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The Holocaust List found
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Founded by HelpinUtah on October 14, 2009
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The Holocaust List found

  This story was aired on CBS on "60 MINUTES" ** about a long-secret German archive that houses a treasure trove of information on 17.5 million victims of the Holocaust. The archive, located in the German town of Bad Arolsen , is massive (there are 16 miles of shelving containing 50 million pages of documents)and until recently, was off-limits to the public. But after the German government agreed earlier this year to open the archives, CBS News' Scott Pelley traveled there with three Jewish survivors who were able to see their own Holocaust records. It's an incredibly moving piece, all the more poignant in the wake of the meeting of Holocaust deniers in Iran and the denial speeches in the UN.

   We're trying to get word out about the story to people who have a special interest in this subject. It is now more than 60 years after the Second World War in Europe ended. This e-mail is being sent as a memorial chain, in memory of the six million Jews, 20 million Russians, 10 million Christians and 1,900 Catholic priests who were murdered, massacred, raped, burned, starved and humiliated with the German and Russian peoples looking the other way! Now, more than ever, with Iran , among others, claiming the Holocaust to be "a myth," it is imperative to make sure the world never forgets. This e-mail is intended to reach 40 million people worldwide! Join us and be a link in the memorial chain and help us distribute it around the world. Please send this e-mail to 10 people you know and ask them to continue the memorial chain. Please don't just delete it. It will only take you a minute to pass this along -

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=2972691n&tag=mncol;lst;9

( I just got this in my email, and thought I'd share it here)
30 Comments
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Thanks OH
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There are people on this planet that think the holocaust is a myth?

Besides Iran, are there other groups that think it's a fabrication/figment???

When I first saw the "17.5M victims of the holocaust" number, I called a b/s in my head. But i was thinking solely of the 6M Jews, and hadn't taken the Catholics, Russians, Christians, etc that had their lives extinguished by the Nazi's in those disgusting camps.

Question (for anyone reading that may know)... should the word "holocaust" be CAPITALIZED, and if so, why is that? Only reason I ask, is that I see it written in articles with a capital "H". Just curious more than anything else.

Thanks for the information OH, by the way.
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There are people right here in the US that think the Holocaust is a myth.
And I am sure there are people in Iran who do not think it's a myth.
When I visited Thailand, it was shocking how few people there knew the history of WWII in Europe. They were selling Tshirts with swastikas on it, not understanding why Westerners were offended.
Perhaps it all comes down to education.

I found myself automatically capitalizing the word, Holocaust,  without thinking.
I'm no scholar but I know that in old English many nouns were always capitalized, and certainly all proper nouns. I'd think a catastrophic event such as this deserves to be capitalized.

People often forget that the Nazi's killed more than Jews.
Many Gypsies, gays and others who were not deemed pure by the regime perished under it's extreme doctrine. I'm sure they would have killed off all of Africa if they'd had the chance.
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It's funny you say that... "...People often forget that the Nazi's killed more than Jews..."

That's a FACT!

I myself sometimes find that I focus on the 6M Jews, and forget about the 20M Russians.

Thanks for posting this. Good reminder. It's something that some people would like to forget, but I think it'd be a disservice and a shame, for anyone to forget about this tragic period in our world history, and disrespectful to those that either gave their lives to try and protect the innocents, and those whose lives were TAKEN.
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Avatar_m_tn
For a guy who repeatedly said he'd vote for Hitler before he'd vote for Obama your sensitivity seems oddly out of place...and somewhat offensive in my opinion.
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When I was in Cambodia the horrible holocaust that happened there struck me somehow as even sadder. Pol Pot killed his own people~ fellow Cambodians.
He tortured and killed anyone with education, anyone who wore glasses was suspected to be educated and met the same fate.
He displaced people from the city to the country forcing them into laboring in the fields, of which they had no experience.

Yes, we must not forget the Holocaust yet it is a good to remember that these horrid things have happened in other places as well~ when you have a mentally deranged dictator with too much power.
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Be nice, everyone's hypocritical sometimes.

If el is showing a softer side, be supportive.
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, is massive (there are 16 miles of shelving containing 50 million pages of documents)

Just mind blowing.

The holocaust museum is a place everyone should see once in their lifetimes.  There are just no words.  I was so deeply moved.  


Be nice, everyone's hypocritical sometimes.

If el is showing a softer side, be supportive. .

I agree!
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When I was in Cambodia the horrible holocaust that happened there struck me somehow as even sadder. Pol Pot killed his own people~ fellow Cambodians.
He tortured and killed anyone with education, anyone who wore glasses was suspected to be educated and met the same fate.

No tragedy should be compared to another tragedy as better or worse.
Mass killing of all people is abhorrent and inexcusable.

The only different I see in terms of Jews being killed as opposed to other peoples is that there is a long history of murdering Jews that did not end with the systematic hunt and murder of the European Jews. For some reason, it just doesn't end. It is the reason, in my opinion that we must never forget and why we must never be silent when any people is being wiped our, whether it be in Dakar, Cambodia or Europe.
It is our job as fellow humans to stand up for each other.
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"No tragedy should be compared to another tragedy as better or worse.
Mass killing of all people is abhorrent and inexcusable. "


True, true.
I should have been more thoughtful in my wording.
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:-)
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You're serious with that comment?

As I've said REPEATEDLY... the "hitler" reference was an extreme example of what I'd be willing to vote for, before voting for B.O.

Doesn't mean I support anything that hitler did, or stood for, or represented.

You can make quite the idiotic statements sometimes, mikesimon. I'm not a whole lot better, but you take the cake.

ANYONE that thought that the hitler references meant that I supported him, or condoned the atrocities which he perpetrated, is an idiot and didn't actually READ what I wrote.

Hitler was a monster, plain and simple.

If anything, it shows how little respect I have for B.O... unless that point eluded you.
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Avatar_m_tn
Your statements showed quite clearly that you prefer a mas murderer and a perpetrator of genocide to Obama. No one initiated any reference to Hitler before you shot your mouth. There was no provocation and there was no equivocation from you either - just a flat out statement that you'd vote for Hitler before Obama.

When you make statements like that el people form opinions of who you are. You might have thought it was clever or illustrative of your dislike of Obama but I found it illustrative of much more than that. It spoke loudly about your character and your lack of sensitivity and your eagerness to offend other members. Now, you want to try and recast your statements but you said what you did and now I've told you how I feel about it. You may not like it but you really do have to own it. There are consequences to our actions and our speech and you'd be well advised to stop and think before you make such indefensible and outlandish statements.
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We know you don't like Obama.
Just like we know Mrs P adores him.

Every time you refer to our president as B.O., I see a 15 year old boy snickering, Beevis and Buthead style, " he said BO !"

As much as I despised Bush, I didn't revert to calling him infantile names.

(For anyone too young to know, bo simply means body odor. Something boys of certain age found hilarious when I was young, it was said along with 'fart' accompanied by lots of giggling.)
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This conversation got rather petty all of a sudden.  
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I'll refer to him simply as "Obama" from now on.

Honestly, just like people used to say "GW", i started saying "BO". Didn't mean anything by it.

Thanks for destroying the thread Mikesimon.

I was relaying GENUINE sentiment, and you destroyed it by being petty and silly.

Dolt.
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I have seen documentaries on this where they were putting masses in houses, gassing them, stripping of the clothing and throwing bodies like garbage into mass graves. I used to have a client that lived thru it and it is very real. Lets just hope that us civilized people are more civilized than we used to be. I guess that is probably expecting way too much tho.
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  Yes I  agree with what you said. Its also essential to keep historical records because there are people who try to deny what occured and also so appropriate efforts can be made to address the long term effects of a historical atrocity. In areas such as Cambodia there are still  many people immediately effected. My family knows some people who are Holocaust survivors and I have spoken with them and some have shared their experience. Its essential to continue to educate people about this who growing up in another generation may not be fully aware of it.
   I also know that some not so distant ancestors of mine were murdered in the Holocaust or in pogroms that occured before then.  The people I know that lived through that time and were allowed to immigrate here then were very glad to have that oppurtunity Unfortunately it was restricted and more could have been done at the time to prevent what was going to occur. I also know that the people who were directely targeted at the time included many groups including people with disabilities. Certain leaders were aware of what was happening and more could have been done to stop it. As well through education and outreach this encourages the public to promote cooperative efforts by various countries to prevent further atrocities against any group.
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Sorry I got caught up in pettiness.
I was enjoying our exchange.

We so often forget how crazily single focused Hitler was with his fanatical belief of an Aryan superior race. If left to him, we'd only have blond haired blue eyed white skinned people.

And you know what that would mean?
No rap, no reggae, no basketball greats !
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I agree with you, ILADVOCATE and it is true about the extemination of people with disabilities. We don't hear much about that, but anyone less than what they considered perfect was subhuman.
Really cannot imagine so much hate.

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I watched a series that's on Netflix, called "The Holocaust". It's a 6-part series. Absolutely AWESOME. It shows how the Nazi's developed the idea of "the camps".

A lot of people think that the final iteration of the camps that the Allies found, was how it always was. Nope. The Nazi's experimented with different set-ups and methods, trial and error, different locations, etc, etc.

Don't get me wrong, my stomach was turning and I was disgusted by what I saw, but again... it's part of WORLD history that shouldn't be forgotten, and I think people should watch the series to educate themselves on just how primal and animalistic and raw and cruel human-nature can be, if left unchecked.

The everyday German actually had NO idea that the camps existed. Just sad, sad, sad that it was going on right under their noses, and a lot of them knew nothing about it.

Good series, if you have the stomach for a REAL and uncensored look into our brutal past.
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That said, hitler WAS a monster, no doubt about it. But some of the people he had WORKING FOR HIM, were even more twisted and sick than he was. Some of the things they came up with and developed, all in the name of "extermination", are both disgusting/cruel, and genius at the same time.

You know how you can't look away from a train-wreck... well the netflix series is the same way. It was disgustingly facinating.

Kinda like watching something on a mass-murderer, on tv. Part of you wants to look away, but you just can't.
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"The everyday German actually had NO idea that the camps existed. Just sad, sad, sad that it was going on right under their noses, and a lot of them knew nothing about it."
I wish you were right on that el. Enough people knew...there were reports going out, ppl begging the allies to bomb the railroad tracks to stop the death trains. The towns near the camps were filled with the smoke of burning flesh almost daily.

What is true is that a lot of people put their heads in the sand. Some were afraid, understandably. Many pretended not to know. We are all familiar with denial. It is what helps us survive in hard times. It is how we justify our existence while living in the midst of terror and savagery.

"I think people should watch the series to educate themselves on just how primal and animalistic and raw and cruel human-nature can be, if left unchecked. "
You are right about how the experience can influence the way we live now and help us to form lives of courage and integrity so that this should never be repeated.
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First they came for the Communists but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists but I was not one of them, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Jews but I was not Jewish so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.
              ~Martin Niemoeller
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All the documentaries I've seen on the subject, basically all say that the public, in general, didn't know it was happening.

That said, there WERE people that lived in towns immediately adjacent to the camps that feigned ignorance, and I'd have to call a bull$hit on them. There's NO POSSIBLE WAY something like that could be going on, without them knowing about it, especially if they lived in a neighboring town.

But the Germans say, in Berlin... do you really think they KNEW what was going on in the camps? It's not like the Nazi's advertised what they were doing. Or were they? Advertising I mean?

There's so much I DON'T know about the subject. This is an interesting, yet disturbing, topic/thread.

Might have to dig around on Netflix and see if I can't find any additional material to watch. Seems there may be a WHOLE LOT MORE for me to learn.
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{German Civilian Knowledge of the Concentration Camps

In their oral history testimonies, letters, questionnaires, interviews, and journals American soldiers explain why they did not accept German protestations of ignorance and innocence. GIs from the 42nd, 45th, 71st, 88th, and 103rd Infantry Divisions, and the 11th Armored Division, and the 69th Signal Battalion all referred to the incredible odor emanating from the camps, claiming that they could smell the stench long before they could actually see the facilities.[1]

Private Margol estimated that camp odors could be detected up to two miles away; he considered the stench far worse than any smell of battlefield dead.[2] Dr. Charles Froug serving with an evacuation hospital, discounted the claim by citizens of Rosenheim that the odor came from a nearby fertilizer factory.

Thomas Hale wrote, “disease – typhus, dysentery, and tuberculosis – was universal. The crematory had been operating around the clock….the stench of death and of piles of human excrement was overpowering, yet the townspeople nearby said they knew nothing of the camp.[3]

Staff Sergeant Malachowsky, at Nordhausen with the 329th Medical Battalion, recalled that “the smell covered the entire countryside…for miles around….when we asked these people in the town…how they could permit such a thing, they said they did not know there was a camp like that next to them.”[4]

Frequently GIs mention the proximity of camps to villages, towns, and cities and emphasize that people living nearby would have known something about the camps.[5] PFC Dalton, with the 89th Infantry Division was quite emphatic. “I do not believe anyone could live that close to such a place and not know what was going on.”[6]....}

http://phdast7.hubpages.com/hub/Waht-Did-Most-Germans-Know-About-the-Nazi-Concentration-Camp-System-Part-II
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When I was growing up in the 60s, there was plenty of actual footage of the horrors that took place in the camps.

No doubt there were Germans who knew what was going on, Germans who knew something bad was going on but not exactly what, and Germans who lived far from the camps and didn't know. Among those who knew, I'm sure many were very frightened lest they too be sent to the camps.

I recall one German man saying he lived near the railroad tracks. When he saw people cramped into one of the cars, he offered some water at which point a soldier stopped him and told him if he did it again, he'd be in the train joining them.

However, this does not take away from the fact that many many Germans who did know, denied that they did, probably from either guilt, fear or misplaced national pride.
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When I was in Germany, I had many educational experiences.  I had often wondered how the average non Jewish citizen in Germany could sit by and let this happen or watch it happen quietly.  This was explained to me by a professor local to a town in which a concentration camp was (and still is there as a musuem to what happened) that there were many psychological componants to it.  That human nature can revert to wanting to feel better than someone else.  That some Germans perhaps did not believe as Hitler did but psychologically gained a feeling of power and superiority over others that gave them a motivating secondary gain to go along with it.  And the other side of it was fear.  The 'better them than me' mentality.  

And denial sometimes is a safe place to hide from reality.  I see people take that route all the time.  Sad.  

I can't imagine going about my life with that happening around me.  
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it IS hard to imagine, the unimaginable.
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What your professor said makes sense to me.  It still goes on today....sort of the "not my problem, so I'll ignore it" attitude.  Until something directly impacts us, it can be human nature to pretend it's not happening.  It's far easier to live that way.  I'm with you, I also cannot just ignore injustices and human beings being treated like they are nothing.  And I don't believe people that do look the other way do it because they don't care.  I think it's just too overwhelming.  

We can never forget what Hitler did to the Jews and others.  As horrific as it was, we have to face it to try to prevent it from ever happening again.  
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