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Current Events . . . User Group
Health Care Reform
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This is a place where we can discuss current events - what happens around the world and is reported in the news. Healthy debates and discussions regarding issues we feel strongly about will be allowed; however, personal attacks will not be tolerated, nor will threads and/or comments that are argumentative, combative, or offensive. You *must* post a link to your source, or indicate if you heard it on TV, read a magazine/newspaper article, and indicate what radio/TV station, magazine/newspaper or your thread will be deleted. Remember, this is "Current Events", not "Current Arguments".

Founded by HelpinUtah on October 14, 2009
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Health Care Reform

What do you think?
42%
 (12) 
Fair treatment for all?
0%
 (0) 
Controlled treatment for the sake of money over illness?
57%
 (16) 
Government taking away freedom of choice?
28 Members voted
Related Discussions
103 Comments
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Avatar_f_tn
I think the Bill being proposed is just bigger government and less freedom of choice. It is always explained with a few words though has what, 2,000 pages. Still is not covering all citizens which is suppose to be what it is all about.
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585414_tn?1288944902
As I've posted I am for a plan that would provide health care coverage for all Americans with a graduated premium. I would believe that if a person has their own health care insurance coverage that they should be allowed to opt out though. There are aspects of the current bill I am strongly for such as the Community Choice Act (which I have been a supporter for years on its own) and aspects I do not support. I still believe that if it is passed before then there will be some revisions in it as there usually are (as there are negotiations between both sides) and unfortunately some political pork thrown in. Health care coverage should be available for all Americans. I don't know if this bill is the optimum way to provide it. I have the text of the bill bookmarked from a thread a while ago and I am still trying to read it through it:
http://help.senate.gov/BAI09A84_xml.pdf
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535822_tn?1389452880
I did hear some of it read,  one of the things is EVERYONE has to have it there is no choice , and if you dont pay its a big fine, if you dont pay the fine they can if they choose chuck you in Jail. My daughter in UK  cannot get a mammogram till she is 50 even though on her fathers side 2 Aunties have had cancer, After the first Baby you have to have children at home its too expensive to have them in hospital if like me the cord is wrapped around the Babies neck, the one midwife sends for what they called a Flying' Abulance to hospital, hopefully you get there in time again this was in London it may vary in differant cities, but I was told NO to hospital with 2 of my children, .  till you reach an age that is deemed as old' so you may go to hospital again, my brother waited for many months to get a prostate test then more to get the results ....I could go on and on , I fled from the socialism in UK....You wait several days to see a Doctor in many places, they are paid by the Government so they dont do too well.In UK you pay what they call a 10 pound stamp to pay for it, its going to be hugely expensive here. Best thing is to google for all the horrors that happen under a Government run health care system, the Brits are used to it, they havent known much else ...My own feelings are I hope the Senate throws it out.....Oh heres a tidbit they are trying to pass a bill where all will be given a card they carry with their carbon footprint on if they go over what they are allowed guess what fines ,and worse .....
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Avatar_f_tn
I have a lot of problems and have to go to drs constantly. I would definitely go over my allowed amount. They may decide I am too expensive for care!

I would think leaders that are voting on this bill would be ashamed to vote yes on such a thing. I can't believe that drs would want the government to control what care they can give their patients. Prices are not cheap to get treatments and tests, but if it is required to help a person, it should be left up to the individual to choose their care.

I searched for more than 20 years to find out the problem that affects my voice. I did finally find out, but I went through a lot to get to the right dr. That would not be allowed if the Bill was during that time.

Having babies outside of the hospital is very risky. Before they went to hospitals, there were a lot of deaths for women as well as the babies.

It is good to have someone that has been in that situation to advise us on what it is like.

I am glad that there is a site we can go to that we can see what the Bill is about. Hope they have the whole thing posted.

Thank you both for your valuable information. RJ
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144586_tn?1284669764
Obamacare.

The perfect solution to which no known problem exists.
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585414_tn?1288944902
Yes I've noted that many people are opposed to it and I can see why. I also have heard similar stories myself from people who lived in the U.K. or Canada offsite. I would not agree with the concept of socialized medicine. There are people here in the various forums from Canada or the U.K. who cannot find coverage for medications that are commonly prescribed in the United States because of health care rationing there. However, there are many people in the United States without health care coverage. What would people want to see instead?
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Avatar_f_tn
I don't know about other states, but where I live there are clinics and hospital care for those that don't have insurance. The income is the basis for cost. Before I had insurance, that is what I did and never had a problem. My sister is a single mother and has had several surgeries and her son also. The drs in which the plan is set up are in a teaching hospital with expert drs and technology. I still go to the same drs and have for years with insurance. If the costs are based on income then people that can't afford insurance can still get care and with expert drs. I personally think it is a great set up. It doesn't interfere with those who have insurance and provides equal care for those that don't.
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535822_tn?1389452880
Actually the folks that have not had health care coverage in the US and I am including all the illegal folks have had it ,I know of many 'free clinics that are run by Doctors in their 'spare time' and all the ER s in nearly every area and city there is a clinic run by Public health ,has been for many years I know of most Mexican workers who get good health care that way. On yesterdays news they informed us that they are re thinking the age for mammograms as I prevoiusly said happens in UK its going to be 50 ...and thats before the OBama care gets in ...so it begins .
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585414_tn?1288944902
From what I know people who are illegal immigrants are only eligible for emergency Medicaid only (that meaning a literally life threatening emergency, coverage stops after that). I do know the benefits system where I live. I definitely would not extend that. Health coverage should be for people who are American citizens as is, with the same  minor restrictions on people who have legal status (green card, etc.) as now which are fair minded. I would agree that the United States right now in a reccession can't economically absorb that many immigrants into the workplace so I do agree that bill is unworkable as well. I think from what we are all typing here the average American has more sense than the government but we only have a say in who we elect not what happens after that. Its only on state levels that people can vote on proposals that become laws.
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649848_tn?1357751184
ILADVOCATE: Where I live, illegal immigrants get to go to our county health dept's and many get better care than we, who have insurance. They even get sent to major hospitals that we have a hard time getting sent to.  

I think the health care plan has gotten way off track.  It started out as something that would give "affordable health CARE" to all Americans; then all of a sudden it shifted gears to "affordable health INSURANCE" - like it doesn't matter whether we can afford the CARE or not because we have INSURANCE and someone else will be paying the bills.  If the CARE were affordable, we wouldn't have to worry about whether we had INSURANCE or not.................

I, personally, am trying to get my medical issues under control before this stupid plan goes into effect.  The government is going to "subsidize" people who can't afford insurance -- how doggone expensive is it going to be anyway, that it has to be government subsidized??  And who's going to pay for THAT, if not US.........
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585414_tn?1288944902
Yes I would agree. I am concerned about the health insurance industry in general as it seems to have so many denials set up in it that many people, myself included get denied for medications that can be life sustaining. I am not sure what health care was like before people needed to be covered under a health insurance plan but perhaps in some ways it was better. The health insurance companies donate enough to politician's campaigns that they appear to be the only winners in any situation and determine the quality of a person's care. The insurance companies should either be further regulated or there should be enough competition between them that some of them to stay in business would have to lower premiums or have better rates and then people would by choice pick those plans. If the insurance companies in any case make the final decisions there would be no improvement and in fact people's options would worsen and premiums go up.
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649848_tn?1357751184
Well, I'll really date myself here, but *I* do remember what it was like before health insurance, and though it wasn't always easy to pay for, medical care was available.  When I was young, people were still bringing the doctor a chicken to pay for their care, or something else.  When my children were born, we had insurance, but for most things, we didn't even file a claim -- a doctor visit was like $20 - and that wasn't the co-pay, that's what it cost.  

It's these days of law suits and fancy offices, medical centers, etc, that the cost of basic care has gone out of sight.  

The only thing I agree with in the health care plan is the idea of not allowing insurance companies to deny coverage to those with pre-existing conditions.  
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535822_tn?1389452880
We never doubted that it needed reform I think its one thing we all agree on, its how its done and the Big rush to do it, its not as important as the economy or Job losses, I am hoping that the Senate will not pass it, we will get reform the ball is rolling but not OBamas way ,hey are we still picking money off trees to pay for it, where do these left wing folks who are waiting for government handouts think the money to pay for healthcare is coming from , the tooth Fairy ??
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649848_tn?1357751184
No, margy, they are "picking" the money to pay for this out of our pockets.  

Yes, we do need reform, but I hope the Senate doesn't pass it too; however, I have a feeling that Obama's going to have it "his way" one way or another..........His rush to get it done is that he doesn't want US to be able to figure out what all's happening until it's too late and we can't do anything about it...............
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585414_tn?1288944902
Interestingly enough last I read although there is a democratic majority that could easily pass it 3 senators who are democrats are refusing to vote for it for many of the same concerns people expressed. There may very well be some changes to it before it gets passed and that may not just come from republicans. The option of not having a choice as to having coverage or not as for one very big issue seems to be increasingly unpopular among officials not just the American public.
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535822_tn?1389452880
I have just finished watching a news programme I dont know if every tax paying American especially middle class realises that if this healthcare bill is passed , we start paying taxes immediatly and there are some hefty ones in it, yet we dont get the healthcare until 2014 .......
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585414_tn?1288944902
If that is the literal time line then I would say that's a lousy piece of bureaucracy right there. Everyone, myself included is sick of co-pays, deductables and denials of coverage and some people don't have health care coverage to begin with because they can't afford it or don't meet the guidelines. All I know is when I saw that movie by Michael Moore "Sicko" part of me said "this is too good to be true" so I believe now I was right. I do believe there needs to be a complete overhaul of the health care system (and remember unlike other benefits this one impacts on all people as if one person without coverage gets sick it can spread to other people, I am still upset about the H1N1 flu rationing and think the government should have made a better effort to be ready for it and have enough of the supply of the vaccine available for everyone this after president Obama calls it a "national epidemic") but this clearly is not the way.  It doesn't change my political perspective as a whole. However, it does broaden it as to things being more complex than I was originally lead to believe.
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Avatar_f_tn
One thing that just came to me is that this plan was suppose to be so the uninsured would have medical care because they couldn't afford it. That sounds good because we don't want to see people not get the care they need. The thing is, okay we will be paying to spread the care, but those that can't pay to have medical care are going to be fined a hefty amount if they don't get it, even face going to jail or prison. Now, if someone can't afford it now, and it is suppose to help them, why is there going to be a reason for a fine? If the ones that already have it pays for them, why are they having to pay to start with? It is suppose to be $7,500 more per year in cost (according to ones that have read it), on top of having to pay taxes on the money paid for coverage. If it is government health care, as I know from Medicare, you pay taxes on the cost of coverage. I checked it when I filed taxes because it didn't seem right because they do charge for Medicare Insurance and it is paid out of the money you receive, though you get SS according to what you paid into it in taxes. That income is going to be cut also. People that draw SS are going to pay more for insurance and draw less money. That is going to hurt the elderly, big time, also. So, where is there anything good in this. The government is going to have a l-o-n-g waiting list to see the dr and if your illness is life threatening, they may decide not to give you the care you need. They are going to decide if and when we get mammograms. Medicare only will cover mammograms every 2 yrs now. My mother had breast cancer and I have already had one spot removed. My mammograms started earlier because of it, as well as my daughter. Where is that going to leave women that have a family history of breast cancer. Yet they are whining to cover abortions. They are going to put out $ to stop a life, but not to keep a life?

The people pushing to pass this Bill have big money and they will never see that type of treatment. They will always get the best. Does anyone think Peloski is going to put herself at risk? That won't happen, not to her, or she wouldn't be smiling from ear to ear. Neither will Obama's wife or daughters or mother in law. I guess it doesn't bother him. Didn't his dying mother that had all those forms to fill out, that didn't get the care she needed, have cancer?    
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649848_tn?1357751184
I've said it before and I'll say it again ---- when the health care bill is good enough for the Pres, his family and congress, it will be good enough for ME and YOU.  

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Avatar_f_tn
Did any of you hear the latest news. Now they have obgyn drs on the news saying women no longer need to get pap smears until they are 21 and they have changed how often. Two drs were on the station talking about it. One (a man) said they were causing women more problems because they would find things that would just go away on it's own and unnecessary procedures would be done. The other dr (a woman), said the testing procedures are very minor and she did not agree. The dr that was against the tests said it is just bad timing that this just came out. It makes it look like they are just trying to save money.  This thing is really starting to affect the health care of women.
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535822_tn?1389452880
I have saaid it many times this is following UK their health care , my daughter who has 2 family members on her fathers side with Breast cancer was denied it till she reached 50, as she is a long way off and was concerned she paid privately to get it done ,although she could not afford the hefty cost...so it begins guys, you will end up having Babies at home aswell trust me, no option I had 2 at home ...they say they cant afford the hospital beds, or that there arent enough hospital beds ..My son was born in a one bedroom appt in London ,several yaers ago I may add, I went into labor the midwife truned up, I eventually got some 'gas and Air' for pain, the cord was round his neck and I was rushed into Hospital on what they call the flying Ambulance..As for getting tests and treatment over a certain age Hummmm go whistle Dixie ...
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Avatar_f_tn
I see exactly what you are talking about. Free America is swiftly going down the drain.
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535822_tn?1389452880
Unless"We the People ' turn it around again ........
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585414_tn?1288944902
  Yes well I do know the country changes from one direction to another as various political leaders fail us. I believe that it was under then president Nixon that the phrase "the silent majority" was coined. He did indeed propose changes for health care reform and also created Supplemental Security Income (SSI) (both of which may have benefited people) but he left the country in a state of disgrace. I can't really think of a president within my life time without their own agenda that in some ways took precedence over the best interests of the American people. Politics has become too imbedded and the two party mindset creates some form of recidivism where people are mainly reacting to what they see wrong in one leader instead of what they want as there is no one who represents their best interests or the interests of the nation as a whole.
    I do know this occured in the last administration when there were many people that had protests that really stood for nothing and despite my political stance I got disinterested in them as they were just grasping at straws and making our country apper to be divisive. I believe that other countries used this to foster a spirit of anti-Americanism which president Obama stated he would use negotiation and constructive means to end but nothing much has been done and the United States still has a low standing internationally which clearly any president that I would respect would take a stance against.
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285927_tn?1380802356
For me, the verdict is still out on this one. If I break the laws of my country and go to prison, I will have great medical care, be able to keep warm, free television and food. Seems immoral to me to have to do that to get medical attention. No one ever complains about the people who recieve it either. Hmmm, Are not all citizens worthy? Just the ones who break the law? I dont want free care, but I want to be able to get it at an affordable price. Too much to ask? Hmmm Guess so. So in my case, something is better than nothing. Will wait for the final bill and then c.
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535822_tn?1389452880
There is no doubt that we do need something better than there has been in the past I think we all agree on that , I would like it less government run healthcare I dont like the idea of fines etc for those who choose not to belong to it,that seems like an infringement of rights .
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649848_tn?1357751184
Infringement of rights --- margy, if we only could count every time our rights have been infringed on.  

I hate to see people unable to afford medical care or being turned down for insurance -- that's wrong, but still, I don't think it's right to fine those who chose NOT to pay for insurance.  If they chose not to pay for insurance, then by all means, they should have to foot the bill for their care.........
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535822_tn?1389452880
Barb thats what makes me mad a lot of young folks dont want it and hey we dont know what its going to cost per month that we HAVE to have ...truly freedom is down the drain,what about the fact that the taxes are starting now this next tax year yet it wont be for 4 years that healthcare starts   ....
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285927_tn?1380802356
The problem with that barb, at least from my standpoint is that we will be in the same boat we are in now. The uninsured are treated at the ER and when they do not have insurance, guess who foots the bill. Everyone who does have it pays the premiums to cover those persons.  If we can get affordable health insurance, should not all be required as to prevent the very problem we now face?  Im just thinkin out loud here, but if they make it affordable? I think they said they will be options for those who still cannot get it, like Medicaid if they qualify. Anyways, it will be interesting to c what comes out of all this. I am afraid after all is said and done it will be a watered down version and that is a different story altogether. As far as the subject of freedom, not being able to get it is not what I call freedoms either.
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649848_tn?1357751184
teko, you are right -- we are paying for those who don't have insurance, but with the new health care reform --- who is going to decide how *I* can pay for insurance premiums??  Just because a certain amount is affordable for one person, doesn't mean it's going to affordable for someone else -- so one of my major problems is the idea of *affordable* --- we know the dimwits in Washington have so much money, they don't know what to do with it, so what if THEY decide that a figure of something around $2000/month is "affordable" --  not for me, it isn't!!!  

And I haven't even touched on the fact that they are taking away MY right to decide what's best for ME and my family.  
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Avatar_f_tn
According to the plan, insurance is mandatory. Those that do not buy insurance will have to pay a fine and face jail time. The plan they have is still going to leave a large number of people without insurance coverage. It doesn't make sense to fine people that don't carry it because they can't pay for it, then fine them and put them in jail. What has been accomplished from that? They don't advise people of their methods to get their money from those that don't pay, either, and believe me they will get their money, even if you won't have food to eat when they get finished. Many don't carry insurance because they can't live off of their paychecks, those that still get one.

From what I see, one of our biggest problems is illegal people. They get medical help at hospitals that we pay for in taxes. Not being a citizen, they can't make them pay for it. There is no way to collect the money on a non-citizen because collection laws do not apply to them. So, States have to cover by taxes, be it state or federal. Citizens however can go through their Social Services for care and what they pay is determined by their income. In Virginia, those that go through that system get excellent care by going through a medical college hospital. Top drs train others to be drs, and everything is monitored by the teaching physician. They have all the newest technology, and only the best of drs are chosen to teach. Though I have insurance, I still go through those same drs, because they are the best at what they do.

We have lost control here, but it is not our fault, it is our leaders not doing their job. We also allow people to come here and work by having authorization through the government, but they are non-citizens. My husband worked with one for years. He braged to other workers that he got his whole paycheck because he paid no taxes. He had to go home every so often to keep his status, then come back and work at the same job. He had a girlfriend that he had several children with. She was taken care of by Social Services because she is a citizen. He still lived with her, but was not made to take care of their children the way any other man can by law, because the laws did not apply to him. He told all of that to his co-workers and laughed. All that he did, was protected, because of laws that did not apply to him.

We can have a big heart and want to help everyone, but we cannot take care of the world. There has to be a limit to what is allowed. There are thousands working and taking jobs from others that are citizens, because they will work for lower wages, well they can do that if more than 1/3 of their pay is not taken the way it is for citizens. They can work for less, and still get a larger paycheck. Now the government wants to provide their care by taking more money in federal taxes, and make us take their insurance. They can say they won't but they will. Obama's own aunt is illegal and living in government housing. Now how did that happen? Qualifying for govt housing, she qualified for govenment care, food stamps, or whatever. Who foots the bill? The bill says we can have our insurance, but, if anything changes, coverage, cost, anything, we cannot continue it and have to go with the government insurance. They have a date listed in the bill that begins and ends our choice of coverage, and grandfather clause. Does anyone think the government is going to give us choice about anything that they can make money on? The illegal will still get care, and still not pay. Citizens that can't afford it, and there are many, will be fined, and the government will collect their money by whatever means possible, taking savings, clearing out checking accounts, taking all of your paycheck, or taking anything you own. I have seen it happen. It is called IRS.

Other Countries monitor the ins and outs of their borders, preventing just what we are dealing with. Can people that are not working pay for insurance? So, where does that leave them? Don't think that illegal workers are not taking jobs that citizens are losing their jobs over, because they are. The type of work my son does, and there are many in his field out of work, is now filled with people that have crossed the boarder. He has done that type of work for over 20 yrs and knows many, many people that are out of work in that same field, all saying the same thing. Does the government do anything about that? Would those workers be working and able to carry insurance if they had those jobs?

There is more to correcting the Health Care than the government control. Premiums go up because salaries go up, cost of care goes up when hospitals and drs are trying to provide better techniques for their patients and taking additional education to give better care. Our cost of living is higher, so is theirs. If we could shop for insurance, the competition would help us. If unemployment wasn't through the roof, more people could afford it. If illegal people weren't taking jobs, our economy would recover. Not one thing is even mentioned cleaning that mess up. Everything is just getting worse and worse and the government extends their hand and in the end they own us. If the government closes down insurance companies, that is going to be even higher unemployment. Obama is suppose to be so smart, he can't figure out anything but government control, and less freedom? I think it is a shame to pay for votes by including big money for a State, as one example, and meetings behind closed doors only with his party, for another. So what is going on that it has to be hidden?
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535822_tn?1389452880
You have hit the nail on the head RJ I think a lot are begining to see the light, and what you have quoted is only a small part of what they are trying to do, they keep the big issues out in the spotlight whilst passing all kinds of stuff we dont know about, dont listen to a word he says but watch what he does, also Foreign Policy is up the shute ,he doesnt know what he is doing, there are a miriad of problems, the economy should be the most important thing to address, and jobs, but NO he has spent all years focused on other countries most of whom are laughing at him, Germany came out and called him a wimp recently.I actually think he knows what he is doing, he never liked America and you can tell by his punishing/negativity he  doesnt .He called for Transparency and said everything would be open as you have just said its all behind closed doors..and where on earth does everyone think trillions and trillions of Dollars are coming from..the tooth Fairy ? In the Hisory of America no one has run up this kind of debt , my honest opinion is we are going broke, bankrupt ....
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285927_tn?1380802356
Left as things are currently, medicaid, medicare and social security will be null and void in a decade. We all have our own views of the problems and/or the solutions to them. I do not think everyone will be happy no matter what happens.  America has many issues facing it today and we brought it all upon our selves. We live in a different world than we did 20 years ago and unfortunately change is the name of the game. Things cannot and will not continue as they have been. I think they call it progress. Each generation down thru the years have been unwilling when it comes to change. People said the same things when social security came about. lol  We are a peculiar bunch! I have many misgivings just like everyone else, but also realize that if I go throw myself out in front of the white house, the only thing they are gonna do is put me in jail!  At least I would have health care tho! (meant as humor only!)
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306867_tn?1299253309
In the Hisory of America no one has run up this kind of debt , my honest opinion is we are going broke, bankrupt ....

It's just unbelievable how quickly we forget the Bush presidency, and what a broken mess that was handed to this current president.
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535822_tn?1389452880
I also do think that this started a long time back,before Clinton was in Office, but it is this President now who is spending Trillions , printing money and continueing to do so,not addressing the economy ,and making us pay now for a health care system not coming in for 5 years  how much taxes can all of us pay, its not the rich there arent that many it is all working people.....I see Ireland is up in arms about the Goverment breaking that country, I mean Sourhern Ireland not the North that is part Of the UK ....I think if you dont see what he is doing to this country you have your eyes closed..what does it take ..well keep on blaming Bush if that helps you ...
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585414_tn?1288944902
I would agree about the debt as regards before but it is continuing to spiral out of control now. When Clinton was president he promised to pass a healthcare plan and that never materialized. There are millions of Americans without healthcare and there doesn't seem to be a workable solution in place. I'd rather hear promises that everyone recieve healthcare than everyone be insured because insurance can easily put in costly denials, premiums, co-pays or deductables that often make paying out of pocket easier and more affordable which is the reason a certain number of people don't apply for it to begin with.
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535822_tn?1389452880
It was a choice of many Americans especially the younger ones not to have health care and remember they counted the Illegal folks in their quoted Millions figure, actually I heard the reverse, it is not as big a figure as quoted. they have given all rights to the illegal its in this bill even though he said recently he wasnt going to. I dont know the exact figure but I have read many many Americans are  happy with what they have , he wants the illegal votes after Amnesty.. its all politics ...by the way as I have said before there are many Free clinics out there that have always given illegal people healthcare coverage , its not just the ER...wait till you see what price has to be paid out each month ..mandatory or penalties ...
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285927_tn?1380802356
I think there is enuff blame to go around as to how we got here so I do not feel the need to name names, really doesnt matter at this point anywho. I do think the majority of folks see the need for change and that is what its gonna be one way or the other. I have to tell ya tho, all this talk about public option and people not liking the idea surprises me. We already have a government option and have had for years. Medicaid and I think Medicare is right there with it. Medicaid is full of people who dont want to work and keep having babies to make sure they dont have to. I been paying into medicare for years but looks like it might be gone by the time I get old enuff to use it. I have to say that I do not totally understand everything, and I guess if I did I would not be posting on here and I would have lots more money and not have the issue of health care, but from what I do no, the current system is broken and getting more broke every day. I just wish I knw the answer.
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535822_tn?1389452880
Yup teko a lot of the truth in what you have posted , I feel the same really, all I hope that whatever happens we can benefit from the new healthcare system, whatever they work out for us all.It doesnt kick in for years anyway so we are still with our insurance or whatever  . yet we will be paying for it NOW ....
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535822_tn?1389452880
Hey what am I saying....a weak moment heck...no Public option ....
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585414_tn?1288944902
I was reading today they are already planning limitations on coverage for home health care as part of Medicare cost reductions. As I've posted the funding was supposed to be redirected towards home health care from its current nursing home bias which is a proven reduction in costs and also allows people with disabilities and elderly people to live in the community. I had supported the community choice act and president Obama when he was running had stated that he would sign that specific bill into law. The only reason it hasn't been passed in the 15 years it has been proposed is the nursing home lobby. If that doesn't go through as part of it (just one of many examples) it shows hypocrisy in politics is very contagious and a politician is only as good as their actions not their words but that is nothing new. I doubt we'll get something workable or feasible at all especially if the specific increase in taxes is enacted long before the actual coverage.
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Here's some good Ques.& Ans. about the Health Care Reform Bill, if anyone is interested..........
A universal health care system has many benefits. One benefit is that doctors and providers can turn their concentration to helping patients instead of insurer demands and liability insurance for malpractice. This can increase the efficiency of doctors, who do not have to worry about restrictions as a result of insurance company policies. Other benefits include not having individuals opt out of treatments or medical tests because of the high costs that are involved.
If Congress makes history and puts a bill on President Barack Obama's desk by Christmas, how long before the uninsured get medical coverage?
If you said three years or more, you'd be right. Yet many people don't realize that to keep costs down, lawmakers made compromises that might not appeal to consumers.
"There's going to be a long period of great expectations and very modest deliveries," said economist Robert Reischauer, president of the Urban Institute public policy center. That's assuming Democrats prevail.
Some questions and answers on the House-passed bill and the version the Senate will begin debating in the week ahead; both measures were written by Democrats:
Q: How many people would be covered?
A: The Senate bill would cover 94 percent of eligible Americans under age 65; under the House bill, it's 96 percent.
That's a major improvement over the 83 percent now covered, but the safety net would have holes.
Some 16 million eligible people would remain uninsured under the Senate bill and 12 million under the House bill, according to the Congressional Budget Office. That's not counting illegal immigrants, who would not be eligible for government assistance under either bill.
Both bills would eventually require Americans to get health insurance, or face fines.
Q: Why don't lawmakers just provide coverage for everyone?
A: Part of the reason is it would cost more, at least $250 billion over 10 years. The president wants to keep the total cost to about $900 billion. But it means workers and their families would be more than twice as likely to be uninsured as older people, virtually all of whom are now covered by Medicare.
Q: How affordable is the new middle-class coverage going to be?
A: It depends.
Most people would remain in their employer plans. Self-employed people and those working in small businesses would be able to buy coverage through a new insurance marketplace, with government subsidies available for many.
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The aid is substantial for lower-income households, but drops off rapidly for the middle class.
Under the House bill, a family of four headed by a 45-year-old making $44,000 a year would pay roughly $2,400 in premiums, or $200 a month, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.
A similar family making $66,000 would pay about $6,580 in premiums, or about $550 a month.
That's a bargain compared to current rates, which can top $1,000 a month, but it still may be too much for some family budgets. About one-third of the uninsured say they'd be able to pay $200 a month in premiums, and only 7 percent say they can afford $400.
Q: Twenty-year-olds don't have many health problems. Would they be required to get coverage?
A: You bet.
Unmarried children could stay on their parents' plan until age 27 in the House bill, 26 in the Senate plan. That change would start in 2010.
But those buying coverage for themselves could be in for sticker shock. Insurers now charge the young and healthy much less than middle-age people who are more likely to get sick. Under both bills, age-related premiums would be limited. So the young would pay more than they do now.
"The people who are going to do best are older people with a problematic medical history," said health policy expert Paul Ginsburg, of the Center for Studying Health System Change.
Q: These bills are going to ban pre-existing conditions, right?
A: Yes, but not immediately.
Both bills would forbid insurers from denying coverage to people in poor health or charging them more. That would happen in 2013 under the House bill, and 2014 in the Senate's.
The reason for the delay is that it would be unfair to require insurers to take all applicants right away. The sick would sign up, but healthy people would probably wait until they faced the threat of government fines. Such a situation could raise premiums for everyone.
Q: So if I have a health care problem, I might still have to wait three years to four years for coverage?
A: At Obama's request, lawmakers tried to take care of that by setting aside $5 billion for temporary "high-risk" insurance pools to provide affordable coverage for people whose health is frail.
But there's a problem with the patch.
According to the Congressional Budget Office, the money would run out in 2011 unless Congress pumps in more cash.
Q: Older people are concerned about what's going to happen to Medicare. Should they be?
A: Even though cuts in Medicare payments to hospitals and other providers are paying for much of the cost of covering the uninsured, benefits under traditional Medicare aren't reduced.
But those who've signed up for private insurance plans through Medicare Advantage could lose valuable extra benefits, according to the budget office.
For years, the government has been paying the private plans more than it costs traditional Medicare to deliver similar services. The plans used the money to provide extra benefits - mainly lower copayments and deductibles.
Both bills offer cheaper prescription drugs to those who fall into the "doughnut hole," the Medicare coverage gap. The House bill gradually would eliminate the gap. Both bills also provide better coverage for preventive care.

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Medicare or Medicaid automatically cover at a certain age. Sure there are always fakes of disablities that aren't. I can say, that going through this state, there can't be many. Looking at a person, one can't always tell if the person has a medical problem that is not visable. If they have arms and legs, can walk and talk, doesn't mean they don't have threatening diseases, or malfunctions. It took me 6 yrs to get disability through. I go to many drs and am on a lot of meds. I take pain medication constantly. People can't see my pain, when it is too bad, I am in bed. People on dialysis, look fully functional at lot of times. It is not always so easy to judge. You can't see cancer that a person deals with unless it causes a physical disability that you can see, or loss of hair from chemo, or in the latter stages.
Medicare and Medicaid is paid out of the person's income, just as insurance. I have looked at the % paid to drs that accept it, and it is very low. Mine does not pay out the amount I pay for the coverage.

They have so many restrictions on qualifications for those plans, and what they cover, it is controled as to what they spend and the care a person gets. Most people have to buy a supplement coverage, and then don't get all of what they need. My mother had acid reflux. Sounds simple. She could have had an operation to fix it. It was never offered. The dr gave her a prescription that would cost her $300 per month. How many elderly people do you think could afford it? She died of esophagel cancer from it. Why do you think AARP backs the Bill? They sell supplemental insurance. My mother had it. Didn't help her a bit. I'm surprised they didn't offer to "pull the plug" as they put it. Offering end of life options to the long term sick, and elderly, is a bad thing. How many people do you know that suffer from deep depressions from those things? We have been funding abortions for years. They were aborting up to 8 months. A reliable health care worker told me that back in the 70s.

Where do you think the illegal pregnant women go to have their babies? ER The child then is taken care of by state funds.

2,000 pages to change benefits. They decide if a person is worth living or "investing". We aren't really talking about helping get better care, we are talking about giving ownership of our bodies. Don't we have freedom of control of our own body? I have to do more reading in the Bill, because I think it starts affecting us sooner, on our care, and I know we loose private insurance from simple things. Yes we do conflict on this Bill, but have we ever known anything the government does that does good for us, that doesn't end up bad for us? Besides, I like owning my own body.

Ask someone that has experienced government health care in other countries what it is, that have come here. It is not like our government to make promises and fool us in the past.

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I just read in my local paper tonight. 2 major hospitals in the county will discontinue carrying Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Florida. The only way they will see these policyholders is if they pay the out of network fees. Otherwise 43 thousand people will have to go to another county for their healthcare. It seems the insurance company has had to lay off people and cut back due to the large volume of people on unemployment and no longer carrying health insurance. At the same time the hospital has had an increase in people with no insurance due to the econemy and have their own cutbacks they are dealing with.  

Now, to date we have the same healthcare, no one as yet has changed it. No public option (unless you consider those to be medicare and medicaid). Who loses? the policyholder does!  Now someone tell me again what wonderful healthcare we have in America! And dont blame it on Obama for a change. And explain to me how this can continue. Not blame, just solutions would be nice for a change?
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The hospital says they will not see patients for what the insurance is will ing to pay and the insurance refuses to pay the hospital more. Stalemate, did anyone see this one coming?
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Teko, right now, everything is in an uproar because of the economy. It will get worse when all the insurance companies shut down, more unemployed.

I have read through a lot of the Bill. What they are proposing is very scary. They will have a Commissioner, that will have more authority than we could imagine.
His Report starts at the Date of the Act, not when Year 1 comes. It includes any recommendations to ENSURE that the law does NOT provide incentives for small & midsize businesses to self insure or create adverse selection.  page 22-23

Qualified health benefits shall meet a medical loss. Method to calculate medical loss shall be set at the highest ratio loss to ensure adequate participation by QHBP

Minimum Services to be covered:
Hospitalization; Out patient Hospital & Out patient Clinic Services including Emergency Dept. Services;Professional Services of Physicians & other Health Care professionals; Equipment, supplies for physicians, health care delivery of care in institutions, drs.offices, patients home or other setting; prescriptions; rehabilitive/habilitive services; Mental Health/Substance Use Disorder   page 27-28
year limitation individual-$5,000   family-$10,000
Co-payments-Secretary-to the max extent possible use co-payments not co-insurance
Benefits provided equivalent to 70% of actual value

Commissioner to handle means of billing and collection practices
Emplement taxes, taxes on unisured-IRS
Excise Tax (not meeting certain requirements

States have to apply to Commissioner for State Based Health Insurance

Commissioner Enforcement Authorities

Grandfather Health Insurance Coverage: Subject to provisions for purposes of establishing acceptale coverage-
Limitations on new enrollment-Issuer offering coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first da of Y1

There is also "Birthing Centers" for women, with a trained person, not a dr or affliated with a dr., (stopping hospital births, how many lives will be lost because of it)

This is just a part of what I saw and I didn't make it to the end. I do remember however that a dr that orders equipment or prescriptions in basically a situation that won't go away, has to have persmission, and if the dr helps by prescription or order no matter who pays for it, is punished.

I fear to know what the rest of it says. The Commissioner has power that should not be allowed to anyone. They will have control on drs education, hospitals surviving, there is no end. I can paste the gov. site if you like.
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I have not nor will not read the proposed plan until they have something difinative. Right now as it stands it is still a work in progress. I do find it curious tho that hospitals are refusing to see policyholders from blue cross and blue shield. These policyholders that have paid all the big bucks for health care are no better than someone who does not have insurance. Just one of the many things needing addressed as well as the fact that someone who does not have insurance, and is seen in the local ER does not get the write off that a policyholder does. They pay full price or full price is written off, so they say. I have a sister who is on medicare and she has needed knee implants. Instead the doctor was told to do a series of steroid shots, then rehab, then surgery to repair first. Now 2 years later she is getting the knee replacement. So I do understand when they say there is major waste in medicare and,medicaid is open to any and all age groups based on income. Lots of waste there too.  Them people can afford to eat steak while I eat hamburger.  I have seen single mothers get welfare and live with a boyfriend who has a full time job. My point is there is lots of room for improvement in all arenas. It will be interesting to c what comes out of it all.
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Teko, I have to agree with you on everything you've said. I've gotten very lost on what is happening with this bill, as it seems to change daily. I'll wait to make judgement when it's finalized. At that point though, it'll be very altered and washed down. I would definitely want to see health care for all Legal Americans, some how-some way. But that's not likely. There is so much fraud in the welfare system that needs to be tightened. I've known a lot of people that get welfare/medicaid and work off the books or single moms who have BF living there with a full paycheck.And they just have another baby if they want more money! A lot of waste in Medicare. My mom is 82,on medicare and has lots of health problems. But her many doctors send her for tests and appointments that are absolutly not needed. Medicare pays for special shoes to be made for her a couple of times a year, at over 300.00 a whack. SHE DOESN"T EVEN WALK!!!! But the doctors push her for all this stuff!!?? They could save a bundle on just my mother. And my Mom says "but my doctors say I have to do this".
The illegals in this country is a sore spot with me.  I don't understand why any President hasn't addressed this situation with a strong hand. They are costing this country a fortune in so many ways.
Back to the HCR subject. I really think when everything is finalized, there will be very little change and insurance premiums will continue to spiral out of control. I don't think the government will put in place anything that will cause competition in the insurance industry and if they're forced to accept pre-existing conditions the premiums will go thru the roof. I think the end result of this bill, will be so washed out, it will not be worth the effort put into it. We'll see.
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http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/111/AAHCA09001xml.pdf

This is the site I got the info from

That they would even put those things in for consideration in a Free Nation, is pass belief. I hope we do get to read what changes are going on before it gets passed. I hope they have scratched what they have and started over, because all the way through it in what I read is to cut cost by controling what care we do get, and they decide how necessary it is. There is certainly other means to stop abuse of the system. We should not have to pay the price at the expense of tax increase, loss of Rights, and loss of quality care. Hospitals are speaking out against it. I also hope that they all read everything in it before they vote. The kinds of things that have been purposed is why there is such an uproar. It is said over and over, it is going to change our Country, by those that are working on it, and it is too much government control. It should never have been up for dicussion, just trashed. Hopefully, our Representatives are going to stand firm on Protecting all of us from such control.  
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I have managed to try to read through the health care reform bill in the past few months but that many pages is hard to digest. I do know that if it doesn't provide options for people but requires them that would not be right. Also the focus should be on affordable health care coverage not insurance. A good health care plan would have a variety of coverage options and the ability for people who have their own insurance not to participate if they don't want to. I have seen some articles on states that have workable health care coverage systems and this is how it is generally done.
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I just heard on the news, and maybe you did too, that one of the things the dems may have to agree to in order for the rep to be on board is to put caps on spending in a year, I think is what they said. No lifetime caps but they said they have to be reasonable caps. Well, I guess that would work for a toenail fungus but not too sure how it would work if ya get cancer? It makes me sick how these politicians are in the back pockets of the insurance companies. Just makes me sick! Of course I have learned not to believe what you hear because in 5 minutes there will be a different spin put on it. You simply cannot believe the news anymore cause it is not news but simply someones opinion. Grrrh!
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