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480448 tn?1426948538

Michigan "Right to Work" Bill

Snippets from the article:

"LANSING (WWJ) - Ahead of a historic vote in Lansing on legislation that would make Michigan the nation’s 24th right-to-work state, Governor Rick Snyder told WWJ Newsradio 950 it’s all about freedom of choice for workers and bringing new jobs to the state.

Speaking live on-air Tuesday morning, Snyder said the Senate will pass the legislation and he plans to sign it when it reaches his desk.

“I believe it will pass. The house will take up two bills, one for the public sector and one for the private sector, and they should pass those bills today. The bills likely wouldn’t arrive at my desk until the following day,” he said."




"The bottom line in passing the legislation, Snyder said, is giving workers the opportunity to join a union and pay any associated dues if they please, instead of forcing workers to pay union dues as a condition for employment.

“The point here is to give workers a choice, it’s their freedom to choose. And I encourage unions to be very proactive as to presenting the right value case as to why it’s good to join and when they do, I would expect that people do join… That’s the main point here is worker choice, freedom to choose,” he said. “It’s good for workers to have a choice. They can decide if they see value or not and should their dollars go to the union or not based on seeing that value.”

Snyder said research shows that right-to-work laws have brought new and better jobs in states where they’re enacted."


http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/12/11/gov-snyder-right-to-work-will-pass-give-workers-freedom-of-choice/


This is a wonderful thing.  Let the employee choose whether or not they want to be in the union.  It shouldn't be mandatory.  Of course, there are big protests, which I don't really get...the unions are still free to do what they do, only they can't force workers to join.
53 Responses
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Avatar universal
http://www.upworthy.com/a-politician-loses-it-on-the-state-house-floor-says-what-all-of-us-are-thinking?c=ufb1

I like this guy!
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
I'm not entirely for sure how, but it starts with accountability.  That is going to require pointing out the bad guys and completely exposing them for what they are.  DC doesn't have time for that because they are all the "good old boys network".  That is going to be our job and in order to do it correctly (IMO) we are going to have to set party line affiliation aside and read these bastards for what they are.

If we were to audit (and I know we really don't have time for that after they get elected) these people and find out where favors are coming from and flowing too out of DC... that would be a wonderful start.
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163305 tn?1333668571
Sigh~ I truly believe the system is  broken.
We need to delete and begin again~ the only question is how ?
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Avatar universal
You apparently were in a right to work state.... it wasn't all that bad, was it?  And people here in opposition of unions have shouted praise on what unions have provided.  There's no denying that they got us the 40 hour work week, safer work environs.  It's all there now.... what else are they doing?

OH... "They need lobbyists in DC or the corporate run business will continue to destroy whatever controls are protective laws are still in place..."  The unions are in bed with the corporations to some extent.  Union employees are working for corporations all over the country...

Those are the people that are in bed with corporations.  They lobby for corporations and get cushy contracts that employ union workers.  Its right there if you dig deep enough.  There are laws that protect the American worker now
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163305 tn?1333668571
Sadly unions have to do more to guarantee worker's rights. They need lobbyists in DC or the corporate run business will continue to destroy whatever controls and protective laws are still in place.

Who is going to protect the little guy in the US ? Who is going to stop laws from changing so there is no protection ?
Not some poor schmo making minimum wage.
And we all know who owns our politicians.

Sorry gang, I think the whole system is broke.
I don't trust those guys in DC to do anything other than what the big money people who put them into office tell them to do.
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Avatar universal
Rivll... glad you never had to depend on your union.  (How did you go about not paying dues?  My mom was an educator for 30 years and had to pay her dues....)

I don't remember exactly when it started but sometime in the 2000 decade we were given a choice. Some people stopped paying their dues as a result.
The majority of us did not. I have seen the District's union do a good job and help people in bad situations and I have seen them support people who should have been fired years before. I am well aware of the abuses to the system and they need to be checked just as anyone in power needs to be kept in check.
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Avatar universal

We can't belittle what the unions had accomplished, but time has changed. There is nothing that can ONLY be accomplished by the unions. Yes, China/India/Indonesia/etc. still need the unions.

Thank you, El. That is what I have been saying to what seems like deaf ears. Everyone is in such a hurry to give their union horror stories (I have plenty too) that it seems that there is no acknowledgment of the good work they have done. I totally agree that they can be bullies and that they can do harm. Yes, we all agree there needs to be major changes.


In highly developed countries like the U.S., Canada, Europe, worker protective laws is the most efficient solution. Foreign owned manufacturers in the U.S. have proven that.

The laws are in place and that's good, but lawyers cost money and beyond that many people are not sophisticated enough to take it to court on their own.
I still believe that unions can serve an important purpose, if we do not lose sight of the good they can do and the changes that need to be done to make them less corrupt and more effective.
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Avatar universal
Seems as if I heard a few liberals here on CE at one point touting how wonderful it is to have a choice.  I guess you just can't have a choice when it comes to unions?

Rivll... glad you never had to depend on your union.  (How did you go about not paying dues?  My mom was an educator for 30 years and had to pay her dues....)  My dad thought the same thing as you... 'at least the union will have my back".  The union cut and ran when an entire shift of over 40's was fired from the Las Vegas Hilton in the early to mid 80's.  Not a rep to be found to help them... This group of people had to hire lawyers for any representation.  

That's the real deal on unions!
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1310633 tn?1430224091
Okay, monopoly breeds inefficiency. The unions have become that. The right-to-work measure breaks that monopoly.

Hi-tech startups wouldn't have made the profound impact that we've seen had they been forced to be unionized. In fact, can you name one hi-tech startup that is unionized? And when these companies grow bigger (Apple, Google, Intel, etc.), the unions want to stick their nose in.

We can't belittle what the unions had accomplished, but time has changed. There is nothing that can ONLY be accomplished by the unions. Yes, China/India/Indonesia/etc. still need the unions.

In highly developed countries like the U.S., Canada, Europe, worker protective laws is the most efficient solution. Foreign owned manufacturers in the U.S. have proven that.
Helpful - 0
1310633 tn?1430224091
"...thousands of people are protesting..."

Yeah, the UNIONS are protesting. Who else would be protesting this?

Kind of a silly statement, that THOUSANDS of people are protesting. Let's talk about WHO is protesting, and don't just say "1000's of people", shall we?
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Avatar universal
Hysterical.... Anyone see how the union bullies were acting at that rally yesterday?  Knocking down a tent and punching people....?  Nice work again, unions.  (You'd think these union guys were the Tea Party, but nope.... good old democrats.... how can it be?  Everyone knows that democrats are sensible, reasonable, and peaceful!)
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480448 tn?1426948538
Rivil, I agree we've beat this horse to death a few times, but that's only to be expected when it's a topic that so many feel strongly about on both sides.  I think we all have pretty strong opinions about this, and a lot of us have our own personal experiences (good and bad) to draw on, which intensifies our views that much more.

I feel strongly enough that I wouldn't mind seeing unions go bye-byes in general, but if revamping is more fair, that's fine, I'm game.  Something needs done though.  These recent stories are just outrageous (the Chrysler plant as just one example).

I think, while some of you may disagree, states becoming "right to work" states will help with that re-vamping.  Unions WOULD have to be held more accountable, be less concerned about money, and more concerned about workers.  They would need to sell people on joining...so they're going to have to make people see the value in it.  Especially when some union dues are pretty steep.  People aren't going to want to hand over their money if they're not sold on the purpose of the union.  I think it's great...no one takes the unions away, people just make it a choice.  I think that's a perfect idea.  Yes, of course the unions wouldn't be happy about that...that's a given, because they run the risk of seeing their membership #'s decline.

Last comment..I TRULY think that some people hold onto the unions so tightly, almost like a security blanket, out of some misplaced fear.  They've convinced themselves they would be treated just HORRIBLY without the union...that all he** would break loose without them.  I wish people would realize that, in the grand scheme of things....the really big and important stuff they think the union is protecting them from...they wouldn't be able to do much anyway.  Plenty of people function in jobs, get paid and treated fairly, with no union in play.  

This will level the playing field a bit too.  I think it's abusive that union positions will pay sometimes up to 50% more than a non-union worker of the exact same caliber.  That's a big issue in the construction field...and it creates a lot of dissention between union and non-union guys.  Also, union contractors have a HUGE advantage when bidding for jobs.  My hubby stopped trying to get gov't prevailing wage projects ages ago...they go to the union EVERY single time, and that's wrong.  The very issues they claim to protect (discrimination, fair wages, equal opportunities), they actually create for other people.

I would like to keep an eye on the MI situation.  I'm curious to see if the UC numbers improve.  

I'm putting my stick down...I've whacked this horse enough!  :0)
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
teko: Just heard last night that there was something on the ballot, which was to ban this right to work legislation and it didn't pass. So I guess you can say it was on the ballot.
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973741 tn?1342342773
I'm ready too.  Didn't mean to insult anyone that is a teacher and part of the union.  Knowing what I do of you Rivll, I'm sure you were/are an excellent teacher.  

I have very valid reasons for being against teacher's unions though.  

I guess if we want to change subjects, these stories will have to stop being in the news?????  It's current events and these things are in today's news so they get posted and everyone wants to weigh in on it I guess.  
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163305 tn?1333668571
Thank you rivil for some common sense.

Let's change topics, I'm ready.
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Avatar universal
As a teacher, I always had a choice to pay my union dues and I happily paid them. I never needed heir help but it was nice knowing they had my back if there something came up.
It really makes me weary.
We have all been over this union stuff how many times???
Everyone has agreed there are abuses, everyone agrees changes need to be made. Many of us do not want to ""throw the baby out with the bath water."
How many times to we need to hammer our points until we all have freaking headaches and have not said added one bit of helpful information to the issues of workers rights?
History has demonstrated that you cannot count on the goodwill of your employers. What is happening in the 3rd world countries to workers w/o representation is largely due to companies in the U,S. not wanting to pay the cost of a living wage and the cost it would take to ensure that the workers are protected from unsafe working conditions.
Yes there are serious abuses by the Unions that need to be worked on. No one is arguing that point.
Why not say that changes need to be made and maybe focus on what and how those changes could be made without beating this poor dead horse again.
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973741 tn?1342342773
I'd pay money to bust the teacher's union in my state.  It does not benefit students or the community.  So, I'm a little biased, I guess.  Revamping is fine if we can't ditch them all together.  
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163305 tn?1333668571
Honestly I don't entirely understand it. I do think people should have a choice and I do think unions serve a good purpose though some need revamping.

What I do know is that many people are upset about this and I do believe big business is trying to bust unions which gives people little recourse to being treated unfairly.

Helpful - 0
973741 tn?1342342773
I'm not on the far right but do not care if unions go to the wayside.  

Anyway, glad there is a law that says I don't have to join a union.  I don't think that if someone has no choice in what a union does such as their pay being included in negotiated deals for all in a job should have to pay the union for it.  Maybe someone feels like it is of benefit to the place they work to NOT get a pay raise and they are worried about lay offs, etc.  But the union plunges ahead and raises are given.  The employee had no choice in what the union did, they shouldn't have to pay a fee for it.

My opinion, any way.
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480448 tn?1426948538
I don't get it either.  Everyone is in an uproar about people wanting to get rid of unions, and how wrong it is...fine.  This isn't getting rid of unions, it's giving people a choice.  Win-win.

There's a lot of double standards in play here.

Why should people be forced to join a union if they don't want it?  If people do, it will still be an option for them.  Right now, if someone didn't want any part of a union, certain jobs would be off limits...with this kind of set up, anyone could go after the job.

Someting like this doesn't need a ballot.  Nothing it being taken away...instead a choice is being offered.  Either an employee joins the union, or they don't.  Where is the problem?  Lots of other states are "right to work".

They should all be legislated out of existence. .

I actually agree with you, el...but in the sake of fairness, this is a nice option where people aren't forced to join a union when they would rather not...and yet, it's still not good.  Don't understand that.


Is not having to join and pain a union a strong arm tactic? .

Of course it is, basically.

I just REALLY don't understand the opposition to this.  If anything, it's a perfect solution....people can choose whether or not they join a union...and unions can continue doing what they do for those who decide to join.

In a union, you are obligated to pay union dues.  Right to work means that you can have a choice to pay union dues or not.  (Even with union representation, if you enter into litigation with your employer, it is very common to incur costs for lawyers.)

Well said brice.

This is also a good way to take some of the abused power away from the unions, too.  Maybe they'll start doing what they're SUPPOSED to do if they know people aren't REQUIRED to join.  Maybe they would think twice about backing employees who think it's ok to drink and get high on their breaks.  The unions will actually have to sell people on joining, rather than just handing them the contract and taking their money.

It will bring accountability, and that's a good thing.
Helpful - 0
163305 tn?1333668571
This is an attempt by the far right to get rid of unions altogether, it isn't about choice.
Thousands of people are protesting in Michigan, not politicians, but the populace.
                                     *        *
   Joshua Holland explained , so-called “right to work” laws, which are being proposed in Michigan, “allows workers who choose not to join the union to take advantage of the union's representation without chipping in to cover the costs. And that effectively defunds the union.”

Salon’s Josh Eidelson explains further :
“Contrary to much rhetoric – and some reporting – U.S. law already prevents workers from being required to join a union or pay dues, per se. The issue is whether non-members, whom the union is still legally required to negotiate for and represent at work, can be required to pay representation fees.”

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/michigan-house-approves-anti-union-bill-massive-protests-erupt
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973741 tn?1342342773
Oh yes, I'm a propaganda machine.  LOL  Yeesh.  It's a simple question and I haven't really talked about Michigan at all but am just asking a question in reference to the subject matter.  You do not have to answer if it is upsetting.  :>)
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Avatar universal
I give up. Propaganda has won. Im done
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973741 tn?1342342773
So, are you saying it is not a good idea to have a choice when going to work for a company whether or not you join the union?
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