Aa
Big stakes for Biden and Ryan in VP debate
Rarely has a vice presidential debate been as crucial as the one between Vice President Biden and Rep. Paul Ryan on Thursday night will be. After Mitt Romney’s lopsided victory over President Obama in Denver last week, the exchange will arrive at a fluid and potentially pivotal moment in the campaign.
For the Obama team, Thursday will offer an opportunity to short-circuit the advances Romney has made since the first presidential debate. For the GOP, Ryan will have a chance to piggyback on Romney’s performance and solidify the gains their ticket has made in recent days.
The stakes are also higher than usual because the participants have a standing beyond their roles as running mates. They are real players, not potted plants or a sideshow to the main event.
Biden is vice president and therefore fully accountable for what has gone right and wrong on Obama’s watch. He is a central player in the administration who has not shirked from offering the president unvarnished advice. He also speaks with the credibility of someone who has been in public life for four decades, with wide experience in foreign and domestic policy.
Ryan, too, is more than just a vice presidential nominee plucked from obscurity to fill out a national ticket. The House Budget Committee chairman may have a limited public profile nationally, but he has served seven terms in Congress and, of far greater significance, his peers consider him the intellectual leader of the Republican Party for his work on the budget and the economy.
If you doubt that, recall this: Long before Romney was the GOP nominee, Obama was attacking Ryan and his fiscal blueprint, an early foreshadowing of the 2012 campaign that has come into clearer focus this fall.
Some vice presidential debates are mere entertainment relative to the overall race, enjoyable but incidental to the fundamentals of the campaign. That was certainly the case four years ago when the forum, which drew a huge audience, was all about Sarah Palin, whose candidacy had captured the imaginations of friends and foes alike.
But the outcome of that exchange — a tie or modest victory for Palin in the eyes of many pundits and a win for Biden according to the public — did nothing to shift a race that already had moved away from Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and safely toward Obama. Thursday’s debate at Centre College in Danville, Ky., could be different.
National public polls show movement toward Romney since Denver. A Pew Research Center poll released Monday highlighted a big gain for Romney. Gallup began posting a sample of likely voters from its tracking poll and Tuesday’s showed Romney leading 49 percent to 47 percent. Among registered voters, Obama was ahead 49 percent to 46 percent.
GOP enthusiasm is up, which is good news for Romney. But more evidence is needed to know how much the landscape in the battleground states has been changed by the debate. CNN released a poll of Ohio on Wednesday that showed two things: Romney has narrowed the gap there, but the president is still ahead among likely voters by 51 percent to 47 percent. Other battleground surveys are expected by week’s end, and they should give a clearer picture of the state of play.
Romney advisers say the key battlegrounds are now within the margin of error, a significant shift from two weeks ago, when Obama led in Ohio, for example, by six to 10 points, depending on the survey. They are far more bullish today than they were a few weeks ago amid Romney’s difficulties.
Obama advisers say they, too, have seen some movement toward Romney but make two points to counter what the Romney team is saying. In Ohio, for example, they say that they still believe the president holds a real lead and that they remain narrowly ahead in a number of other states.
They argue that the big margins of two weeks ago were always destined to tighten, given everything that is known about these states from past campaigns. The debates, they say, accelerated a process that was likely to happen sometime in October.
But from their research, the race has begun to settle down. Romney is not continuing to gain ground. “Romney has consolidated some of the gains he was going to get anyway,” said White House senior adviser David Plouffe. “We weren’t going to win battlegrounds by 10 points.”
The campaigns aren’t playing the expectations game ahead of this debate as vigorously as they did before the first presidential debate. Biden is knowledgeable and an experienced debater. Republicans expect he will give Ryan a tough exchange. Ryan also is considered smart, substantive and authentic. Some Democrats regard him as a better communicator than Romney. They don’t anticipate he will stumble.
Ryan has several possible weaknesses. He knows the budget to such a level of detail that he could fall into wonk-talk if he’s not careful. What works on the House floor or in an inside-the-Beltway debate won’t necessarily work with a television audience of 50 million or more. As one Republican noted, Ryan has to resist being chairman of the House Budget Committee on Thursday night.
Nerves also could be an issue. Ryan has never debated on a stage this big. He has much at stake. Beyond this election, there is the question of his future as a national Republican leader — a possible presidential candidate in 2016 if Romney loses.
Biden’s potential weaknesses are well known. One is a propensity to be windy, although he was anything but that against Palin. He has a history of verbal gaffes, but mostly when he’s unscripted or lets his guard down, which shouldn’t be the case Thursday. He could appear condescending or patronizing to his younger rival. He could be too aggressive. He also must defend Obama’s record on the economy, which the president did not do effectively last week.
Ryan said this week that he expects Biden to be forceful on Thursday to make up the ground that Obama ceded to Romney last week. Biden will attempt to force Ryan to defend what the Obama campaign considers Romney’s dishonest performance in Denver.
The vice president’s attacks probably will focus on Ryan’s budget, which Romney has embraced only in part, and he’s likely to try to make Ryan the issue as much as Romney. Ryan’s challenge will be to make an appealing case for his worldview while making clear that Romney is the head of the ticket and running on his own platform.
The next presidential debate will be held Tuesday at Hofstra University in New York, but what happens Thursday in Kentucky is likely to have a big effect on how things look by the time Obama and Romney meet again.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/big-stakes-for-biden-and-ryan-in-vp-debate/2012/10/09/b24d55de-1249-11e2-be82-c3411b7680a9_print.html
For the Obama team, Thursday will offer an opportunity to short-circuit the advances Romney has made since the first presidential debate. For the GOP, Ryan will have a chance to piggyback on Romney’s performance and solidify the gains their ticket has made in recent days.
The stakes are also higher than usual because the participants have a standing beyond their roles as running mates. They are real players, not potted plants or a sideshow to the main event.
Biden is vice president and therefore fully accountable for what has gone right and wrong on Obama’s watch. He is a central player in the administration who has not shirked from offering the president unvarnished advice. He also speaks with the credibility of someone who has been in public life for four decades, with wide experience in foreign and domestic policy.
Ryan, too, is more than just a vice presidential nominee plucked from obscurity to fill out a national ticket. The House Budget Committee chairman may have a limited public profile nationally, but he has served seven terms in Congress and, of far greater significance, his peers consider him the intellectual leader of the Republican Party for his work on the budget and the economy.
If you doubt that, recall this: Long before Romney was the GOP nominee, Obama was attacking Ryan and his fiscal blueprint, an early foreshadowing of the 2012 campaign that has come into clearer focus this fall.
Some vice presidential debates are mere entertainment relative to the overall race, enjoyable but incidental to the fundamentals of the campaign. That was certainly the case four years ago when the forum, which drew a huge audience, was all about Sarah Palin, whose candidacy had captured the imaginations of friends and foes alike.
But the outcome of that exchange — a tie or modest victory for Palin in the eyes of many pundits and a win for Biden according to the public — did nothing to shift a race that already had moved away from Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and safely toward Obama. Thursday’s debate at Centre College in Danville, Ky., could be different.
National public polls show movement toward Romney since Denver. A Pew Research Center poll released Monday highlighted a big gain for Romney. Gallup began posting a sample of likely voters from its tracking poll and Tuesday’s showed Romney leading 49 percent to 47 percent. Among registered voters, Obama was ahead 49 percent to 46 percent.
GOP enthusiasm is up, which is good news for Romney. But more evidence is needed to know how much the landscape in the battleground states has been changed by the debate. CNN released a poll of Ohio on Wednesday that showed two things: Romney has narrowed the gap there, but the president is still ahead among likely voters by 51 percent to 47 percent. Other battleground surveys are expected by week’s end, and they should give a clearer picture of the state of play.
Romney advisers say the key battlegrounds are now within the margin of error, a significant shift from two weeks ago, when Obama led in Ohio, for example, by six to 10 points, depending on the survey. They are far more bullish today than they were a few weeks ago amid Romney’s difficulties.
Obama advisers say they, too, have seen some movement toward Romney but make two points to counter what the Romney team is saying. In Ohio, for example, they say that they still believe the president holds a real lead and that they remain narrowly ahead in a number of other states.
They argue that the big margins of two weeks ago were always destined to tighten, given everything that is known about these states from past campaigns. The debates, they say, accelerated a process that was likely to happen sometime in October.
But from their research, the race has begun to settle down. Romney is not continuing to gain ground. “Romney has consolidated some of the gains he was going to get anyway,” said White House senior adviser David Plouffe. “We weren’t going to win battlegrounds by 10 points.”
The campaigns aren’t playing the expectations game ahead of this debate as vigorously as they did before the first presidential debate. Biden is knowledgeable and an experienced debater. Republicans expect he will give Ryan a tough exchange. Ryan also is considered smart, substantive and authentic. Some Democrats regard him as a better communicator than Romney. They don’t anticipate he will stumble.
Ryan has several possible weaknesses. He knows the budget to such a level of detail that he could fall into wonk-talk if he’s not careful. What works on the House floor or in an inside-the-Beltway debate won’t necessarily work with a television audience of 50 million or more. As one Republican noted, Ryan has to resist being chairman of the House Budget Committee on Thursday night.
Nerves also could be an issue. Ryan has never debated on a stage this big. He has much at stake. Beyond this election, there is the question of his future as a national Republican leader — a possible presidential candidate in 2016 if Romney loses.
Biden’s potential weaknesses are well known. One is a propensity to be windy, although he was anything but that against Palin. He has a history of verbal gaffes, but mostly when he’s unscripted or lets his guard down, which shouldn’t be the case Thursday. He could appear condescending or patronizing to his younger rival. He could be too aggressive. He also must defend Obama’s record on the economy, which the president did not do effectively last week.
Ryan said this week that he expects Biden to be forceful on Thursday to make up the ground that Obama ceded to Romney last week. Biden will attempt to force Ryan to defend what the Obama campaign considers Romney’s dishonest performance in Denver.
The vice president’s attacks probably will focus on Ryan’s budget, which Romney has embraced only in part, and he’s likely to try to make Ryan the issue as much as Romney. Ryan’s challenge will be to make an appealing case for his worldview while making clear that Romney is the head of the ticket and running on his own platform.
The next presidential debate will be held Tuesday at Hofstra University in New York, but what happens Thursday in Kentucky is likely to have a big effect on how things look by the time Obama and Romney meet again.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/big-stakes-for-biden-and-ryan-in-vp-debate/2012/10/09/b24d55de-1249-11e2-be82-c3411b7680a9_print.html
ha, ya. Ryan has some poppers and a very carefully manipulated peak. I'm pretty sure his hair doesn't move at all.
"What did you think of his little widow's peak" I really did LOL, I forgot all about it until I read your post
Eddie Munster. (Your gonna get me in trouble!) shhh!
I noticed Ryan's eye's looked like they were bugging out; I kept wanting to blink for him...... probably scared to death of Biden's chiclets (good one MrsP) jumping out to bite him.............lol
Actually, my endo says that's a sign of too much thyroid hormone, and from watching Ryan's behavior, both last night, and other times, he strikes me as a prime candidate for hyperthyroidism/Graves Disease. Reminds me of Thyroid Eye Disease.
What did you think of his little widow's peak?
Actually, my endo says that's a sign of too much thyroid hormone, and from watching Ryan's behavior, both last night, and other times, he strikes me as a prime candidate for hyperthyroidism/Graves Disease. Reminds me of Thyroid Eye Disease.
What did you think of his little widow's peak?
HeHeHe... I said before I was waiting for them to fall out on the floor! And Ryans eyeballs was so wide and you could see the whites and I thought they was gonna fall out too! LOL
HAHA!! They did look like Chicklets no?!...
I thought Biden looked like he was showing off a new set of false teeth or something.
Did anyone else watch the after debate when the families went up on stage? I really wish the cameras would have stayed on them instead of cutting away for all the spin when they did.
Those folks genuinely DO like each other, every one was hugging everyone, it was a really nice touch and I felt like America needed to see that. I hope they play the video again, it was great.
Those folks genuinely DO like each other, every one was hugging everyone, it was a really nice touch and I felt like America needed to see that. I hope they play the video again, it was great.
Biden needed to not look like a pompous as and Ryan needed to humanize himself. Neither succeeded....
If Biden would have quit laughing, he'd have done better. His laughing regarding anything about these topics, to me is an embarrassment. He could have swept the floor with Ryan like Romney did with the President if he would have, or could have acted sincere.... just a little bit more.
It was exactly what I expected.
If Biden would have quit laughing, he'd have done better. His laughing regarding anything about these topics, to me is an embarrassment. He could have swept the floor with Ryan like Romney did with the President if he would have, or could have acted sincere.... just a little bit more.
It was exactly what I expected.
Oh, and sm - love you my friend, but I do disagree on voting on same sex marriage..lol. But you knew I would!! I feel it has to be viewed as a civil rights issue, not a voter issue. However, that is a debate for another day!! Sleep tight.
How I want to go to sleep too! It's 10:30 here and an early day tomorrow. However, little man has other ideas. I put him to bed at about 7:45 and he is still bouncing around his room - I've used my "stern mommy voice" several times, to no avail. Hoping he wears himself out and falls asleep soon...I need to go to bed!
Good conversation here tonight - I learn so much when everything stays civil like this..lol. I tend to tune out when it gets nasty.
Great to have you posting here ng. Hope you stick around!!
Good conversation here tonight - I learn so much when everything stays civil like this..lol. I tend to tune out when it gets nasty.
Great to have you posting here ng. Hope you stick around!!
I wish issues like abortion and same sex marriage were 'only' decided upon by voters state to state. I know why we have the supreme court but maybe we shouldn't be able to challenge every single law with appeal after appeal. So if voters decide on an issue in a state, that's it.
but it is late and I'm begining to drift into a too many snacks state of mine.
but it is late and I'm begining to drift into a too many snacks state of mine.
Ryan is more right, IMO. I think both parties do better with candidates who are in the middle somewhere. The average American is not far right or left, they're usually somewhere in the middle, agreeing with stances on both sides. I think the average American is WAY more comfortable with a moderate candidate. The extremes are outside the comfort zone for many.
I agree completely about the social issues. No doubt where the GOP is taking it in the gut. Personally, regardless if R/R get in, I just can't see Roe v Wade getting overturned, no way. I think their biggest impacts would be in budget cuts, not actual legislative changes on something that big. I can't see it happening.
I used to be a registered Dem when I first turned 18, then a lot of my views changed as I learned more and educated myself more about govt/politiics as a whole...so I chaged and was registered Independent. I finally made the change to actually register as a Republican a few years back. The "label" didn't concern me as much as the fact that I was voting for who I wanted to.
I agree completely about the social issues. No doubt where the GOP is taking it in the gut. Personally, regardless if R/R get in, I just can't see Roe v Wade getting overturned, no way. I think their biggest impacts would be in budget cuts, not actual legislative changes on something that big. I can't see it happening.
I used to be a registered Dem when I first turned 18, then a lot of my views changed as I learned more and educated myself more about govt/politiics as a whole...so I chaged and was registered Independent. I finally made the change to actually register as a Republican a few years back. The "label" didn't concern me as much as the fact that I was voting for who I wanted to.
My hubby is ultra conservative and would be Romney all the way in the US. He also thinks the Romney economic policies would be far better for Canada then Obama's (trust me when I say the US trade/economic policies have a massive impact on us). But he also doesn't like Ryan. He would never vote Obama, but said that the Ryan addition could make him abstain from voting. It's funny because Ryan would be considered far more right then Romney wouldn't he? I guess my hubby is ultra conservative by our political standards which would perhaps be a bit more center (our politicians really don't get into the social issues like yours do) and I think that is what is throwing him with Ryan as well.
I have heard interesting comments here and there from Republicans on the news, etc. Some of them have said that if the Republican Party sort of dropped it's stance on a lot of these social issues, it's likely more Independents would go their way. Do you think that's true? I have to say on economic issues, I like bits and pieces from both parties, and it's primarily the social issues that would steer me away, so it makes me wonder if others aren't feeling the same way.
I have heard interesting comments here and there from Republicans on the news, etc. Some of them have said that if the Republican Party sort of dropped it's stance on a lot of these social issues, it's likely more Independents would go their way. Do you think that's true? I have to say on economic issues, I like bits and pieces from both parties, and it's primarily the social issues that would steer me away, so it makes me wonder if others aren't feeling the same way.
I saw that too, SM.
Obama has the pressure on him for next week, I actually feel for him. The debates are important, but certainly don't always end up being too reflective.
I thought the questions at the end were great...about if they are ever embarassed about things said during campaigns, or the ads, and about each of them as a PERSON. I wish both of them would have answered a bit more precisely, rather than just repeat their campaign points. I know that's how it goes, but I would have liked to hear real answers there.
Obama has the pressure on him for next week, I actually feel for him. The debates are important, but certainly don't always end up being too reflective.
I thought the questions at the end were great...about if they are ever embarassed about things said during campaigns, or the ads, and about each of them as a PERSON. I wish both of them would have answered a bit more precisely, rather than just repeat their campaign points. I know that's how it goes, but I would have liked to hear real answers there.
I hear ya, Amanda. I understand what you're saying about the war issue. Different in our thinking, which is okay. I felt Biden actually was a bit more wishy washy about the bomb timeline. Like, he was very dismissive, like, "Oh come on, it just ISN'T that way!" and then made the comment that could insinuate that all they need is something to put the materials in...I was like HUH? That unnerved me.
I agree that overall, I think Ryan hurts the Romney ticket to an extent. My hubby said tonight there should be seperate electiions, we shouldn't have to pick a "team". Interesting thought.
I agree that overall, I think Ryan hurts the Romney ticket to an extent. My hubby said tonight there should be seperate electiions, we shouldn't have to pick a "team". Interesting thought.
Ha. His eye balls have too much white. LOL
Well, they just talked about the unndecided voter on CNN. Bad news for some . . . Ryan held his own. He had more high moments reported than Biden and fewer low moments than Biden. And when they did votes gained from undecided for Obama and votes for Romney--- it was equal.
Really, I didn't expect it to be that good of a response. I'm pleased for the sake of the campaign.
Well, they just talked about the unndecided voter on CNN. Bad news for some . . . Ryan held his own. He had more high moments reported than Biden and fewer low moments than Biden. And when they did votes gained from undecided for Obama and votes for Romney--- it was equal.
Really, I didn't expect it to be that good of a response. I'm pleased for the sake of the campaign.
And I'm with OH - I still could never bring myself to vote for someone (even though he is only second in command) that would try to make abortion illegal, and advocates against equality in marriage. I just could not. Those issues are too big a deal to me. Again, with Romney, I don't see the hard stance on them, but I do with Ryan.
I was in your head! I planted a few repub views in there. ;0)
Thanks for the welcome.
Thanks for the welcome.
I understand what your saying. And thanks for clarifying the Libya comments, it did leave me perplexed. Actually, the whole issue has my head spinning - not sure what to think there.
The foreign policy issues are really tough to call. I do see it a bit differently and feel Biden did better - he seemed more focused on the facts then speculation. And I trusted him when he said that Iran is still a long ways away from an actual bomb (and I can tell you my friend, that is something I truly do lose sleep over - I don't doubt for a milisecond that the nutjob running that country would use it if he had it). I did like the fact that both sides do seem to agree Iran is going to have to be dealt with. I just felt the democratic approach more suites my personal belief system I guess (not saying your a war advocate, I know that is not at all what you mean).
It was interesting. Funny - Romney is ok by me, or at least was until that 47% comment (strangely enough, I think I liked him better in the early days then even the Republicans in this group did..lol). I really can't get past that 47% thing for whatever reason. Now, granted, I do tend to be left leaning, but have voted conservative in the past, so I guess I'm probably somewhere in the middle. But for me, Ryan being on that ticket really seals the deal - it would push me to the left (or nudge me I guess as I do relate better to them) if I could vote. Just something about him I guess. Too extreme for me maybe? I do find Romney to be more moderate by a long shot then Ryan, and I like that.
The foreign policy issues are really tough to call. I do see it a bit differently and feel Biden did better - he seemed more focused on the facts then speculation. And I trusted him when he said that Iran is still a long ways away from an actual bomb (and I can tell you my friend, that is something I truly do lose sleep over - I don't doubt for a milisecond that the nutjob running that country would use it if he had it). I did like the fact that both sides do seem to agree Iran is going to have to be dealt with. I just felt the democratic approach more suites my personal belief system I guess (not saying your a war advocate, I know that is not at all what you mean).
It was interesting. Funny - Romney is ok by me, or at least was until that 47% comment (strangely enough, I think I liked him better in the early days then even the Republicans in this group did..lol). I really can't get past that 47% thing for whatever reason. Now, granted, I do tend to be left leaning, but have voted conservative in the past, so I guess I'm probably somewhere in the middle. But for me, Ryan being on that ticket really seals the deal - it would push me to the left (or nudge me I guess as I do relate better to them) if I could vote. Just something about him I guess. Too extreme for me maybe? I do find Romney to be more moderate by a long shot then Ryan, and I like that.
" Mrs. P....I was wondering what was going to happen if he ran out of water!!!"
ROTFL...OMG it's like you were in my head!..LOL..BTW WELCOME TO CE!
ROTFL...OMG it's like you were in my head!..LOL..BTW WELCOME TO CE!
LOL at OH. The little piece of hair sticking up on Ryan's head (in the front, on purpose) annoyed me. And Biden's teeth annoyed me.
LOL
Not nit picking or anything.
LOL
Not nit picking or anything.
I heard them on the radio, and I don't think Ryan did well on foreign policy and I really have a hard time with anyone wanting to force their beliefs on others.
Don't believe in abortion ? Then don't have one and work harder for accessible birth control so there is less need for abortions.
This is kind of weird, and off topic, but Ryan's whites showing around his eyeballs bother's me. Not sure why that is.
Don't believe in abortion ? Then don't have one and work harder for accessible birth control so there is less need for abortions.
This is kind of weird, and off topic, but Ryan's whites showing around his eyeballs bother's me. Not sure why that is.
No cocktails either. If you guys all did the drinking game you were planning, it's a wonder you could even SEE your TVs!
OH! I know something that bothered me...Biden's constantly referring to Ryan as "my friend here", that was on my nerves. BOTH of them kept opening their statements with "LOOK...." That was on my nerves too.
:0)
OH! I know something that bothered me...Biden's constantly referring to Ryan as "my friend here", that was on my nerves. BOTH of them kept opening their statements with "LOOK...." That was on my nerves too.
:0)
You must join this user group in order to participate in this discussion.
You are reading content posted in the Current Events . . . Group
A list of national and international resources and hotlines to help connect you to needed health and medical services.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Condoms are the most effective way to prevent HIV and STDs.
PrEP is used by people with high risk to prevent HIV infection.
