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Judge's ruling against NSA
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Founded by HelpinUtah on October 14, 2009
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Judge's ruling against NSA

Judge's ruling against NSA's bulk collection of phone records only 'opening salvo'

WASHINGTON –  A federal judge is making headlines by declaring that the National Security Agency's bulk collection of millions of Americans' telephone records is likely unconstitutional. But even he realizes his won't be the last word on the issue.

U.S. District Court Judge Richard Leon put his decision to grant an injunction against the NSA on ice Monday, predicting a government appeal would take at least six months. Even after a federal appeals court rules, the Supreme Court probably will have the last word.

Stephen Vladeck, a national security law expert at the American University law school, called Leon's ruling the "opening salvo in a very long story."

In his ruling, Leon granted a preliminary injunction against the collecting of the phone records of two men who had challenged the program.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/17/judge-ruling-against-nsa-bulk-collection-phone-records-only-opening-salvo/
19 Comments
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649848_tn?1357751184
While I'd suspect the whole debacle to be unconstitutional, I've no doubt that this Judge's word will not be the end of the story... even he knew that, when he handed down the verdict.  

I'm sure it will be a long story and by the time it's all said and done, most people will have forgotten that it started with collection of their own phone records.

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1310633_tn?1289313024
So I read up a little on what data the NSA is actually collecting:

It's nothing more than 'meta data'. In layman's terms, and in the context of this topic/article/subject... all they're collecting is PHONE NUMBERS.

Not people's names
Not people's locations
Not people's usage

Just raw data, in the form of phone numbers.

Not sure about anyone else, but I have ZERO problem with the NSA keeping track of how long I talk to my Mommy & Daddy, and the to-from phone numbers (and they won't even know WHO I'm calling, just the fact that a call from my number TO their number was made).

Why is everyone making such a big deal about this?
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Avatar_f_tn
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/us/politics/report-on-nsa-surveillance-tactics.html?emc=edit_na_20131218

Remember the team Obama put together to investigate and advise? No, I didnt  think so. Here are the results. Out today.
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Avatar_m_tn
Oh brother.....
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163305_tn?1333672171
Every report I've heard about this says they are indeed collecting phone and email conversations.
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Avatar_f_tn
I watched the 60 minutes interview the other night on this, anyone else watch it? Other than being very one sided, it went into detail about what they do and when and how they use this info. Personally it doesnt or never has bothered me at all. I would rather be safe than sorry.

But the link I posted above is the result of a team obama put together to investigate and advise on this subject. The report was released to the public because of the misinformation being spread.

That is why I posted the link, so you could read the report for yerselves and not take second hand info on what it said.
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163305_tn?1333672171
It bothers me on an intellectual standpoint. This is clearly unconstitutional and stinks of Orwellian paranoid government antics.
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649848_tn?1357751184
From the link teko posted:  "The N.S.A. uses the telephone data to search for links between people in an effort to identify hidden associates of terrorism suspects, but the report says it “was not essential to preventing attacks.”

There was also discussion in an earlier thread that they were looking for certain "keywords", but nobody seemed to know what those were; probably words many of us use on a daily basis...
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1310633_tn?1289313024
Kinda makes you wonder how many times the NSA has seen those "keywords here in this forum!

BOMB
PLOT
AIRPORT
WHITE HOUSE
OBAMA
PRESIDENT
THREAT
TERRORIST
TRAINING
KILL

There you go Mr. NSA... have fun!!!
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649848_tn?1357751184
They'll probably coming to get us all, and once we're rounded up, we'll get to meet each other after all..
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1310633_tn?1289313024
I can't WAIT to meet all of you (in federal prison).

It'll be nice to finally hash out some of the debates that have been left open!
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1310633_tn?1289313024
BOMB, BOMB, BOMB, BOMB
AIRPORT, AIRPORT, AIRPORT, AIRPORT
NYC, NYC, NYC, NYC, NYC, NYC
TERROR, TERROR, TERROR, TERROR, TERROR
FUZZY BUNNY SLIPPERS, FUZZY BUNNY SLIPPERS,FUZZY BUNNY SLIPPERS,FUZZY BUNNY SLIPPERS

(Had to get those in, just in case the NSA is watching CE!!!)
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Avatar_m_tn
"It's nothing more than 'meta data'. In layman's terms, and in the context of this topic/article/subject... all they're collecting is PHONE NUMBERS."

"Not people's names
Not people's locations
Not people's usage "

Thank goodness they are only taking meta data!  Whew!!!!  Wait a second.  If they have your number, they also have your name, location and can figure out ones usage.  Oh well, not to worry.  We need this type of baby sitting.
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1310633_tn?1289313024
How is the NSA supposed to protect us, exactly, if we don't give them permission to protect us? They're collecting this data for their health, they're collecting it in order to protect us from threat (both domestic in origin, and otherwise).

I'm sorry, but if you want a safe & secure country and no domestic acts of terror, then you've GOT to give up some privacy. If you want 100% of your privacy, then expect there to be terror activities within the country.

You can't have security without giving up SOME privacy. Just HOW do you expect the NSA and HomelandSecurity to protect you (X 400 Million)? These guys are dammed if they do, and dammed if they don't.

The first bomb that goes off in Time-Square...
We'll say: "You didn't do enough"
NSA & HS will say: "But, but, you said you wanted your privacy"
We'll say: "Well yes, we want our privacy, but we want you to protect all 400 million of us as well"
NSA & HS will say: "Oh, is that ALL you want us to do?!? Well let us just wave our magic anti-terror wand, and make that happen for ya!"

Anyone?
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163305_tn?1333672171
I think the collecting of all this data is some kind of paranoid craziness. Is this why they keep saying many of our leaders are sociopaths ??
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1310633_tn?1289313024
If it's legal for the government to collect massive amounts of citizens private communications data indiscriminately, then what does "private" actually mean?
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Avatar_m_tn
"The first bomb that goes off in Time-Square...
We'll say: "You didn't do enough"
NSA & HS will say: "But, but, you said you wanted your privacy"
We'll say: "Well yes, we want our privacy, but we want you to protect all 400 million of us as well"
NSA & HS will say: "Oh, is that ALL you want us to do?!? Well let us just wave our magic anti-terror wand, and make that happen for ya!"

Bomb goes off in Time Square, I'd say....
me:  Imagine that... all of these "security measures" and the **** still happens.

NSA will say:NSA & HS will say: "But, but, you said you wanted your privacy"

Me:  We do want our privacy.  You stealing our information isn't helping if this stuff keeps happening.... besides, you guys new about all of the terrorists on 9-11.  It came out that you lost track of some of them....  you're not building a lot of confidence in me by stealing my information.  You know where to find me, you have my information.... solve any capers yet?

Me:  I don't expect you to protect all of us.  I don't expect you to protect me.  I certainly don't know how you're protecting me by stealing all of my information.  In fact, I'm curious as to how you are protecting me?  CAn you help me with that one?
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Avatar_f_tn
and then, for the rest of the story. After this one judge said what he did in the article above, there was another federal judge said it is constitutional, no he didnt say it is likely constitutional, he said it was constitutional, joining the 15 previous judges that said the same thing before the one in this article. Looks like its going to the supreme court who will likely decide its not constitutional because its a right leaning majority? LOL,

Have we found out who was actually hurt in any way from all this information gathering yet?
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Avatar_m_tn
Nobody appears to be hurt.  I've got nothing to hide, so I really don't care what they look at in regards to me and my life.  But, how much mayhem are you going to stop by looking at me?  

You see, I see terrorists as a bit more smart than we are giving them credit for.  Take 9-11 and "known affiliates" of terror groups that we just simply lost track of.  If they can disappear, learn to fly jets, reappear and commit the largest terrorist act on American soil.... I'm pretty sure its going to happen again.  Take the marathon bombing.... these were idiots that managed to sneak in a couple of bombs.  If they had their way, there would have been much more chaos and destruction than there were.

If you see what they are doing as protecting you, good for you.  I'd just like to point out that the government has been "protecting" you all along.......
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