Sigh~ yet another teen killed by a cop ( protests follow action)

[orphanedhawk]

Lawyer: No confidence in system if police don't share name of officer who shot teen

Ferguson, Missouri (CNN) -- Ferguson police will not release the name of the officer who shot a teenager in the St. Louis suburb because of threats made to another officer who was falsely accused on social media of being the shooter, Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson said Tuesday.

The department had said Monday that it would release the name, the same day federal civil rights investigators and the FBI opened an inquiry into the case of 18-year-old Michael Brown, who was killed Saturday.

Witnesses say the teen was unarmed and his hands were in the air demonstrating that. Police have said that Brown attacked the officer in his car and tried take his gun.

At a news conference, Benjamin Crump, the attorney for Brown's family, blasted the department's decision to withhold the name. He was flanked by numerous African-American leaders, including the Rev. Al Sharpton. Brown's father also stood behind Crump.

Michael Brown's friend describes shooting Father: 'I just want justice for my son' Fatal shooting sparks looting, violence
"That doesn't give the community confidence. That doesn't make it transparent," Crump shouted, adding that if law enforcement is going to ask residents of Ferguson to obey the law, "then it's got to work both ways."
A vigil for the teen devolved into violent clashes with police Sunday as some looted stores. On Monday night, there was chaos again on the streets of the suburb of 21,000, which is predominantly black. Shots were fired, authorities said, and police used tear gas to disperse a crowd.

Sharpton stepped to the microphones Tuesday and urged that people in Ferguson not "betray the gentle giant" that Brown was by allowing their anger over his killing to lead to violence. "Don't be a traitor to Michael Brown in the name of 'you mad,' " Sharpton said, reminding that Brown's parents are planning a funeral for their son, whom they had expected to head to college this week.

When it came time for Michael Brown Sr. to talk, he bowed his head and his voice was far less thunderous than Crump's or Sharpton's. "I need justice for my son," he said.

Do the "right thing," he added, saying that he understood that people had their "different pains" and "losses, too." But refrain from acting out aggressively and protest peacefully, he urged.

U.S. President Barack Obama echoed calls for calm, releasing a statement expressing condolences to the teen's family and describing his death as heartbreaking.

"I know the events of the past few days have prompted strong passions. But as details unfold, I urge everyone in Ferguson, Missouri, and across the country, to remember this young man through reflection and understanding," Obama said. "We should comfort each other and talk with one another in a way that heals, not in a way that wounds."

cont:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/12/us/missouri-teen-shooting/

[orphanedhawk]

Brilliant ! We need you to resolve these issues !
Now, what are you going to do about the militarization of our police forces ?

[el_em_en_oh]

Firing-squad for Officer Darren Wilson at the hands of Michael Browns family.

Seems only fair.

Protests will go away. Rioting & looting will go away.

Problem solved.

Officer Wilson, please fall on your sword for the sake of justice & peace, please.

[Vance2335]

An investigation into crimes do not take 30 minutes to do. This happened at night and then they have been dealing with protests/riots/looting.

Did you expect info to come out the next day? And the info given doesn't even matter to what happened.

And the name should not have been released until/if he is charged with a crime.

[teko]

Okay, so now (6 days later?), The police chief comes out and names the officer and has a packet for the media that includes stills from a robbery of cigars at a local convenient store shortly before Brown was shot. It appears someone, meeting browns description along with his friend (forgot his name), took some cigars and had some kind of scuffle with the worker at the store.

From all appearances, altho the photos are grainy, the outfit matches the outfit brown was wearing in both the shooting and the robbery.

What went on at the scene of the shooting is still not clear, as the officer account as well as the witnesses account are totally different.

I am wondering why, it took 6 days after the fact to release this? Something isnt right yet, I dont know what.

For me, it has opened up more questions with no answers. News still breaking.

[Vance2335]

Well the officers name has been released and now him and his family are in jeopardy.

[Vance2335]

Sorry didn't know that I had to take your word as law.

People say this guy or that guy was a good guy all the time, doesn't make it true.

[teko]

Well gee Vance, Do you mean did I run a background check? No I didnt run a background check! People that knew him say so. Police said he had no prior run ins with the police, (which lends credibility to those statements..) I cannot believe I have to even explain myself.

[Vance2335]

How do you know he was not a thug? Just because someone was dut to start college means nothing.

[Barb135]

See what I mean?  There are so many stories and the truth lies somewhere in all these reports...

Does anyone ever get it all 100% right? I'm just asking that question...

If I were an officer and someone were fighting for my gun (as has been reported, but not proven), I'd think my life might be in danger, but that's just me; I've been known to be somewhat over reactive... so maybe I should just let them have it so they can shoot me, then there would be no doubt?

I'm guessing the cop is in a world of trouble, as well, but he's not the only one at fault.  That's just my guess. Things like this tend to have more than one active participant.

Isn't this a clear case of the necessity for police video at all times..  In the police car, out of it,etc?   Somewhere, there should be video of what happened; I can't believe there isn't...

[mikesimon]

I have heard nothing credible that suggests that the officer's life was ever in danger. I heard that he shot an unarmed young man at a distance of 30 feet. We'll see how this shakes out but my best guess is that cop is in a world of trouble.

[Barb135]

"There is no video, no pictures to prove the officer did or didnt scuffle in the car, or that the victim went for the gun. Its all heresay (sic) at this point. So who to believe?"  Therein lies my point -- there are too many conflicting stories and the truth lies somewhere in the middle...

At the risk of being picky, Ferguson is not a county, it's a suburb of St Louis, in St Louis County and has its own police department, which was already displaced by St Louis County Police, which has now been displaced by Missouri State Troopers.

The only thing we know for sure right now is who in charge on the scene and that could change in by the time I hit the "Post A Comment" button.

"Until some facts emerge in this, I dont see anything being resolved."  You got it...

[teko]

I only heard the testimony of the witnesses that were there, including the young man that was with the victim when it happened. I heard about the police saying the officer had facial wounds, but again its all heresay at this point. Supposedly the victim was trying to get away from the officer after one shot was fired in or near the car, then the officer got out of his car and shot again, at which time the victim turned putting his hands in the air and was shot several more times. This coincides with the other witnesses in the area. There is no video, no pictures to prove the officer did or didnt scuffle in the car, or that the victim went for the gun. Its all heresay at this point. So who to believe? That is what the investigation is supposed to reveal. The autopsy did show that the victim was shot several times but didnt go into it further and will not until toxology reports come in.

They have pulled fergeson county police out of the situation and turned it over to sheriff state department after several incidents of police brutality last night that included 2 reporters being arrested. After that happened, changes were made thruout the day and they are hoping tonight will be better.

Thats all I know for sure at this point. And just saying the officers account is correct, he kept shooting him, even after he raised his hands, according to eye witnesses until he fell and died. So if so, its still murder, the kid was not armed, and was due to start college this week. He was not a thug.

Until some facts emerge in this, I dont see anything being resolved.

[Barb135]

It's been reported that the officer who shot the teen was injured in a confrontation with him prior to the shooting and was treated for facial swelling.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/13/us-usa-missouri-shooting-idUSKBN0GA0Q420140813

"The police say that Mr. Brown was shot during a fight over the officer’s gun."  http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/13/us/ferguson-missouri-town-under-siege-after-police-shooting.html?_r=0

I also saw a report that said there had been a scuffle, inside the officer's car, over the officer's gun and a shot had been fired, with damage to the inside of the vehicle. That doesn't sound like someone just walking down the street.

Some witnesses say that the young men were walking down the street, others say Mr Brown had his hands in the air surrendering when he was shot.  

For the life of me, I can't see a police officer just shooting a person who is walking down the street, without some type of provocation, whether it's justified or not.  If the officer did that, it would be equivalent to a drive by shooting.

There are too many conflicting stories and as is usually the case, the truth, most likely, lies somewhere in the middle.  To totally condemn one side or the other, without all the facts is somewhat irresponsible, at this point.

On another note, here's a video I ran across by a black man about the riots, looting, etc.  It shows that not all blacks agree with what's going on, but I admit I had an issue with part of it, because he referred to some other black people as "apes"... brought other, somewhat offensive, posts to mind.

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/167552-man-frustrated-ferguson-riots-goes-legendary-rant-time-us-change/

[R Glass]

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/167552-man-frustrated-ferguson-riots-goes-legendary-rant-time-us-change/

[teko]

It would appear that all the boys were doing was walking down the middle of the street. Such a crime. I do that every day when I walk my dog.

[orphanedhawk]

The Constitutional Crisis in Ferguson, Missouri

The constitutional crisis that has developed in Ferguson, Missouri, begins as is so often the case with a human tragedy. Michael Brown, an unarmed African-American teenager has lost his life, following an incident—now under investigation not just by local authorities but by the US Department of Justice—in which a witness tells CNN, “I saw the police chase him…down the street and shoot him down.”

When circumstances spin out of control, as they clearly have in Ferguson, it is essential always to remember the human element at the heart of the matter. In another time and another place, the singer Peter Gabriel nailed this with the gripping refrain of “Biko,” his anti-apartheid anthem that steadily reminded the world, “A man is dead, a man is dead.”

What has evolved since the death of Michael Brown, however, illustrates the challenges that arise when law-enforcement officials fail to fully recognize and embrace their dual responsibility: to maintain public safety while at the same time guaranteeing the rights of Americans to speak, to practice journalism, to assemble for the purpose of making demands on those in power.

Missouri Governor Jay Nixon, a former state attorney general, seems to recognize that something had gone badly awry, After another turbulent night in Ferguson, the governor finally cancelled appearances in other parts of the state on Thursday and announced he was going to the community where heavily armed police have confronted, arrested and detained protesters and journalists.

“The worsening situation in Ferguson is deeply troubling, and does not represent who we are as Missourians or as Americans,” declared Nixon, a Democrat who has been urged to intervene. “While we all respect the solemn responsibility of our law enforcement officers to protect the public, we must also safeguard the rights of Missourians to peaceably assemble and the rights of the press to report on matters of public concern.”

Missouis Senator Claire McCaskill went further, saying: "We need to demilitarize this situation — this kind of response by the police has become the problem instead of the solution. I obviously respect law enforcement’s work to provide public safety, but my constituents are allowed to have peaceful protests, and the police need to respect that right and protect that right."

When President Obama spoke about Ferguson on Thursday, he too highlighted constitutional concerns. While the president said there was "never an excuse for violence against police or for those who would use this tragedy as a cover for vandalism and looting," he emphasized that there is “no excuse for police to use excessive force against peaceful protests or to throw protesters in jail for lawfully exercising their First Amendment rights. And here in the United States of America, police should not be arresting or bullying journalists who are just trying to do their jobs.”

It is getting difficult to keep count of the number of constitutionally defined protections that have been undermined and neglected in Ferguson. Surely, most lists begin with evidence of a disregard for the promise of equal protection under the law. But they do not end there. The reports from each new day, and especially from each new night, point to a disregard for the First Amendment that tells us no law shall be made “abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

Law enforcement agencies have a duty to maintain public safety, to arrest and prosecute those who commit crimes, and to take reasonable steps to prevent violence, looting or riots that might threaten communities. But there is a parallel duty to protect against abridgments of First Amendment rights. The balance can be difficult to strike, but it is when the difficulty arises that the striking of the balance is most important.

When the balance is not kept, there is, as Demos president Heather McGhee says, “an affront to democracy” that must be addressed by local, state and federal officials.

“There is nothing more American than a community uniting in the face of tragedy, than ordinary people organizing to peacefully protest injustice,” says McGhee. “The police reaction—to protests of their own violence—has been more violence, less transparency, and an active suppression of first amendment freedoms.”

In Ferguson, there have been chaotic moments. But there have also been sincere efforts by religious and community leaders to peacefully protest police actions. What is unsettling is the extent to which these protests have been met with overwhelming force and responses that appear to rescind basic rights during much of the day. For instance, citizens were told by the police that they should assemble only during daylight hours and protest only in a “respectful manner.”

The American Civil Liberties Union of Missouri correctly labeled that police statement as “a direct attack on protected expressive liberty.”

“The protests in Ferguson are at the core of the First Amendment’s protection because they deal with matters of public concern,” wrote Jeffrey Mittman, the executive director of the Missouri ACLU, in a letter to the Ferguson police chief. The letter notes that “the protests in Ferguson are subject to a heightened protection for the additional reason that they are peaceful and conducted on public streets and sidewalks.”

cont:
http://www.thenation.com/blog/181145/police-overreaction-has-become-constitutional-crisis-ferguson-missouri#

[mikesimon]

"It's the monkey's rioting and looting that I have a problem with."

We all know the history of this specific characterization and it sure isn't color blind.

[Vance2335]

That shooting was not this past Sunday, it was a while ago, but it was a point that we heard nothing about it.

[Barb135]

I read an article this morning that said the officer had facial wounds.  It also said that a shot had been fired inside the squad car, from a scuffle between the officer and someone else.  

There's just too much we don't know about the whole situation, to point fingers at anyone.  

I hadn't read the other story about the baby and others being shot on Sunday... that's a horrible tragedy and I agree that Sharpton and others ought to be speaking out against all of these incidences, rather than picking and choosing the ones that will cause the most racial tension.

[Vance2335]

http://www.riverfronttimes.com/related/to/Shootings/

Where is all the outrage with the shootings in the above link? Where are the riots to black on black killing?

"A shooting Sunday afternoon left a St. Louis woman dead and put three others, including a nine-month-old, in the hospital. Four adults and a baby were in a car in the 2500 block of North Market Street, in the St. Louis Place neighborhood, when unknown suspects opened fire around 12:20 p.m"

Where the F is Al Sharpton when a 9 month old gets shot? Because a police office shot a man who was not armed but was fighting with him you have riots but you don't hear anything when a baby is shot?

Oh so black on black killing is ok? But when a white guy is involved it's racial?

How about we stop pointing out when 1 person dies because of something wrong they did and point out how many innocent people die or are injuried because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Stop trying so hard to make America racist and start looking at the real problem.

[Vance2335]

Did you know that the police officer who shot that man Brown had several facial injuries. So who's story holds more credibility now?

I would like to see apologizes from those who want to jump on the police without knowing the full story.

[Barb135]

Can we ever have a conversation on this forum without someone accusing someone else of being racist just because they said someone else of another color did something they didn't like that might be wrong?  If this small group can't discuss something without it always going to a race issue, why would we expect the entire country, Congress or anyone else to be able to do anything different.  

Can we diss people of another color without being racist?  I think we can. I don't like Michelle Obama's butt, but that has nothing to do with her color; it has to do with her butt... And the President - he has large ears; it's not his fault and has nothing to do with his color... it's just his ears.  Now back to the subject at hand...

I think the whole breaking, entering, looting issue because they're black, frustrated, and nobody is listening blah, blah, blah is a bunch of hokey and a good way to excuse bad behavior.  Sounds like something Al Sharpton might have come up with... I get frustrated all the time and how often do I go out and shoot someone, break into a store and take what I want, bring stuff to my neighbors?  Never, but if I did, who would believe for one minute that it was justified just because I was frustrated and no one would listen to me?  If that weren't so pathetic it would almost be laughable.

I saw pictures, today, of a police line in Ferguson, MO and the people trying to break it weren't all black... my comments aren't about race because I don't care what color these people are.  If they've done something wrong, such as breaking into and looting a store, hurting someone, etc - they've darn well broken the law and they need to be held accountable.  

As OH said, we seem to be seeing more of these incidences, whatever the races; unfortunately, they do often happen to be young people of color.  I agree that there might be an issue with police training in some instances; there might be some stereotyping, which we know is an issue; we also know that when these things come out in the news, we don't get the full story for days/weeks/months - maybe never.

I have a personal concern with this one, because I do have an elderly brother in a "next door neighborhood" to Ferguson.  I visited my brother just a couple weeks ago and those streets are too close for comfort.  If the violence spills over, it's a real cause for concern.  

Again, though, at this point, I don't think this is all black... I saw the police line trying to hold back white people, as well.  Teko is not alone in her thoughts to stand beside these people...

And now that I've said that, I have to qualify it... If I knew the facts of the case and I knew, without a doubt, that the young man had not tried to take the officer's gun (as stated) and was trying to give himself up (as stated by others) but the officer shot him anyway  i.e. if I had all the facts and the officer was wrong, I'd be protesting with them as well, but I darn sure wouldn't be advocating breaking, entering and looting stores, homes, etc. because they're frustrated and nobody is listening!!  

[orphanedhawk]

OMG !

The problem  here is the police that are committing acts of violence and terror.

I'm not ignoring the fact that policing is a hard job but something is definitely wrong with so many police stepping over the line and killing innocent young people, usually of color. The problem has got to be with their training. It's the only thing that makes sense.

[brice1967]

Unbelievable....