised.
He has a History of speaking before thinking.
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With many Republicans and Democrats from conservative states reluctant to
It could be suicide for their careers and also sacrifice more Seats in the House"

and

"I can't imagine how we will be judged as a nation, as a people, as individuals, if we do nothing. It is simply unacceptable."


Mostly we dont win the conservative states anyway.  I think the fact that he is willing to step up and out and say that regardless...we have to do something is gallant.
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Biden has nothing to worry about in his political life so he can say whatever he wants. The Blue Dog Dems who are in conservative states will probably lose those elections based on this issue alone.

And frankly why do we care what Europe thinks of the US? Why should we care?

It is unaccpetable if we give into irrational thinking and fear. It's unacceptable if we don't look at the real issue that drives gun violence. "Assault" weapons is not the gun violence we see and hear everyday.

This whole issue of gun violence is still about fear and going right over the head of the America people because no one has wanted to talk about the real issues that cause gun violence. Both sides are at fault.
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We pass tougher gun laws.
We ban assault weapons.
We ban high-capacity clips.

And when the next Sandy Hook or Columbine happens? What then? You and I both know it's only a matter of time before it happens again. It ALWAYS happens again.

What do we do THEN?

As Vance stated, the real issues surrounding gun violence aren't being addressed. After the tougher laws are passed, everyone will stand around patting each other on the back and shaking each others hands, saying "Good job!", "Well done!", blah, blah, blah...

But in reality, NOTHING meaningful was accomplished, because as I've said 100 times before... bad people intent on doing bad things don't follow the law or abide by the rules of society.

I think there's a law written someplace, about it being illegal to rob banks, but I'm pretty sure that banks are still getting robbed.

Laws don't stop criminals and malintent people from doing bad things.

GUNS stop criminals and malintent people from doing bad things.
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Avatar_m_tn
"....I think there's a law written someplace, about it being illegal to rob banks, but I'm pretty sure that banks are still getting robbed...."

In fact, bank robberies have been decreasing for quite some time now.

See:  Bank Robbers Going the Way of Blacksmiths?
By Brad TuttleFeb. 06, 2013

"....Last year, however, there were “just” eight bank robberies reported in the same area. In fact, the paper noted, the number of bank robberies around the country has been falling steadily for years:

    According to the FBI, bank holdups have dropped nearly every year since 2003, when nearly 7,500 robberies were reported nationwide with $77 million taken. In 2011 – the last complete year for data – about 5,000 banks reported robberies with $38 million stolen.

The trend continued into 2012 with an especially sharp decline in bank heists, reports the Wall Street Journal. Nationwide, there were 3,870 bank robberies last year, according to preliminary data from the FBI. That’s roughly half the number reported in 2004, and a far cry from the high hit in 1991 of nearly 9,400 bank robberies in the U.S....."

http://business.time.com/2013/02/06/bank-robbers-going-the-way-of-blacksmiths/
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Well stage coach robberies have dropped since the 1800's also. LOL
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Avatar_m_tn
You're obviously borrowing from Obama and I must admit that it suits you well.
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I'll give you that...

I think the point you were trying to make, if I'm reading between the lines correctly, is that:

Laws put in place will help to CURB the occurrence of whatever the law was designed to do.

And I won't argue that point, because it's a valid one.

All I'm saying, is that we can't simply stop at the tougher gun laws & regulations, that Biden's attempting to get passed.

The answer isn't less guns, it's more guns. How do you stop criminals from acting out criminal activities where guns are involved? You shoot them... with a gun.

Have "gun free zones" by all means, but have a clause on your books, that allows for CHL holders to carry on your premises.

If I was intent on shooting a bunch of people, I'm not going to walk into a place where I KNEW people were "packing". I'd go to a school, or a movie-theater, or a school-bus.

I see your point, Mike, but I'm trying to look BEYOND. I just don't want Biden to stop, after the tougher rules & regulations are passed.
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I really wasn't making any subtle or read between the lines point el. The only point I was making is that bank robberies are down.

Hopefully laws discourage the type of acts that they make unlawful and I won't argue that they don't to some degree. That just wasn't my point. When I saw you reference bank robberies I recalled seeing a very recent article addressing bank robberies and I just threw it in there for fun.
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Avatar_m_tn
Fact of the matter is, all violent crimes have been on the decline.... but that doesn't matter?  This conversation is old hat.

The government already has a registration of all guns bought legally.  Everyone fills out a little piece of paper when they purchase a fire arm legally.  

Legally bought firearms are still not the problem.  Criminals stealing guns is part of it, sick people walking into schools and movie theaters and shooting them up is another part of it.  Notice how we are not addressing those issues???  

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And frankly why do we care what Europe thinks of the US? Why should we care? "

Oh boy.

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Avatar_m_tn
"...Fact of the matter is, all violent crimes have been on the decline.... but that doesn't matter?........

That trend might be changing - just maybe. Not that it matters.....

FBI: Violent crimes increased slightly in first half of 2012
By Terry Frieden, CNN Justice Producer
updated 4:21 PM EST, Mon January 14, 2013
STORY HIGHLIGHTS

    All types of violent crime increased 1.9% in first half of 2012
    Murders declined 1.7%, while robberies and aggravated assaults increased
    Statistics for the first half of a year give a clue for the entire year, officials say

Washington (CNN) -- After several years of slow decline, the number of violent crimes in the United States edged up during the first half of 2012, according to newly released FBI statistics.

The figures supplied by the nation's thousands of police agencies showed that overall violent crime increased 1.9% over the comparable period for 2011.

Officials say the preliminary figures provided for the first six months of the year frequently provide a guide to figures for the entire calendar year, which are released in the fall.

Despite the increase in overall violent incidents, the number of murders declined 1.7 percent, and the number of rapes dropped 1.4%. Those figures, however, were offset by a 2% increase in robberies and 2.3% hike in aggravated assaults.

Among property crimes, larceny-theft, burglaries and motor vehicle thefts were all up slightly during the first half of last year. The largest increase was in arson, which went up 3.2%.

Officials will not know until next year whether these initial figures for 2012 represent the beginning of an upward trend in violent crime or a blip on the chart, which has shown an almost continuous decline in crime over the past 15 years.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/14/justice/fbi-crime-statistics-2012
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Mostly we dont win the conservative states anyway.  I think the fact that he is willing to step up and out and say that regardless...we have to do something is gallant.

I agree.
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Laws put in place will help to CURB the occurrence of whatever the law was designed to do.

And I won't argue that point, because it's a valid one.

All I'm saying, is that we can't simply stop at the tougher gun laws & regulations, that Biden's attempting to get passed.
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Agree with that too! Geez, either I am agreeable today or the comments are ageeable to me on this bright morning.
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nygirl...if you can make a snotty comment then why not answer the question?
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I'd like to think that we believe that the opinion of our ALLIES is important to us.  It was not important to Mittens and our BIGGEST ally, Great Britain (maybe you have heard of them?) just about lynched him while he was there.

Maybe we're just more cosmopolitan where I come from but yes, our allies opinions do hold weight with the average Joe let alone a politician.
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Plus I dont know why you would bring Europe into it, maybe I missed that.  Because most of them already have very strict gun laws in place?

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I'm pretty sure Vance was referring to Biden's comment: "I can't imagine how we will be judged as a nation, as a people, as individuals, if we do nothing. It is simply unacceptable"

Judged as a nation... by Europe, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Vance.
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1310633_tn?1289313024
I thought that just recently, everyone on your team was shouting from the rooftops, about how violent crime was down, under President Obama.

But now, for the purpose of this particular argument, you produce an article that says that violent crime is up.

I'm confused.

Is crime UP or DOWN under President Obama?
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Avatar_m_tn
I'm not on any team el. That might be how you see things and I understand that it makes it simpler for you but it really has nothing to do with me. You're the black and white guy - not me. You're the up or down guy el and that's about all you've been

I post articles that I think are relevant irrespective of how they relate to politics. That violent crime post was just like my post about bank robberies - there was no ulterior motive and I wasn't laying the tidbits between the lines. It was informational and that's all it was.

I know that you're confused el - that's been quite clear for some time now.

Good luck,
Mike
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Wow
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You sure do change your mind a lot, Mike.

One minute, President Obama is responsible for lowering crime, and "everyone" (those on the Left) is singing his praises.

The next minute, crime is going up (as now it's convenient for it to be going up), because there're too many guns on the streets.

As Brice likes to say... you can't have it both ways.

Maybe you can post an article about how President Obama is responsible for a RISING crime-rate. I mean heck... if he's responsible for it when it drops, surely that makes him responsible for it when it rises.

No?
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Most americans agree there needs to be stricter gun laws in this country. Now we will see if these politicians, both sides, listen to the wishes of the people or bow to special interests that pad their own pockets.
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Avatar_m_tn
You're becoming delusional and with your limited capacity that's not a good sign.

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179856_tn?1333550962
Most americans agree there needs to be stricter gun laws in this country"

Yes they do indeed.  Let's hope that a few irrational people dont keep on 'fighting for their freedom to fight the government'...how ludicrous.  
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Avatar_m_tn
But those laws won't reach the criminals....
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1310633_tn?1289313024
That was my point... which seems to have gotten lost, when I was labeled "delusional".

Criminals don't abide by the law.  

Having "limited capacity", I can see how some would think me stoopid.

Hello pot, my name's kettle.
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206807_tn?1331939784
This is why I’m against it.
1. I don’t trust our Government (Republican or Democrat) and see it as opening Pandora’s Box. Once the door is opened, it will be just the beginning.
2. New Laws are not going to change a thing.
3. We have laws against drugs but tons of Cocaine, Heroin, Marijuana, flow into our country and we are defenseless in stopping it. Like Prohibition, all it is going to do is open the door for another Under World Trade Market.
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Avatar_m_tn
I read something the other day on the FBI site that violent crime had been on a 7 or 9 near slide for the positive... less violent crime.  As well, they had a disclosure similar to "until lately".  (Maybe its a sign of the times?)  

I've received a few emails in the last month that said that every one of the perps in the last 4 massacres were democrats or somehow affiliated with the democrat party.... Perhaps that means nothing....

There are numerous laws regarding to "driving impaired" and we still have impaired drivers on the road.  Numerous laws against perverts and we still have perverts everywhere.  You name it and we have laws against it and we still have people committing these crimes.  What we still aren't getting to is the PEOPLE.  People is the problem.  People intent on committing crimes are going to do so.  

You would think that with a 7-9 year slide in violent crimes that perhaps laws are making a difference or that people are starting to behave.... fact is, people were committing less violent crime hence the 7-9 year slide.  It had nothing to do with the legislation and proof of that is that according to some facts posted above, people are again committing violent crimes.  

Why?  That's were our efforts need to be towards.  Laws don't stop crimes.  Laws make criminals work harder to not be detected, IMO.  And for those bent on committing crimes, the laws mean nothing.  These bad guys are fine with risking anything in order to commit crimes.  (Look at jail populations across the country)

It's been said that we have more laws than any other nation out there and it is for damned sure that we have more people in jail than anywhere else on the globe.  Doesn't that tell you something???
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Ft  Hood~~~ Registered Democrat ~  Muslim

Columbine ~~~ Too young to vote;  both families were registered     Democrats and progressive liberals

Virginia Tech ~~~ Wrote hate mail to President Bush and to his staff ~ Registered Democrat

Colorado Theater ~~~  Registered Democrat;  staff worker on the Obama campaign;  Occupy Wall  Street participant; progressive liberal

Connecticut   School Shooter- ~~~ Registered Democrat;  hated Christians,

Christopher Dorner's list of admired pals,99% liberal Democrats
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/07/christopher-dorner-celebrity_n_2642111.html

perhaps the gun ban is focused in the wrong direction???

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Now wait a minute gene53.  Christopher Dorner was a cop.  He is entitled to have an AR, right?  

(Don't worry, I just hit myself with the cast iron skillet.)
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(crickets)

chirp-chirp... chirp-chirp
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285927_tn?1380802356
I didnt read all the threads, but Dorner has a lot more than an AR and they are illegal in California. One of em, I forget the name has bullets as big as a dollar bill and another looks like a freaking canon. They said the one gun has the power to go thru an engine block and disable a car and you can zone in on your target from a mile away.

And you have a pissed offed person, with a vindetta against the police department whether they are in uniform or not, and their families. Didnt I hear he set his car on fire too? This guy is dangerous beyond dangerous.
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If anyone is interested here is what appears to be Dorner's entire manifesto. I could only find abbreviated versions until I stumbled on this one.
It's fascinating reading......up to a point.

http://www.crimefilenews.com/
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Christopher Dorner was a cop.  He is entitled to have an AR, right?  LOL, Yep!!!  or 50cal or whatever... maybe have to rephrase that to " was entitled "
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1310633_tn?1289313024
Thanks for posting the link to Dorner's manifesto... interesting read.

The most interesting part, IMO:

***
"If you had a well regulated AWB, this would not happen. The time is now to reinstitute a ban that will save lives. Why does any sportsman need a 30 round magazine for hunting? Why does anyone need a suppressor? Why does anyone need a AR15 rifle? This is the same small arms weapons system utilized in eradicating Al Qaeda, Taliban, and every enemy combatant since the Vietnam war. Don't give me that crap that its not a select fire or full auto rifle like the DoD uses. That's ******** because troops who carry the M-4/M-16 weapon system for combat ops outside the wire rarely utilize the select fire function when in contact with enemy combatants. The use of select fire probably isn't even 1% in combat. So in essence, the AR-15 semiautomatic rifle is the same as the M-4/M-16. These do not need to be purchased as easily as walking to your local Walmart or striking the enter key on your keyboard to "add to cart". All the firearms utilized in my activities are registered to me and were legally purchased at gun stores and private party transfers. All concealable weapons (pistols) were also legally register in my name at police stations or FFL's. Unfortunately, are you aware that I obtained class III weapons (suppressors) without a background check thru NICS or DROS completely LEGALLY several times? I was able to use a trust account that I created on quicken will maker and a $10 notary charge at a mailbox etc. to obtain them legally. Granted, I am not a felon, nor have a DV misdemeanor conviction or active TRO against me on a NCIC file. I can buy any firearm I want, but should I be able to purchase these class III weapons (SBR's, and suppressors) without a background check and just a $10 notary signature on a quicken will maker program? The answer is NO. I'm not even a resident of the state i purchased them in. Lock n Load just wanted money so they allow you to purchase class III weapons with just a notarized trust, military ID. Shame on you, Lock n Load. NFA and ATF need new laws and policies that do not allow loopholes such as this. In the end, I hope that you will realize that the small arms I utilize should not be accessed with the ease that I obtained them. Who in there right mind needs a ******* silencer!!! who needs a freaking SBR AR15? No one. No more Virginia Tech, Columbine HS, Wisconsin temple, Aurora theatre, Portland malls, Tucson rally, Newtown Sandy Hook. Whether by executive order or thru a bi-partisan congress an assault weapons ban needs to be re-instituted. Period!!!"
***

He makes some good points, above, about the ease with which he was able to purchase his weapons 'systems', and I think that any loopholes in the current system, need to be closed (especially the ones he described).

Kinda kooky, the way he gave "shout outs" to basically every celebrity he could think of, not to mention the odd political figure.

Thanks again for posting...
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I read the Link you posted and watched the Anderson Cooper Video. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/07/christopher-dorner-celebrity_n_2642111.html
Anderson was wrong about “The Medallion” and referred to it as a “Keepsake Souvenir”. He missed a good point. It was actually his Police Challenge Coin that he shot holes in.

A challenge coin is a small coin or medallion (usually military), bearing an organization’s insignia or emblem and carried by the organization’s members. Traditionally, they are given to prove membership when challenged and to enhance morale. In addition, they are also collected by service members. In practice, challenge coins are normally presented by unit commanders in recognition of special achievement by a member of the unit.

After reading the Link, I was surprised that he appeared to be an intelligent & normal person.  The one thing that did stand out.
“The letter, posted to his personal Facebook profile, delves into controversial subjects for the LAPD -- accusations of racism among officers, blatant use of the "n-word"

But yet he  lists Louis CK as “Pure Genius”. Louis CK is known for his Racist Comedy. Here are a couple of examples on Youtube.
Louis CK - Being White
Patrice Oneal and Louis CK share etymologies

Maybe it’s because he smart enough to realize, he is a Comedian. I don’t know, I guess I was expecting to read the ranting of a deranged man
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I wonder if he is bi polar?
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1310633_tn?1289313024
"...The letter, posted to his personal Facebook profile, delves into controversial subjects for the LAPD -- accusations of racism among officers, blatant use of the "n-word"...

I think that should read: "...racism among officers AND THEIR blatant use of the "n-word"...

I read the whole thing, and HE doesn't use the "n" word frequently, unless he's describing a situation in which it was used by a fellow officer.

His problem with the "n" word, was when 2 officers were having a discussion in the back of a van, used the "n" word in their convo, he had a problem with it and asked them to stop, they didn't, and he proceeded to jump across seats and other officers to strangle the guy that said it!

THEN, he proceeds to say that what he SHOULD HAVE DONE, was shoot the guy in the face.

Yeah, he's not a whack'job AT ALL!

Intelligent, yes, but crazy as a loon!!!

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I wonder if he is bi polar?
Could be, it wouldn’t surprise me if he turns up dead from suicide. I kind of hope he does. I doubt he will turn himself in and if he doesn’t kill himself, there will be more murders.
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I dont think he will committ suicide. I could be wrong but it seems more like he wants to handle those he feels did him wrong. They talked about how intelligent he sounds and he has extensive background training from the navy and I think they said he was one of the trainers on the police force? He also eluded to the fact that he had done every other option available to him to no avail and that included courts. It would be interesting to find out how that went? And why?

I have no doubt some of his gripes are justified, but to do what he has done and is threatening to do? If he is going to die, he is taking alot of em with him is my bet.

And I thought it very interesting when the lapd police chief admonished the news sites for carrying or giving his causes airtime? That told me right there that maybe they do have something to hide and its not all about giving other whackos ideas of copycatting.
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He's going to die, one way or another. They won't take him alive, whether it's by his own hand (i'm in agreement with Teko on this, he won't kill himself), or he's killed at the hands of the police, or other.

He kept on alluding to the fact that he "...wouldn't be around to see it...", or "I'm not going to see the results of...", etc.

He KNEW that "they" were/are going to take him out, one way or another, before this is over and done with.

Get the crazy f*k off the planet. Something in him "snapped", and when people that have guns "snap", it's never a good situation.
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