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Avatar universal

The speech

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/12/what-is-a-middle-class-job_n_2664882.html

You hear good things about the economy and then something like this pops up?  What's it going to be?  It is either better or it still stinks... I think we are trying to use too many variables to measure any real progress with the economy.
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Avatar universal
I didnt vote for Clinton. I could not stand the man. Then, but I like him better now. I couldnt stand his wife either, Then, now I think I might even vote for her if she runs.

Im tired of the arguing, been here a long time and the passion has left me.

Who said I was mad? Did I say that?
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Avatar universal
I didnt read that far up, sorry. I posted a wiki document regarding both presidents and their percentage of a win when they were elected, in response to someone saying half the country didnt vote for him comment and what I posted pretty much showed this has been the case more often than not. So I posted for bush and obama and their win percentages, so I guess you can blame it on me.

My point was to say lookie here! It was the same way when Bush won!

Nothing new here. There was half the country that hated him too. No biggie.
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Avatar universal
I think I'm following you, but the same thing can be said about Clinton before Bush.  (I am a democrat and voted for Clinton 2x, Bush1x, and Obama 2x.)  Before Clinton, there were policies that preceded him that are still in effect today.

With all of that out there, it would be far more fair to blame every administration, every congress and every senate for the last 40-50 years for the current state of affairs.  This is a decades long train wreck.

I haven't been around here too long, but I'll respectfully throw out an opinion on your second to last paragraph.  "But every time someone mentions the things that happened, coincidentally under Bush.... everyone flies into a frenzy...."  I think its because there is no defending Bush, nor Clintons deficiencies, the other Bush, Reagan, Carter.... all of those guys have a direct hand in where we're at today and the left seems to want to place everything on Bush.  It makes no sense.  

I've been a registered Democrat for 30 some years, and there is no way I could blame Bush for all of this.  Everyone, counting the current President has a hand in this.  


Why bother trying?  I keep trying because I don't quit.  Maybe I haven't been around here long enough to give up the goat.  People need to quit picking sides and have the ability to look at things reasonably.  We just have to be able to let someone have their own opinion and not be mad at it.

I'd just as soon be mad at the things I can control, like me dropping a damned irrigation pump on my foot this morning.  I've got 4 purple toes and am going to lose 2 toe nails at least.  I grabbed it one handed and the damned thing landed right on the top of my toe knuckles.... that makes me mad.

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973741 tn?1342342773
haha.  I don't know how reasonable adults can see things so differently. someone said a negative comment about obama and his presidency.   I think they said substandard as one description word that I didn't see and that's not a word I'd use but none the less as well as comments about how things will be going at the end of Obama's term and how he'll be remembered----  well 'what about bush' comes up.

It's kind of that 'well, your mother is fat" argument.  

  But . . .   this is seen completely differently by others here so again, I guess I just don't get it.  maybe a walk away for some air will help me see it differently?  I agree that a comparison did start of bush verses obama but that was after bush was thown in there like a 'but your mama is fat' comment.  ????  Okay, off for air to think think think.  WHAT am I missing?
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Avatar universal
Bush has his name brought up because he is the president that preceded this one and it was those policies that were enacted during that time that has resulted in an economic meltdown. Its nothing personal about President Bush as much as people on here like to think it is. It is simply because of the policies that are still in effect and the remaining hangover that still exists trying to straighten everything out again.

Actually, I will make a correction, I voted for both the Bush Boys. And the first one has more respect from me than the second one.

But everytime someone mentions the things that happened, coincidentally under Bush term, everyone flys into a frenzy. I really dont get it. Or everytime someone says something supporting this president, same thing, everyone flies into a frenzy. I really dont get it. It has to be something everyone takes personal, there is no other explannation that makes sense. Either that or you all simply hate everything obama.

That is truly how it appears. We cannot even have a discussion anymore because of all the sensitivity going around, so why bother trying?
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973741 tn?1342342773
That's what I'm saying.  Who's defensive about Bush?  Why are we talking about Bush?  That was so like 5 years ago.  

I honestly don't see anyone defending Bush.  I said that I do believe he thought he was doing what was right for the country----  as I believe Obama is as well.  I think all presidents work from the 'right' place within themselves.  Even if they make huge mistakes.  But I have no love affair with Bush.  I don't say he's a great president and waaa if you say anything bad about him and notice no others doing that.  
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973741 tn?1342342773
Well, that is interesting because it is true, I never enter into defense mode regarding Bush and maybe I am supposed to.  Hm.  I guess I get confused about the defensive reaction at any Obama criticism or doubts.

Oh well.  I was just confused on the subject.  Happens to me occasionally.  Not that big of a deal.  
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1310633 tn?1430224091
If memory serves... Iraq was because of the supposed WMD and Saddam (and his killing off millions of his own citizens in torturous inhumane ways).

So... we started a fight with a bully, and we're still in there fighting.

I know that some tried to connect the dots from Iraq to 9/11, but I'm not sure that gained much traction.

Bush got horrible intelligence, from our "intelligence" agencies (CIA, NSA, etc) and took us into war, based on the now-proven-erroneous information.

It's Bush's fault. He should be put in jail.
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Avatar universal
And I would only add that it seems, there are those, just as defensive when something is said about Bush as those who are defensive about this president.

Some here are huge Obama fans, and then some here are huge Bush fans and obviously equally as sensitive.

Funny how that works.

Just because President Bush is no longer in office does not mean his policies went with him when he left. Obama will make his share of mistakes as well, true. But so far the mistakes that are glaring have not been his imo.

But maybe I feel like that because I share his vision and of course is why I voted for him twice.

In the interim, yep, I support him, and altho I voted for Bush, and argued tooth and nail to his defense when he was president, he proved me wrong in that defense. Obama could very well do the same, but so far he has not.

Time will tell.
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973741 tn?1342342773
I know you are an intelligent man.  I was just questioning how a comment about Obama leads to a comment so often about Bush.  I am thinking it's not that big of a deal and to be expected that not everyone, especially those who have a different take on things politically, would feel differently about any given president during their time in office.  I'm sure there were people who disliked presidents while in office that later when on to think they were actuallly good presidents and others that people supported during their term and later would describe them as not great presidents.  Who knows how it will turn out with Obama.  
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Avatar universal
If I had to venture a guess, I think its because they think the conservatives are comparing the two. The majority of the time that the comparisons start around here is when the liberals bring it up.  

Liberals bashed Bush for 8 years and they cannot stand to hear anyone say anything about the President.  It hurts their feelings and they begin the comparisons and ask us to defend Bush.

I have seen you, el, Rglass, NG, Barb, myself and even Vance say that Bush screwed things up.  You can't find many liberals to do that.... its a rush to blame Bush.  
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Avatar universal
Did anyone watch the documentary Hubrus? Lots of questions regarding Iraq has come to light, with video of people having the conversations included. If not, I highly recommend the book.

I always did wonder tho, how we ended up in Iraq when the 911 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia. That documentary sure did explain it.
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973741 tn?1342342773
Well see, that's the thing.  I know people here are smart and yet that argument comes up.  I honestly don't get that one.  ??  Oh well.

I mean, all presidents deserve respect and I'm not trying to be disrespectful to Obama.  I'm just not convinced that Obama will go down in history as a great/good president.  Time will tell.  
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1310633 tn?1430224091
You should know better than to question the "it's Bush's fault" logic, SM.

When in doubt, and when you have zero argument or anything remotely intelligent to spew... blame it on Bush.

Don't you know that's the fall'back "defense" for the Left, here on CE?

I won't say that it's the fall'back argument for ALL of those on the Left, because there is A smart one out there that's intelligent enough not to throw that hat into the ring (ie: Wallace54).
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973741 tn?1342342773
I still don't get why we are talking about Bush.  The fact that Bush wasn't a great president means that Obama has to be?  Oh, okay.  He gets to be above Bush in terms of presidens and jobs they've done but I honestly don't think he'll go down as a great president.  I haven't seen it yet but I guess he has a few more years.  Honestly, don't get the connection between the constant bush/obama conversation.  For those who are not liberal in their politics, Obama is hard to feel great about.  This doesn't need to be more than that and wow, I hate when prejudice is thrown in there.  I'd have as much problem if Hilary were in office, I'm sure, but then I'd be prejudice against women (like all Republicans.).  

Some here are huge Obama fans and some aren't.  What's the big deal?
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Avatar universal
The fundamental principle of the classical theory is that the economy is self-regulating[1]. No need to throw $6T at it, which turns out to have been a horrible move, because all it did was put us into DEEPER debt.

It's wrong and has been shown to be wrong. It is not self regulating.

You would be well advised to study more than just the cliff notes on the Classical Theory.

I guess it is a start though and we have to start somewhere.
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1310633 tn?1430224091
Are you insinuating that $6 trillion spent in 4 years, wasn't enough?

Seriously... SIX TRILLION DOLLARS wasn't enough?

The fact that the moron though we could BUY OUR WAY out of this mess, was simple minded.

When the market adjusts, you LET IT adjust. You don't spend every last dollar you have, putting yourself into unmanageable debt, to try (and subsequently fail) a arrest it.

The fundamental principle of the classical theory is that the economy is self-regulating[1]. No need to throw $6T at it, which turns out to have been a horrible move, because all it did was put us into DEEPER debt.

Say's Law... read it.

[1]http://www.cliffsnotes.com/study_guide/The-Classical-Theory.topicArticleId-9789,articleId-9741.html
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Avatar universal
I did hear that.  President Obama said we'd be out within 1 year of him being elected.  Apparently he evolved again....
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Avatar universal
Haven't you heard yet? We're getting out of Afghanistan.
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Avatar universal
Respectfully, the liberals used to belly ache about the war in Afghanistan, until it rolled through the first 5 years of Obama's tenure.  Now, not so much.  Now, Afghanistan is warranted.
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Avatar universal
I wonder how the revisionist-history books will be written, in reference to Obama's spending of $6 trillion+, during his first term in office...

They will conclude that it was too little...........but, you'll never see that coming and even when that is proven clear to everyone with a brain you'll still deny it because it's Obama and you have a real deep seated problem with him...and it's not at all about policy or economics.
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1310633 tn?1430224091
I wonder how the revisionist-history books will be written, in reference to Obama's spending of $6 trillion+, during his first term in office... (with nothing to show for it except a stagnant economy, unwavering unemployment#, and an unmanageable deficit).

The books will be written about Bush being a failure, blah, blah, blah, and you won't get an argument out of me. You didn't get an argument out of me DURING his presidency (as I felt he was substandard).

But Obama, the media darling and Price of Thieves... how will history view him, that put us into an estimated $23 trillion dollar hole, before he's finished in 2016?

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Avatar universal
It's not looking good for Bush - that's for sure.
The details of the selling (lying, that is) of the Iraq War are still coming out and it's looking worse and worse for Bush.

I am always confused whether you guys don't read, don't comprehend or are just too prejudiced to see it clearly. The Iraq War - nothing more ever needs to be said - unless Obama lies us into a needless war that will significantly destabilize a region of critical US strategic importance and waste immense treasure and thousands of American lives in the process. If that happens we can analyze it further.
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206807 tn?1331936184
Time will tell. But it's not looking good.
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