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How do you reconcile this? "Rape is a gift from God."

http://www.upworthy.com/so-this-guy-running-for-senate-said-rape-was-gods-intention-no-not-that-guy-anot?c=ufb1
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Avatar universal
When you try to rule by morality, whose morality are we going to rule by? Is it going to be a Mormon faith, a Baptist, Jehovah witness, or how about a muslim? Keep it separate. So all it takes is a majority of whatever faith is running and they can legislate accordingly? This isn't even about abortion as much as it is how dangerous this could be. I hear so many people dissing christianity because of this, and I think it could do so much more harm than good. But I'm only one person.
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163305 tn?1333668571
It's a circular discussion, isn't it ??

One side says the fetus ( baby if you will ) has no choice, the other side says we should be concerned about living adults over a fetus.

This is why I believe it should not be a decision legislated by law. It's too personal and wrapped up with religious and personal beliefs.

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973741 tn?1342342773
Well, they pray for women as a whole but would probably believe that those women made a choice and the babies didn't get one.
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163305 tn?1333668571
To play devil's advocate~ do they pray for the 47,000 woman who die each year from unsafe abortions ?
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973741 tn?1342342773
I'm pretty sure the Catholic Church is not new in their support of families that suffer miscarriages believing that they've lost a baby and lending spiritual aid to them as they suffer. They pray for all of the aborted babies souls on a weekly basis.  

Differences of opinion are okay.  
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163305 tn?1333668571
I am sincerely sorry if my words comparing abortion to a forced miscarriage came across as uncaring. These words I first heard from a doctor I spoke with about the topic many years ago.

One of my closest friend, suffered from two miscarriages before finally carrying  her third pregnancy to completion.
I remember her sorrow with each loss.

Although I grew up with many Catholic friends, I have none now who still practice. Forgive me if I was wrong to say the church does no last rites. That was my impression. Certainly it was so in the past.

However, I adamantly oppose making abortion difficult or illegal as it once was. Let's not go backwards.

Here are the  facts.
http://www.overpopulation.org/
Every year 47,000 women die world wide from unsafe abortions.
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377493 tn?1356502149
And you know how much I hurt for you.  To go 19 weeks and suffer a loss must have been beyond heartbreaking.

K, thank you.  You know how much I appreciate you always.
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480448 tn?1426948538
Adgal...so sorry for your losses as well.  It is a special brand of pain that's impossible to explain.  Changes a person in some ways I think.

SM...thanks so much for the kind words.  I appreciate you acknowledging our pain.  XOXO
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973741 tn?1342342773
Yes, this man was an idiot for sure.  The way he expressed his thoughts was insensitive to any woman having been raped in my opinion.

Nursegirl and Adgal, I'm so sorry for your losses.  I know that hurts and I appreciate your trusting us all enough to share your personal stories and feelings.  Miscarriage hurts.  Adgal, that is wonderful that they do this for families to remember in that way.  peace to you both and peace to all.
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377493 tn?1356502149
I can see the pro life argument - and as I've said before, for me life does begin at conception, it's just that I don't consider abortion early in pregnancy to be murder.

For me though, that is not the point of this article.  That anyone could use the words "rape is a gift from God" is something I find very very offensive.  I can understand arguing not to abort a baby conceived in rape, but not the fact that the violent vicious act that resulted in pregnancy could ever be considered a gift.  For me, that is where the problem lies.  I don't really see this a pro choice/pro life issue so much as an idiot using unacceptable and offensive language.

And I will finish that thought by saying that I have mourned every single pregnancy I lost - chemical and miscarriage  To me that was my baby - I don't care what anyone thinks of me for feeling that way  Ask any women who has miscarried multiple (or even 1) wanted pregnancy, and I will guess you will get a similar answer.  It hurts....deeply.  So yes, I attend a memorial every year at our local hospital.  Here, they bury whatever remains there are and there is a garden on the hospital grounds for the family to spend time remembering, mourning or whatever you feel you need to do.  And I for one am grateful to have that special place.  
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480448 tn?1426948538
Yep!  Onto something else...think I'll go check out the "r" thread.  Can't hardly wait.  :0)
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Avatar universal
Well I have said where I stand and like rivll, am done with the discussion.
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973741 tn?1342342773
Hm.  Know many Catholics?  Certainly, chemical pregnancies may not but a baby that miscarries into the pregnancy of several weeks is mourned as if a child sometimes complete with a family prayer service.  And while calling a priest into the bathroom where a woman has miscarried her child due to a very early miscarriage might not happen, rest assured that priests are called and prayers are said often.  

Do pro choice folks have any limitations to that choice?  When is it NOT okay to have an abortion if ever?  

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480448 tn?1426948538
No church that I've heard of performs last rites for a miscarriage. To me, that alone, says something, though it's never mentioned in the argument about abortion. .


I hate a late term miscarriage at 19 weeks (one week shy of the cut off for a stillborn) and had our pastor at the time come to do exactly that.  I think it probably varies from religion to religion, church to church.
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163305 tn?1333668571
To repeat myself, "The decision to have a baby, use birth control have an abortion or not, should not be legislated. "

No legislating birth control means both sides, don't tell me what that I have to use it or that I cannot use it. These issues are too personal to be legislated.

I do support easy access to birth control as a means to help limit population growth.

SM~ I hear this idea about people who believe abortion is killing if you believe life begins at conception. Yet, it can also be seen as an induced miscarriage.
No church that I've heard of performs last rites for a miscarriage. To me, that alone, says something, though it's never mentioned in the argument about abortion.
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973741 tn?1342342773
Abortion is an emotional issue for a lot of people and that is why it evokes such passion on either side.  

Rape is a whole other story and always tragic.  
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Avatar universal
I am finished with the topic. It is very emotional for me the whole rape thing and I am worn out. I know how others feel. I respect it too. I just don't want the law to tell women what we can or cannot do with our bodies.
Enough already.
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Avatar universal
I agree with you...but legislating mandatory contraceptives for ecological reasons would set off a fireworks I am not ready for...
When it comes to the point that the people have outnumbered the resources, there will be mass starvation and plagues and at some point someone may ask that question if we still have a sustainable planet and it will seem like common sense.
But right now, the world ain't going for it.
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480448 tn?1426948538
BTW: Nobody wants to talk about the other consequence of limiting birth control, the over population of the planet. I wonder why that subject has become taboo ?


Tell that to the Duggars.  ;0)  LOL
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973741 tn?1342342773
Rivll, (and teko)---  we have in common our experience of motherhood and how we felt about it.

My point is that for some if they believe it is a baby at conception and it isn't based on their religion, the idea of seperating church and state doesn't apply.  Then they are just working on the notion that abortion is murder and murder is illegal.  

Again, I'm middle of the issue and if push came to shove would want women to have a choice.  I feel I need to keep repeating that so people know I'm just discussing the subject and not arguing the point to take away all choice for women.  

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163305 tn?1333668571
The decision to have a baby, use birth control have an abortion or not, should not be legislated.

These are personal and medical decisions.

BTW: Nobody wants to talk about the other consequence of limiting birth control, the over population of the planet. I wonder why that subject has become taboo ?
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480448 tn?1426948538
But, whether you are religious or not, some do believe that it is a child upon conception and 'killing' that child is murder.  Murder is against the law.

That's exactly it.  While pro-choice folks feel they are protecting the rights of the mother, pro-life people think just as fervently that they need to protect the rights of the unborn child.  It's quite simple.

To say "rape is a gift from God is just disgusting".  My views are also in the middle somewhere.  I do think a woman who conceives as a result of something like raper absolutely should have the right to decide how that pregnancy should be handled.  SHE will have the burden for the rest of her life (and the life of the child) to deal with all that.  Someone extreme about pro-life wants to protect that child, no matter what.  

There will always be extremists on both sides.  This guy is a perfect example of that.  Politically speaking, Romney has already said he is for the right to terminate in this kind of situation...for what that's worth.

Extremists like to make bold statements...they're very much about shock value.  If he had said something that sounded more reasonable, it wouldn't have been as big a news story....he's no doubt celebrating that it's getting so much attention.  People would be better off just ignoring his a$$.
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Avatar universal
Spot on. :)
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Avatar universal
I agree with you, and I have heard people say they believed life begins at conception, others when they were born and God breathed life into them. For me, having as many as I do, I felt the same things, but that is me and what I believe. I have also heard others that believe the science of egg and sperm unite to create baby in all animals of the earth. So it just goes to show that people have differing views. Based on those differing views I guess it makes sense to make everyone deal with decisions that life brings according to what they believe. In other words, simply the right to choose....
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