Good job lefties. Knock down real life experiences as anecdotal.... That way you can pretend it doesn't happen! I like that. You guys should run for public office.
"Even if caught doing something blatant and dangerous, as a manager the only thing I can do immediately is to put them on leave (with pay) while the situation is investigated. " Wow, that's got to be tough..
I agree that touch discharge laws keep the employee from suffering for the boss's bad hair day, or whatever, people not doing their jobs need to be fired; plain and simple.
"Here in La. "Goodbye says it all." " Same, here in FL, because we're a "right to work" state, but people do still have recourse through the court system if they can prove they were treated unfairly.
I won't even go into what I, personally, endured as a union member.
"If someone isn't doing their job, or is abusing drugs, putting others in danger, etc, they don't deserve to have a job......."
Here in La. "Goodbye says it all."
Yep, unless its something very blatant and obvious (such as stealing), you pretty much pay. Like I said, it's a good thing in some cases as it protects people from less then rational supervisors or employers, but the flip side is, a bad employee can be tough tough tough to get rid of. Even if caught doing something blatant and dangerous, as a manager the only thing I can do immediately is to put them on leave (with pay) while the situation is investigated. I know my Agency tends not to fire people, but rather moves them into roles that might be more appropriate. Firing here is a pretty big deal.
Really? A severance package? A severance package is a "reward" in a sense. In my experience, if you don't do your job, you get fired and there's nothing...... no wages, no insurance, no nothing.... you're gone/done; find another job.
Again, from my own experience, severance packages may be given to some who are being laid off, or offered early retirement, etc. But not from being fired for doing a bad job or breaking company rules.
In my last job, there was a guy doing prescription pain meds (both selling and using); lots of times we'd find him in remote places sleeping off the pills; one day he got into an accident and totaled his company van.... he was gone - no severance package, no addiction counseling or anything. He'd been with the company long enough to have a pretty good retirement account, but was nowhere near retirement age, so he lost all of that.......
If someone isn't doing their job, or is abusing drugs, putting others in danger, etc, they don't deserve to have a job.......
We have very very strict guidelines and policies around firing people in Canada, and I can tell you that it is a double edged sword. Of course, you can fire anyone if you are prepared to give them enough money.
The Pros - it of course protects people from being fired for non legitimate issues such as racial predjiduce, or a supervisor just not liking someone, or even just having a bad day.
The Cons - it is unbelievably difficult to get rid of a poor performing employee. Some examples.....
You first have to give a documented verbal warning specific to the issue. That is followed by minimum 2 written warnings, very specific to the issue and signed off by the person being warned. Termination would be next step, but you still have to give a decent severance package, and even then they might fight you.
If the employee claims stress, hardship, or even addiction, counseling and stress leave must be offered (insurance or EI pay this, so not out of employers pocket).
It is really really hard. It's a good thing in many ways, but if you've got someone you legitimately need to deal with, really really hard.
"
Got it.
I'll try to censor my opinions to only things I read. "
Yes, because the last thing we need to hear about is Real Life Experiences. Don’t you know if you it isn’t Copied and Pasted from the Internet, it has no Value?
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And while I could tell you anecdotal things my husband talks about while doing business with Germany (and that his company is German based), I will spare you------ here is some information on the contraction of their economy that was recently released.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp-growth
Okay, back to my small small world. (admittedly, I'd never leave the house if I didn't have to.)
http://siegwart-law.com/Sgal-en/lawyer-german-employment-law-germany.html
Just read through the difficulty of firing someone in Germany. Better?
Got it.
I'll try to censor my opinions to only things I read.
"My husband..." - wow, I have to say that sounds just like all the anecdotal evidence that comprises 99% of the CE rights supporting data. I didn't think I'd hear that stuff from you - no, I really didn't. What is it with you guys? Don't you ever read anything - ever? I would hate to think you all live at the ratio of your personal experience because, regardless of how worldly you happen to be, that is a rather limited perspective.
Europe just needs to raise their taxes, and make all of their illegal residents, LEGAL.
MO money!!! MO money!!! MO money!!!
Hey wait a minute... that's what we need to do HERE!!!!!!!
President Obama??? Are you listening?!?!?!?
Oh wait... damn.
Yep, except for the part about Europe having issues. So many countries there are way way down for exports and imports which is a key factor for economies. They do indeed provide many items for their citizens but they also are faltering in other areas that eventually will mean they can't anymore.
ha ha, well. Intesting. My husband has a list of about 3 guys he needs fired in Germany for not doing their job. Can't get it done. They have laws that pay workers for one to two years after being fired so it rarely happens. That's just some 'real life' for you from a person that works with German employees. Europe has a lot of problems.
"German workers in SMEs also all have quality, affordable health care. In the U.S., many workers in SMEs tend to have inferior health care if they have it at all. American apparel workers employed by SMEs are likelier to work in sweatshop-like conditions, with Sweatshop Watch reporting that "67% of Los Angeles garment factories don't pay their workers minimum wage or overtime." Workers in Germany's SMEs are not subjected to such deprived conditions."
"All of these components have allowed the German manufacturing and export sectors to enjoy a sterling reputation around the world, and contributed greatly to Germany being the world's fourth-largest economy with a sizable trade surplus. And Germans have harnessed that wealth to foster an equitable and broadly shared prosperity that has given Germans an enviable living standard."
Unions are not needed when companies and Governments do their job.
Only around a fifth of employees in Germany are union members, and union density has fallen sharply since the early 1990s,
Yes, I have been polled but not often - maybe 2 or 3 times.
Really, I shouldn't post. I'm just being silly and not very serious here.
Good for Obama. Polls are that interesting thing that change like fair weather fans love or ditch their favorite footbal team. There are good days and bad days based on certain things. At least that is how I always look at it. Celebrate the good days but don't get a big head and minimize the bad days and don't get too discouraged.
wowie, I see we are cheerful here today. LOL
Have you really been polled mikesimon? I honestly never have. Once they asked me when I was in my mid 20's to do the nielsen ratings and i declined because at the time, it felt intrusive. Missed my chance to be heard on something!!
Well, I guess I get to vote so I'm heard. I'll quit being a cry baby. (phrase used lovingly)
Apparently you are the only one who read or who understood or who was interested in the "wages" post.
It does make one question the conventional republican wisdom - if you can call it "wisdom".
I'm at work and I don't really have the time to "Nit Pick" so I may have over looked the explanation of the missing 10%.
I always get polled and I always say the right thing too.
55 vs. 35-------- gap of 20%. Were they neutral?
Don't you wonder who they poll on these things though?? I swear I never get asked.