Marriage between one man and one women

[Life360_Dave]

Can someone fill me in on how and why the Supreme court ruled in favor of same sex marriage? Was it the justices opinion or unconstituional on its face.

[brice1967]

Why am I okay with it?  Because I am human, gays are human and should have the exact same rights.  Not you perhaps but other people have argued over the word marriage.... talk about PC that you seem to be sick of.

"It doesn't affect me" is clearly relevant.  If it doesn't affect you, why deny people those rights?  

Of all of the things out there that don't affect you and you don't like, how many do you participate in?

I don't like pistachio ice cream.  Beats the hell out of me, because I love pistachios.  I'm not going to around and say people can't have pistachio ice cream.  It doesn't matter what I think about it.  If you want some, eat it up.  Eat all you can!

[el_em_en_oh]

Can't one just say "I don't think it's right for gays to marry", and have it left at that, without being asked "HOW DOES IT AFFECT YOU?!?"

How does it affect me? It freaking doesn't. Not one bit.

I just think it isn't right.

Doesn't make me a homophobe. Doesn't mean i hate gays.

Just means I don't think it's right.

If you think it's right and a good thing, fantastic ...good for you. If you think it's wrong, and not a good thing, fantastic... good for you.

I could turn around and say "WHY ARE YOU OKAY WITH IT?!?" and if your answer is, it doesn't affect me, then case and point.

That's not an answer... it doesn't affect me.

There are PLENTY of things out there that don't affect me, that I think are wrong. Doesn't mean I hate people or let it affect my daily life. I just htink they're wrong.

Not sure why I'm posting this...

[hrsepwrguy]

"Brice, do you think Gays are more sexually driven than non gays?"


Need I pull up more to show you changed the conversation.

[hrsepwrguy]

"George is running around the house in his TuTu shouting "catch me if you can".

"Check out some of the studies done on Gay sexuality. "

What does those comments have to do with gay marriage rights ?

[Life360_Dave]

I would like to comment on your question but we are supposed to be discussing same sex marriage not my thoughts about man to man anal sex and woman to woman strapped on fake penises.

[hrsepwrguy]

I find it interesting that you are so fascinated by gay people's sex lives.

Why is that ?

[brice1967]

Nothing is wrong with that picture unless you have a problem with gay people.  Your problem with gay people is why you don't want them to have the same rights you do.

When do you suppose we take the right to vote away from women?  At one point, that was really weird and unheard of.

[Life360_Dave]

Yes im also republican. And to answer the question, same sex marriage doesnot affect me i just think its the strange and weird.

"I,  Brice take George to be my wedded husband..........I now pronounce you Man and Man. you may now kiss the husband".

And then during the honeymoon night, George is running around the house in his TuTu shouting "catch me if you can".

Like i said, whats wrong with this picture!

[brice1967]

I respect what you are saying.  Totally and completely respect what you are saying and I think I have to point one thing out to you in regards to gay marriage.  

Lets say you did have a gay kid.  Your kid grows up, does good in school and moves away for college.  At college, he/she takes complete charge of his/her studies and graduates with a 4.0 and manages to meet someone he/she wants to spend the rest of his/her life with.... would you not want your child to be happy?  Would you be willing to step away from your child's life at this point?  (Honestly, I don't think there is a chance of that happening.)

Before I was married, I didn't get the gay thing....  I grew up around gays.  I didn't get it, but here's the kicker.  I couldn't get it because I was not gay!  I think if you spend some time and be honest with yourself, you can work this out.  

Let me say this.  I'm not trying to win you over or anything.  it doesn't matter.  I don't know you.  But, referring to my own experience, I was ignorant.  I didn't know a thing about gay people, their lives, what they wanted.  Now I do.  I don't know 1 gay person who doesn't want exactly what I want... and nothing more.

If you want to discuss in private, I'd be happy too.  And like I said, I'm not trying to win you over, I am just trying to point to a few things you accept for some folks and not others.  (I missed a lot of this when I was younger, and when I had a gay kid, it changed my life for the better!)  

[brice1967]

"What's wrong with this picture?"  (2 men or women kissing)

You know what?  I don't get anything out of it.  I am not a "public display of affection" type of guy.  Call me old fashioned or an idiot, but I don't like seeing hetero-couples kissing in public.  It just doesn't work for me, but if someone else does it?  It isn't against the law.....

I understand you are uncomfortable with the whole thing, but why deny a HUMAN the same rights or privileges you or I can take advantage of?

A gay marriage cannot affect you.  It just can't.  2 people you don't know, not living in your house, not eating your food, living in your house, driving your car, sleeping in your bed..... it can't affect you, so don't let it.  

For hells sake.  Live a little.  Let go of the crap you cannot control and let people live.  

I have to ask.  Are you a republican/conservative?  (Its relevant, and I'll break it down for you if you want.)  I am a republican, by the way.

[hrsepwrguy]

"if you go to jail you will come out gay......  its a lie"

I sure hope so or else I caught the gay and didn't know it, better find me someone to pray that away

[clement4now]

Brice, I respect what you are saying and I agree with some of it. Some I don't agree with, but I do so respectfully.
I think that if I had a child who was gay, my feelings might change, but I'm not completely sure because that isn't something I have personally experienced as a parent. I certainly wouldn't stop loving my son/daughter because of their sexual preference, but I'm not sure if I would completely embrace every aspect of the lifestyle. Once again this is my personal opinion and part of my own belief system. Once my children are adults, it is their own business on how they want to conduct themselves, and that is something that I will have to accept whether I like it or not. This is why I can understand where you and SM are coming from regarding the topic & being parents...

Yes, there is a lot of info. out there that is quite disturbing, and you can't believe everything you read. I did live in 2 cities ( Los Angeles and San Francisco) with large gay communities. I have quite a few gay and lesbian friends as a result. I have gone to 2 gay parades, and many gay bars. Prior to getting married, my very dear friend and roomie, was a gay male. So, I'm not completely in the dark with the gay lifestyle. I base my feelings on my personal experiences, and my own beliefs. I didn't vote for gay marriage, but I do think people deserve to be happy....
Well, Ben Carson is an amazing person, but I don't agree with the whole jail & gay statement either ~ everyone has an opinion...

[orphanedhawk]

The only thing 'wrong' with the picture of two men or women kissing or marrying is what is in your mind. You were raised to believe what you see is the norm. If you saw all people showing expressions of affection from a young age you would not think it was 'wrong.'

When I went to Thailand I saw lots of straight men wearing head bands and wearing pink shirts that people here would think meant the men were gay.
It's societal.

If you stop judging people for being different you might find that we are all more alike than you thought.

[mikesimon]

Amen!!!!!

[brice1967]

There is absolute science proving people are gay.  I know a girl I grew up with.  Very much "heterosexual" and she married a buddy of mine.  They had 2 boys together and were married for nearly 20 years.  They divorced and it came out that she was gay.... she was never satisfied with her heterosexual marriage/lifestyle and it lead to some reckless behavior including cheating and drug abuse....  She was trying to satiate a need that her straight husband could not do.

I would bet something like this was the case with your brother.  Maybe not, but my friend told me that she did love my buddy, but was not in love.  He took incredible care of her, showed her the world, bought her jewelry, flowers, wined and dined her..... it didn't work, and were talking 20 years.  She told me that she married because it was expected of her, from her parents.  Her parents are now dead, and she is out of the closet and living her real life for the first time in 40 something years.  (In the mean time, my buddy is shocked and doesn't understand it.  I understand that.  He feels betrayed and I understand that too.  But, he knows he cant change it.)

Some people, as in prison inmates "go gay" as a survival method.  Some people do it for attention.  Some gays are super flamboyant and run around in pink zebra stipe things and tell you that you have to accept them.  You don't.  You don't have to accept anyone, but you have to know that there are millions of gay people that don't act that way.  

I'd guess its a safe bet that you are probably friends or at least acquaintances with a gay person and don't know they are gay.  One of my idols growing up was this tough son of a gun who fight his butt off.  He was good at it.  He taught me how to defend myself and he was as gay as they come.  I didn't know it for years, and it didn't matter.  This guy baby sat my sister and I.  He wasn't a pervert or a pedophile, he was gay.  He had no interest in me....

There are a lot of horrible sites out there (one was mentioned above) that provide so much false information about gay people and its disgusting.  Go back to the 30's and either way from there.  There was so much false information being provided about black people and the white people at it up.  In fact, the Mormon church would not accept black people, decades later let them come to church, but they could not be preachers or whatever.  They finally allowed it in the late 70's if I'm not mistaken.

All I am asking is don't let ignorance stand in your way.  Look around.  You laughed at the "can't catch the gay" and you can't... and it is funny, but people believe it.  Ben Carson, running for President says that if you go to jail you will come out gay......  its a lie, its misinformation and this is a guy is a brain surgeon!  He should know better.  I was going to vote for this guy, but if he is this uneducated, I'd vote for my dog before I'd vote for this guy.

[brice1967]

It is absolutely normal for males with effeminate qualities to act or seem somewhat feminine.  It has nothing to do with a 3rd gender.  Listen, you can be male and have interest in either females, males, both or neither sex.  Some males go their lives without "breeding".  (That seems to be a big deal with you.)  Some women have interest in males, other women or sometimes both and go their lives without breeding.  Is it difficult for you to understand that some people just don't breed?  Do you understand that some people can't breed because of medical conditions?  What is the fixation on breeding.  

And as for your link, it lacks facts.  carm.org is a Christian organization who thinks you can "pray away the gay".  That is not the way it works.  For some actual science on the matter, please refer to hrsepwrguy's post above.  Its bonafide science on the matter.

You're still avoiding the question that I've asked a few times, sm asked a couple of times as did hrsepwrguy.... How does a gay couple being married affect you?

[hrsepwrguy]

"After the wedding ceremony when the 2 men or women kiss its like whats wrong with this picture"

Nothing unless it bothers you personally.

[Life360_Dave]

Yes Specialmom we did get off the subject!! It dosent, it only seems odd. After the wedding ceremony when the 2 men or women kiss its like whats wrong with this picture!

[specialmom]

This is not a condemnation of sexual preference or exploring what one feels is wrong with it.  This thread is about laws stating if they can legally marry or not.  

Life, you never did answer the VERY relevant question of how does a gay couple being married affect you personally.  

[hrsepwrguy]

"~ I'm sure in the future there will be some sort of study put out for everyone to debate about later... "

“Child Well-Being in Same-Sex Parent Families: Review of Research Prepared for American Sociological Association Amicus Brief”
Manning, Wendy D.; Fettro, Marshal Neal; Lamidi, Esther. Population Research and Policy Review, August 2014, Vol. 33, Issue 4, 485-502. doi: 10.1007/s11113-014-9329-6.

Abstract: “Recent legal cases before the Supreme Court of the United States were challenging federal definitions of marriage created by the Defense of Marriage Act and California’s voter approved Proposition 8 which limited marriage to different-sex couples only. Social science literature regarding child well-being was being used within these cases, and the American Sociological Association sought to provide a concise evaluation of the literature through an amicus curiae brief. The authors were tasked in the assistance of this legal brief by reviewing literature regarding the well-being of children raised within same-sex parent families. This article includes our assessment of the literature, focusing on those studies, reviews and books published within the past decade. We conclude that there is a clear consensus in the social science literature indicating that American children living within same-sex parent households fare just as well as those children residing within different-sex parent households over a wide array of well-being measures: academic performance, cognitive development, social development, psychological health, early sexual activity, and substance abuse. Our assessment of the literature is based on credible and methodologically sound studies that compare well-being outcomes of children residing within same-sex and different-sex parent families. Differences that exist in child well-being are largely due to socioeconomic circumstances and family stability.”



“Promoting the Well-Being of Children Whose Parents Are Gay or Lesbian”
2013 study from Tufts University, Boston Medical Center and the Committee on Psychosocial Aspects of Child and Family Health published in Pediatrics.

Abstract: “Extensive data available from more than 30 years of research reveal that children raised by gay and lesbian parents have demonstrated resilience with regard to social, psychological, and sexual health despite economic and legal disparities and social stigma. Many studies have demonstrated that children’s well-being is affected much more by their relationships with their parents, their parents’ sense of competence and security, and the presence of social and economic support for the family than by the gender or the sexual orientation of their parents. Lack of opportunity for same-gender couples to marry adds to families’ stress, which affects the health and welfare of all household members.”




“U.S. National Longitudinal Lesbian Family Study: Psychological Adjustment of 17-Year-Old Adolescents”
2010 study from the University of California-San Francisco, the University of California-Los Angeles and the University of Amsterdam published in Pediatrics.

Findings: “The 17-year-old daughters and sons of lesbian mothers were rated significantly higher in social, school/academic, and total competence and significantly lower in social problems, rule-breaking, aggressive, and externalizing problem behavior than their age-matched counterparts… Within the lesbian family sample, no Child Behavior Checklist differences were found among adolescent offspring who were conceived by known, as-yet-unknown, and permanently unknown donors or between offspring whose mothers were still together and offspring whose mothers had separated… Adolescents who have been reared in lesbian-mother families since birth demonstrate healthy psychological adjustment.”



“Nontraditional Families and Childhood Progress Through School”
2010 research by Stanford University published in Demography.

Findings: “Children of same-sex couples are as likely to make normal progress through school as the children of most other family structures… the advantage of heterosexual married couples is mostly due to their higher socioeconomic status. Children of all family types (including children of same-sex couples) are far more likely to make normal progress through school than are children living in group quarters (such as orphanages and shelters).”

http://journalistsresource.org/studies/society/gender-society/same-sex-marriage-children-well-being-research-roundup

[clement4now]

I understand your point of view from your comment yesterday; actually I thought the 'you don't catch the gay' was pretty funny.

I understand you can't catch gay, but I don't agree with you about people being born gay, not all gay people anyway, that's just my opinion. I have a gay brother, who for the first 25 years of his life was straight, he was married to a woman and had a child. At the age of 32 he divorced, lost custody of his child, and turned to drug abuse. Soon after, he decided to become involved romantically w/ another man; now they happily live together. We've talked in depth about his choice of being gay; he doesn't believe he was born gay, but he does believe an incident from his childhood had made an impact on his life which he claims influenced his current choice of lifestyle. I'm not saying that this type of scenario applies to every gay persons life choice, or that it is the reason behind a person choosing the gay lifestyle ~ perhaps some feel they were born gay, but there are some that don't feel that way...
Yes, I realize gay people come from straight families :) and I do understand that gays can raise straight children.  Although I do think, that young minds can be influenced to fall into to certain lifestyle patterns, for example children being raised around drug/alcohol abuse could very likely follow in the footsteps of their parents. I also believe that certain events in ones life can shape their views and change their choice of sexual preference... I think it's too early for us to make exact judgements about gays raising straight kids versus gays raising gay kids ~ I'm sure in the future there will be some sort of study put out for everyone to debate about later...

Anyway, I don't think you and I will agree on this particular topic, but that's okay because we're all entitled to our own opinions...

[Life360_Dave]

https://carm.org/statistics-homosexual-promiscuity

Check out some of the studies done on Gay sexuality.

[Life360_Dave]

Not at all. Would you say its "normal" for men to act feminine or is acting feminine something that is learned or it is something that a point is trying to be expressed? Same with the female acting masculine. What are your thoughts about this? Its almost like there is a third gender!

[brice1967]

I don't think gays are any more sexually driven than anyone else.  I also think that is completely irrelevant.  I think you are somehow trying to equate gay with pedophilia again.... am I right?

If it doesn't affect you, then why deny someone of what they deserve?

The dynamics of a gay relationship are exactly the same as in a heterosexual relationship.  There is love, trust, respect and each person contributes equally.  (When you say dynamics, you're talking about sex, aren't you?)