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Imminent Domain Fight - Your thoughts
As I am fairly new to this forum, this may have been previously discussed. I did a search and didn't find it but if it has been discussed, just ignore it! I personally believe that imminent domain is abused in too many instances. What are your thoughts on it? My source on this is MSNBC.
Feds threaten eminent domain grab on Vermont farm
By JOHN CURRAN
Associated Press Writer
updated 12:42 p.m. CT, Sun., May 2, 2010
FRANKLIN, Vt. - This is one sleepy border crossing.
At the Morses Line Port of Entry, on the U.S.-Canada border, the border station is located smack-dab in the middle of a Vermont dairy farm.
On average, 2½ cars pass through an hour. The pace is so slow that U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents who man it have been known to fill out their days by driving golf balls in an adjoining meadow, shooting skeet or washing their cars.
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Some here think the World War II-era brick structure that houses the border station should be abandoned entirely.
Not the U.S. Department of Homeland Security: The government, which got $420 million from the federal bailout to modernize land ports like this, wants to spend about $7 million to build an expanded station. To do it, the government says, it needs an adjoining 4.9-acre parcel now used to grow hay and corn.
Owners of the Rainville dairy farm were told last week that if they won't sell the hayfield for $39,500, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers will use eminent domain to seize it.
"The arrogance of it is breathtaking," said Brian Rainville, 37, whose parents and two brothers run the 220-acre farm and milk 80 cows on it. "Why are we being asked to make that kind of sacrifice when they can't demonstrate a public need?"
The public need is national security, according to Customs and Border Protection.
The building, which went up in 1936 after the government seized about a half-acre of land from the farm's then-owner, is outdated by any standards. Its detention area is a bench with a set of handcuffs attached to one end, just inside the glass front door.
Trucks passing through have to be inspected as they sit on Morses Line Road, because the porte-cochere that hangs over the one inspection lane isn't big enough to accommodate them.
Originally, a $15 million expansion was planned, using 10 acres of the Rainville farm. That plan has since been scaled back. It calls for a two-story building on 1.5 acres, with the rest of the parcel devoted to parking, vehicle turnaround space, a stormwater pond, water well, septic and security fencing.
"Our airports, seaports, and land ports of entry are all part of an interconnected security network to facilitate entry and exit to and from our country," the agency said in a statement Tuesday. "When we fail to fortify one, we weaken the entire system, putting our national security at risk."
If the Morses Line Port of Entry can't be expanded, it may have to close, the CBP statement said.
Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano vowed this week to hold a public hearing on the project.
Pressed in a committee meeting by U.S. Sen. Patrick J. Leahy, she said the government had tried to make the expansion as small as possible, but that it couldn't get any smaller and still work.
"This is one of those things where we are trying to work with the owners to get down to the footprint. I believe it's actually been reduced down from 5 acres to 1.5 acres in terms of what CBP has determined it needs to actually do the kind of port improvement there — there's a certain minimum amount, unless you do it, you might as well not do it at all."
Leahy, who has taken up the Rainvilles' cause, believes it's not necessary at all.
"If it's not necessary, let's spend that money to improve other stations where there's heavy traffic and there are delays," said Leahy, D-Vt.
In an interview, CBP spokesman Rafael Lemaitre wouldn't address the Rainvilles' complaints.
"CBP takes the concerns of our partners, including those in Congress and the local community, very seriously and has been in frequent contact with all stakeholders involved with the Morses Line Port of Entry over the past year," he said in the statement. "CBP looks forward to discussing any outstanding issues as we work to find a solution that balances security with the needs of the local community."
That's not the tenor of the letter received April 19 by the Rainvilles' attorney, Richard Gadbois.
"... CBP, in coordination with USACE, is writing to inform you that it will be necessary to move forward with condemnation to acquire the necessary property interests," said the letter from Noreen Dresser, chief of the Corps' real estate division. "We anticipate filing a condemnation action within the next 60 days through the U.S. District Court for the District of Vermont."
For the Rainvilles — parents Betty and Clement, 70, and sons Tony, 39, Brian, 37, and Craig, 33 — it is survival that's at stake.
They say the land seizure could put the farm out of business. Buffeted by low prices for milk, the 220-acre farm lost money in 2009. Losing that much hay production — about 1,000 bales a year — would force them to buy hay to feed their milking cows instead of growing it themselves.
With hay at $3.25 per bale, the sale price wouldn't go far, says Craig Rainville, who says the government's negotiators see a city block when they look at the land, not a vital cog of a working farm.
"There's a culture gap here as wide as the Grand Canyon," he said Tuesday, sitting in the living room of the farmhouse. "They act like the farm is a movie set, where you take part of it out and the rest is supposed to function. It doesn't work that way."
"Save This Farm" reads the hand-painted 4-by-8-foot wooden sign that Brian Rainville recently erected on the land.
"It's what we do, it's who we are," he said. "We're hanging on by our fingernails. The last thing we need is for the government to break us."
Copyright 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Feds threaten eminent domain grab on Vermont farm
By JOHN CURRAN
Associated Press Writer
updated 12:42 p.m. CT, Sun., May 2, 2010
FRANKLIN, Vt. - This is one sleepy border crossing.
At the Morses Line Port of Entry, on the U.S.-Canada border, the border station is located smack-dab in the middle of a Vermont dairy farm.
On average, 2½ cars pass through an hour. The pace is so slow that U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents who man it have been known to fill out their days by driving golf balls in an adjoining meadow, shooting skeet or washing their cars.
Story continues below ↓advertisement | your ad here
Some here think the World War II-era brick structure that houses the border station should be abandoned entirely.
Not the U.S. Department of Homeland Security: The government, which got $420 million from the federal bailout to modernize land ports like this, wants to spend about $7 million to build an expanded station. To do it, the government says, it needs an adjoining 4.9-acre parcel now used to grow hay and corn.
Owners of the Rainville dairy farm were told last week that if they won't sell the hayfield for $39,500, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers will use eminent domain to seize it.
"The arrogance of it is breathtaking," said Brian Rainville, 37, whose parents and two brothers run the 220-acre farm and milk 80 cows on it. "Why are we being asked to make that kind of sacrifice when they can't demonstrate a public need?"
The public need is national security, according to Customs and Border Protection.
The building, which went up in 1936 after the government seized about a half-acre of land from the farm's then-owner, is outdated by any standards. Its detention area is a bench with a set of handcuffs attached to one end, just inside the glass front door.
Trucks passing through have to be inspected as they sit on Morses Line Road, because the porte-cochere that hangs over the one inspection lane isn't big enough to accommodate them.
Originally, a $15 million expansion was planned, using 10 acres of the Rainville farm. That plan has since been scaled back. It calls for a two-story building on 1.5 acres, with the rest of the parcel devoted to parking, vehicle turnaround space, a stormwater pond, water well, septic and security fencing.
"Our airports, seaports, and land ports of entry are all part of an interconnected security network to facilitate entry and exit to and from our country," the agency said in a statement Tuesday. "When we fail to fortify one, we weaken the entire system, putting our national security at risk."
If the Morses Line Port of Entry can't be expanded, it may have to close, the CBP statement said.
Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano vowed this week to hold a public hearing on the project.
Pressed in a committee meeting by U.S. Sen. Patrick J. Leahy, she said the government had tried to make the expansion as small as possible, but that it couldn't get any smaller and still work.
"This is one of those things where we are trying to work with the owners to get down to the footprint. I believe it's actually been reduced down from 5 acres to 1.5 acres in terms of what CBP has determined it needs to actually do the kind of port improvement there — there's a certain minimum amount, unless you do it, you might as well not do it at all."
Leahy, who has taken up the Rainvilles' cause, believes it's not necessary at all.
"If it's not necessary, let's spend that money to improve other stations where there's heavy traffic and there are delays," said Leahy, D-Vt.
In an interview, CBP spokesman Rafael Lemaitre wouldn't address the Rainvilles' complaints.
"CBP takes the concerns of our partners, including those in Congress and the local community, very seriously and has been in frequent contact with all stakeholders involved with the Morses Line Port of Entry over the past year," he said in the statement. "CBP looks forward to discussing any outstanding issues as we work to find a solution that balances security with the needs of the local community."
That's not the tenor of the letter received April 19 by the Rainvilles' attorney, Richard Gadbois.
"... CBP, in coordination with USACE, is writing to inform you that it will be necessary to move forward with condemnation to acquire the necessary property interests," said the letter from Noreen Dresser, chief of the Corps' real estate division. "We anticipate filing a condemnation action within the next 60 days through the U.S. District Court for the District of Vermont."
For the Rainvilles — parents Betty and Clement, 70, and sons Tony, 39, Brian, 37, and Craig, 33 — it is survival that's at stake.
They say the land seizure could put the farm out of business. Buffeted by low prices for milk, the 220-acre farm lost money in 2009. Losing that much hay production — about 1,000 bales a year — would force them to buy hay to feed their milking cows instead of growing it themselves.
With hay at $3.25 per bale, the sale price wouldn't go far, says Craig Rainville, who says the government's negotiators see a city block when they look at the land, not a vital cog of a working farm.
"There's a culture gap here as wide as the Grand Canyon," he said Tuesday, sitting in the living room of the farmhouse. "They act like the farm is a movie set, where you take part of it out and the rest is supposed to function. It doesn't work that way."
"Save This Farm" reads the hand-painted 4-by-8-foot wooden sign that Brian Rainville recently erected on the land.
"It's what we do, it's who we are," he said. "We're hanging on by our fingernails. The last thing we need is for the government to break us."
Copyright 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
I've only known about it from what happened in my city. The family did win their case at the supremem court level but it took so many years that it was too late for the family to actually live in the house anyway. But I would agree in terms of the story of borders . . . our Southern borders are where dollars should go!
Sounds bad. I simply do not know enough about it to give any imput! :(
You are right, Margy, the government needs to be using those $ to help secure our southern borders, not harassing some dairy farmers in VT.
Supreme court decision allows governmentto seize land not for public benefit but for greater revenue capacity for the government .If the City wants to seize your house to build a parking lot because that parking lot will provide the City with a greater Tax revenue then your house is as good as destroyed ..Almost no one that fights it wins because like it or not its legal .Almost everyone gets forced to accept' fair market value' 'thats below what was paid for the property, that is what people should fight for . when taking their cases to court .....
margypops----------- I think that is sad. I hope that the government loses that fight.
In Franklin VT the US government is trying to seize land from a Vermont Dairy Farmer ,US customs and Border federal protections wants to use Fed Stimulus money to improve, upgrade the tiny Morses border station (I have seen this piece on the news CNN)that has 2 cars an hour going through and is closed for 8 hours ..This Vermont Dairy farm has been producing milk for generations and needs to keep this land for its livelyhood ...Yet our borders go unprotected , this is where the federal government needs to be implementing ..at the Arizona border not in Vermont trying to seize land again ...
We had a big big issue with this in our city. A neighborhood that is older but up and coming in terms of property values has been the center of attention for a few years. (yes years.) A group wanted to expand a strip mall/office complex thing that butted up to one street. This was a typical street in an up and coming neighborhood of older homes. Some were renovated/rehabbed and some had long time owners and all were in various degrees of being fixed up. They tried to declare the street "blighted" which it certainly was not. They just wanted the property for a project. It went to at least my state supreme court as two families would not sell out. All of the others did and they were demolished but these two houses stood. Then it was only one house in the fight. They won but after several years and having had to vacate the premises prior to the decision, their house was uninhabitable. The "project" went dead when the company went bankrupt and that house still sits vacant and is an eyesore. Before "imminent domain" came into play there . . . it was a normal neighborhood street. So my thoughts on imminent domain? It can be used for greed and hurt communities.
The federal government owns 65% of land west of Denver , owns 98% of land in Alaska and 86% of land in Nevada ...The federal government was not created to be the owner of the land ...The Declaration of Independance in 1776 was the result of the King trying to tax ,and control, the use of Land ,he in the declaration of independance wqas referring to the British King as the federal government didnt exist at that time ..That is why we broke away from British rule and became the United States of America ..for Freedom to worship and Freedom to own our own land ,to produce and yes even to pay our taxes was okay!
Just my opinion.....If the Government wants to seize some one's property, they should offer the owners an amount that would completely cover the purchase of an equal property, house and everything on it, and the cost of relocation. Most of the time when I have read about these eminent domain situations, the Gov. never offers a sufficient amount to replace what the owners would be losing.
I'd need to do some more research as well, but even if the government has always had the right to seize land, why the huge need to rebuild a port of entry that's barely used? That's our tax $ being used and without a doubt, they could put those $ to much better use. If they'd close that port of entry, they could save the $ used to maintain it and hire people to man it. I, for one, don't particularly like the idea of people getting paid (with MY money) to "drive golf balls, shoot skeet and wash their cars"............
There may be instances in which imminent domain may be necessary; from reading the above story, it doesn't appear that this is one of those instances.
There may be instances in which imminent domain may be necessary; from reading the above story, it doesn't appear that this is one of those instances.
From what little I understand about this, the government has always had the right to seize land. I would need further details to give an opinion one way or the other. I feel for the family involved.
Thank you for putting this thread up ..Its disgraceful and appears to be happening a lot I have seen many differant Land seizures taking place .this is the way Big Government works it takes what it wants .My thoughts ...one more nail in the coffin ......
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