Despite the deaths of workers , we still support their masters...

http://news.yahoo.com/shoppers-habits-not-changed-garment-plant-fire-050552713--finance.html

This is very sad. I have to say as repellent as the crass materialism of our country is to me, I do understand how ppl here do not consider the source of their purchases.
When my kids were young I told them about the child labor in other countries that produced a lot of their favorite things. My son Akiva (He now lives in Jerusalem) was horrified and when I wanted to buy him a soccer ball, he refused telling me that it came from one of the counties where the children were basically enslaved. He and his sibs held fast for about a year. I cannot tell you how hard that was checking labels on everything. I cannot say everyone still lives by that now. I do but it is easy-I have no money to buy anything LOL!!! It is like dieting-easy if you can't buy food.
Anyway, back to the factory issues, if enough ppl did stand up and say I will not buy from companies that profit on the backs of desperately poor ppl who work in abhorrent conditions, they might actually do something to support their workers.
It is usually when *we* experience the horrors that we are moved to act.
Very sad

[orphanedhawk]

Most people are sheep. If they see others doing it, they will follow.

It takes conscious thought more than  courage to not follow the flock.

[teko]

I heard they locked the gates so the workers could not get out, AFTER the fire started! I also understand there has been 3 arrests made as a result of this information. I say hang em in the street for all to poke and prod and torture. :)

[teko]

I also heard they pay them 18 cents an hour which is equivelent to 55 cents an hour in our country.

[Londres70]

You would be totally shocked by what all is bought that was made by children and adults getting paid peanuts (i.e. cents/day).  

Such a disgrace.

[orphanedhawk]

Very true.

[nursegirl6572]

He and his sibs held fast for about a year

That's very sweet!!!  It's very hard for kids to sacrifice stuff like that, especially based on a principle that is sometimes difficult to understand.

That's awesome.

The problem with these kinds of things, is it's hard to "police' all the products, where they're coming from, and ensuring nothing unacceptable is going on.

It's the job of the US companies that are using overseas labor to ensure that conditions are safe and fair.  If they're not, they should take their business elsewhere, or imform the American people, or both.

It's very hard for us to understand how something like this could happen, but the reality is, different cultures.  Sadly, thesde workers would go right back.  They depend on the income...they put their kids to work because they have to.

Very sad, but unfortunately not something I think we're going to change (outside of our own participation).

[orphanedhawk]

The Bangladeshi government has declared a period of national mourning for more than 120 garment workers who died in a fire at a factory that supplied U.S. retail giant Wal-Mart, among others.
Kalpona Akter, who has visited the factory and took pictures of the charred clothing labels she found there — including the Wal-Mart brand, Faded Glory. She started work in garment factories when she was 12 years old. Now she campaigns for better wages, recognition of the right to organize, and higher safety standards. We are also joined by Scott Nova, executive director of the Worker Rights Consortium, which investigates working conditions in factories around the world. In comparison to the 1911 Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire in New York City, Nova says, “It really is an extraordinary achievement, in an ironic sense, that the U.S. apparel industry has managed to replicate early 20th century conditions that were so brutal and cruel to workers now again here in 2012 in factories in places like Bangladesh. It is a shameful record for the U.S. apparel industry … And hopefully this horror will finally galvanize a global push for genuine reform of the labor practices of the big brands and retailers. Akter speaks directly to shoppers, saying, “Consumers can play a big role because they are the most powerful player in the supply chain.”

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/11/27/bangladeshi_labor_activist_finds_burned_clothes

[Londres70]

It really ISN'T that hard to find out where the items you are purchasing are coming from.  You just need to research the situation if you want to change these situations.

I am NOT surprised that Walmart labels were found at the site....not at all.

Although situations like the "1911 Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire in New York City" aren't occurring on US soil anymore, they are STILL occurring in third world countries where the US is having their products made and shipped back to the US.    

[brice1967]

It's not quite as easy as you're making it up to be.  Take something like a vehicle, for instance.  It might be a Ford, Chevy, or Dodge (you'd assume you're buying American), but when you get to looking at the smaller things within the vehicle.... nuts, bolts, screws, carpeting, headliners, upholstery, clips, hoses, electronic panels, radio/stereos, lights, light covers, trim, rims, tires.... the story starts to get convoluted.  You don't know who is farming what off to whom and you've got no idea where the raw products came from before they were shaped/molded into whatever it is they look like today.

There's too much that goes into things.... computers is another thing to look into.  

[Londres70]

"It's very hard for us to understand how something like this could happen, but the reality is, different cultures."........NG

I am not sure how you think this is very hard to understand how something like this could happen.  Why do you think ALOT of work is getting sent to third world countries to have these people do it by Americans?  Greedy people perpetuate this.  

There was a time this happened in America/the US too UNTIL people took a stand and ended this in the US.  

"It's the job of the US companies that are using overseas labor to ensure that conditions are safe and fair.  If they're not, they should take their business elsewhere, or imform the American people, or both."......NG   Well, dear......it is up to the CONSUMERS to DEMAND these companies involved that they start practicing FAIR trade that is NOT involved using people as nothing more than slaves.  It is up to the CONSUMERS to demand more info about where these products are being made and who is making these products.  Do you REALLY think that all these companies involved are going to come forward on their own and tell you the UGLY side?

[teko]

Points well made. I agree wholeheartedly. And it is UGLY

[specialmom]

Are the companies ugly or the American people for demanding to pay as little as possible for things?

[Londres70]

As far as autos are concerned, I really don't know ANY "American" auto that has ALL AMERICAN MADE parts.

In Europe, it IS NOT difficult to find out where "this and that" is being made because EUROPEANS demand that and so should Americans if it is that "difficult."   That's MY point.  

[brice1967]

And it's a fine point.  So every piece of everything you purchase has a label on it?  That is an incredible amount of reading.....

[brice1967]

I'm sitting here right now looking at a box of screws.  "Made in America" is right on the label.... it lacks information pertaining to where the raw materials came from.  I guess its safe to assume that the raw materials came from America, but China, India, Japan, and other countries import steel here.

[Londres70]

Companies involved don't want the consumers to know the "ugly" side or truth of the matter and the comsumer is happy with getting "this and that."  

Then, people read these articles about these unfortunate situations, say "Oh, how sad.  Somebody should do something about that," keep turning the page of the newpaper or click to another article on the computer and CONTINUE to make purchases.

This article is to make people aware of the situation and to let people know that the power is in the comsumer's hands to change this.

[Londres70]

It's about if these things were made WITHOUT using people as slaves.    

If you are worried about if everything you buy is "American made" than that's another topic.  

I am not sure what the heck you are trying to argue here.  

Well.....you know TWO American store already involved in this, so START there.  

You have time to ARGUE with me, a stranger over the internet, and no time to investigate where exactly your purchases are coming from or who is making them.....interesting.  

BTW:  That's why I wouldn't buy an American auto.

[Londres70]

Absolutely..... your analogy (people/sheep).  Sounds about right.

[brice1967]

I don't expect you to get this.  I thought I made it abundantly clear when I said that I doubted you know where every piece of everything you purchase is from.  What can be more clear?

What you are telling me (or at least what I got from what you said above) is that you know exactly where everything you get comes from... is that correct?

That would mean that every screw, nut, bolt of everything you buy is clearly labeled?  I don't think so.

My reference to "American Made" is directly and totally relevant to the conversation.... You said you knew where everything you purchase comes from.  I have purchased American vehicles before, as they were touted "American Made".  I got to replace head light trim and the original part says, "Made in Mexico".  How can you label something "Made in America", "Made in France" when the smaller parts of the big purchase are made in a foreign country?

[rivll]

When I was checking it for my kids it was in the nineties and either I wasn't as familiar with researching the sources of products or there was less information about it then.
I remember that I avoided things made in Pakistan specifically and a couple of major stores that supported these manufacturers.
There was an argument made to me at that time that if we don't support these manufacturers then the families these children support would starve. I understand that point of view, but it is too simple and I think it is simply a rationalization for getting away with consumerism at the expense of the less fortunate.
I don't do it anymore because I really do not buy anything new, so I am off the hook, but I think it would be tough to research every product source.
Unless there is a list somewhere?

[brice1967]

But think of the length of that list?  It would encompass absolutely everything, bought...sold...and traded.  

Something as simple as eye glasses:
Where were the screws on the arms produced?
Where were the raw minerals for those screws produced, and by whom?
Where were the lenses made?
Where were the raw materials for the lenses produced, and by whom?
Where does the material for the coating on the arms that go behind your ears come from?  Who produced that and who applied them to the arms?

Something you mentioned, I believe was a soccer ball.
Where was the rubber liner made?
Where did that material come from"
Who produced it?
Where did the leather come from?
Who tanned it and what chemicals were used?
Who sewed the leather covering together?
What kind of thread was used and where did it come from?
Who made the thread?
What kind of needle was used?
Where was it produced and who mined the minerals and where did they come from?

See what I am getting at?  We are talking about glasses and a soccer ball.  There is a lot more to a product than the packaging and the label.  Some things are outright labeled... but I'd suggest very few.  

[Londres70]

"I don't expect you to get this."  Your statement

Please DON'T respond to me anymore.  Thank you.  I don't care for insults.  I am not an idiot.  

ONCE AGAIN......I live in Europe and there are PRODUCTS that have a SPECIFIC TAG stating the product was NOT producted or made by people or children working in these horrific working situations.  EUROPEANS are very conscious of this.  YOU......live in AMERICA and it is different, however, you have the power to CHANGE this if you CARE ABOUT THIS OR WANT TO.  This is NOT impossible to do.  

YOU know TWO AMERICAN stores involved in this situation already, so take that info as a START.

DON'T RESPOND TO ME DIRECTLY ANYMORE AS YOUR COMMENTS ARE BECOMING TOTALLY INSULTING.  I don't like wasting my time on silly arguments.  

[Londres70]

BTW:  I NEVER addressed you in the FIRST place; I was responding to SOMEONE else not you.  

[brice1967]

Whatever lady...

[brice1967]

I would love to see these "specific tags".  They'd be the length of an arm in order to address every part of every product.  And your posts are insulting to me.  You say you weren't addressing me, but after I brought up American automobiles as a reference to the amount of parts any certain product would potentially have, you said something along the lines of "I'd never own an American car."  Kind of snotty, really.  

[specialmom]

I think I understand what you are saying Brice.  It is difficult to really know if everything is made specifically as it presents itself in America.  

Here is the problem I have.  Wal Mart sells these really nice looking, durable atheletic pants for 7.  Other places sell these name brands that cost like 25 to 40 bucks and I swear, after two times of wear from my rough and tumble boys, they have holes in the knees.  I'm on a pretty strict budget and those 7 buck, good looking pants that are more durable are VERY attractive to me.  Am I a bad person for wanting those 7 dollar athletic pants?  Can I say that while it is unfortunate that people in America lose jobs to overseas and that those overseas do not always have the best of work conditions---  that places like WalMart also provide much needed income to impoverished areas in the world?  

I'm not heartless but I think that we all fall victem to trying to make what we have work and go as far as we can.  Wal Mart does provide some quality items at a good price and they employ many Americans here in their stores and warehouses and one can argue that the provide income to people who need it around the world.  

[nursegirl6572]

I'm not heartless but I think that we all fall victem to trying to make what we have work and go as far as we can.  Wal Mart does provide some quality items at a good price and they employ many Americans here in their stores and warehouses and one can argue that the provide income to people who need it around the world.  

Exactly, sm!  There are two sides to that story.  And, yes, who wants to throw their money away, and pay 3, if not 4 or 5 times more on the exact same item?  If I were a billionaire, maybe I could spend more out of principle.

Which is why I said from the beginning, that it's the companies that need to keep tabs on where their product is being made, and the conditions there.  

I won't bore everyone with the story I've told countless times about my hubby's friend who quicklly learned that "made in America" wasn't an attainable or feasible possibility for him.  I'm sure that doesn't hold true in every situation, but I bet it happens a lot more than we would think.  It's not as cut and dry as people think it is.

American companies need to be more competitive...need to produce more here...need more incentive to work with people who want products made.  

WalMart is a good example of a company who has gotten a bad reputation for their products, for how they treat their employees, etc.  But, not all the stories are bad ones.  WalMart has employed I would assume millions of Americans and they're so successful because they DO offer a lot of the same items as other stores, for MUCH less.  In these rough times, what is one to do?  I wish I had the luxury of choosing to spend 4 times as much on a product out of principle...but I just don't.  

I don't shop solely at Wal Mart, but I do shop there when I can stomach the crowds.  I don't judge the person who shops there all the time...that's their choice.  Also, you can bet your bottom dollar that many of the items you'd find in a Mom and Pop store are coming from the same places as the items in WalMart.  Truth is, it IS impossible to know where every part of every item originates from.  And even if a tag states an item is made in China, unless one chooses to not purchase items made in certain countries all together..there's no way of knowing the conditions in each factory.

That doesn't make me greedy, or heartless.  It makes me a smart shopper...taking into consideration what's best for my own household.  That's all I can really be accountable for.  

[Londres70]

Of course this is all about choices and my choice is that I don't shop from places who use children and adults in this manner.  I think this article is trying to enlighten people about this situation that exists.

You may not be "heartless and greedy" but this situation is perpetuated by greedy and hearless people, but that's more on the part of the businesses using these people in this horrid manner.  

I understand what you are saying SM.  Who doesn't want affordable priced clothing, food, etc.?  I don't want to buy a "deal" at the expense of child labor and/or people being paid almost nothing to make the item or to pick the vegetable, etc.  

There is NO problem with things being purchased made in other countries....we NEED trade.  Trade is IMPORTANT.  There are some things I purchase that aren't made in France because I am looking for top quality, however, I do research before I make the purchase.  Hey, if my thread came from China and my buttons came from Poland......who cares so long as the workers weren't treated rotten.  

To Add:  These situations are COMMON in the textile and food industry, NOT the auto industry.  

There is NO worldwide organization that can "police" this, so these articles are good "public" announcement.  

http://www.fairtrade.net/overview-usa.html

http://www.unctad.info/en/Sustainability-Claims-Portal/Discussion-Forum/Fair-Trade/Web-links/

This label means the business DOESN'T support these horrific working conditions and that their workers were treated fairly in regards to work conditions and pay.

If this isn't important to you and you can't be bothered, then so be it.  Don't worry about the situation.  That doesn't make you a TERRIBLE person if you decide to do that.  

[Londres70]

"Anyway, back to the factory issues, if enough ppl did stand up and say I will not buy from companies that profit on the backs of desperately poor ppl who work in abhorrent conditions, they might actually do something to support their workers. It is usually when *we* experience the horrors that we are moved to act. Very sad.".......Rivll

EXACTLY.....That's what I'm talking about.  

OH......your statement is just as brilliant.  

[rivll]

http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/03/news/international/pluggedin_fortune/index.htm

This is a pretty good article that addresses the problem and even shows how some companies are doing something positive.

[orphanedhawk]

We all want to find a deal. I'm a thrift store shopper and I do rather well but that doesn't work well with rough and tumble kids.
My son was hard on his clothes so I do understand however, as Londres pointed out, if enough people boycotted these stores it would affect the bottom line.

This is why those of us who are concerned complain about the huge profits these corporations rake in, especially the CEOs.
They pay out pennies to their workers, sending US jobs overseas,and monopolize the markets.

[Londres70]

Absolutely.  

That's the GREED I am talking about.  

[brice1967]

Its wonderful that someone wants to make that stand.  In this day and age, everyone is pinching pennies and trying to stretch a buck.  There aren't a lot of alternatives to places like Walmart.

[orphanedhawk]

"There aren't a lot of alternatives to places like Walmart. "

This is why there used to be anti-monopoly laws.

Whether you have alternatives or not depends partially on where you live. Here, I shop the thrift stores, flea markets and resale shops.
But I have lived in rural areas with less choice and understand the difficulty.

Since you travel for your living, perhaps you could make a point of shopping elsewhere when you can.

When I go to the flea market I am always overwhelmed with how much is thrown away, in our consumer society.  I see mountains of useable purses, clothes, shoes, etc.

Londres~ I think you and I view things similarly;)

[Londres70]

:<))........usually we do agree.  

[brice1967]

We are limited on where we shop.  Where we work is a tourist destination.  When it comes to clothing, nothing is reasonably priced.  A 80 mile trip in the other direction brings alternatives and major price differences.  

Hard goods, things like appliances.... we have a Sears that will match any advertised price, but their shop is so small that some items are not available.  

Where we live and work completely dictates where and when we shop.

[orphanedhawk]

"Where we live and work completely dictates where and when we shop"

True, except for what we get online.