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Big stakes for Biden and Ryan in VP debate
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Big stakes for Biden and Ryan in VP debate

Rarely has a vice presidential debate been as crucial as the one between Vice President Biden and Rep. Paul Ryan on Thursday night will be. After Mitt Romney’s lopsided victory over President Obama in Denver last week, the exchange will arrive at a fluid and potentially pivotal moment in the campaign.

For the Obama team, Thursday will offer an opportunity to short-circuit the advances Romney has made since the first presidential debate. For the GOP, Ryan will have a chance to piggyback on Romney’s performance and solidify the gains their ticket has made in recent days.

The stakes are also higher than usual because the participants have a standing beyond their roles as running mates. They are real players, not potted plants or a sideshow to the main event.

Biden is vice president and therefore fully accountable for what has gone right and wrong on Obama’s watch. He is a central player in the administration who has not shirked from offering the president unvarnished advice. He also speaks with the credibility of someone who has been in public life for four decades, with wide experience in foreign and domestic policy.

Ryan, too, is more than just a vice presidential nominee plucked from obscurity to fill out a national ticket. The House Budget Committee chairman may have a limited public profile nationally, but he has served seven terms in Congress and, of far greater significance, his peers consider him the intellectual leader of the Republican Party for his work on the budget and the economy.

If you doubt that, recall this: Long before Romney was the GOP nominee, Obama was attacking Ryan and his fiscal blueprint, an early foreshadowing of the 2012 campaign that has come into clearer focus this fall.

Some vice presidential debates are mere entertainment relative to the overall race, enjoyable but incidental to the fundamentals of the campaign. That was certainly the case four years ago when the forum, which drew a huge audience, was all about Sarah Palin, whose candidacy had captured the imaginations of friends and foes alike.

But the outcome of that exchange — a tie or modest victory for Palin in the eyes of many pundits and a win for Biden according to the public — did nothing to shift a race that already had moved away from Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and safely toward Obama. Thursday’s debate at Centre College in Danville, Ky., could be different.

National public polls show movement toward Romney since Denver. A Pew Research Center poll released Monday highlighted a big gain for Romney. Gallup began posting a sample of likely voters from its tracking poll and Tuesday’s showed Romney leading 49 percent to 47 percent. Among registered voters, Obama was ahead 49 percent to 46 percent.

GOP enthusiasm is up, which is good news for Romney. But more evidence is needed to know how much the landscape in the battleground states has been changed by the debate. CNN released a poll of Ohio on Wednesday that showed two things: Romney has narrowed the gap there, but the president is still ahead among likely voters by 51 percent to 47 percent. Other battleground surveys are expected by week’s end, and they should give a clearer picture of the state of play.

Romney advisers say the key battlegrounds are now within the margin of error, a significant shift from two weeks ago, when Obama led in Ohio, for example, by six to 10 points, depending on the survey. They are far more bullish today than they were a few weeks ago amid Romney’s difficulties.

Obama advisers say they, too, have seen some movement toward Romney but make two points to counter what the Romney team is saying. In Ohio, for example, they say that they still believe the president holds a real lead and that they remain narrowly ahead in a number of other states.

They argue that the big margins of two weeks ago were always destined to tighten, given everything that is known about these states from past campaigns. The debates, they say, accelerated a process that was likely to happen sometime in October.

But from their research, the race has begun to settle down. Romney is not continuing to gain ground. “Romney has consolidated some of the gains he was going to get anyway,” said White House senior adviser David Plouffe. “We weren’t going to win battlegrounds by 10 points.”

The campaigns aren’t playing the expectations game ahead of this debate as vigorously as they did before the first presidential debate. Biden is knowledgeable and an experienced debater. Republicans expect he will give Ryan a tough exchange. Ryan also is considered smart, substantive and authentic. Some Democrats regard him as a better communicator than Romney. They don’t anticipate he will stumble.

Ryan has several possible weaknesses. He knows the budget to such a level of detail that he could fall into wonk-talk if he’s not careful. What works on the House floor or in an inside-the-Beltway debate won’t necessarily work with a television audience of 50 million or more. As one Republican noted, Ryan has to resist being chairman of the House Budget Committee on Thursday night.

Nerves also could be an issue. Ryan has never debated on a stage this big. He has much at stake. Beyond this election, there is the question of his future as a national Republican leader — a possible presidential candidate in 2016 if Romney loses.

Biden’s potential weaknesses are well known. One is a propensity to be windy, although he was anything but that against Palin. He has a history of verbal gaffes, but mostly when he’s unscripted or lets his guard down, which shouldn’t be the case Thursday. He could appear condescending or patronizing to his younger rival. He could be too aggressive. He also must defend Obama’s record on the economy, which the president did not do effectively last week.

Ryan said this week that he expects Biden to be forceful on Thursday to make up the ground that Obama ceded to Romney last week. Biden will attempt to force Ryan to defend what the Obama campaign considers Romney’s dishonest performance in Denver.

The vice president’s attacks probably will focus on Ryan’s budget, which Romney has embraced only in part, and he’s likely to try to make Ryan the issue as much as Romney. Ryan’s challenge will be to make an appealing case for his worldview while making clear that Romney is the head of the ticket and running on his own platform.

The next presidential debate will be held Tuesday at Hofstra University in New York, but what happens Thursday in Kentucky is likely to have a big effect on how things look by the time Obama and Romney meet again.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/big-stakes-for-biden-and-ryan-in-vp-debate/2012/10/09/b24d55de-1249-11e2-be82-c3411b7680a9_print.html
112 Comments
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Can't wait!
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I feel a little bit of the 'pins and needles' feeling.  

Can I just say that I can not wait until Nov. 7th and this is all over.  Like, let's just rip the band aid off and get the OUCH over with . . . whichever way it goes.  

I'm not a huge believer in the VP debates being all that meaningful overall.  I always wondered why Obama picked Biden to be his running mate.  He is okay but at that time, I thought there were better choices.  Romney picked a young Republican that appeals to the far right that he is less attractive to.  At least that is my take on it.  

Anyway, ready to just either have Obama for another four years or Romney and begin dealing with it rather than being anxiously waiting.  
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Wish they were starting earlier; I'm tired by 10:00........
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"Can I just say that I can not wait until Nov. 7th and this is all over.  Like, let's just rip the band aid off and get the OUCH over with . . . whichever way it goes."

I SO AGREE!!!!  
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ME TOO! I may have to do the drink game I heard about on CNN. Everytime you hear Joe, take a drink, everytime you see Ryans hair move, take a drink, everytime you hear the word deficit, take a drink, jobs take a drink. By the time the thing is over, WHO CARES!!!!


Till the next morning!!!
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LOL    I might play with you...........
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Oh I am so playing.. God knows I need to get smashed...LOL
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shoot, it's at 10 pm.  I might be taking shots of coffee to stay awake!!  But I'm playing too!!  
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I will follow your reactions here first and watch the clips later. I am glad I don't have a TV, I think the tension would be too much, lol.
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Here is the info for the debate tonight


Vice Presidential
Watch Live Stream
Topic: Foreign and domestic policy
Air Time: 9:00-10:30 p.m. Eastern Time
Location: Centre College in Danville, Kentucky (Tickets)
Sponsor: Commission on Presidential Debates
Participants: Vice President Joe Biden and Congressman Paul Ryan
Moderator: Martha Raddatz (ABC News Chief Foreign Correspondent)
The debate will cover both foreign and domestic topics and be divided into nine time segments of approximately 10 minutes each. The moderator will ask an opening question, after which each candidate will have two minutes to respond. The moderator will use the balance of the time in the segment for a discussion of the question.

http://www.2012presidentialelectionnews.com/2012-debate-schedule/2012-presidential-debate-schedule/
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And then, here is the schedule and format for the other debates....


Tuesday
October 16, 2012
Topic: Town meeting format including foreign and domestic policy
Air Time: 9:00-10:30 p.m. Eastern Time
Location: Hofstra University in Hempstead, New York (Tickets)
Sponsor: Commission on Presidential Debates
Participants: President Barack Obama and Governor Mitt Romney
Moderator: Candy Crowley (CNN Chief Political Correspondent)
The second presidential debate will take the form of a town meeting, in which citizens will ask questions of the candidates on foreign and domestic issues. Candidates each will have two minutes to respond, and an additional minute for the moderator to facilitate a discussion. The town meeting participants will be undecided voters selected by the Gallup Organization.


Monday
October 22, 2012
Topic: Foreign policy
Air Time: 9:00-10:30 p.m. Eastern Time
Location: Lynn University in Boca Raton, Florida (Tickets)
Sponsor: Commission on Presidential Debates
Participants: President Barack Obama and Governor Mitt Romney
Moderator: Bob Schieffer (Host of Face the Nation on CBS)
The format for the debate will be identical to the first presidential debate and will focus on foreign policy.
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It actually starts at 9:00, but will go to at least 10:30.
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By that time we drinkers will be passed out anyway! LOL

Take two aspirin and see ya in the am!
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ha ha.  Well, I hope to be passed out before the SPIN begins as that usually makes me a little nauseated.  

I hate that after stuff.  I watch the debate and take from it what I want before the spin masters go into over drive.  
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During the last presidential debate I was twittering and Chris Matthews came on. I think they even made a snl sequence on it telling Obama to look at what he did ! You broke Chris! And it showed a clip of Chris waving his arms in the air, hair messed up, and saying things like Where was Obama! Why didnt he ask him this, and why didnt he ask him that!

Well as I was saying, I watched it unfold and I gotta tell ya, when the emotions calmed down after a day or so, and I didnt feel like crying anymore, I went back and viewed the clip and laughed till I cried! It was SOOO funny!

Not the fact that Obama did so poorly, but the reaction from Chris was absolutely hilarious. He jokes about it now. So yes, the after can be quite entertaining if your in the right frame of mind! LOL
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Well, it IS hysterical really.  The average Joe citizen can see these people that have to be on one side or another 'fix' whatever has just happened.  It is pretty predicatable who will say what at times.  I don't need to hear from the campaign managers of either candidate after a debate.  I get it.  You have a lot riding on the whole thing---  you are going to accentuate the positives and minimize the negatives.  Got it.  

I crack up now when they do the play by play complete with audience reaction at the bottem of the tv screen.  Then they show the high moments and the low moments.  It really is funny.  
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1530342_tn?1384926301
SO NERVOUS!!!
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So. does everyone have their drinks handy! I have tequila so maybe I shall have a margarita or two or maybe even three! Pop the popcorn and take a prilosec!
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Don't be nervous sweetie.  It will be okay.  There will be a winner, there will be a loser---  and tomorrow will go on.  

Tonight's debate is important but it is the two after this one that will make a little nervous.  

Listen, this country is strong no matter who our next president is.  We have to believe that and stand together through it.  
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YUP! CHIANTI!
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Chianti is my favorite too!  See how much we have in common!!  
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Im nervous too, Biden has a lot to carry off tonight making up for Obamas mishap and I sure wouldnt want to be him. eweeee!

chianti!!!! mmmm good!
special, you got your coffee pot on?

Yes, regardless of how it turns out, tomorrow will come and it will be what it will be.......... Nope, didnt work Im still nervous!
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No, I had a change of heart.  Going for the booze.  LOL  

Okay, how pathetic is this.  My husband is out of the country this week . . . and it has been a LONG one.  So, I stopped by the store and picked up snacks for the debate.  LOL

yep, I'm gonna have me a little party.  
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rofl, Join the PAR TAY!!!!
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I think Biden is doing well.
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VERY WELL!!

On my 2nd Glass of Chianti!
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20 minutes in and I think they are both doing well.  I am cheering on Biden though, I really do not like Ryan.  Sorry, I just don't.  I can't put my finger on precisely why he worries me so much, but he really does.
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Kicking butt!
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1530342_tn?1384926301
BIDEN IS ON FIRE!!!!
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Biden is doing exceptionally well on Iran and Employment.  On the Libya issue, I'd say they were both good.  Ryan seems a bit rattled, but he is still holding his own I think.  
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Yea he is but Joe is beating that A$$....
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OMG! He is really on fire! Go JOE!
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Lol.  I can't go that far, but I agree, Joe is doing well.  I love the way you put things though!!  You go girlfriend!!!!
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Hm.  I think Joe needs to quit 'trying' to be funny.  He's a few decades older and this young guy is holding his own against him.  Yeah, Ryanhas not been in a VP election before and isn't seasoned like Biden.  And still doing O.K.
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Did you get a tv???  :>)  Or are you just enjoying the g-ale?
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I think Biden is running in the ground every time Ryan speaks, he starts fake laughing. It’s getting old and may hurt him.
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He's laughing because Ryan is not saying this that are correct. He is fact checking Ryan in real time on split screen...YEA JOE!
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Thanks to Teko's advice, I got livestream. Just followed her directions... Yay!
This is fun and I concede Ryan 2 credits during the debate on Foreign policy.
It is very lively and I like this biden  guy.
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I am enjoying my spinach artichoke dip.  
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:-) sounds yum
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No, it’s a fake laugh. A game hoping the weak-minded will fall for it. 4 Times while I was typing this.
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Wow! This mediator is the best!
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Actually R, that is why I can't say Joe is on fire.  I think he is handling the debate very well, but I too don't like the laughing.  I actually find it to be very condescending.  I also wish Joe wouldn't interrupt as much.  I guess I just prefer respectful behavior?  If Joe would stop doing those two things, I think he would actually be even better.  
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"No, it’s a fake laugh. A game hoping the weak-minded will fall for it. 4 Times while I was typing this."

I respectfully disagree! Biden is spanking that a$$...
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I agree Rivil, she is doing great!  This debate is actually better then the Presidential one I think.
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Everytime you say that I laugh.  Not at you in a mean way, I just love the way you put things...lol.  And adore your enthusiasm.  
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Mitt was very condescending and people ate it up?
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Yes, it is not business like or professional at all.  Can you imagine being in an important negotiation or business meeting with someone who kept laughing like that?  It seems contrived.  He has his experience and that fact that he is the current VP to ride on---  he doesn't need showy laughter at someone he is debating.  ya know what I mean?  

I'm not saying he isn't doing well or that Ryan is beating him---  but I think the way he is handling himself is strange for his experience level.

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and yes, this dip is VERY yum.
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Amanda, after last week, I am VERY PLEASED with Joe's performance. He's not shaken, he's sticking to the facts, he's getting the point across and most importantly, he is doing what the President didn't do and should've done!...So yes I am enthused and most if all /i am proud and all the blue heads should be as well...
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I really like this moderator. Biden has been a little over the top a few times..unbecoming.
Still, he is really good tonight.
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But what you have to remember is that this debate isn't for US.  We already know who we are voting for.  It's the undecided voters who notoriously do not like negativity between candidates during a debate.  I guess we'll see if the snickering works for him???  It may, it just may.  
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I'm glad.  And please don't think I was making fun of you, I'm not.  For some reason every time you say a$$ it tickles my funny bone.  He is doing well, and you should be proud.  He is handling all the questions very well.  The laughing and interupting are my only criticisms - I just don't like those qualities in any one.  Personal pet peeve I guess.
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" I really like this moderator. Biden has been a little over the top a few times..unbecoming."

I think he needs to be! They have nothing to lose and EVERYTHING to gain!
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Not sure if they have this on every channel, but are you watching that little line thingy for undecided voters in the audience?  Every time one of them interuppts, or says something negative about the other, the line dips.  When they stick to facts and answer directly, the line goes up.  Interesting.
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I think it is the 'unbecoming' part that he might want to avoid from the above quote.  ???
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Yeah, but flipping Ryan off? Please! It detracts from his eloquence.
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Adgal, tha was exactly what I was talking about.  While we high five our candidate ----  when they are negative, undecided voters don't like it.  That was on CNN last week during the other debate.  They have a room of undecided voters and they are tracking how they respond to these guys.

Notoriously, they don't like the negative style.  
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That's politics! Game on!
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I'm gonna have to get out the doritos next.
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Yummmmm Doritos! I luv cool ranch. How about you?
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LOL
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Love your enthusiasm Mrs. P-wish I was watching with you so I could retire that little voice in my head and glory in the blood bath!!
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I call it. Romney/Ryan 1 Obama/Biden 1..On to next Tuesday!
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Ryan is really not doing well
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Got my cool Ranch right here!  

Like I said . . . I can't wait until Nov. 7th so I can lose this election weight!  
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Is the next Presidential debate the last one?

If it is, that is going to be a huge big deal I think.  I hope Obama brings his A game this time, and I suspect he will.  I know people like to say he can't speak well without his teleprompter, but I remember how well he did in debates the last election.  He is sooo good when he wants to be.

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Oh boy, she went there.  On to the abortion issue....this oughta be interesting.
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There are two more elections.  The next one is a 'town hall' type which I think they say Obama likes best.  I'm sure he'll do fine.  
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YES!! here we go! I really like this moderator
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DEBATES/ not elections.  
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   Looks like they’re both holding their own. I don’t think this debate is going to have much impact on polls. I’m heading for an Ambian. Hopefully it will kick in about the time this is over.
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Lol, Specialmom, did you ever confuse me for a second.  Thought maybe you guys were switching over to elections Canadian style...if the official oppostition doesn't like the results, they just call another one...ha.

Joe is handling this question well.  This is the part that Ryan scares me on.  
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hey, that question is the one that Democrats were waiting for because it is is a passionate question.  Ryan was honest knowing that that particular question stirs controversy.  He didn't go over the top and to his credit, neither did Biden.  Someone must have whispered in his ear piece to tone it down.  
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Yes Ryan answered that question just fine!
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Ha.  Well, remember----  there really is a pretty large population that believe what he is saying is the best thing.  He will appeal to those people.  
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DAMN GOOD DEBATE!
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RYAN
He embarrasses me with his slogans-not a real bone in that body!
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Yep, my opinion of Ryan hasn't changed.  I just don't like the man.  I am not Biden's biggest fan, but I do think he did very well in this one.  Sounds like CNN is calling it a draw.  I would disagree there, but we'll see what the commentators say.
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Well, I did think his closing was weak.  I thought he did alright otherwise as i was actually expecting him to do worse.  

But I will say that I like Biden less than before.  That laugh was obnoxious.  

Okay, yack at you folks tomorrow.  
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There are 2 more Presidential debates..

"
Tuesday
October 16, 2012
Topic: Town meeting format including foreign and domestic policy
Air Time: 9:00-10:30 p.m. Eastern Time
Location: Hofstra University in Hempstead, New York (Tickets)
Sponsor: Commission on Presidential Debates
Participants: President Barack Obama and Governor Mitt Romney
Moderator: Candy Crowley (CNN Chief Political Correspondent)
The second presidential debate will take the form of a town meeting, in which citizens will ask questions of the candidates on foreign and domestic issues. Candidates each will have two minutes to respond, and an additional minute for the moderator to facilitate a discussion. The town meeting participants will be undecided voters selected by the Gallup Organization.


Monday
October 22, 2012
Topic: Foreign policy
Air Time: 9:00-10:30 p.m. Eastern Time
Location: Lynn University in Boca Raton, Florida (Tickets)
Sponsor: Commission on Presidential Debates
Participants: President Barack Obama and Governor Mitt Romney
Moderator: Bob Schieffer (Host of Face the Nation on CBS)
The format for the debate will be identical to the first presidential debate and will focus on foreign policy."

Thanks for the info Teko!
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Well now! I am super happy with Bidens performance! His body language was a little over the top and what is up with these grins!

In the first presidential debate
Romney reminded me of the dude in the munsters with his grin, and biden had to be irritating as heck to the pubs.....but me, I loved it!

I think there is still a lot of stuff to cover, but this debate was good and actually Romney did pretty well to go up against a well seasoned guy like Biden.

But Biden made sure the facts were on the table. Awesome!
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Thanks Mrs.P.

I have been sitting here trying to pinpoint exactly why I don't like Ryan and I think I know what it is.

His stance on social issues like abortion and gay marriage are obvious ones for me.  I just could not vote for someone who would attempt to illegalize abortion or keep marriage only between men and women (again, I have no issue with what peoples personal feelings on these topics are, only what they try to legislate).  

But the other part of it his very strong language when it comes to war in the Middle East.  I agree with him that a nuclear armed Iran would be a worse case scenario, but I feel like he is about war first, talk later.  I do like Biden (and of course Obama's) way of dealing with this issue much better, and their stance that war is the worst case scenario. and only when all else fails.  I totally disagree that that stance makes the US look weak.  Quite the contrary actually.  I can't help but feel that they would drag the US (and it's allies) right back into another war.

And then I thought Ryan contradicted himself on the issue of the military.  On one hand, he said that he would increase marines presence in Libya, but then later on talked about decreasing troops, and other military funding.  Maybe I just didn't understand him, but that confused me a great deal.  

I tried to look at this as if I had a vote, and if I was undecided.  I can't honestly say that Ryan did or said anything to take me over to the right, but not sure I can say Biden said much of anything to take me left either.  Still, I came out of this feeling better about the left then the right.  That's me trying to be unbiased..ha.
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Agree with all of the above comments.

MY take/observations:

*Biden was a bit rude and interrupted WAY too much
*Felt a WEE bit like the moderator was harder on Ryan.  Biden avoided answering some questions directly (like the Libya issue), but was not called on it...she called Ryan on skirting around the "math" issue with the economy/deficit.  Did not curtail the interruptions.
*Biden was more "real"
*Ryan felt overly rehearsed at times
*Biden was disrespectful of the process
*Ryan repeated a lot of what Romney said, would have liked to seen some fresh approaches of the talking points
*Biden looking int he camera addressing the "people" was cheesy
*Ryan's closing remarks were cheesy and too "ad like", again too rehearsed
*Ryan looked like a baby with the age difference
*Ryan started off stronger, became rattled with Biden's aggressiveness
*Ryan was thirsty
*Biden was more relaxed, more seasoned
*Ryan did better on foreign policy
*Biden did better on the economy/deficit
*Abortion...tie
*Defense....tie, Biden maybe a bit stronger
*Healthcare...Biden
*Ryan was REALLY thirsty
*Biden's story about his wife/daughter was sad (never knew that)
*Story about Romney helping the family was touching
*Ryan does very well when talking about Romney
*Ryan talked more about Romney/Biden more about himself
*Biden didn't thank Ryan/Ryan thanked Biden
*Ryan's wife looks like she's 12 (but cute!).

I'm sure there is a bunch more, but that's my knee-jerk reaction/take on the debate.  In comparison to the debate last week, Biden did very well for the dems.  Overall, I'd say Biden did slightly better on preparedness and orgnaization, and speaking "off the cuff", but acted poorly a good bit of the time.  Hard to say what the undecided people will think, like SM said, that's who matters in these kinds of things.  We already have our minds made up.

It was a good one, I enjoyed watching it!

I had NO snacks!  :0(
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*Ryan was thirsty

Sure was!

"*Ryan did better on foreign policy "

I respectfully disagree

*Ryan was REALLY thirsty
HAHA..Yea he was
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Amanda, he wasn't talking about increasing military presence in Libya, but rather how there should have been military protection (a marine assignment) for the ambassador and staff there, in light of the situation there, and the tragic attack that resulted.

I also don't think he is about war first, he said many times, obviously everyone would prefer to resolve these issues peacefully.  I think he was cautioning people that he feels the Obama admin has NOT done enough to head off Iran's efforts to make nuclear weapons.  The whole convo to me, personally, was unnerving, and personally, I feel more "protected" with the R/R stance.  Declaring any type of war is a very unpopular decision, I doubt any pres would prefer to do that.

Biden's answer, however, was good, that IF miltary action was necessary, they would ensure the world is behind them.  Even though that's sort of a talking point, it sounded good.

Iran makes me nervous.  I don't like the fact thaty NEITHER of them could be very specific about "how close" they are to succeeding in their weaponry.  I get the top secret stuff, but still.  And sorry, but Biden saying that they have everything they need BUT something to put it in made my skin crawl.  I thought, crap...there goes the sales of missile containers to Iran from Al Queda.
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Ha, snacks are key my friend!!  What about the cocktails . . .  did you have those??  

Ya know, I tentatively turned on CNN for the 'spin' and was quite pleasantly surprised.  Lots of good remarks for Ryan and based on many things, it is called a draw.  

I would think that they are pretty pleased with this response.  While last week it was all about Obama doing poorly . . .  this week is about the surprise that Ryan didn't do bad.  

The snacks were still the highlight of my night though.  
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Mrs. P....I was wondering what was going to happen if he ran out of water!!!

All in all, a very good debate.  
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No cocktails either.  If you guys all did the drinking game you were planning, it's a wonder you could even SEE your TVs!

OH!  I know something that bothered me...Biden's constantly referring to Ryan as "my friend here", that was on my nerves.  BOTH of them kept opening their statements with "LOOK...."  That was on my nerves too.

:0)
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I heard them on the radio, and I don't think Ryan did well on foreign policy and I really have a hard time with anyone wanting to force their beliefs on others.
Don't believe in abortion ? Then don't have one and work harder for accessible birth control so there is less need for abortions.

This is kind of weird, and  off topic, but Ryan's whites showing around his eyeballs bother's me. Not sure why that is.
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LOL at OH.  The little piece of hair sticking up on Ryan's head (in the front, on purpose) annoyed me.  And Biden's teeth annoyed me.

LOL

Not nit picking or anything.
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" Mrs. P....I was wondering what was going to happen if he ran out of water!!!"

ROTFL...OMG it's like you were in my head!..LOL..BTW WELCOME TO CE!
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I understand what your saying.  And thanks for clarifying the Libya comments, it did leave me perplexed.  Actually, the whole issue has my head spinning - not sure what to think there.

The foreign policy issues are really tough to call.  I do see it a bit differently and feel Biden did better - he seemed more focused on the facts then speculation.  And I trusted him when he said that Iran is still a long ways away from an actual bomb (and I can tell you my friend, that is something I truly do lose sleep over - I don't doubt for a milisecond that the nutjob running that country would use it if he had it).  I did like the fact that both sides do seem to agree Iran is going to have to be dealt with.  I just felt the democratic approach more suites my personal belief system I guess (not saying your a war advocate, I know that is not at all what you mean).  

It was interesting.  Funny - Romney is ok by me, or at least was until that 47% comment (strangely enough, I think I liked him better in the early days then even the Republicans in this group did..lol).  I really can't get past that 47% thing for whatever reason.  Now, granted, I do tend to be left leaning, but have voted conservative in the past, so I guess I'm probably somewhere in the middle.  But for me, Ryan being on that ticket really seals the deal - it would push me to the left (or nudge me I guess as I do relate better to them) if I could vote.  Just something about him I guess.  Too extreme for me maybe?  I do find Romney to be more moderate by a long shot then Ryan, and I like that.  
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I was in your head!  I planted a few repub views in there.  ;0)

Thanks for the welcome.
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And I'm with OH - I still could never bring myself to vote for someone (even though he is only second in command) that would try to make abortion illegal, and advocates against equality in marriage.  I just could not.  Those issues are too big a deal to me.  Again, with Romney, I don't see the hard stance on them, but I do with Ryan.  
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Ha.  His eye balls have too much white. LOL  

Well, they just talked about the unndecided voter on CNN.  Bad news for some . . .   Ryan held his own.  He had more high moments reported than Biden and fewer low moments than Biden.  And when they did votes gained from undecided for Obama and votes for Romney---  it was equal.  

Really,  I didn't expect it to be that good of a response.  I'm pleased for the sake of the campaign.  

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I hear ya, Amanda.  I understand what you're saying about the war issue.  Different in our thinking, which is okay.  I felt Biden actually was a bit more wishy washy about the bomb timeline.  Like, he was very dismissive, like, "Oh come on, it just ISN'T that way!" and then made the comment that could insinuate that all they need is something to put the materials in...I was like HUH?  That unnerved me.

I agree that overall, I think Ryan hurts the Romney ticket to an extent.  My hubby said tonight there should be seperate electiions, we shouldn't have to pick a "team".  Interesting thought.
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I saw that too, SM.

Obama has the pressure on him for next week, I actually feel for him.  The debates are important, but certainly don't always end up being too reflective.

I thought the questions at the end were great...about if they are ever embarassed about things said during campaigns, or the ads, and about each of them as a PERSON.  I wish both of them would have answered a bit more precisely, rather than just repeat their campaign points.  I know that's how it goes, but I would have liked to hear real answers there.
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My hubby is ultra conservative and would be Romney all the way in the US.  He also thinks the Romney economic policies would be far better for Canada then Obama's (trust me when I say the US trade/economic policies have a massive impact on us).  But he also doesn't like Ryan.  He would never vote Obama, but said that the Ryan addition could make him abstain from voting.  It's funny because Ryan would be considered far more right then Romney wouldn't he?  I guess my hubby is ultra conservative by our political standards which would perhaps be a bit more center (our politicians really don't get into the social issues like yours do) and I think that is what is throwing him with Ryan as well.

I have heard interesting comments here and there from Republicans on the news, etc.  Some of them have said that if the Republican Party sort of dropped it's stance on a lot of these social issues, it's likely more Independents would go their way.  Do you think that's true?  I have to say on economic issues, I like bits and pieces from both parties, and it's primarily the social issues that would steer me away, so it makes me wonder if others aren't feeling the same way.
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Ryan is more right, IMO.  I think both parties do better with candidates who are in the middle somewhere.  The average American is not far right or left, they're usually somewhere in the middle, agreeing with stances on both sides.  I think the average American is WAY more comfortable with a moderate candidate.  The extremes are outside the comfort zone for many.

I agree completely about the social issues. No doubt where the GOP is taking it in the gut.  Personally, regardless if R/R get in, I just can't see Roe v Wade getting overturned, no way.  I think their biggest impacts would be in budget cuts, not actual legislative changes on something that big.  I can't see it happening.

I used to be a registered Dem when I first turned 18, then a lot of my views changed as I learned more and educated myself more about govt/politiics as a whole...so I chaged and was registered Independent.  I finally made the change to actually register as a Republican a few years back.  The "label" didn't concern me as much as the fact that I was voting for who I wanted to.
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I wish issues like abortion and same sex marriage were 'only' decided upon by voters state to state.  I know why we have the supreme court but maybe we shouldn't be able to challenge every single law with appeal after appeal.  So if voters decide on an issue in a state, that's it.  

but it is late and I'm begining to drift into a too many snacks state of mine.  
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How I want to go to sleep too!  It's 10:30 here and an early day tomorrow.  However, little man has other ideas.  I put him to bed at about 7:45 and he is still bouncing around his room - I've used my "stern mommy voice" several times, to no avail. Hoping he wears himself out and falls asleep soon...I need to go to bed!

Good conversation here tonight - I learn so much when everything stays civil like this..lol.  I tend to tune out when it gets nasty.

Great to have you posting here ng.  Hope you stick around!!
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Oh, and sm - love you my friend, but I do disagree on voting on same sex marriage..lol.  But you knew I would!!  I feel it has to be viewed as a civil rights issue, not a voter issue.  However, that is a debate for another day!!  Sleep tight.
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Biden needed to not look like a pompous as and Ryan needed to humanize himself.  Neither succeeded....

If Biden would have quit laughing, he'd have done better.  His laughing regarding anything about these topics, to me is an embarrassment.  He could have swept the floor with Ryan like Romney did with the President if he would have, or could have acted sincere.... just a little bit more.

It was exactly what I expected.
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Did anyone else watch the after debate when the families went up on stage? I really wish the cameras would have stayed on them instead of cutting away for all the spin when they did.

Those folks genuinely DO like each other, every one was hugging everyone, it was a really nice touch and I felt like America needed to see that. I hope they play the video again, it was great.
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I thought Biden looked like he was showing off a new set of false teeth or something.
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HAHA!! They did look like Chicklets no?!...
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HeHeHe... I said before I was waiting for them to fall out on the floor! And Ryans eyeballs was so wide and you could see the whites and I thought they was gonna fall out too! LOL
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I noticed Ryan's eye's looked like they were bugging out; I kept wanting to blink for him...... probably scared to death of Biden's chiclets (good one MrsP) jumping out to bite him.............lol

Actually, my endo says that's a sign of too much thyroid hormone, and from watching Ryan's behavior, both last night, and other times, he strikes me as a prime candidate for hyperthyroidism/Graves Disease. Reminds me of  Thyroid Eye Disease.

What did you think of his little widow's peak?
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Eddie Munster. (Your gonna get me in trouble!) shhh!
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"What did you think of his little widow's peak" I really did LOL, I forgot all about it until I read your post
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ha,  ya.  Ryan has some poppers and a very carefully manipulated peak.  I'm pretty sure his hair doesn't move at all.  
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