Marjuana legalization ? What do you think ?

Can Colorado create a legal market for marijuana?

Back in 1932, Colorado voters took to the polls and approved Amendment 7, a bill that legalized alcohol consumption and ended prohibition.

Now, 80 years later, the state is  weighing Amendment 64, a voter proposition that would similarly legalize marijuana.

Colorado voters aren’t alone: Oregon and Washington will take up similar measures on Tuesday. If any of the three voter propositions succeed, they would put the an American state left of the Netherlands on marijuana policy – and upend the economics of a contraband market.

“It would be unprecedented,” said Jonathan Caulkins, a professor at Carnegie Mellon University whose research focuses on marijuana legalization. “If one of these things passed, the United States would be right out there in the front of the liberal reform movement for drugs.”

This isn’t the first time that a marijuana legalization effort has landed on a state ballot. In 2010, a similar proposal landed on a California ballot. Proposition 19 would have legalized the purchase and consumption of marijuana in the state.

Proposition 19 failed by a seven-point margin. Legal marijuana advocates say they learned lessons from that first state ballot, lessons that helped them land three new ballot initiatives in 2012.

“Proposition 19 definitely pushed the issue into the mainstream, and got people thinking about it,” said Morgan Fox, communications manager for the Marijuana Policy Project. “It taught us that the most effective message is one that shows prohibition doesn’t work, that it comes at a cost to communities and taxpayers.”

Seventeen states had efforts to land a marijuana legalization proposition on the ballot in 2012. Three of those – in Oregon, Washington and Colorado – succeeded.

In those states, both sides are now pitching voters on what it would mean to go beyond decriminalization. Marijuana sales and production would become a legal, regulated commodity.

“This is utterly unlike decriminalization,” Caulkins said. “This is legalizing personal consumption, but also setting up a scheme for a private marijuana sector [in the Washington and Colorado initiatives].”

They look to have some shot at success on Tuesday. A poll out Thursday, commissioned by a Seattle television station, found Washington voters to support legalization by a 19-point margin. A late October poll in Colorado saw the effort there to have 53 percent support and 43 percent opposition. More generally, Gallup polls have found national support for marijuana legalization to have steadily increased in recent decades. It hit a record high of 50 percent last October.

Supporters of marijuana legalization in Colorado have done what nearly every other politician has done this cycle: Focus on the positive economic impact of their proposal. Talk about small businesses. And above all, emphasize job creation.

“There are hundreds of thousands of jobs on the table, and a great deal of tax revenue,” said Tvert, co-director of the Colorado Campaign to Regulate Marijuana Like Alcohol. “It would take profits away from drug cartels and direct them toward legitimate, Colorado businesses.”

In Colorado, Amendment 64 would put an excise tax on marijuana products. The Colorado Center on Law and Policy estimates the law would generate $46 million in new revenue while reducing law enforcement spending by $16 million. The law would direct the legislature to send the revenue generated by the excise tax to local school districts.

“When we saw alcohol prohibition fall, states began to repeal it first,” Tvert said. “They saw it was problematic and wasn’t working. The federal government followed a few years later.”

Opponents of the Colorado initiative worry about what it would mean for one state to legalize marijuana while its neighbors maintain much stricter regulation.

“Colorado is a place that promotes families coming here, and going skiing on the mountains,” said Laura Chapin, communications director for No on 64. “Now you’re going to be the state with the big marijuana industry.”

While the Colorado Democratic Party has endorsed the measure, Gov. John Hickenlooper (D) opposes it.  ”Amendment 64 has the potential to increase the number of children using drugs and would detract from efforts to make Colorado the healthiest state in the nation,” he told the Denver Post in September. “It sends the wrong message to kids that drugs are okay.”

Chapin also raised numerous logistical issues with the Colorado legalization effort. For one, it’s a constitutional amendment: If there’s any problem with it, it would have to go back to voters for a change. The legislature’s hands would be tied.

Then there’s also the idea of the excise tax: The proposition would require the state legislature to pass a new fine on marijuana. Separate Colorado law, however, prohibits raising additional taxes without putting the issue to a statewide vote. “You cannot constitutionally require members of the legislature to vote for a tax in Colorado,” Chapin said.

The biggest logistical issue, however, is most likely how the federal government reacts. A state law legalizing marijuana would be preempted by federal laws that regulate the drug as an illegal substance.

The federal government would have to decide how aggressively, if at all, it would want to interfere with a state-level law.

“The next administration could essentially say, we’re not going to let this happen,” said Carnegie Mellon’s Caulkins. “Or they could take a position where they respect the voters. They could also just try to stop exports to other states, since you would have one place that becomes a lot more appealing place to do production.

While some have pushed Attorney General Eric Holder to take a solid position against the voter initiatives – a stance he took two years ago when the California amendment was on the ballot – he has not commented on the issue.

Tvert, in Colorado, is optimistic that they could have a positive working relationship with the federal government. The state recently established a regulatory system for medical marijuana, another law that conflicts with federal regulation. There, the Drug Enforcement Agency has essentially allowed medical sales to continue, albeit with some interference.

“The federal government has largely respected our state’s right to regulate and control the production and sale of medical marijuana,” he said. “They once did send letters to about 60 medical marijuana businesses, informing them that must relocate since they were within 1,000 feet of a school zone.”

Caulkins predicted that even one state legalizing marijuana would have dramatic effects on the drug’s national market, near certainly driving down prices as the intoxicant became more widely available.

“One of the things people don’t realize is that, in all likelihood, this will effect markets across the country,” he said. “Over five or so years, you’d expect this to start pushing prices down.”

States like Colorado and Washington would have the power to revoke licenses of those who transport marijuana across state lines. But as Caulkins pointed out, it’s a big challenge as there “aren’t walls between one state and another.”

Lower prices could stand to dramatically alter the marijuana market. If everyone can sell a cheap intoxicant, there’s a new premium on finding a niche market.

“If you end up in the situation where adding marijuana to a brownie is really cheap, like a penny or two, you could see someone capitalizing on that,” Caulkins said. “Maybe we’re not talking about Godiva Chocolates, but some enterprising business saying, ‘I can make more money getting people to spend $1 on a brownie than I can just selling marijuana.’”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/11/01/can-colorado-create-a-legal-market-for-marijuana/?wprss=rss_business

[brice1967]

I'm still for the legalization, even though I am not a consumer.  It's a faction of the drug war that we spend so much money on and we are not close to winning.  Something has to change.... either accept this and the revenue that the taxes will bring, or the plan of attack on the drug war.

[rivll]

Well, obviously I am all for it.
I am most interested in the decriminalization of marijuana.
It can be habit forming and misused like any drug, so I would think it should be regulated to some degree.

[Vance2335]

Think it's time the gloves come off and we target suppliers in South America with precision military strikes.

As for this law, we already have an issue with DWI's, don't need more people who are high driving around.

And weed is still considered a gateway drug, and I have seen that for my own eyes.

[specialmom]

Rats, I always stand alone on this issue here.  But I would never be for legalizing marijauna beyond medical use.  Ever.  I know that my opinion is certainly in the minority here and maybe I am all alone----  but luckily, there are many that do feel as I do that will hopefully stand together on this issue.  

[mikesimon]

Well, that's certainly a different approach.
Military strikes?
Yes, that sounds completely insane - so why not?

Mitt will probably implement it on DAY 1.

[MrsPincince]

All for it!

[rivll]

Military strikes???

ROFL

[specialmom]

In reading my above statement, one might think that I myself have been smoking MJ as it is jibberish like.  

Alone here in not wanting to legalize pot.  Not alone in America though.  Hoping that there are enough of us to keep the laws in place.  

[brice1967]

Respectfully, alcohol is also a gateway drug.  Not everyone who uses alcohol or marijuana goes on to try other drugs/narcotics.  Is it a problem for some?  Absolutely....  But there are people who are addicted to prescription drugs, there are people who drink cough syrup, there are people who huff paint and all of those are legal and regulated.

[MrsPincince]

LOL..No. All for Legalizing the ganja mon....lol

[hrsepwrguy]

The ballot language of the measure reads as follows:[4]

“  Shall there be an amendment to the Colorado constitution concerning marijuana, and, in connection therewith, providing for the regulation of marijuana; permitting a person twenty-one years of age or older to consume or possess limited amounts of marijuana; providing for the licensing of cultivation facilities, product manufacturing facilities, testing facilities, and retail stores; permitting local governments to regulate or prohibit such facilities; requiring the general assembly to enact an excise tax to be levied upon wholesale sales of marijuana; requiring that the first $40 million in revenue raised annually by such tax be credited to the public school capital construction assistance fund; and requiring the general assembly to enact legislation governing the cultivation, processing, and sale of industrial hemp?

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Colorado_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative,_Amendment_64_(2012)

[rivll]

Hi hrse
You live there, what do you think?
I think it is a great way to raise revenues for the State. Ppl smoke it anyway, why not regulate and tax it?
To me it is a no brainer, but I have been accused of being w/o one on more than one occasion. :)

[MrsPincince]

"I think it is a great way to raise revenues for the State. Ppl smoke it anyway, why not regulate and tax it?
To me it is a no brainer, but I have been accused of being w/o one on more than one occasion. :)"

HA!...DITTO!

[Vance2335]

I ask the people who dislike military strikes against an enemy who is poisining our citizens, what do you think we should do to help stop the producers? Stop the cartels?

[mikesimon]

Legalize the product.

[rivll]

No, grow it in America!

[Vance2335]

This is not just about weed, what about coke and herion? Legalize them too?

[rivll]

No. I believe those drugs truly destroy societies. I am not sure that addicts who do not turn to crime should go to prison over their addiction, though. It is like alcohol, in my opinion. Alcoholism does serious damage to individuals and families. Not sure if locking up an alcoholic is a good idea.
I don't know what should be done about serious addiction. To me it is an illness. Any criminal activity related to it should most assuredly be prosecuted,imo.

[margypops]

Although I agree with you Vance I doubt it will happen especially if the left get back  in office, with a President who has admitted to Pot smoking and cocaine sniffing.I am actually certain will not happen, this administration couldnt even use military force in any respect to save 4 Americans in Benghazi I doubt they will lose that cowardly instinct to blow up Pot fields.I notice a lack of discussion on the CE group about Benghazi ....?

[specialmom]

I personally believe in deterrents and jail time is fine with me if you break any law.  I don't want my sons to grow up in a country that says marijauna is okay and that it is against the law certainly sends the message that it isn't.

I think those who smoke should pay higher insurance premiums both health and life.  (which regarding life, they already do).  That is a deterrent to smoke.  I think it should be a crime to throw a butt on the street (my pet peeve).

Alcohol certainly is a huge issue.  I am very very thankful for drunk driving laws, disorderly conduct laws, etc.  I'd be in favor of taxing the poop out of alcohol and really, could care less if it goes away entirely.  It won't, I know.

And if my sons or husband become addicted to drugs, I'll use the laws to help them hit rock bottom so they want to get help.  

that is how I see it.  I was very close to an alcoholic and ONLY hitting bottom resonated to get help.  

[rivll]

We are not into provoking each other today, just a meeting of minds or not, so let's stay cool, Miss Margypops.

[rivll]

I see your point and though it helped me a lot when I was in pain and was far less toxic than any legal* drug available, there is definitely a down side and I wouldn't really encourage anyone to freely use it any more than I would encourage smoking or drinking.
* It was and is legal for me. I do believe it can be habit forming and pretty much gave it up when I was no longer in pain.
Saying it should be legal in my mind does not mean it should be readily available to anyone and everyone.

[margypops]

I was in fact responding to what Vance put on this thread put up by hrseprwguy....

[specialmom]

I agree with you rivll.  I think it should be legal for medical purposes but not for the general public.  :>)

[adgal]

I am pretty much pro decriminilization (which is not necessarily legaliziation) of all drugs.  My reasons are:
1. It's much tougher for folks to get help when they are afraid of being arrested
2. I don't feel any good is served by taking an addict and jailing them - it is a very high cost to the tax payer for housing them in jail, the police time and it just doesn't solve the problem

I do think that the time, money and resources would be better spent going after the dealers.  Putting an addict in prison just doesn't do anything.  It isn't solving the problem.  And just for the record, I am not nor have I ever been a drug user.  

Just my opinion.  I know that here in Canada marijuana is pretty much legal.  If you are caught with a small personal amount, they don't do a thing.  If you are caught with an amount a dealer might carry, you are in trouble.  I like it that way and feel it is a good direction to go in. Oh, and just like alcohol, it's a problem if you are caught underage.  It's been that way for a while now, and we have not seen increased usage.  Money is being spent on education (getting to kids when they are young) and rehabilitation.  I feel this is a much better use of financial resources.

[mikesimon]

"...I am actually certain will not happen, this administration couldnt even use military force in any respect to save 4 Americans in Benghazi I doubt they will lose that cowardly instinct to blow up Pot fields.I notice a lack of discussion on the CE group about Benghazi ....? ....."

You went way beyond the scope of Vance's comment.

You always pop in with this kind of prattle. I would love to hear that British accent of yours when you're waxing in-eloquently about this stuff.

[adgal]

I should also add....

Like any other black market type product, remove the criminal aspect for the user, your going to see the cost drop.  This makes it less attractive for dealers and would probably actually help decrease both distribution, and criminal activity around folks looking for the money to buy it.  Odd thinking I know, but it's what I believe.  

[orphanedhawk]

Where I lived people voted to have personal possession be the lowest police priority.
I pass people all the time smoking it. They aren't trying to get anyone else to smoke it. They aren't kids. They aren't being rude or disruptive. I passed two police cars on the same block as I smelled a some smoke. It isn't a problem.
In fact in our city it's been an economic boom.

Legalize it. It's much safer and saner than alcohol.

SM~ I know you'd like everyone to always remain straight and sober.
My experience traveling and  studying history has taught me that people in all cultures use something. Expecting society to be straight and narrow is not realistic. Individuals can choose to not imbibe of course. To me it's a matter of personal liberty. Remember the right to pursue happiness in our constitution ?

Fact: One pot arrest every 42 seconds.
How much resources are being wasted on this impossible witch hunt ? People aren't going to stop using it.
Our police should be dealing with violent crimes, not arresting people for smoking weed.

http://blog.sfgate.com/smellthetruth/2012/11/04/legalization-campaigns-fueled-by-new-fbi-stats-one-pot-arrest-in-america-every-42-seconds/

[specialmom]

I would rather not live in a society that says being high is okay.  I don't much care for seeing someone drunk either.  

I think it is okay for me to feel this way and support our current laws.  

And I've actually been lucky enough to travel pretty extensively around the world.  I see drugs and alcohol as being a universal problem with emphasis on problem.  

[mikesimon]

I'm high on life - is that OK? I mean I am very high but not because of drugs or anything.......but I'm high just the same. Is that wrong?

[MrsPincince]

"I would rather not live in a society that says being high is okay."

But the reality is that you already do.  

[adgal]

I agree, I also would rather not.  I dislike being around people that are drunk and high and tend to avoid those that drink too much all the time or use drugs.   So I completely understand where you are coming from on this.

My issue really is that I just don't believe that keeping it illegal is a deterent, and I don't believe that police and prison resources are best spent on this issue.  I feel it is more a social issue then a legal one, and that our best weapon is education and easy access to help.

You and I see this issue much the same way, where we differ is on the best way to handle it.

[orphanedhawk]

The truth is SM, you could walk past these people smoking pot, and if it weren't for smelling the smoke, you wouldn't know if they were high or not.

I'd rather not live in a society that locks people up in jail for years for smoking a little weed.

I'd rather not live in a hypocritical country where if you're rich and white you are less likely to be in prison than if you are poor and dark skinned no matter what you do.

I'd rather not live in a society where people sleep on the streets, where the air and water are polluted where people struggle working two jobs just to pay their rent.

But I do. And so do you.

[nursegirl6572]

I'm kind of on the fence on this one.  I DO think legalizing marijuana would unburden our legal system in some ways....on the "witch hunt" as was mentioned above.  I think it would take SOME of the power away from the dealers, and could even create funding in the way of taxes.  Look at the crazy amount of taxes that are generated by tobacco products?

Where I get stalled out is...there would still have to be enforcement, much like the DUIs for alcohol.  Weed DOES cause impairment, therefore it shouldn't be legal to drive, etc, while using it.  What do we do with those people?  No doubt you'd see an influx of DUI cases related to pot.  Now, they are charged with possession.  While it may not be illegal if they are caught with a small amt, certainly it shouldn't be okay to be driving under the influence.

I also think it would actually exacerbate the problems with more hardcore drugs in a sense.  Not necessarily because of the gateway theory, but because dealers will start pushing harder crap to make up for what they lose out on sales of pot.

I dunno, I definitely see a difference between pot and heroin, no doubt.  I'm not really against legalization, but I'm concerned about the consequences.  

I DO think we need to be WAY tougher with the foreign suppliers.  I think dealers need to face FAR harsher penalties than they do.  They get the wrist slap because the jails are so overcrowded.  Dealers are scum....they will sell to children, they don't care if people OD, they will cut the drugs with toxic chemicals, they will use violence to accomplish getting paid, or getting revenge.  I'm sure the % of violent crimes in this country that are directly related to drugs is astronomical.

[adgal]

I fully agree with you that there would have to be laws around it such as you mentioned.  In my perfect world, they would be enforced the same way drunk driving is (and in my world there would be far harsher penalities for driving under the influence of anything!)  No argument for me with that.

As for the harder drugs, I am for decriminilization of all these substances, but only as applies to the end user.  I would like to see our system go hard after dealers, particularly those found to be targeting our children.  Those sentences should be increased in my mind.  But the end user?  I just still don't see any point at all in locking them up.  But again, for me, it would be decriminilzation as opposed to full out legalization.

Where I dont' agree with you is that we would see an influx of cases of DUI.  I just don't see decriminilzation as increasing usage.  I think those that do do, and those that don't don't if that makes sense.

[hrsepwrguy]

"Hi hrse
You live there, what do you think?"

Me, I am for it, marjuana is already decriminalized in this state as well as being an medical mj state.
My reason for being for it, is I believe that MJ is going to smoked anyway, regardless of criminalzation or not, so why not legalize, regulate, tax it and put that money to good use in my state instead of giving to the criminal element.
As you can see the first 40 mill will go directly towards better education and who doesn't want that.

[specialmom]

Honestly, I'm sticking by my opinion whether anyone likes it or appreciates it or not.  

I'm high on life too . . .  I didn't need a substance to get that way.  And I have no reason to think it is appropriate to do so.  

Adgal, you do make sense with your reasoning for why decriminlization is what you'd like to see.  

The others that think I'm wrong for not wanting to be around high people, well, so be it.  That's okay.  I dont believe in recreational pot smoking.  That's just the way it is.

And you know what, I've earned the right to feel as I do honestly as I've been very hurt by drug and alcohol use by people I love.  

[hrsepwrguy]

And just for the record, I do not smoke MJ, I used too and I used a couple of times during my treatment for HCV to releive nausea, however due to my career choice it is not an option to be a user.

[rivll]

My reason for being for it, is I believe that MJ is going to smoked anyway, regardless of criminalzation or not, so why not legalize, regulate, tax it and put that money to good use in my state instead of giving to the criminal element.

Exactly my sentiments.
Happy you have joined CE :-)

[hrsepwrguy]

"Think it's time the gloves come off and we target suppliers in South America with precision military strikes."

"As for this law, we already have an issue with DWI's, don't need more people who are high driving around."

How do you propose we pay for those military strikes ?

Maybe we should legalize it, tax it and then yes use some of that money to take the criminal element out of the picture, the legalization of MJ is not going to put any more people on the road than there already are, if you think the war on drugs in this country is successful you are sadly mistaken, MJ is just as readily availible in this country as alcohol, not only in CO but any state.

[nursegirl6572]

SM....I understand.  I agree that you have every right to the way you feel.  I don't think it's fair to basically say..."well it's the way the world is, so why not just learn to like it?".  

Also, the high on life comment is just silly.  You cannot compare someone who is happy and content to someone high on pot.  

It IS a mind altering drug.  I've only tried it a handful of times, and never got stoned out of my mind, but I'll tell you, I had NO business trying to drive while high.  I was without a doubt impaired, and did NOT have control of my driving like I should have.

[mikesimon]

It Turns Out That Smoking Marijuana May Actually Make You A Safer Driver

An amazing study authored by professors D. Mark Anderson (University of Montana) and Daniel Rees (University of Colorado) shows that traffic deaths have been reduced in states where medical marijuana is legalized.

According to their findings, the use of medical marijuana has caused traffic related fatalities to fall by nearly nine percent in states that have legalized medical marijuana (via The Truth About Cars).

The study notes that this is equal to the effect raising the drinking age to 21 had on reducing traffic fatalities.

One key factor is the reduction in alcohol consumption. The study finds that there is a direct correlation between the use of marijuana and a reduction in beer sales, especially in the younger folks aged 20-29.
Continue Below

A drop in beer sales supports the theory that marijuana can act as a substitute for liquor.

The study also finds that marijuana has the inverse effect that alcohol does on drivers. Drivers under the influence of alcohol tend to make rash decisions and risky moves, whereas those under the influence of marijuana tend to slow down, make safer choices, and increase following distances.

Read more: http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-12-19/news/30533159_1_medical-marijuana-beer-sales-traffic-fatalities#ixzz2BNYmyE20



Auto Insurance Site Says Marijuana Users Are Safer Drivers


There's yet another study now that concludes marijuana users are better drivers, especially when compared with those who use alcohol behind the wheel. Twenty years of study has concluded that marijuana smokers may actually be getting a bad rap and that they may actually have fewer accidents than other drivers.

The website 4AutoinsuranceQuote.com put a press release on the study, which "looks at statistics regarding accidents, traffic violations, and insurance prices," and "seeks to dispel the though that 'driving while stoned' is dangerous."

Research studies in the Netherlands at the Dutch Institute for Road Safety Research showed that drivers with blood alcohol rates of .5 percent up to .8 percent had accidents five times more than other drivers, and with higher amounts of alcohol, accidents happening up to 15 times more often. But, the marijuana smokers actually showed these drivers posed no risk at all!

driving-stoned.jpeg
4autoinsurancequote.com
Reasons cited for stoned drivings not being much of a threat to public highway safety include their tendency to drive slower, and their propensity to stay home rather than go out partying.

In addition, one study by the U.S. National Highway Transportation Safety Administration shows that drivers with THC in their systems have accident responsibility rates lower than those of drug-free drivers.

"What law enforcement agencies and insurers do not understand is that driving while high is actually a safe activity," CEO James Shaffer said. "I guess the key to safer driving is to use marijuana, but to do it under wraps."

One recent study indicated that traffic related fatalities fell by up to nine percent in states that have legalized medical marijuana. Entitled "Medical Marijuana Laws, Traffic Fatalities, and Alcohol Consumption," the study, conducted in November 2011, found increased cannabis use by adults decreased alcohol related traffic deaths in those states.

The study provides evidence that marijuana is a safer substitute for alcohol when it comes to health and also makes for safer drivers.

"Marijuana users often say that when they are high, they feel like they are driving 60 miles per hour but actually are only going 30 miles per hour," Shaffer said. "When somebody is drunk driving, on the other hand, they often feel like they are driving 30 miles per hour but they are actually driving 80 miles per hour. This is what makes alcohol dangerous behind the wheel, and marijuana safe."

As an auto insurance provider, 4autoinsurancequote.org said that marijuana use can also have an indirect effect on insurance rates. Because of the correlation between marijuana use and lower rates of accident responsibility, they said marijuana users, as a group, can expect in the future to see lower insurance rates than non-marijuana users.

"The hypocrisy of it all is that if you get caught driving under the influence of marijuana, you will be fined and perhaps thrown into jail," Shaffer said. "What's worse is that your insurance rates will definitely increase due to the traffic violation."

According to 4autoinsurance.com, the Top 10 reasons marijuana users are safer drivers are as follows:

1. Drivers who had been using marijuana were found to drive slower, according to a 1983 NHTSA study.

2. Marijuana users were able to drive straight and didn't have trouble staying in their own lanes, according to a 1993 NHTSA study done in the Netherlands. The same study concluded that marijuana had very little effect on overall driving ability.

3. Drivers who had smoked marijuana were less likely to try to pass other cars and were more likely to drive at a steady speed, according to a University of Adelaide study done in Australia. The study showed no danger from marijuana and driving unless the drivers had also been using alcohol.

4. Drivers high on marijuana are less likely to drive recklessly, according to a study done in the United Kingdom in 2000 by the UK Transport Research Lab. The study was actually undertaken to prove that pot impairs driving, but instead it showed the opposite -- that stoned drivers were actually safer than many other drivers on the road.

5. States that allow medical marijuana see a reduction in highway fatalities; for instance, Colorado and Montana have had a nine percent drop in traffic deaths and a five percent drop in beer sales.

6. Low doses of marijuana were found to have little affect on the ability to drive a car in a Canadian study in 2002. These drivers were found to be in much fewer car crashes than alcohol users.

7. Most marijuana smokers have fewer crashes because they tend to stay home instead of driving.

8. Marijuana smokers are thought to be more sober drivers; traffic information from 13 of the states where medical cannabis is legal showed that these drivers are actually safer and more careful than many other drivers on the road. These studies were conducted by the University of Colorado and Montana State University, exploring the relationship between legal medical marijuana and deaths in traffic accidents.

9. Multiple studies show that marijuana smokers are less likely to be risk takers than those who use alcohol; the studies showed that marijuana use calmed them down and made them pay more attention.

10. Cannabis smoking drivers were shown to follow other vehicles at safer distances, which made they less likely to cause or have crashes.

"Every test seemed to come up with these same results in all of the countries they were done in," 4autoinsurance.org concludes. "Even so, insurance companies will still penalize any driver in an accident that has been shown to have been smoking pot, so this doesn't give drivers free reign to smoke pot and drive."

http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2012/04/auto_insurance_site_says_marijuana_users_are_safer.php

[nursegirl6572]

I would agree that between pot and alcohol, pot would be the lesser of evils, but that being said, neither are safe to consume when driving.  

So, you don't have a problem with someone who is stoned, to be driving?

[specialmom]

This really shows you that you can make any case no matter how ridiculous if you look on the internet.  

[rivll]

A few years ago, my daughter and some of her friends were parked on the side of the road, smoking pot and drinking beer. (I do not condone this behavior-I was furious when she told me) A S.F. patrol car puled up and went up to the window. The officer waved the smoke out of his face and told them all to get out of the car. Another partol car came. 4 cops, 4 stupid kids.
The police found the bottle of beer and poured it out. They found the ounce of pot. They then called a tow truck and told the driver to call someone to pick them p. When her fiends dad came, the officer gave the pot back to the kid and they all left.
I LOVE SF!!!

[hrsepwrguy]

Driving under the influence of MJ is a crime in CO just as is alcohol, prescription drugs and any other mind altering drug, if it impairing your ability drive.

[mikesimon]

I hate the use of anecdotal evidence to support a point but your absolute dismissal of the articles tells me that you've never spent much time around pot smokers. I can tell you this with 100% honesty. I have never known anyone who had an accident due to pot smoking. I can also tell you I cannot count the number of people who wrecked while intoxicated from alcohol. I used to be around hippies a lot back in the day and no one I knew ever had a wreck because of pot.
Now, that's my experience and if you've had a different experience please elaborate.

[specialmom]

Well, thank goodness!  Hey, by the way, welcome to the forum.  

Rivll, I mean, what better place to drink your alcohol and smoke your pot than in a car you don't own (your parents do) on the side of the road.  Right?  yeesh.  I say lock them in the basement until they understand the danger in their bad choices.  (kidding . . .   I do NOT lock my kids in the basement.  I just make the basement really really fun so they never want to leave . . .course, they are little and haven't yet decided that I'm not cool so they don't yet want to be away from me . . . but I digress).  

Really though, I really believe that things like fear of consequences works.  It sure did for me.  

[margypops]

In California Medical pot  is legal or at least seems to be , there are many stores up selling it quite openly .My concern is that the teens will start to smoke it  I very much doubt their moms will bake it into cakes , and yes they will be driving .

[specialmom]

Nope, I'm not around a lot of pot smokers as to be perfectly honest, I've said before, I have not one friend that smokes pot recreationally.  

However, I admit nothing and deny everything regarding my college days way back when I sported big hair and skinny jeans.  I would NOT want to see myself behind a wheel of anything is all I am saying.  

Anyhoo, this is from theNnational Institute of Drug Abuse and discusses how marijauna affects the brain.  Some of these effects would not be great for driving.  

[specialmom]

Forgot the link:

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana

[orphanedhawk]

There is nothing wrong with you having your opinion but when your opinion that something should be illegal puts thousands of people into jail who have done nothing at all to harm you, I have a problem with that.
Don't want to be around people who smoke ? Then don't be.

I don't like being around drinkers so I don't go to bars. I don't try to tell others the law should punish them for doing something I don't like.

The truth is in countries where there aren't harsh drug laws, there is less of a problem.
And addictions of any kind should be a health concern not a legal one.
Do we lock up prescription drug abusers ?

Honestly, I think if your son or one of his friends during their teen years took a smoke and landed up in jail you might have a different point of view.

[orphanedhawk]

I raised my kids in the country in California and the biggest problem was with kids drinking and driving. Every year it seemed like at least one teen was killed or in a bad accident driving our curvy roads.

When my kids were teens, all the parents had a rule about parties. They were big sleep overs and car keys were collected by the parents. If they drank or smoked, or whatever they did, they were not driving until the morning.

However, as studies have shown, the biggest problem with driving impaired is from alcohol not pot. See mike's link above.

[nursegirl6572]

Do we lock up prescription drug abusers ?

Actually yes. There are many aspects of Rx abuse that is illegal...doctor shopping is just one of them.

I've driven after smoking pot, and it's a miracle I did NOT wreck.  For one, I couldn't maintain a safe speed to save my life, secondly, my perception of things around me was WAY off.  When trying to change lanes, the cars were a lot closer than I thought they were.  Thank GOD I conceded to letting my sober friend drive after I was not all that successful.

Sure, alcohol would impair one's ability to drive moreso than marijuana, but you simply cannot say there is no risk driving while stoned.  That's just crazy.  I don't care WHAT the substance is, if one is "under the influence", it's NOT smart, OR safe.

[nursegirl6572]

However, as studies have shown, the biggest problem with driving impaired is from alcohol not pot. See mike's link above. .


So, you're saying you don't see a problem with someone driving while high on marijuana?

[rivll]

I have a problem with lots of folks driving...it is crazy out there.
I can only speak for myself and even though I believe a person may be a better driver on MJ than alcohol, I do not think it is okay. It slows ones reaction time, potentially dangerous in my mind.

[nursegirl6572]

I agree, rivil.  

There's definitely going to be differences between substances for sure...as far as level of and kind of impairment...I don't think because one would be better than another does that negate the risk.

We had a woman around here who was a big "huffer" (??)...she inhaled the air cleaner for pc keyboards...omg, she was ALWAYS in the paper, she caused like 3 or 4 accidents (bad ones too) in like a 6 month period!  People actually would see her huffing right at the wheel!  UGH!

The last time she wrecked, she had her toddler with her (hello?)...needless to say, they took her child AND finally gave her jail time.  That's just unreal!

[orphanedhawk]

For goodness sakes, please stop twisting my words.

Of course I don't think people should drive impaired, whether it's on alcohol, pot, prescription drugs, when they're too tired or anything else that makes them not alert when driving. My dad died in a car accident and I don't take driving lightly.

Why do I have to even answer such a silly question ? Give me a break.

[hrsepwrguy]

Once again I would like to point out that driving under the influence of MJ is a crime in CO if it is impairing that persons ability to drive. I know several people who have a prescription for MJ and manage to function as normal humans whether they are driving, shopping or whatever daily activities they do. How many people out there are taking xanax (just one example) and are driving everyday, they take the drug because it gets them through daily life, that however is not the issue that is at hand here as MMJ is legal in this state already and possesion of MJ is a slap on the wrist.

I am looking at the aspects of the tax dollars it would create, that could be well spent in the US instead of keeping it in the black market and sending BIG BUCKS to the cartels, grow it in the US (yes I said US) regulate and tax it and by regulate I also mean control what is being put on/in it.

Lets face it folks marijuana is here to stay whether we keep it in the black market or we legalize it and use it to our advantage.

(side note) In the last 2 years CO has used 12 million dollars from the taxes and fee's of MMJ to balance its budget

[margypops]

May I ask how you tell the difference from the smoking pot or the alcohol consumption ?

[rivll]

Good points, hrsew

I am looking at the aspects of the tax dollars it would create, that could be well spent in the US instead of keeping it in the black market and sending BIG BUCKS to the cartels, grow it in the US (yes I said US) regulate and tax it and by regulate I also mean control what is being put on/in it.

I like how rational you are.

[rivll]

Read the links Mike posted --scroll up

[specialmom]

I have no problem with the fact that some don't agree with me on my position for drugs including marijauna.  Hopefully no one has a problem with my opinion.  It doesn't really matter how I feel about it as I'm only one person.  If I'm given a chance to voice my opinion in the form of a vote, it is my right to do so just as it is yours.  It would only matter if enough people feel like I do, right?  

[teko]

I can only say, that living in a town with mostly old people on prescription drugs is definitely an experience. Where I live, its not watching how you drive but paying attention to what every other person is doing on the road. They dont even look before pulling out on side streets and they drive like they are the only ones on the road! Lock em up!

And they are the same if they are walking on the street or in the grocery store too! Those may be legal drugs but I gotta say, them people is fkd up big time, all the time.

[adgal]

Regardless of how anyone feels about legalization, decriminilization or whatever the case may be, there is no study in existence that will convince me that it is ok to drive under the influence of any drug or alcohol.  I have no issue with smoking pot even if it's not my thing, but I've seen people after a joint, and I wouldn't get in the car with them anymore then I would get in the car with someone drinking.  Same with prescription drugs, or anything else.  Anything that potentially impairs your ability to react quickly does not belong behind the wheel.  Sorry, this is a hot button topic for me and one I feel very strongly about.  If your going to use any substance, be smart about it and don't drive.

[hrsepwrguy]

If your going to use any substance, be smart about it and don't drive.

I would have to say that yes I agree with that statement

"Those may be legal drugs but I gotta say, them people is fkd up big time, all the time."

LOL

SM, I totally respect your veiws and yes this is the US and you have that right

[adgal]

BTW, welcome to the CE Group!  I like your posts...you seem to enjoy the debate without making it personal or attacking.  A perfect addition to the group!!

[specialmom]

Adgal, I agree and I agree.  I agree with your comments regarding driving while under the influence of anything as well as welcoming our new addition and that he seems to discuss issues in a very kind way that is informative and yet really respectful!  Love that.  

[teko]

I would like to extend my welcome as well.

I keep going back and forth over the fence on this. On one hand I feel like SM does, and then I see how accessible these illegal substances are for anyone that wants them and have to wonder. If they are getting them anyway, maybe it would be better to legalize them and hold people to the same standards as those who drink or anything else and then get in a car. That car is a loaded weapon imo and that is my biggest resistance. But it does make sense that legalizing pot would put the cartels out of business and go a ways in solving that problem too.

But everyone reacts differently to pot, just like alcohol. I know some people if they drink hard liquor it makes them mean and they can only drink beer but if they drink the hard stuff and hurt someone they blame it on the alcohol. Same with pot or perscription drugs for that matter.

I guess Im still trying to sort this one out, but am leaning more to wondering why its illegal when for 20 bucks anyone can get there hands on it anyway. Taxing it does make sense. We have all kinds of sin taxes already so why not raise the revenue from it I guess. I dont know. EEK!

[adgal]

I think it's a tough one.  I actually have quite a hatred of drugs and alcohol. Like SM, it's impacted my life and quite frankly, alcohol especially created a pretty messed up childhood for me.  My dad is a recovering alcoholic, and was a mean abusive one.  Alcohol is what had me put in foster care, my family destroyed - I hate all mind altering substances.

The only reason I am pro decriminilization is because of my strong belief addiction is a medical issue and we are genetically predisposed towards it.  There is a lot of evidence to support it.  As you said, some can use without it becoming problematic, others cannot.  I can have a glass of wine and leave it at that.  Others won't stop after 1 until they have drank every ounce in the house.  There is a lot of easy access treatment for alcoholism, and I would like that to be the case with drug addiction as well.  And I still cannot figure out how putting a user in jail helps the situation.  Now, that does not mean that crimes committed under the influence should be excused - not at all.  Just that using in itself shouldn't be criminal.  I think age restrictions should be in place, dui laws tougher, etc etc.  But as for the actual usage?  I want the resources freed up to go hard and heavy after dealers.  To me, they are the true criminal - someone used the word vultures I believe.  I agree 100%.

So it's not that I am pro using - I'm not.  I just see the solution not lying in the law, but in other areas.  

[teko]

I tend to agree with you adgal, I guess its just that fear of having everyone walking around like zombies that is probably not realistic but still makes ya nervous. You make good points. All do. I have seen sick people use it and have gotten great relief from their illness. In fact I know a brain surgeon that recommends a good stiff shot for everything from an aching back to someone who is terminal. And that is a doctor! Works too~ lol

[nursegirl6572]

For goodness sakes, please stop twisting my words.

Of course I don't think people should drive impaired, whether it's on alcohol, pot, prescription drugs, when they're too tired or anything else that makes them not alert when driving. My dad died in a car accident and I don't take driving lightly.

Why do I have to even answer such a silly question ? Give me a break.


Um, I didn't twist your words.  I reposted the phrase you posted, which could have been taken a few ways, one was that you were minimizing driving while under the influence of MJ, that's why I came right out and asked, rather than assuming.  

The conversation was going on....kind of minimizing the dangers of driving while smoking pot.  The info Mike posted actually indicated that MJ makes one a SAFER driver, and you referred to it...I think it was a fair question.

No need to be so touchy!

[orphanedhawk]

Years ago, I recall reading that marijuana made more money than all the rest of California's agricultural crops.

Mendocino county had a model program set up by the sheriff, with strict regulations for growing plants and supplying permits for $50/ plant.
However the feds raided the county last Fall.

From Jan. 2012
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Mendocino-County-eliminates-pot-growing-permits-2803379.php#ixzz2BOs2cHqJ

Mendocino County, crumpled under pressure from the feds and stripped itself of more than a half-million dollars in annual pot income.

To give you another idea about the profit to be gained, this is from Dec, 2010, about just one city in California.

www.theweedblog.com/how-much-money-does-oakland-get-from-medical-marijuana/

The city’s finance wizards are projecting that Oakland’s three dispensaries will sell between $35 million and $38 million worth in marijuana this year.

The total has been climbing since the city started keeping track in 2004, when the dispensaries paid tax on $4.2 million worth of sales. The figures are derived from the business tax that is paid to the city by the medical marijuana dispensaries on their gross receipts.

[orphanedhawk]

" I re-posted the phrase you posted, which could have been taken a few ways, "

Right, and it seems lately you like to see my words in the worst way possible.
Please quit.
Take a breather before you post.

I am a mature adult. Why in the world would you jump to an assumption that my words meant I approve of driving under the influence?
We were talking about legalization.

I've not had to explain and re-explain myself to anyone on this forum, like I have with you.

[hrsepwrguy]

Thank you OH, the $$$$$ is exactly my point as well as the money that would be saved from decriminalization as you have pointed out above, also cutting the profit that the cartels are racking in which keep there other enterprises afloat, which as all of you know are drugs we would like to get rid of in this country, I believe that we could take that money and put it to good use here in the US.

I do fear that if it passes though, that we here in CO will feel the wrath of the federal government, including cracking down on the MMJ in this state as it is still against federal law.

Now just because I mentioned the government doesn't mean that I want this conversation into politics LOL

[specialmom]

Well, let me just say this for NG, Mike posted an article on driving after smoking pot and so the correlation between your comments and that certainly wasn't unreasonable considering many posts were then directed at that subject and you did make the comment about accidents happening from alcohol verses pot.  

So, I wouldn't say that NG's comments were out there or personal as she also took on the subject with mikesimon as well.  

Just giving NG some love.  I don't think she is being personal so maybe don't be personal with her and you two will be friends.  :>)  

[adgal]

Interesting comment about the wrath of the Federal Gov't.  I have had a bit of experience there in my own country.  

I am a firm believer in safe injection sites, and in needle exchanges (we are talking the harder drugs now obviously).  There are a number of reasons I support them - it decreases the spread of certain deadly diseases, it keeps needles off of the streets and they are staffed by professionals who know what to do in an overdose (yes, I believe in human beings, regardless of their personal issues or addictions).  So I have spent a lot of time volunteering at needle exchanges.  Never did I have someone come in who had never used asking for clean works, so I don't believe it encourages usage.  Anyway, the exchanges and safe injection sites are continously being shut down by gov't officials. It's so frustrating.  They come down hard and heavy, but in my mind, they are coming down on the users.  Go after the illegal dealers.  So I wonder if you are intending to reference a similar type reaction?  

[nursegirl6572]

Sigh....if I made an assumption, I would have said, OH, why do you think that it's okay to drive while high?  That's an assumption...I asked you a direct question.

Take a breather before you post.  I'm not randomly posting without thought, but thanks for the suggestion.


You referred another poster to Mike's link/info, entitled "It Turns Out That Smoking Marijuana May Actually Make You A Safer Driver ", plus made that comment that could be interpreted a few different ways.  I came right out at asked you a DIRECT question, which you answered.  I appreciate the answer, can we just leave it at that?

[nursegirl6572]

I'll admit I worded the question poorly.  It was accusatory.  I should have worded it better.

[orphanedhawk]

Sure, lets leave it at that.
Peace.

[nursegirl6572]

Thanks SM, I appreciate that.

And no, it certainly was not meant to be personal.  Rereading my question, I can see that it could come off as accusatory, but I do maintain that the overall theme seemed to be downplaying the dangers of driuving while high.

I apologize for not asking in a more neutral fashion.

I don't have ANYTHING against YOU, or anyone else here.  NOTHING I bring up is made to be personal, even during a heated discussion.  I DO speak my mind, and I DO hold people to the things they say....as I have been here, by others.

[nursegirl6572]

Thank you OH.  I'm sorry if I offended you.

[orphanedhawk]

True. There's an article on it, right here.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/05/marijuana-legalization-states-2012_n_2078759.html

As someone who's been watching this odd game for some time, I find it curious that the feds come in, prices go up. They've been dropping for several years as more and more people find it profitable to grow the weed.

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/ebx/an-outdoor-pot-bonanza/Content?oid=3378773

NG~ It's often problematic online to know just how we come across.
No worries, I'm not offended.

[nursegirl6572]

Thats very true, OH...it's very easy to misconstrue someone's intention/tone.

It's all good.

[hrsepwrguy]

"They come down hard and heavy, but in my mind, they are coming down on the users.  Go after the illegal dealers.  So I wonder if you are intending to reference a similar type reaction?"

First I would like to say that I totally support what you are doing as I was hep c +, at the moment I am undetectable 3 months post treatment and hoping to reach SVR, lets be honest it wasn't because I was a saint when I was young.

In reference to your question yes that is what I fear that they will crack down where I don't feel they should (MMJ, personal use, ect ect) I believe they should go after the bigger criminal fish as in the cartels importing large amounts of tax free drugs

[orphanedhawk]

Marijuana usage fuels the industrial prison complex.
Fact:
In 2011, one American was arrested for marijuana possession every 42 seconds.

The crack down in Oakland did not happen until after independent labs began producing tinctures for medicinal use. It's believed by some that the pharmaceutical companies are not happy about not getting these profits.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jul/13/local/la-me-oakland-marijuana-20120713

[rivll]

Just reread this thread. Really good stuff. I love learning like this.

[specialmom]

Yes, I agree.  Lots of good things in the thread.

[R Glass]

I hope I’m not “Beating a Dead Horse” but I only had the time to skim over the posts…

“And weed is still considered a gateway drug, and I have seen that for my own eyes.”

I never really agreed with that. Even though it is true almost all Addicts started off by smoking Weed, it is also true almost all Sex Offenders started off looking at porn, and almost everyone convicted of DUIs started off by getting a Drivers License.
If you were to take a Poll on everyone that has tried Smoking Weed, looking at a Playboy, or get a Drivers License, you find very few went on to become Addicts, Perverts, or Drive Under the Influence.
The fact is, it is easily obtained and anyone that wants to smoke it is going to smoke it anyway. So I say legalize it and tax the hell out of it. Treat it like Moonshine; if you get caught growing it or possession of it illegally, you go to jail.

[rivll]

I never really agreed with that. Even though it is true almost all Addicts started off by smoking Weed, it is also true almost all Sex Offenders started off looking at porn, and almost everyone convicted of DUIs started off by getting a Drivers License.

Excellent point Glass!!

However I take issue with going to jail for growing it. I would hate to be carted away for my little plant under the sun lamp...:-)

[specialmom]

Which I'm sure many would do when the prices rise due to taxation and regulation.  (growing it themselves or obtaining it illegally).  It would still be a nightmare for the legal system.  They'd still have to enforce various laws around it including being under the influence in public places---  there would have to be some kind of law regarding this in the work place, at school, etc.  There would need to be driving laws, etc.

I still believe that it would not be in the best interest of the public to legalize mj.  

[R Glass]

I didn’t make my point clear. Let me try again. I think it should be treated like Moonshine and Possession of it. If you get caught you go to jail. However, it should also be treated like Homemade Beer and Wine. A limited amount is legal to make for personal consumption. How they would regulate it? I have no idea.

[rivll]

they'd still have to enforce various laws around it including being under the influence in public places---  there would have to be some kind of law regarding this in the work place, at school, etc.  There would need to be driving laws, etc.

They are doing that now anyway..except in areas where it is generally accepted. In Oakland we have one officer to every 2000 people (approx.) They don't need to worry about people smoking pot when there are much higher priorities. My neighbor was robbed at gunpoint yesterday. It is a daily thing, violence and crime. We need to get our priorities straight and the California police are totally on board with that, thankfully.
Regulate and tax!! That is my mantra.

[specialmom]

Luckily, my little old conservative state of Ohio has no desire to legalize pot.  Again, not speaking of medical marijauna as that is different to me.  

[orphanedhawk]

“And weed is still considered a gateway drug, and I have seen that for my own eyes.”

That has always struck me as propaganda.
Is eating a gateway to bulimia, anorexia or obesity ??

My bet is more people had a beer before they became drug addicts.
Does anyone call beer a gateway drug ?

[hrsepwrguy]

"The fact is, it is easily obtained and anyone that wants to smoke it is going to smoke it anyway."

I totally agree with that statement, if there is anyone who believes diffierent please speak up now and let me know your reasoning.

"So I say legalize it and tax the hell out of it."
:)

[specialmom]

Okay, it's a draw.  LOL  I say no.  you (any of you) say yes.  We'll see what happens in the next few years.  :>)

[hrsepwrguy]

Agreed LOL :)

[jules2551]

Cough, cough, cough.....anyone have a light?  :)~

[rivll]

LOL!!! I used a vaporizer-a lot easier on the lngs

[rivll]

lungs

[hrsepwrguy]

Colorado passes proposal to legalize marijuana

The “No on 64″ campaign told FOX31 Denver reporter Mark Meredith it is accepting defeat and thankful for voters.

FOX31 Denver has called the race and Amendment 64 is passing.

Amendment 64 asked Colorado voters whether or not marijuana should be regulated in the same way the state regulates the sale of alcohol to people 21 and older.

The ballot measure is the result of several months of lobbying from pro-marijuana organizations who believe decriminalization could help law enforcement rearrange resources and staff for more serious crimes.

Those against legalization argued Amendment 64 will encourage more drug cartels to setup shop in Colorado and also give teenagers easier access to marijuana. That group was accepting defeat Tuesday night.

“We knew all along this was an uphill battle against a well-funded national movement,” Roger Sherman, campaign director for “No on 64,” said. “We appreciate the efforts of Governor John Hickenlooper, former Governors Bill Owens and Bill Ritter, Attorney General John Suthers, Mayors Michael Hancock and Steve Hogan and countless other sheriffs, county commissioners, district attorneys and local elected officials who joined with the business community and citizens of Colorado to oppose this ill-conceived amendment.”

Pro-legalization groups believe decriminalization will boost the state’s economy with new taxes and licensing fees.

According to the Colorado Center on Law and Policy, Colorado law enforcement would save an estimated $12 million in the first year of legalization.

http://kdvr.com/2012/11/06/colorado-passes-proposal-to-legalize-marijuana/

It's not officially in the bag yet but it does look like it has passed in CO

[orphanedhawk]

Open us the dispensary doors !

[rivll]

Woo hoo!!

[adgal]

I had heard of prop 64, but had no idea what it was....lol.  Even though technically I support legalization (or at least decriminilization), it feels odd to say congrats on legalizing a drug?? lol.  I think you know what I mean.  Still, if this means easier access for those using it medicinally, that is a very good thing indeed.  And it will be interesting to see what the usage stats are in the future.  It might be a tough thing to track as closet users will now be more open to admitting it, so Im sure the numbers will be fairly skewed for sometime to come. The figure of 12 million dollar savings doesn't surprise me a bit.  Most of the cops I know here support this move and I suspect our entire country isn't far behind you.  I hope so.  That feels weird to say too.....lol.

[jules2551]

Great news! Moving to Colorado and start farming. Money money money. (Its too damn cold up there though)

[hrsepwrguy]

It looks like there will be 2 states to legalize marijuana

Washinton state
Initiative 502: Marijuana legalization

Yes     839,120     56.0%
No       660,455     44.0%

[rivll]

LOL! Moving to Colorado and start farming.

Me too, how fun!

[jules2551]

Wow that is great its about time! I dont smoke MJ but i really feel its a way to free up the prison systems somewhat and also increase the tax revenues for the states. When other states start to do the "math" i think it will become a domino effect. Cash registers will be smoking!!!!!

[rivll]

Yes, better the cash registers should smoke than us. It was good for pain, but I am pretty over it now.

[adgal]

Welcome to CE!!

I agree with your statements, and that is exactly how I see it as well (I'm in Canada, and it's not yet legal here, but close).  I feel police resources would be far better spent elsewhere.  I'm actually a bit of a rarity I think in that I am actually pro decriminalization of all drugs.  I see drug use and addiction as a social issue and don't feel prison time is the solution to addiction.  Now, the dealers - lock em up and throw away the key.  But not the users or addicts.

[hrsepwrguy]

rivll, jules

Growing marijuana is quite fun and relaxing as I have done it in the past as well as having been a user (not anymore on either), but the stress of the thought of being put in prison for life was a pretty good deterent, so I chose to continue with my career as a directional driller which I will be staying with, all though I do come from a family of cotton farmers in TX, LOL

Back to the $$$$$ issue

Under Amendment 64, marijuana is taxed and regulated similar to alcohol and tobacco. It gives state and local governments the ability to control and tax the sale of small amounts of marijuana to adults age 21 and older. According to the Associated Press, analysts project that that tax revenue could generate somewhere between $5 million and $22 million a year in the state.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/06/amendment-64-passes-in-co_n_2079899.html?ref=topbar

I think this is a good step in the right direction against the war on drugs in this country (for adgal) not so much in the way of putting user in prison but being able to point focus on the real problem of the cartels that are importing drugs into this country while waging war on there own people, there is so much senseless death in mexico it is appalling.

[adgal]

I certainly agree with you regarding the cartels.  Hopefully legalization slows them down somewhat as their bottom line will be impacted.  One of the pluses with legalization in my opinion.

I'm curious as to your comments on farming.  Would you be pro allowing people to farm this independently?  I'm on the fence on that one I think.  Part of me thinks that as it's a plant, that should be ok (I am fine with folks growing only for personal use).  My concern is that if people can grow on their own for distribution, that it becomes easier to get into the hands of kids.  I do believe mj should be treated much like alcohol in that their are age restrictions and regulations in place.  I say this primarily because so much research shows that any substance like this (including alcohol) can impact a developing brain.  I prefer to see it remain only for adults, and worry that open farming could make that restriction impossible.  I'd be interested to hear your opinion on that.

I'm really enjoying this conversation btw, so many interesting perspectives.

[rivll]

I think this is a good step in the right direction against the war on drugs in this country (for adgal) not so much in the way of putting user in prison but being able to point focus on the real problem of the cartels that are importing drugs into this country while waging war on there own people, there is so much senseless death in Mexico it is appalling.

Brilliant. That just organized my confusion about how to fight the Cartels. It has seemed so hopeless and the Mexican people are really suffering from these monstrous criminals. Love it. love it! Thanks

[adgal]

It does make a lot of sense doesn't it.  If legalization continues across the US, the cartels profits drop dramatically, and hopefully that makes them quit for good!  Wouldn't that be something?  I'd love to see those monsters (good term) put out of business!!

[hrsepwrguy]

"Would you be pro allowing people to farm this independently?"

For personal use yes in small amounts, I have to believe that the parent's that choose to do this are responsible enough to keep it out of the hands of their children, for public consumption as the amendment proposes NO, I don't think anyone and everyone should be able to grow acre's of marijuana, I think it needs to be regulated by permits and overseen by some sort of committee that controls what is being in/on it as well as making sure it is getting taxed properly, I am not for a free for all on marijuana cultivation.

[rivll]

Yes. Revenues, putting the Cartels out of business, and the decriminalization will get the MJ drug related non violent offenders out of the system..This is very exciting to think of the possibilities..

[rivll]

I agree. It should most definitely be overseen and carefully regulated. Otherwise  folks will be like crows at a corn harvest.

[nursegirl6572]

The interviewed the Co governor last night...he said this will probably be a lot more about decriminalization than actual legalization.  He said they have a major uphill climb because it's still illegal under federal law.

He warned people not to be overly anxious about what this means.  He said only time will tell what they will be able to do, with the federal law in the way.  See???  If states were allowed to handle more of their own business seperate from the federal gov't...it would be an even bigger deal!  LOL  ;0)

I'll be curious to see how this plays out.

[teko]

Times are definitely changing. LOL

[nursegirl6572]

Maybe our new motto should be..."can't beat 'em?  Smoke with 'em!"  LOL

[specialmom]

Ugh.  I am not going to lie.  I am frightened in a real way about the direction this country is headed.  

[rivll]

I understand from your perspective how you would feel that way. There is always a possibility that with too much leniency, chaos can follow. In my opinion, it is necessary to have safeguards in place and real accountability whether it be in dealing with the MJ issue, or any system that is set up that can be exploited.
That is the difficult part.