I just heard this man on the radio, again talking about the horrible living conditions of the Palestians in the Gaza strip, living in inhumane conditions including not enough drinking water.
This blog is dedicated to tearing down the separation wall and transforming the Israeli apartheid system into a secular democracy, where Israelis and Palestinians will live as equal citizens. As an Israeli that was raised on the Zionist ideal of a Jewish state, I know how hard it is for many Jews and Palestinians to let go of the dream of having a state that is exclusively “our own.” The articles, the stories and the pictures in this blog are meant to make a single point: For the good of both nations, the Separation Wall must come down, the Israeli control over the lives of Palestinians must be defied so that a secular democracy where all Israelis and Palestinian live as equals be established in our shared homeland.
The State of Israel today is governed in a way that cannot be sustained, where the two nations it governs, Israelis and Palestinians are used and abused and it is a state of affairs that should not be tolerated: Half of the population is governed by a radical Zionist regime that sees the struggle for control over the land as a zero sum game, and the other half of the population is governed by the security forces of this Zionist regime; one nation ruling over another while controling of the land and its resources. It is a reality where half of the population lives in what it thinks is a Western democracy while keeping the other half imprisoned by a ruthless defense apparatus that is becoming more violent by the day.
I will respond more thoroughly to this post after the weekend, but I will note that many Israeli Jews live in squalor as well. Abject poverty is not limited to Gazans.
My son who is not considered part of the impoverished, but rather middle class lives with hi wife and 3 children in a tiny one bedroom apt. at the top of a 6th floor bldg. with no lift. They walk and take buses and do not buy anything but the bare necessities for food.
I do not deny that some Palestinians, esp. in Gaza do not suffer hardship. but are provided with a lot of aid from the U.S and there is medical coverage.
The wall went up as a result of suicide bombers being sent into Israel to kill people frequently.
Nevertheless, I will work on this and get you more balanced links to peruse at your leisure.
I ask that in the meantime you work on a little more balance in your posts as well.
And before you start another tirade against what is happening as being Israel's fault check out this link and remember even if you hate these people my child and grandchildren are going through this terror as we sit here comfortably talking about "apartheid"-by the way take a look of a map of the middle east while you are at it and see how many friends this so called oppressive people have and furthermore until it suited their purposes the Arab world did *nothing* to help their Palestinian brothers in terms of aid-
Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu issued a statement to the international media
injured baby kiryat malachi
Baby injured from Missile attack in Kiryat malachi
Thursday afternoon, in which he said Israel would continue to do its best to avoid civilian casualties on the enemy side, despite the fact that the enemy is targeting Israeli civilians and hiding behind its own. He also thanked world leaders for "understanding" Israel's right to defend itself.
"In recent days and weeks, Hamas and the other terrorist organizations in Gaza have made normal life impossible for over one million Israelis," he said. "No government would tolerate a situation where nearly a fifth of its people live under a constant barrage of rockets and missile fire, and Israel will not tolerate this situation. This is why my government has instructed the Israeli Defense Forces to conduct surgical strikes against the terrorist infrastructure in Gaza.
"And this is why Israel will continue to take whatever action is necessary to defend our people.
"I want to remind you that seven years ago, Israel withdrew from every square inch of Gaza. Now Hamas, they took over the areas we vacated. What did it do? Rather than build a better future for the residents of Gaza, the Hamas leadership, backed by Iran, turned Gaza into a terrorist stronghold. They fired thousand of rockets at our cities, at our towns, at our civilians, at our children. They've smuggled thousands of rockets and missiles into Gaza, and they deliberately place these rockets and missiles in civilian areas: in homes, in schools, near hospitals. This year alone, they fired over one thousand rockets and missiles at Israel, including close to 200 rockets in the last 24 hours.
"I'm stressing this because it's important to understand one simple point. There is no moral symmetry; there is no moral equivalence, between Israel and the terrorist organizations in Gaza. The terrorists are committing a double war crime. They fire at Israeli civilians, and they hide behind Palestinian civilians. And by contrast, Israel takes every measure to avoid civilian casualties. I saw today a picture of a bleeding Israeli baby. This picture says it all: Hamas deliberately targets our children, and they deliberately place their rockets next to their children. Despite this reality, and it's a very difficult reality, Israel will continue to do everything in its power to avoid civilian casualties.
From what I have heard, the pres, sec of state and others have been busy on the phone trying to get this situation to calm down. I fear it may have gone too far for that. If Israel is witholding its ire, Im sure if the situation continues the way it is for much longer, it will go all out war. I cannot say I blame em either. I saw the article about the child being killed. Horrible!
I don't hate anyone.
The man I heard on the radio this morning is an Israeli. He wants to see peace in the region both for Israelis and Palestinians.
I know you used to live there, and I know your son still does.
But as always, there is more than one side to any story.
No doubt there are atrocities committed on both sides just as there are wonderful caring people who are Israeli and who are Palestinian.
When a man such as Miko Peled speaks of horrible living circumstances for those in the Gaza strip, I listen.
It is not all propaganda though I would not doubt there being some. Too many witnesses, eye witnesses attest to the fact.
I know this is indeed a very sensitve topic, and my prayers go out to those of you who have family in the affected area...I'm just a bit confused..
Rivil ad OH, what exactly are you disagreeing about? I'm not very familiar with all of the politics and reasons behind ll of the strife in that region, I was just curious, where is the breakdown, and is that something that is similar THERE?
Genuine and sincere question...if it's too much to talk about, please, just disregard.
My dear friend here, Rivil is having some health issues, which is besides the fact. But it explains why she may choose to not engage in this subject right now.
She also has an emotional connection to the situation, having family living in Israel.
I am concerned with the reports I hear about the horrible treatment of the Palestinians living in Gaza and the way they are treated by the Israeli army.
Rivli claims that most of that is propaganda.
What I find distressing is this...You will quote from an Arab newspaper, KPFA and M.Peled and you think you know the story...if Hamas were to take Israel and make it theirs, any Arab woman would immediately have to cover up, be accompanied in public always by a male relative, could be stoned for adultery, could be stoned for making love, gays would be killed. Do you understand who you are defending???
We are not talking about the people--- I am Talking about their LEADERS. Their leaders are against everything we hold dear and they are against Jews...
M.Peled is a liar. However I believe there are half truths. Israel has not done right by the people in Gaza, there are legitimate issues. But when you focus on a pic. of a dead baby from Gaza and talk about the war you deliberately misrepresent Israel and the conflict at hand.
Of course I will back up these statements as you wish, but filling in all these links interfere with making my point or that's how it feels.
Hawk, it will say a lot for us if our friendship can endure this
I see things online or hear them on the radio. I make no pretense of having an inside view. I present them here for discussion.
You dear are biased about this subject, understandably so.
I'm not defending anyone and I've never read an Arab newspaper and I certainly am not defending Hamas.
Sorry if I gave you that impression.
From what I understand, people in Gaza are suffering.
I've seen documentaries and listened to news from journalists. It is the people that concerns me.
If you think we are discussing leaders than I think we are talking about different things.
If you want to talk about the leaders than I'd say both are at fault for not seeking to find a way towards peace.
How can you call this man M Peled a liar ? I never heard of him until today. He came across as very intelligent and concerned.
How do you know that what you saw wasn't propaganda about the Palestinians to sway the Israelis ?
I'm not saying it was but it wouldn't be the first time a government used propaganda on it's own people to convince them that 'those people' were the other, the enemy.
Rivil, I like you, but your strong feelings about this has made it practically impossible for CE to have a discussion about the situation.
The last thing I want to do is argue especially, since I know that I only know a smidgeon about what is going on.
I don't see anyone else having a discussion.
You barge in with your notions based on extremely biased sources.
You are bringing up a sad and unresolved issue at a time that Israel is being attacked by hateful enemies. Perhaps it would have been wiser to bring this up when the existence of Israel is not directly threatened.
Of course I am biased, what do you think??? I have no pretenses about my bias. I will not righteously assert that Israel is blameless regarding some issues concerning the Palestinians. However , I do see a much larger picture and I do know that Israel is the most humane and democratic country in the region and perhaps the world.
I have said before I welcome input from others. If everyone feels as you do, fine I will argue my points I simply ask that you don't make generalizations about the country based on your few far left sources.
If the forum does not want to discuss your issues then again I say so be it. I am happier not having to drag myself through this at this most trying time.
Try not to speak for others here--I will abide by whatever the folks here want to do with the issue.
I would think the primary concern would be how it effects the U.S. and that is a far less volatile issue. I also don't have a problem with America staying out of it I hardly expect people to rally around a country they have little investment or interest in.
So, back to you and your agenda. While this war is going on, if you want to focus on a part of the picture rather than a more balanced and complete picture, then I will fight you on it.
If this is no longer a CE topic, then let us get off it.
The shooting war is what has everyone's attention today, but the deeper issue is where the $ comes from to fund Palestinian rocket attacks and where the $ has come from to make that strip of land one of the most densely populated spots on the planet. Follow the $ to figure out who is really attacking Israel.
Thank you desrt. Your post took me from chaos and despair to a level where I might actually learn something.
From my perusals it seems that most of the $ comes from Saudi Arabia. They are not known for their strong stand on human rights, so I am wondering what their motivation is? I will continue to dig.
I wasn't surprised to read that Israel too contributes to the humanitarian aid, actually delivering cash to Gaza.
Thank you desrt, thank you so much for taking this issue out of the fire.
I don’t have time to post much. So I have to keep it Short and Sweet. From the News I’ve watched, I’m not buying into the Biased the Media Krap. CNN made me want to throw something through the TV this morning. <<<100% Supporting Israel.
Thanks guys, for your input. This is understandably a very hard topic, especially for rivil, as she has loved ones there. Must be very scary, I'm sure you're worried all the time, I'm so sorry.
This seems like one of those situations where it is nearly impossible to know the full extent of what is going on. These two nations have been at odds forever, it really is a shame that more can't be down to allow them to co-exist as neighbors, peacefully. I pray that can happen.
Such an incredibly difficult situation. Hope I didn't upset anyone with my questions, this is just one area I'm not real knowledgeable about, other than the basic long standing issues.
You are all dear hearts and I have a lot of love n my heart for y'all-yes, even cyber ppl. I know you are ll real ppl behind this screen and I have taken much joy in the humour and learning and sharing.
Conflicts are inevitable.
I am not handling it well right now for the obvious reasons, but if you can forgive me for being such an emotional being, I readily forgive any perceived hurts (even if you don't forgive me, it is okay. I don't have energy to hold grudges)
I learn so much from each and every one of you.
In the end when stripped down to our bare souls we have only our love and our gratitude.
I'll be around. sending lots of warmth.
It is a very different thing when a situation such as this is impacting you in such a personal way. Heck, I responded strongly myself to another thread for the same reasons. We are human, and for you, this is very real - your family is there.
Always love ya Rivil, and I hope your family and friends there stay safe. I'lll keep them in my thoughts and prayers.
I also don't believe I have taken sides, and I am actually Canadian. I have said on more then one occasion that I hold responsible the gov't's and not the people. In most conflicts, anywhere, it is a small group or gov't control that starts this. If left to just the average people, I'm sure they would do a much better job of working things out. Power is usually behind these things, and it's sad all the way around. Ultimately, if there is a full scale war. no one wins. Innocent good people will die.
Being the emotional being that I am, friend, I wept when I read your post. Thank you for using your beautiful heart and mind to see this. It makes me so much more willing to hear your previous concerns.
Funny how that is.
Light and love
I try to see things from many different perspectives believing there is always more than one side to a story and in fact, there are usually many.
I've thought I understood the Israeli side, both about the need for a state, about the problem with Palestinian extremists, suicide bombs, etc.
What I haven't understood and no longer want to discuss, with you, as you are too emotional and personally touched by the situation, is what is happening with the Palestinian people in Gaza, and I don't mean Hamas.
As the rockets continue to fall in Israel and Gaza, it is important to understand Hamas’s tactic and how the international community and the media are encouraging it.
Hamas’ tactic is as simple as it is criminal and brutal. Its leaders know that by repeatedly firing rockets at Israeli civilian areas, they will give Israel no choice but to respond. Israel’s response will target the rockets and those sending them. In order to maximize their own civilian casualties, and thereby earn the sympathy of the international community and media, Hamas leaders deliberately fire their rockets from densely populated civilian areas. The Hamas fighters hide in underground bunkers but Hamas refuses to provide any shelter for its own civilians, who they use as “human shields.”
I hear the firepower is being supplied to hamas from Iran. So he darts in, starts a fight, sits on the sidelines and waits for the super powers to get involved hoping Israel will be wiped off the earth by one of them? Simple analogy I know, but I sure do hope someone is watching what Iran is doing besides creating a diversion.
Cowardly and cunning. Not to be taken lightly at all.
It is my understanding that Hamas are militant Palestinians and control the palestinians.
On Nov. 14, 2012, Israel launched an air campaign against targets associated with Hamas, the hardline Palestinian party that has ruled Gaza since 2007. It was the first major conflict between the two since Israel’s Operation Cast Lead killed about 1,400 Gazans in three weeks of air and ground assaults in response to repeated rocket fire starting in December 2008.
My understanding is much the same as Tekos. Hamas operates as a dictatorship of sorts, and it's also a recognized terrorist organization, is it not? Kind of like the Taliban in Afghanistan. The majority didn't support them either, but were to afraid to speak out? Perhaps it is much the same?
The Iran connection bothers me as well. And behind Iran is Russia and China it seems.
I don't believe the Israeli gov't to be innocents in all of this, it does take 2 to tangle. But I don't think Hamas will be happy until Israel is gone. That doesn't make negotiation possible. The whole situation is scary as all get out. I'm watching updates on this right now, and find it all terrifying.
I doubt Israel is going to want to open that can of worms, but who knows! THAT is a scary thought. This whole thing is just sad.
I heard that the two sides are working this am torwards a "cease fire" agreement. Did you see the CBS news reporter (female) who was the ONLY American and the ONLY woman in the press room of Hamas? Oh my...she had to YELL to be heard, it looked scary! After that, they called her a "hunter".
His reply to her question was disturbing too. I'll see if I can find a link, well worth watching, it was nuts! That chick has got BALLS!
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