Aa
Democratic senators want ban on assault weapons
http://news.yahoo.com/democratic-senators-want-ban-assault-weapons-193340839--politics.html
WASHINGTON (AP) — Democratic lawmakers and independent Sen. Joe Lieberman said Sunday that military-style assault weapons should be banned and that a national commission should be established to examine mass shootings in the United States.
The proposals were among the first to come from Congress in the wake of Friday's school shooting in Newtown, Conn. Gun rights activists remained largely quiet on the issue, all but one declining to appear on the Sunday talk shows. Meanwhile, Democrats vowed action and said it was time to hear from voters — not gun lobbyists — on how to prevent the next shooting.
The time for "saying that we can't talk about the policy implications of tragedies like this is over," said Rep. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., who won a Senate seat in the November elections.
President Barack Obama and Senate Democrats haven't pushed for new gun controls since rising to power in the 2008 national elections. Outspoken advocates for stricter laws, including Sen. Dianne Feinstein, say that's because of the powerful sway of the National Rifle Association.
But advocates also say the latest shooting is a tipping point that could change the dynamic of the debate dramatically. Feinstein, D-Calif., said she will propose legislation next year that would ban big clips, drums and strips of more than 10 bullets.
"It can be done," she said Sunday of reviving the 10-year ban that expired in 2004.
WASHINGTON (AP) — Democratic lawmakers and independent Sen. Joe Lieberman said Sunday that military-style assault weapons should be banned and that a national commission should be established to examine mass shootings in the United States.
The proposals were among the first to come from Congress in the wake of Friday's school shooting in Newtown, Conn. Gun rights activists remained largely quiet on the issue, all but one declining to appear on the Sunday talk shows. Meanwhile, Democrats vowed action and said it was time to hear from voters — not gun lobbyists — on how to prevent the next shooting.
The time for "saying that we can't talk about the policy implications of tragedies like this is over," said Rep. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., who won a Senate seat in the November elections.
President Barack Obama and Senate Democrats haven't pushed for new gun controls since rising to power in the 2008 national elections. Outspoken advocates for stricter laws, including Sen. Dianne Feinstein, say that's because of the powerful sway of the National Rifle Association.
But advocates also say the latest shooting is a tipping point that could change the dynamic of the debate dramatically. Feinstein, D-Calif., said she will propose legislation next year that would ban big clips, drums and strips of more than 10 bullets.
"It can be done," she said Sunday of reviving the 10-year ban that expired in 2004.
Ban the manufacture, sale & distribution of auto-weapons in the USA (military gets a pass).
Cull existing auto-weapons, by asking people to give them up voluntarily.
Those that have auto-weapons registered and DON'T give them up, fine them, tax them, charge them, jail them (You'll need to amend the 2nd amendment in some sneaky way, so that the wording explicitly bans auto-weapons).
That'll take between 25-50% of auto-weapons out of circulation.
If THAT doesn't at least put a small dent in the problem, I don't know what will.
As SM keeps saying... "If even ONE incident is stopped, it's well worth the effort",.
What to do about the other 50-75% that you DON'T catch... well, that's the $64,000 question.
Cull existing auto-weapons, by asking people to give them up voluntarily.
Those that have auto-weapons registered and DON'T give them up, fine them, tax them, charge them, jail them (You'll need to amend the 2nd amendment in some sneaky way, so that the wording explicitly bans auto-weapons).
That'll take between 25-50% of auto-weapons out of circulation.
If THAT doesn't at least put a small dent in the problem, I don't know what will.
As SM keeps saying... "If even ONE incident is stopped, it's well worth the effort",.
What to do about the other 50-75% that you DON'T catch... well, that's the $64,000 question.
Thanks but no thanks.
My husband tried to teach me years ago, and I burst into tears.
Guns are something he grew up with and something I never, ever want anything to do with. Just not my thing.
I agree that it takes skill to hit a moving target which is why it's pathetic how easily people can buy guns without having to prove any ability to operate them.
And conversely, I saw in Guatemala, men trimming the grass out of cracks in the sidewalk, pruning trees, and cutting the lawn, with machetes. That took practice and skill too.
My husband tried to teach me years ago, and I burst into tears.
Guns are something he grew up with and something I never, ever want anything to do with. Just not my thing.
I agree that it takes skill to hit a moving target which is why it's pathetic how easily people can buy guns without having to prove any ability to operate them.
And conversely, I saw in Guatemala, men trimming the grass out of cracks in the sidewalk, pruning trees, and cutting the lawn, with machetes. That took practice and skill too.
I'd love to have you come out for a day at the range.
And you've missed my point completely. It takes no skill to operate a machete. I would bet that it would take you a good long time to load my gun properly, take the safety off, line up a good bead and hit a target... especially a moving target.
It takes a lot of training to hit moving targets.
It takes a lot of training to hit moving targets.
I don't consider this heated debate. I for one am not really at odds against anyone on this topic.
It is so difficult and sometimes we get a little edgy or silly just to relieve the pain of it, or at least I do.
Strangely I have increased respect for everyone in his ongoing conversation.
Though a friend recently gave me a quote which I will paraphrase if memory serves "He that sees both sides sees nothing."
I feel like that sometimes, on this forum too, lol.
It is so difficult and sometimes we get a little edgy or silly just to relieve the pain of it, or at least I do.
Strangely I have increased respect for everyone in his ongoing conversation.
Though a friend recently gave me a quote which I will paraphrase if memory serves "He that sees both sides sees nothing."
I feel like that sometimes, on this forum too, lol.
Right Brice, you made my point, a skilled knife fighter, how much skill does it take to pull the trigger on an automatic ?
Please understand, I like to throw out ideas that come to me, this is after-all a place for discussion.
My thoughts are often just that, my thoughts nothing more or less
.
Please understand, I like to throw out ideas that come to me, this is after-all a place for discussion.
My thoughts are often just that, my thoughts nothing more or less
.
Oh, dear G-d, guess I could have skipped that one.
A coroner's finding that all five people killed in Fero's Bar and Grill in October were stabbed helps define the killer or killers, authorities say.
"From the offender's point of view, it takes a different kind of pathology to kill someone up close and personal," said Gregg McCrary, a former FBI profiler from Virginia. "It's different than killing someone with a gun from a distance. The victim is pleading, crying, coughing, yelling. It's bloody. It's awful."
On Oct. 17, 2012, Daria M. Pohl, 22; Kellene Fallon, 45; Young Suk Fero, 63; Ross Richter, 29; and Tereasa Beesley, 45, were fatally stabbed inside the bar at 351 S. Colorado Blvd., according to a coroner's report.
Nobody killed with a gun in this one but they did kill everyone in the bar before they robbed it
"From the offender's point of view, it takes a different kind of pathology to kill someone up close and personal," said Gregg McCrary, a former FBI profiler from Virginia. "It's different than killing someone with a gun from a distance. The victim is pleading, crying, coughing, yelling. It's bloody. It's awful."
On Oct. 17, 2012, Daria M. Pohl, 22; Kellene Fallon, 45; Young Suk Fero, 63; Ross Richter, 29; and Tereasa Beesley, 45, were fatally stabbed inside the bar at 351 S. Colorado Blvd., according to a coroner's report.
Nobody killed with a gun in this one but they did kill everyone in the bar before they robbed it
"How far do you think that guy would have gotten in the theater with a machete?" Good question... I'm not an authority on knife fights but a skilled knife fighter can cover a lot of ground and inflict a lot of damage in not much more and 2 seconds.
But, if a guy where to sit and start hacking at skulls? Who knows.... They won't be any less dead.
And to rebut your comment about bad neighborhoods.... these little kids weren't in a bad neighborhood and were also in a "gun free zone". You never know when a nut is going to pop off. (I don't carry all of the time.)
And fear.... this isn't about fear.
But, if a guy where to sit and start hacking at skulls? Who knows.... They won't be any less dead.
And to rebut your comment about bad neighborhoods.... these little kids weren't in a bad neighborhood and were also in a "gun free zone". You never know when a nut is going to pop off. (I don't carry all of the time.)
And fear.... this isn't about fear.
I was quoting John Lennon, from his " Imagine" song.
"Imagine all the people living life in peace"
I can dream.
I know it's not gonna happen, but I can admire the sentiment.
But, I'm realistic and I'm tough, and you know what ?
I live in one of the most violent cities in the US and I am not afraid.
I don't need a gun nor do I want one to feel safe. And I walk all over the place. I carry my sense of calm and peace with me.
I refuse to live in fear~ what is there to fear anyway ? I already faced death and came out on the other side, stronger and clearer than before.
What I use as my shield is awareness. Simple.
( Awareness, also means I don't put myself in dangerous positions, I don't go out in bad neighborhoods at night, and I do chain, yes, chain my car so those punks out there don't steal it again. Since my car got stolen now, all I have to do to feel happy is look and see it's still there !)
* * *
Back to the battle about guns. Sure you can do harm with machetes, sticks stones, knives, etc but you have to get up close and personal.
There is something about being able to stand back with a gun and go ' pop, pop, pop' that makes it easier, at least easier for some soft American suburban kid like the pathetic schmuck who did this horrible thing.
How far do you think that guy in the theater would have gotten with a machete?
"Imagine all the people living life in peace"
I can dream.
I know it's not gonna happen, but I can admire the sentiment.
But, I'm realistic and I'm tough, and you know what ?
I live in one of the most violent cities in the US and I am not afraid.
I don't need a gun nor do I want one to feel safe. And I walk all over the place. I carry my sense of calm and peace with me.
I refuse to live in fear~ what is there to fear anyway ? I already faced death and came out on the other side, stronger and clearer than before.
What I use as my shield is awareness. Simple.
( Awareness, also means I don't put myself in dangerous positions, I don't go out in bad neighborhoods at night, and I do chain, yes, chain my car so those punks out there don't steal it again. Since my car got stolen now, all I have to do to feel happy is look and see it's still there !)
* * *
Back to the battle about guns. Sure you can do harm with machetes, sticks stones, knives, etc but you have to get up close and personal.
There is something about being able to stand back with a gun and go ' pop, pop, pop' that makes it easier, at least easier for some soft American suburban kid like the pathetic schmuck who did this horrible thing.
How far do you think that guy in the theater would have gotten with a machete?
LOL.
Hey, 49ers beat your boys in the playoffs, no?
Caalyyfornia RULES!!
Hey, 49ers beat your boys in the playoffs, no?
Caalyyfornia RULES!!
I would like to see what the comparison is to deaths caused by assault weapons in the US versus machetes in Africa. And I will leave OH alone for now because if she feels safer walking around with a dozen roses than I do with a 15 round clip, who am I to judge. Plus Monday Night Football is on and you know how us Rednecks and our Football is.
EWW. Brice.
Having a bullet dance around in my body tearing up the tissue sounds a lot worse. It may look better on the outside, but I am not sure it feels any better.
Having a bullet dance around in my body tearing up the tissue sounds a lot worse. It may look better on the outside, but I am not sure it feels any better.
"Slower, less effective way to kill".... and imagine if you are the one getting hacked up. Lop off a few fingers.... then a few on the other hand.... then the right hand, then the left hand, then hack into one of those forearms, now the other.... (are we having fun yet?)
Not saying it wouldn't kill a lot of people, but it would be a slower,less effective way to kill the masses than an automatic weapon.
And you know it.
Leave OH alone-dreaming is the first step to making a shift in one's consciousness. All changes start with dreams and small steps.
Don't worry Glass, no one is going to take your guns away. I wish my father had taught me as you did your daughters. I have no doubt they will be much safer in this world as a result.
Unfortunately, not everyone is like you.
And you know it.
Leave OH alone-dreaming is the first step to making a shift in one's consciousness. All changes start with dreams and small steps.
Don't worry Glass, no one is going to take your guns away. I wish my father had taught me as you did your daughters. I have no doubt they will be much safer in this world as a result.
Unfortunately, not everyone is like you.
." You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. . . "
John Lennon. .
Or maybe we can just by the World A Coke
John Lennon. .
Or maybe we can just by the World A Coke
"True, a machete could do a lot of damage, but it is unlikely it would kill as many people as fast as an automatic assault weapon. "
Africa?
Africa?
We haven't won a war in over 60 years.
If it were up to me, all the military would come home and be put to work rebuilding our country's infrastructure, and all automatic assault rifles would turn into dust.
If it were up to me, all the military would come home and be put to work rebuilding our country's infrastructure, and all automatic assault rifles would turn into dust.
Not on the way to work. On the way home from work at about 0300.
Have you ever been attacked while on the way to work?
continued: Sorry about that... Had to speak to one of my clients....
I can't rely on the police to come save me if something were to happen. They are miles and miles away and mostly not in cell phone service.
I do have good "people" skills and have too many time to count, stopped someone from doing something that they would regret on a lot of levels. I also have some really sound hand to hand skills that have saved my brownie a few times as well. But when you've exercised all of those options, and the assault continues.... what am I supposed to do? Sit there and be taken advantage of?
Would you sit and allow yourself to be taken advantage of? I don't know you too well, but I'd bet you'd have a little fight in you.
Criminals are never going to have a problem getting a gun. They don't wait in lines to fill out paperwork, they don't go to the police stations to have a gun registered....
Gun ownership is not for everyone, but I'll be damned if someone elses screw up should affect me and my rights.
I can't rely on the police to come save me if something were to happen. They are miles and miles away and mostly not in cell phone service.
I do have good "people" skills and have too many time to count, stopped someone from doing something that they would regret on a lot of levels. I also have some really sound hand to hand skills that have saved my brownie a few times as well. But when you've exercised all of those options, and the assault continues.... what am I supposed to do? Sit there and be taken advantage of?
Would you sit and allow yourself to be taken advantage of? I don't know you too well, but I'd bet you'd have a little fight in you.
Criminals are never going to have a problem getting a gun. They don't wait in lines to fill out paperwork, they don't go to the police stations to have a gun registered....
Gun ownership is not for everyone, but I'll be damned if someone elses screw up should affect me and my rights.
I know what you're getting at. My point is this.... my carry gun carries 15 in the magazine and one in the chamber. By the standards being kicked around here, my gun should be confiscated or I should surrender the thing.
Here's the deal. I live 42 miles from where I work. I often am traveling when there is nobody on the road. Where I live, there is not police department or sheriff's department right next door. They are south of my home by another 25 miles.
I carry this particular gun because A. I shoot it really well. B. If I were to be in some kind of trouble in the middle of nowhere (I forgot to mention that there is no cellphone service for about 30 miles of the 42 mile commute, so calling the cops and holding hope that the bad guy doesn't want to kill me until the cops show up) and were to have to use my gun.... I potentially have enough ammunition, but that too would count on how many potential assailants there were.
Here's the deal. I live 42 miles from where I work. I often am traveling when there is nobody on the road. Where I live, there is not police department or sheriff's department right next door. They are south of my home by another 25 miles.
I carry this particular gun because A. I shoot it really well. B. If I were to be in some kind of trouble in the middle of nowhere (I forgot to mention that there is no cellphone service for about 30 miles of the 42 mile commute, so calling the cops and holding hope that the bad guy doesn't want to kill me until the cops show up) and were to have to use my gun.... I potentially have enough ammunition, but that too would count on how many potential assailants there were.
I have been following this discussion with great interest.
I have never been against guns, in general but have had real reservations about automatic assault weapons like the one the killer used.
I understand Brices point of view and if everyone were like Brice and Glass, I would be less concerned...but sadly there are too many disturbed people in the world to trust they won't get hold of a weapon like that.
True, a machete could do a lot of damage, but it is unlikely it would kill as many people as fast as an automatic assault weapon.
Sad that we even have to consider such things, but it is one area that maybe we can make a small difference in, as well as addressing other underlying causes for mass murder.
I have never been against guns, in general but have had real reservations about automatic assault weapons like the one the killer used.
I understand Brices point of view and if everyone were like Brice and Glass, I would be less concerned...but sadly there are too many disturbed people in the world to trust they won't get hold of a weapon like that.
True, a machete could do a lot of damage, but it is unlikely it would kill as many people as fast as an automatic assault weapon.
Sad that we even have to consider such things, but it is one area that maybe we can make a small difference in, as well as addressing other underlying causes for mass murder.
Just saying, if she hadn't collected the assault rifle he used, chances are there would have been less killed. That gun fires rounds so very quickly--- that there would have probably been fewer killed had he not had access to his mom's 'collection'.
I guess what I'm balking at as I've never been anti gun is that there is just an absolute refusal to concede that these guns aren't really necessary for domestic purposes for the average citizen. So very protective of the guns and not wanting to compromise.
I grew up with an avid gunmen. I've never had a problem really. But am just surprised but the outright support of people to have assault type weapons no matter what. Is the fear that if they ban these that they'll ban other types of guns?
I guess what I'm balking at as I've never been anti gun is that there is just an absolute refusal to concede that these guns aren't really necessary for domestic purposes for the average citizen. So very protective of the guns and not wanting to compromise.
I grew up with an avid gunmen. I've never had a problem really. But am just surprised but the outright support of people to have assault type weapons no matter what. Is the fear that if they ban these that they'll ban other types of guns?
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