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KY bill wants drug testing for welfare recipients
http://www.14wfie.com/story/13854384/ky
KY bill wants drug testing for welfare recipients
Posted by Rachel Folz - email
FRANKFORT, Ky. (AP) - A Kentucky lawmaker has proposed a bill that would require random drug testing for adults who get food stamps, Medicaid or other state assistance.
Under the bill filed by state Rep. Lonnie Napier, R-Lancaster, those who fail the drug test would lose their benefits.
They could get it back by passing a drug test at a later date determined by the state.
The proposal has the backing of House Speaker Greg Stumbo, D-Prestonsburg, but critics say it would stigmatize welfare recipients and possibly harm their innocent children.
Napier says the goal "is to get people off drugs."
He says there would be exceptions for those who have a prescription for a controlled substance.
--- Information from: Lexington Herald-Leader, http://www.kentucky.com
(Copyright 2011 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
KY bill wants drug testing for welfare recipients
Posted by Rachel Folz - email
FRANKFORT, Ky. (AP) - A Kentucky lawmaker has proposed a bill that would require random drug testing for adults who get food stamps, Medicaid or other state assistance.
Under the bill filed by state Rep. Lonnie Napier, R-Lancaster, those who fail the drug test would lose their benefits.
They could get it back by passing a drug test at a later date determined by the state.
The proposal has the backing of House Speaker Greg Stumbo, D-Prestonsburg, but critics say it would stigmatize welfare recipients and possibly harm their innocent children.
Napier says the goal "is to get people off drugs."
He says there would be exceptions for those who have a prescription for a controlled substance.
--- Information from: Lexington Herald-Leader, http://www.kentucky.com
(Copyright 2011 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
I just heard this on the t.v. and found it pretty accurate and appropriate for this current conversation. "The only thing that stops a bad idea is a good idea. The only thing that stops a good idea is a bad idea."
With welfare, we are continuing down the road of bad ideas. It's time for a good idea.... just one.
With welfare, we are continuing down the road of bad ideas. It's time for a good idea.... just one.
I'll say this about Clinton. First off, I am not a big fan but he did something with welfare reform that worked a bit.... I saw it in action. My mother was an elementary school teacher. Across from the school was a government subsidized housing outfit, basically apartments or in some cases condominiums.
You could drive by the neighborhood any time of day (a bit risky to do at night) and watch drug deals being conducted by able bodied individuals who where otherwise sitting around and drinking 40 ouncers of malt liquor. On special occasions there would be a shooting and the school would have to be on lock down.
During the Clinton administration, (dont know if we credit him or whom) they basically said that everyone in this housing complex needed to go to the free clinic and be checked out by a doctor.... gave them like 60 days to comply. They were supposed to get a complete physical, and if deemed able to go to work, they were required to go back to work. In less than 6 months, the housing unit was vacant and the lower middle class neighborhood returned to the people..... it can work.
Obviously some of these people remained under the radar so to speak, and obviously some of these people were well within the rights of receiving assistance. The clincher is, it did clean up a bit of abuse and saved who knows how much money.
Any number of ideas can be implemented, but the fact remains. What is currently in place is dysfunctional at best and lies completely along the lines of abysmal..... it's failing further by the day.
You could drive by the neighborhood any time of day (a bit risky to do at night) and watch drug deals being conducted by able bodied individuals who where otherwise sitting around and drinking 40 ouncers of malt liquor. On special occasions there would be a shooting and the school would have to be on lock down.
During the Clinton administration, (dont know if we credit him or whom) they basically said that everyone in this housing complex needed to go to the free clinic and be checked out by a doctor.... gave them like 60 days to comply. They were supposed to get a complete physical, and if deemed able to go to work, they were required to go back to work. In less than 6 months, the housing unit was vacant and the lower middle class neighborhood returned to the people..... it can work.
Obviously some of these people remained under the radar so to speak, and obviously some of these people were well within the rights of receiving assistance. The clincher is, it did clean up a bit of abuse and saved who knows how much money.
Any number of ideas can be implemented, but the fact remains. What is currently in place is dysfunctional at best and lies completely along the lines of abysmal..... it's failing further by the day.
When I was growing up we did not have welfare meli. There were several of us kids of all different ages. I have sisters that are more like mothers to me. My mother worked for keebler, 2nd shift for 35 years. My dad worked various jobs as well but had medical problems off and on with his heart. The insurance was provided thru my mothers work, and I cannot ever remember going to the doctor except to get shots for school. They lived thru the depression and my dad fought in world war 2. We built the house we lived in little by little over the years. I slept upstairs with no heat except an army blanket and the rafters of the ceiling right above my head. We had well water, my older sisters were not allowed to go to school because they had to get a job and help take care of family. We had a garden and we all worked in it and the yard and pouring the sidewalks etc. We were so poor that we took homemade bisquits with butter and sugar on them wrapped in newspaper with twine wrapped around them and we got 2 cents each for our milk. Never had a new dress, or a new pair of shoes for that matter and never got to go to a school game , much less participate because we could not afford the fees and had no transportation anyway, and the parents never attended a meeting with the teacher and if they had to, it was cause one of us was in trouble and that was not good. If we got into trouble at school thn we got to lok forward to corporal punishment at home, I think they call that abuse now? We had to be home after school to help with the younger ones and do the laundry, take care of the house, fix dinner, do ironng etc, so the parents could work. Those of us in school were expected to carry a B or C average regardless of what we had to do besides homework. Forward to years later. The difference between that time and now? Pride..... God forbid you accept help from anyone. It was good to offer help but very downgrading back then to accept any.
But I will say this much. Until you walk a mile in someone elses shoes, you know not what your talking about. It is all speculation. We have people that abuse the system and it makes me mad too. But if we have to quit helping those in need because of the ones that scam, what does that say about us as a nation. Tweek the system is what we need. I have seen people get divorced cause they knew welfare would take care of them, and I have seen first hand an elderly lady on social security eating cat food cause it was the only thing she could afford. There really has to be a solution in there somewhere without throwing the baby out with the bath water. Who knows what the solution is.
But I will say this much. Until you walk a mile in someone elses shoes, you know not what your talking about. It is all speculation. We have people that abuse the system and it makes me mad too. But if we have to quit helping those in need because of the ones that scam, what does that say about us as a nation. Tweek the system is what we need. I have seen people get divorced cause they knew welfare would take care of them, and I have seen first hand an elderly lady on social security eating cat food cause it was the only thing she could afford. There really has to be a solution in there somewhere without throwing the baby out with the bath water. Who knows what the solution is.
I too have travelled fairly extensively and spent time in many third world countries. One of the things that has always stood out to me in these countries is the way people look out for each other. Communities stick together and help each other as much as possible. I often think they know things we just don't. They understand compassion and caring for each other in a way that those of us in wealthier countries dont. They also tend to have two "classes" (I hate that word)..the very wealthy and the very poor. However, look how many die there due to intense poverty. Thank God we don't have that here for the most part, although many living on the streets might argue that fact. And the reason we don't have that kind of intense poverty is because of social programs. We won't allow our citizens to get to that level. Children dying because they have no access to medical care or even basic vaccines. However, that is the way of a truly capitilistic society, and I am sure if you think it through you would agree that is not how you want the poorest in our countries to live. I know I don't.
Again, I am all for reform, and am the first to admit that there are less then stellar citizens taking welfare. However, there are less then stellar citizens in all walks of life. The only difference is poverty. For those that are scamming...trust me, I have and would again, turn them in. No qualms about it. I just think that your hard line is a bit to harsh. You cannot paint a group of people with the same paintbrush. Every one is an individual, and their circumstances and stories are varied. We never know what is truly going on until we take the time to know someone. If people really want to help, become a big brother or sister, become part of a mentoring program, there are a multitude of things that can be done. If someone is cheating the system, and you know it, document it and turn them in. But it is wrong to assume. You truly do not know unless you know.
Again, I am all for reform, and am the first to admit that there are less then stellar citizens taking welfare. However, there are less then stellar citizens in all walks of life. The only difference is poverty. For those that are scamming...trust me, I have and would again, turn them in. No qualms about it. I just think that your hard line is a bit to harsh. You cannot paint a group of people with the same paintbrush. Every one is an individual, and their circumstances and stories are varied. We never know what is truly going on until we take the time to know someone. If people really want to help, become a big brother or sister, become part of a mentoring program, there are a multitude of things that can be done. If someone is cheating the system, and you know it, document it and turn them in. But it is wrong to assume. You truly do not know unless you know.
Maybe it is because I have traveled and lived in so many really poor countries.. our idea of poor is so different than theirs I have seen true poverty and most of what we consider poor here so much more then what they have. I also have the perspective of growing up a coal miners granddaughter. First generation and have seen struggle and people that will dig ditches instead of asking for a hand out. I was also in a marriage to an immigrant who did not speak the language and for 10 years he worked minimum wage jobs to support his family. When we had our first child I stayed home for 2 years and he worked 60+ hours a week at whatever he could find and we made do. No hand outs. I don't believe that all people that need help are bad. Heck the system was made to help those really in need but so many have made it their career. I think 6 months should be the max, or they need to have them put in hours of community service to receive assistance. There are some out thee that need it but before this economic crisis there were jobs galore (maybe they weren't the best jobs but beggers can't be choosers) and still the welfare office was full. I would also say if parents don't come to teacher conferences they shouldn't get assistance. I mean people have to do the minimum. I am all for helping the needy but I just feel giving them something for nothing is not the way. In order for them to feel pride they have to earn it... community service could be a way to make them feel they have earned it and take pride in themselves. We have a country full of immigrants who speak no english and they manage to work and raise families... I just don't understand why the people born here can't.
Thank you for your comment on the homeless man. We know that the vast majority of those who are completely homeless and on the streets suffer from mental health issues. I know it is typically blamed on drugs and alcohol, but that part usually comes after the fact...almost a self medication. We still seem to hold those that are mentally ill to a different standard then if they had a physical illness. Very sad. I have clients that are regularly called names, are spit on and basically treated like the scourge of society. They are human beings, but I guess being homeless makes some think its ok to abuse them. Makes me sick.
No, the system in the US and Canada are very very similar. Amounts are about the same. And I have to be honest, you are coming across as though all those needing help are con artists scamming the system. I agree some are, but absolutely do not agree that most are. It's the stories that stand out, of course, but does not constitute the majority. Nor are the majority on drugs. Most would like nothing more then to be off of the system, and certainly want more for their children. Sadly, so many have lost hope and don't see a way out. Once hope is lost it's tough. I am just asking that you put some thought into how you put that, and maybe research it a bit. I'm sorry it's what you see, but I promise you that for every scammer you see, there are 5 who truly do need the help they are getting, and are unbelievably ashamed of it because your words are the attitude of many. Poverty is real, and until it is properly addressed, welfare isn't going anywhere.
It's great that you love these kids and encourage them that they can be better. BUT you also make it seem like anyone needing help is a disgrace to the human race. Many people have lost jobs because of the economy, etc. This doesn't mean they are worthless. I know many poor families needing help and they are there for their children in school and at home. Many people work part time jobs because they can't find full time work. This doesn't make them lazy no good gold diggers getting a handout. You need to realize that not everyone can make it without some kind of help. Not everyone is some drugged out alcohol lowlife like you seem to make them out to be.
I do think the issue of anyone who is abusing a system meant for people in need should be addressed. They are doing better than they have in the past because they now have Food Stamps on a benefits card so that it cannot be used to purchase alcohol or the like whereas in the past Food Stamps used to be able to be sold and were used as a commodity where people bought things for other people they should not. I know because my mom worked as a teacher in the same area as well and was concerned about this. I also would think it was wrong that anyone would abuse the system because right now food pantries don't have enough food to give to people who are truly in need. Generally the HRA office is able to note and screen people out who are potentially abusing the system though. Income that is off the books can be detected in ways that people may not be aware of.
What I do think is wrong (and I am not speaking about particular people here but in general) is when people try to find blame but could help. Once I saw a man point at a homeless man as if to set an example and said "its his choice". I was very upset and I wanted to point out if I did not receive the treatment I did I might end up in that position and that it would be better off to try to help people out of that position than put them down. When I did benefits advocacy I did run into people who were attempting to use the system and I refused to help them (and would be legally obligated to). Further reform of the benefits system may be necessary but steps to insure people don't end up in that position to begin with are just as needed.
What I do think is wrong (and I am not speaking about particular people here but in general) is when people try to find blame but could help. Once I saw a man point at a homeless man as if to set an example and said "its his choice". I was very upset and I wanted to point out if I did not receive the treatment I did I might end up in that position and that it would be better off to try to help people out of that position than put them down. When I did benefits advocacy I did run into people who were attempting to use the system and I refused to help them (and would be legally obligated to). Further reform of the benefits system may be necessary but steps to insure people don't end up in that position to begin with are just as needed.
Let me tell you the kids are lucky to have me as a teacher. I don't teach them to continue the cycle to get a free ride I teach them that they can and will make it. The can and should do better and that the example they need to follow are the childhood dreams of a future and not the example of hopelessness many parents instill. Yes I am a conservative, I believe in helping but I also believe that we create a systems of learned helplessness and people begin to believe they CAN'T do it because they will be no better then those who came before. What is it about give a man a fish??? I believe that the welfare state has done much more harm to the black community than good. And let me tell you I am a GREAT teacher! not to toot my own horn but I LOVE those kids. I hug em everyday and tell them I will go to their graduation 10 years from now.. When they move I keep in touch by email and let them know that I BELIEVE in them. I teach them that the world is WAY bigger than their household. And that even though they may hate weekends because they have to be with their parents, they have the choice to go anywhere in life if they work hard. I don't work with the rich kids, I work with the poor kids, the abused kids. Last year 5 of my kids parents were in jail for abuse. I go to their basketball games and their programs. I go because their parents don't. A teacher at my school coaches them and the teachers go to the games because we know if we didn't then "our" team would have no one in the stands. So think what you may. I believe teaching honesty and integrity are a good thing. I believe that my kids in my room and the kids I have taught over the past 12 years will break the cycle because someone told them that there is more out there and that they are the only ones that can grab it. Think what you may but when is the last time you were in an inner city school? When was the last time you gave up your weekends to go to a child's game that you have no relation to?
ADGAL: I don't know if Canada is different but here. My friend had 3 little kids and her and got 650 a month food stamps. I spend 550 for me my dh, teenage daughter and 8 year old and a baby. She got way more than she needed and bought food for her mom and sister with it. I see the people in line paying with food stamps, I see what they wear and what they drive. I know which parents in my class are on free lunch and breakfast and what they drive, their cell phone number and hear about the big screen tv they got on black friday. These are people scamming the system. I know some need help. Really need it. But the majority are scamming the system
ADGAL: I don't know if Canada is different but here. My friend had 3 little kids and her and got 650 a month food stamps. I spend 550 for me my dh, teenage daughter and 8 year old and a baby. She got way more than she needed and bought food for her mom and sister with it. I see the people in line paying with food stamps, I see what they wear and what they drive. I know which parents in my class are on free lunch and breakfast and what they drive, their cell phone number and hear about the big screen tv they got on black friday. These are people scamming the system. I know some need help. Really need it. But the majority are scamming the system
It worries me to have you be a teacher in a class room. I certainly hope you aren't teaching your students all this hatred. Hopefully you never fall on hard times and require any kind of help.
That is exactly what needs to be happening. You are exactly right. Many of these folks need external motivation though, sadly not everyone has what it takes on the inside. I think a feeling of hopelessness takes over, then almost an acceptance of this being their lot in life. And that is truly sad. Mentoring programs and such can go a very long way. Giving them the extra push they need to get there. It's amazing what that can do. But most of the folks I know feel like losers, so therefor that's what they become. They just don't see a way out. And that is what is broken. Just suddenly cutting off isn't the answer, but showing the way out is. Making it not to easy to stay on without being cruel about it. The answer is there, we just need to dig a bit deeper to find it.
Look, this conversation is just encompassing one small part of whats really wrong with the subject. What we basically ranting upon is drug use/abuse and alcohol use/abuse and how we feel it affects the system.
A hard line would fix that and the bigger problem with welfare today is illegal immigration. Now before anyone starts to whine, I am not talking about only the illegal Mexican population. In my sleepy little mountain town, we have a bunch of illegal europeans that are focused on what the system can provide for them.....
I mentioned somewhere above (or perhaps in another thread) that in Los Angeles County alone, the annual cost of welfare is over $600,000,000. Yeah, 600 million and thats just one county. (Info was pulled from a California State Budget)
The same with other political issues, lawyers are involved. When that happens, you're bound to end up with a soup sandwich and are forced to eat it on a merry-go-round spinning at about 100mph.... this is precisely why nothing can get done. Too many people want to help too many people, and the reasoning behind that grows daily. (All you have to do to qualify for welfare is show up in America) The system is broke because of that reasoning..... more people collecting from a system than are paying into it. Worse than that, there are more people collecting from the system now that have never, ever paid into the system..... and we allow it. WE just allow it.
What American government needs to understand is, IF YOU AINT GOT IT, YOU CANNOT OFFER IT!!!! And this isn't even just referring to welfare. Look how much money is wasted on the U.N. (What do we get out of that anyhow, and why are we the largest contributor???)
Take the drugs and alcohol out of this conversation and it only gets worse. We have to stop doing feel good things. We cannot give things we do not have. We need to find ways to cover our ends, and our elected officials aren't doing that. As individuals, we know we cannot spend more money than we make.... as a country we fail to see that!
Government and all of its programs are based on economics and there isn't a half dozen people in government that know a thing about economics..... Spend, spend, spend, spend....we're out of money.... spend some more, spend, spend, spend.... can't anyone else see this???? And its all of government! Not just the left, its all of government. G.W was a big spender all the while claiming to want less government. (Something to back that up is the government debt ceiling has been raised every single year since 1980. That means at least Carter, Reagan twice, Bush Sr. twice, Clinton twice, W. twice and now Obama.... it's all of em people, don't be fooled)
A hard line would fix that and the bigger problem with welfare today is illegal immigration. Now before anyone starts to whine, I am not talking about only the illegal Mexican population. In my sleepy little mountain town, we have a bunch of illegal europeans that are focused on what the system can provide for them.....
I mentioned somewhere above (or perhaps in another thread) that in Los Angeles County alone, the annual cost of welfare is over $600,000,000. Yeah, 600 million and thats just one county. (Info was pulled from a California State Budget)
The same with other political issues, lawyers are involved. When that happens, you're bound to end up with a soup sandwich and are forced to eat it on a merry-go-round spinning at about 100mph.... this is precisely why nothing can get done. Too many people want to help too many people, and the reasoning behind that grows daily. (All you have to do to qualify for welfare is show up in America) The system is broke because of that reasoning..... more people collecting from a system than are paying into it. Worse than that, there are more people collecting from the system now that have never, ever paid into the system..... and we allow it. WE just allow it.
What American government needs to understand is, IF YOU AINT GOT IT, YOU CANNOT OFFER IT!!!! And this isn't even just referring to welfare. Look how much money is wasted on the U.N. (What do we get out of that anyhow, and why are we the largest contributor???)
Take the drugs and alcohol out of this conversation and it only gets worse. We have to stop doing feel good things. We cannot give things we do not have. We need to find ways to cover our ends, and our elected officials aren't doing that. As individuals, we know we cannot spend more money than we make.... as a country we fail to see that!
Government and all of its programs are based on economics and there isn't a half dozen people in government that know a thing about economics..... Spend, spend, spend, spend....we're out of money.... spend some more, spend, spend, spend.... can't anyone else see this???? And its all of government! Not just the left, its all of government. G.W was a big spender all the while claiming to want less government. (Something to back that up is the government debt ceiling has been raised every single year since 1980. That means at least Carter, Reagan twice, Bush Sr. twice, Clinton twice, W. twice and now Obama.... it's all of em people, don't be fooled)
from what i seen, alot of ppl didnt even need the welfare money they got (amount depends on how many kids, california been the most missouri been the least) because housing or HUD paid the rent , and even sent extra check for electricity if woman could prove no income, thats right , even on top of tanf money, most women we knew had a man in their lives that sold drugs and did under the table work, food stamps were their for food, and the ppl that didn;t have their hustle down would trade their stamps for cash or other things.
everyone i knew felt they were gonna try and get whatever they could cuz thats wat their parents and grandparents had done, its just how ppl live in the neighborhood they feel its their "entitlement" .
Now most of this was during clinton years lots of girls i know were getting free daycare and goin to school, as there was alot more programs then and attitudes were different towards the poor, (very few of those girls i knew actually did anything with the schooling, just a way to get away from kids and make freinds and keep their welfare.
now when contract with america came and the repubs took over (94) there waqs all this talk about 5 year lifetime limit on welfare, Ha! never seen that yet, but after clintons 8 was up it did get harder welfare payments got lower etc. jail food and treatment got alot worse private companies took over commisaries and phones , medications hard to get some states charge up to 67$ a day each day served after conviction etc, The pendulum has definitly swung the other way!
the biggest scam i see now is SSI and SSD i mean i know atleast 10 ppl that could work all day long but get a check every month from social security, then they brag about it, it is a joke, it is the new welfare, some are supposed to get a review every 2 years to see if they can work , but they dont have the resources to to do the reviews, now I know some are legit but i know for a fact cases that are not!
to answer your questions tarnish , i had to go do some time wen he was 15 and he started hangin out at a youth christian place, so maby it was havin a little jesus in his life!
teko,. the answer to your question is simple earned income credit, we only made about 27,000 on paper w/family of four means 0 fed tax paid and usually about 5000$ back all at once! and most like me consider that just a reward for being poor all year, just the plain simple truth and you can buy into whatever you wnt cuz this is america,
everyone i knew felt they were gonna try and get whatever they could cuz thats wat their parents and grandparents had done, its just how ppl live in the neighborhood they feel its their "entitlement" .
Now most of this was during clinton years lots of girls i know were getting free daycare and goin to school, as there was alot more programs then and attitudes were different towards the poor, (very few of those girls i knew actually did anything with the schooling, just a way to get away from kids and make freinds and keep their welfare.
now when contract with america came and the repubs took over (94) there waqs all this talk about 5 year lifetime limit on welfare, Ha! never seen that yet, but after clintons 8 was up it did get harder welfare payments got lower etc. jail food and treatment got alot worse private companies took over commisaries and phones , medications hard to get some states charge up to 67$ a day each day served after conviction etc, The pendulum has definitly swung the other way!
the biggest scam i see now is SSI and SSD i mean i know atleast 10 ppl that could work all day long but get a check every month from social security, then they brag about it, it is a joke, it is the new welfare, some are supposed to get a review every 2 years to see if they can work , but they dont have the resources to to do the reviews, now I know some are legit but i know for a fact cases that are not!
to answer your questions tarnish , i had to go do some time wen he was 15 and he started hangin out at a youth christian place, so maby it was havin a little jesus in his life!
teko,. the answer to your question is simple earned income credit, we only made about 27,000 on paper w/family of four means 0 fed tax paid and usually about 5000$ back all at once! and most like me consider that just a reward for being poor all year, just the plain simple truth and you can buy into whatever you wnt cuz this is america,
Used to be when you were born into poor or had a very hard upbringing, you did your best to dig out, not continue the pattern. Look at Oprah, she used to be poor, on welfare and abused to boot. Look at her now! I dont buy the I was born in it or raised in it theme at all. We all have choices at some point in life dont we? It is not a shame to be on welfare and need help or to be an addict even. The shame comes from staying in that spot. We only know what our individual experiences are with people on assistance or even on drugs. I believe they all differ based on where we come from in life.
But I got a question I need answered as well. I know 2 people who have been divorced, have children, get food stamps but carry a part time job. How is it that those two people are getting back 7 thousand dollars in taxes when neither paid in more than 800 all year long? No freaking wonder were broke!
But I got a question I need answered as well. I know 2 people who have been divorced, have children, get food stamps but carry a part time job. How is it that those two people are getting back 7 thousand dollars in taxes when neither paid in more than 800 all year long? No freaking wonder were broke!
I have to ask what role you played with helping your son brake the cycle? Did you care when he was in school and try and tell him there was a better life and encorage him to study or did he pull himself up by the bootstraps?
I feel i should also give a bright spot as it is reality, one of the last spots i was in my oldest son is still there (southern MN. ) he owns a nice home has a good job , bachelors degree (football scholarship) wife is a lpn. they have a 3 year old boy and she is expecting a girl soon, hopefully we have br5oken the cycle!!!
The sad part for me is I have warrents there as alcoholics with transient tendacies seem to do so i have yet to meet my g-son and probably never will, the biggest thing to deal w/ is wife not being to be there for g-childreen and it being my fault, hardest thing ive ever dealt with but i guess from wat the jesus ppl say on here i'm gettin wat i deserve, and believe me its Hard.
Things and cycles can be broken thogh, i always taught this son right from wrong and he gre up in the "neighborhood", he knew wat was goin on , even know we moved through 7 states as he was growin up.
All my point is cycles can be broken!
The sad part for me is I have warrents there as alcoholics with transient tendacies seem to do so i have yet to meet my g-son and probably never will, the biggest thing to deal w/ is wife not being to be there for g-childreen and it being my fault, hardest thing ive ever dealt with but i guess from wat the jesus ppl say on here i'm gettin wat i deserve, and believe me its Hard.
Things and cycles can be broken thogh, i always taught this son right from wrong and he gre up in the "neighborhood", he knew wat was goin on , even know we moved through 7 states as he was growin up.
All my point is cycles can be broken!
well since we are goin down this road , let me tell ya how it is, where i grewup inner urban city in oregon, i was a minority (i am white caucasion). I don't know how this is ghonna sound but its been my reality. where i grew up entitlements were a given, generations hav been on them, most ppl had "housing" that paid there rent, food stamps were 50 cents on the dollar and the tanf check went to sh*t for the kids, and the ol man brought in the money to drink and smoke weed, (ofcourse most of us moved on to stronger sh*t, specially after we became growers.)
There has always been and will always be a black market, even after they went to the card for F.S. ppl just sold there card for same 50 cent on the dollar, what u guys dont understand is that person buyin primerib and lobstertail w/card might hav 5 of those cards to use, just from tradin some weed or cash at half price,(been there)when u start out with nuthin you try real hard to get Sumpthin, (survival).
NOw there is quite a drawback to this as I know I learned ,, NEVER being a normal person with credit , doin time in many jails not havin drivers licence for 20 years plus the emotianal impact of that shame, then when your in your 40's tryin to start doin the right things and nuthin works out, ya just feel like ya dug a whole you cannot get out of, suicide looks good, but i am sorry i digress,,,,,,
I guess wat i am tryin to say here is should ppl scam entitlements HELL NO does it happen HELL YESS, there is a black market that i think alot of the middle class ppl on here know nuthin about ,, does it make it right , ofcourse not, but is it gonna stop no!. and if you really think that takin the kids away and makin it hard for their bio parents is gonna fix the problems ,HA!!!! Guess wat I was one of those kids born in 66 to a mother to busy ridin on the back of a gypsy jokers harley, and thinkin of her self, thinkin her kid would get a better life out of waverly childrens home, obvisouly wen i finally got "picked " in 68, by 78 wen i was on the street the cycle had repeated itself...
There has always been and will always be a black market, even after they went to the card for F.S. ppl just sold there card for same 50 cent on the dollar, what u guys dont understand is that person buyin primerib and lobstertail w/card might hav 5 of those cards to use, just from tradin some weed or cash at half price,(been there)when u start out with nuthin you try real hard to get Sumpthin, (survival).
NOw there is quite a drawback to this as I know I learned ,, NEVER being a normal person with credit , doin time in many jails not havin drivers licence for 20 years plus the emotianal impact of that shame, then when your in your 40's tryin to start doin the right things and nuthin works out, ya just feel like ya dug a whole you cannot get out of, suicide looks good, but i am sorry i digress,,,,,,
I guess wat i am tryin to say here is should ppl scam entitlements HELL NO does it happen HELL YESS, there is a black market that i think alot of the middle class ppl on here know nuthin about ,, does it make it right , ofcourse not, but is it gonna stop no!. and if you really think that takin the kids away and makin it hard for their bio parents is gonna fix the problems ,HA!!!! Guess wat I was one of those kids born in 66 to a mother to busy ridin on the back of a gypsy jokers harley, and thinkin of her self, thinkin her kid would get a better life out of waverly childrens home, obvisouly wen i finally got "picked " in 68, by 78 wen i was on the street the cycle had repeated itself...
And one last question...I keep hearing comments about how good "they" have it on welfare. How many here besides me have actually been on welfare? I can tell you we didnt' have a single luxery..not one. Clothes were second hand, everything was budgeted. And we took the bus. Have it so good on welfare..what a joke that is.
Well, Mel, as much as I love you, yes, in this case I can say you are way off base. This IS what I do for a living..day in and day out. And yes, it works the same in Canada as it does in the US.
Most welfare recipients are not drug addicts. That is false. And they certainly do not get enough to be eating prime rib, etc. The overwhelming majority also rely on food banks, or food stamps, etc. to feed their children period. Yeah, it might be better then rice and beans, but I can assure you it is not Prime Rib. They are certainly not getting rich. And as for not naming fathers on birth certificates...what about those (and yes, there are an awful lot of them) who are running from abusive situations, etc.
Here is where I get frustrated with some of the attitudes I see towards those receiving welfare. Poverty is no party. I have lived it and I work with it every single day. Are there some that abuse the system? Of course there are, and steps need to be taken to curb that. No argument from me. But it is beginning to sound like some think that these folks want to live this way...that they are just lazy bums living off of the system. That is absolutely not the case. Trust me, the majority I know would take a job in a heartbeat and would much rather work and pay their own way. So while yes, some will just milk the system and don't want things to change, that is absolutely 100% not the majority. Yep, everyone knows someone who has abused it, but that still does not speak for the majority. So perhaps it might be better to quit addressing welfare recipients as a group, and look at people as the individuals that they are. Because everyone is different, and I can tell you, some of these folks are the strongest, most honest people I know. Believe it or not, they are just like everyone else in the world...good, bad, and average. Not a huge group of lazy bums.
Most welfare recipients are not drug addicts. That is false. And they certainly do not get enough to be eating prime rib, etc. The overwhelming majority also rely on food banks, or food stamps, etc. to feed their children period. Yeah, it might be better then rice and beans, but I can assure you it is not Prime Rib. They are certainly not getting rich. And as for not naming fathers on birth certificates...what about those (and yes, there are an awful lot of them) who are running from abusive situations, etc.
Here is where I get frustrated with some of the attitudes I see towards those receiving welfare. Poverty is no party. I have lived it and I work with it every single day. Are there some that abuse the system? Of course there are, and steps need to be taken to curb that. No argument from me. But it is beginning to sound like some think that these folks want to live this way...that they are just lazy bums living off of the system. That is absolutely not the case. Trust me, the majority I know would take a job in a heartbeat and would much rather work and pay their own way. So while yes, some will just milk the system and don't want things to change, that is absolutely 100% not the majority. Yep, everyone knows someone who has abused it, but that still does not speak for the majority. So perhaps it might be better to quit addressing welfare recipients as a group, and look at people as the individuals that they are. Because everyone is different, and I can tell you, some of these folks are the strongest, most honest people I know. Believe it or not, they are just like everyone else in the world...good, bad, and average. Not a huge group of lazy bums.
I couldn't care less if they use drugs I just don't want them to do it on my dime. I know a ton of people on welfare use drugs and I am sick of spending my money on them. They can take a test there are very easy ones to take that you buy in the store. In oregon the bill they are trying to pass would require them to pay for the test. No it wont catch 100% but some is better than none. Anyway to get people off the public dole is fine with me. I think they should also not give support unless a Father can be named. Many leave him off the birth certificate solely for the purpose of not claiming his income. Also if you are on welfare and have another child you should get NO increase in support. They are costing the public money by being on welfare and then costing it again by supporting the drug culture and all the crime that entails which results in police activity and jail costs. I would love to eliminate it all together and say if people need food they would need to come in and get a standard basket with rice and beans. I see them buying prime steaks in the store. They spend way more than they need. I budget and buy store brands and many of them don't even look at the price of things they just buy whatever they feel like eating. We give them no reason to get off welfare since they have it so good on it. Don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about because I have seen the abuse in the families of kids in my school. They are on Free lunch, and breakfast, get food stamps and monetary help and have computers with internet, cell phones, cars that are better then mine at times. So many are scamming the system, it is draining us dry.
i wasn't going to post here anymore but after reading this whole debate i just can't take it anymore, as this debate is usless and so naive , first of all the only time a person can be in the room where a urinalysis is being performed (pee'n in the cup) under law is after you have been Convicted of a crime and you are on parole or probation, (then they can watch you) otherwise (for jobs or DHS welfare) all they can do is make you empty your pockets and lift your pant legs up , so all it takes is a 20$ bottle of synthetic pee (that comes with 6 hr. warmer keeps it btween 90 & 100 has the thermometer right on the bottle so u know) that u keep right in your panties or shorts.
There is also products that are powders that heat up when mixed with distilled water that are synthetic pee that mimic female or male pee, the ppl that carry these are mostly hazmat drivers or crane operators , that get randoms. so all they do is carry a bit of distilled water all the time.
The reason I know this is because I have seen this go on since they started this thing called drug testing, which is a big f'n joke, all it does is give companys a lower insurance rate under the guise of "drug free work places" , I have worked many jobs in many states, from factory to steel mill to industrial gas, and believe me there are no drug free work places.
most ppl I know were covering evening pot use, some on the job to though, but i have also seen hazmat driver's and others in real dangerous jobs covering speed use, and most currently oxy, and opiate use, alot of it had to do with geagraphics, and the changing times, (oxy is overtaking speed it seems.)
My point is its to easy to pass urine drug test, and does anybody really think they are going to make welfare moms take blood tests for anything other than post pregnancy test w/out evidence of drug usage.
There is also products that are powders that heat up when mixed with distilled water that are synthetic pee that mimic female or male pee, the ppl that carry these are mostly hazmat drivers or crane operators , that get randoms. so all they do is carry a bit of distilled water all the time.
The reason I know this is because I have seen this go on since they started this thing called drug testing, which is a big f'n joke, all it does is give companys a lower insurance rate under the guise of "drug free work places" , I have worked many jobs in many states, from factory to steel mill to industrial gas, and believe me there are no drug free work places.
most ppl I know were covering evening pot use, some on the job to though, but i have also seen hazmat driver's and others in real dangerous jobs covering speed use, and most currently oxy, and opiate use, alot of it had to do with geagraphics, and the changing times, (oxy is overtaking speed it seems.)
My point is its to easy to pass urine drug test, and does anybody really think they are going to make welfare moms take blood tests for anything other than post pregnancy test w/out evidence of drug usage.
But isn't it a bit illogical to make a move that costs the taxpayers more money? Would you not prefer a solution that actually saved money? Or is it just that all drug users are evil people and should go to jail? Sorry, but this doesn't make any sense to me. I can't figure out what part is bothering people. To me, its the strain on the system, so I would like a solution that gets people off without it costing more. But I am beginning to sense that it's more about people using drugs..if so, that's sad. Addiction is a horrible illness and I would not wish it on anyone. I am sure all the wonderful people over on the addiction communities who are fighting so very hard to beat it might feel a bit hurt by some of this. Sorry, but had to say that. Addicts are still real live human beings, and I think only those who are perfect can judge them.
At the end of the day, just cutting anyone off of welfare is not saving a dime. I am not certain why that is so hard to get across.
At the end of the day, just cutting anyone off of welfare is not saving a dime. I am not certain why that is so hard to get across.
They want to do it here and make the people pay for their own tests! I LOVE IT!! I don't want my hard earned money going to people who sit around and abuse the system. They are paying to create more of the drug culture in our town. Screw them. If they are on drugs take their kids. Put em in jail. whatever... maybe it will make people stay off em if they want a free ride. Or not apply if they are going to use drugs. So many are ripping off the system anyway and dont even need the help just don't put dads on birth certificates and stuff.. If they really need the help they should not have enough money to buy drugs anyway.
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