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US economy adds 146K jobs, rate falls to 7.7 pct.
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US economy adds 146K jobs, rate falls to 7.7 pct.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-economy-adds-146k-jobs-133151784.html

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The U.S. economy added 146,000 jobs in November and the unemployment rate fell to 7.7 percent, the lowest since December 2008. The government said Superstorm Sandy had only a minimal effect on the figures.

The Labor Department's report Friday offered a mixed picture of the economy.

Hiring remained steady during the storm and in the face of looming tax increases. But the government said employers added 49,000 fewer jobs in October and September than it initially estimated.

And the unemployment rate fell to a four-year low in November from 7.9 percent in October mostly because more people stopped looking for work and weren't counted as unemployed.

The report "is something of a mixed bag but, on balance, it's a positive," said Paul Ashworth, an economist at Capital Economics.
35 Comments
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580755_tn?1357673215
Would like to know how many people stopped looking in November for work and how many of those jobs are part-time/seasonal.
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1530342_tn?1405020090
Can't you just be happy that people are working and unemployment is going down? This is a GOOD thing...Geez you gotta be a downer about everything!
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Avatar_m_tn
"... The Labor Department typically revises its jobs numbers several times. In Friday's report, job growth was revised lower in both September and October, subtracting 49,000 jobs from the 2012 total.

Of the job gains in November, more than a third, or 52,600, came from retailers, but much of that was likely due to temporary holiday hiring.

Economists at the Labor Department try to adjust for seasonal trends like holiday hiring, but this year the raw data showed retailers hired more workers in November than any other month on record since 1939.

Professional business services hired 43,000 workers in November, seasonally adjusted. Health care added 20,000 jobs.

Stock futures turned higher after the report was released."

http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/07/news/economy/november-jobs-report/?hpt=hp_t1
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163305_tn?1333672171
Mrs P, my sentiments exactly.
Vance is Mr. Gobble, growl, grunt.

It's always so nice to see some good news, for a change:)
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580755_tn?1357673215
It's not good news if more people stopped looking for work and most of those jobs will be gone in another month. Sorry for being a realist.
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Avatar_m_tn
You're not a realist. You don't have the facts necessary to support your conclusion or your theory.
Someone who immediately assumes the worst is a pessimist - not a realist - and that's you Vance - a pessimist.
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Avatar_f_tn
Would like to know how many people stopped looking in November for work and how many of those jobs are part-time/seasonal. (Vance)

Of the job gains in November, more than a third, or 52,600, came from retailers, but much of that was likely due to temporary holiday hiring.
(Mike)

Vance was right in pointing out that the gains are partly due to seasonal hiring, so in that statement he was being a realist.
However, I agree that our Vance is a pessimist and tends to dwell on the negative when referring to our present Government.
*Really* not taking sides just trying to avert a pointless argument that will have us all spitting fire.
Or maybe we should be spitting fire...it is too quiet and I am getting sleepy. Time to shut it down and go out.
Have a good weekend, folks.
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Avatar_m_tn
I sure wasn't intending to start a fire or aggravate anyone. I just said what I believe and really don't think it was incendiary at all.

I for one, hated to see the "This is your President" thread get eviscerated like it did. I  thought that it showed that we can work to resolve our conflicts even when the posts get heated like they were if we're left alone long enough. That type of censorship dumbs down the dialogue, treats us like children and tears the passion out of board. I learn from interactions of all types and they don't always have to be sparkling clean either - it's like life and I hate to see it artificially sanitized.

Oh well, tis the season.

Mike
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580755_tn?1357673215
Mike I asked a questions as I would like to know, how many people stopped looking for work and how many of these are seasonal jobs. That is a realist.

Being a pessimist would have me writing, "Oh I bet those are part time and seasonal numbers, I bet millions stopped looking for work". But I didn't again I asked a question in order to gain some more info and be REAL about the situation.

rivll I dwell on the government on a whole based on the do nothing government we have and have had. Not just Obama but under Bush also (for certain things).
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Avatar_m_tn
Seasonal jobs?  

"Of the job gains in November, more than a third, or 52,600, came from retailers, but much of that was likely due to temporary holiday hiring."  

That should give you some idea.

How many people stopped looking? I have no idea.
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649848_tn?1357751184
The "This is Your President" thread was eviscerated, as it was, because it was out of control.  You're welcome to have your disagreements and discussions and I don't even mind if they get heated, as long as they stick to the subject of the thread.  Insults, threats and name calling, or otherwise turning things into a personal attack, are out of line. I even see attempts to do that, in this thread.

That said - back to the subject at hand.  In addition to seasonal jobs, and those that stopped looking, we also have people who are retiring early because companies/agencies are downsizing.  Also, many of the jobs are only part time, so don't provide a living wage or benefits.

At any rate, adding jobs is good.

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1310633_tn?1289313024
Adding jobs, ANY JOBS, is a good thing no matter which way you slice it.

That said, my question is, how many people that got a job, are underemployed?

Meaning, they used to make $50K/yr, and they settled for a job where they're making $20k/yr.

I'm not sure they could tally that statistic, but if 50,000 people went from making $50k/yr to making $20k/yr, that sure doesn't help the economy AT ALL.

Just looking at the flip-side of the coin, from a "how do these jobs benefit the economy" point of view.
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649848_tn?1357751184
That was my point with the thought about so many employers going to part time, rather than full time, so people can't earn a living wage or get benefits.

If someone who used to earn $50K/yr and has been out of work for a couple years, chances are they'd be willing to take a part time job, which are often at minimum wage, just to be bringing in income, but not enough to live on, even though they may no longer qualify for unemployment, simply because they got a  job.

I guess this is what makes our welfare rates go up?
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480448_tn?1403547723
I think it's probably hard to get an accurate reflection of the TRUE picture (good OR bad) because of all of the above mentioned factors and little details.

It's a complicated puzzle.  You'd have to figure in whose UC ran out and took a "lessor" job...the seasonal aspect, PT, and who is and isn't looking (although, most on UC are required to at least appear as though they're actively searching).  There are a lot of people out of work who aren't collecting UC too,...those are harder to keep tabs on.

I think though, overall....when compared to numbers from prior months (probably calculated in similar ways with similar factors...minus the holiday temp jobs), this is a good thing.  Growth is good!
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Avatar_f_tn
Anyone can find a job, but is that job gonna pay enuff to live on? Unfortunately you can be working, and still need to be on the system due to poor wages. Hard times.
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480448_tn?1403547723
Unfortunately you can be working, and still need to be on the system due to poor wages. Hard times. .

Very true.  I think it will be a whikle until we can see the economy rebound enough where people are actually making a wage comparable to what tjhey're worth, or to what they made before.
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Avatar_f_tn
I sure wasn't intending to start a fire or aggravate anyone. I just said what I believe and really don't think it was incendiary at all.

It wasn't at all incendiary and I didn't think you said anything terrible. I was just pointing out that you had confirmed one of his points.
My concern about it getting out of control came from past experience when some folks seem to over react to what they perceive as slights. I guess I was thinking to head it off. I really don't know why I get so concerned about the quibbling. It is often justified, occasionally fun and sometimes gets ugly, but I have no control over that nor do I want control over it.
And you are right, Mike and in the future, I will stay out of it.
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649848_tn?1357751184
If anyone has a problem with what's posted, I should be contacted; sometimes people trying to "calm down" others or point out perceived flaws, only fuel the fire.  I'm sorry that I can't be here 24/7.....no, I'm not; I don't get paid for this (LOL) ... ya'll just need to learn how to word things so people don't feel threatened and/or insulted.......  i.e learn how to tell people to go to h3ll and let them enjoy the trip......  it's all in the PR manual.

It's okay to disagree; it's just not okay to insult, threaten or make it personal.
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Avatar_f_tn
LOL

learn how to tell people to go to h3ll and let them enjoy the trip......  it's all in the PR manual.

Tis a work in progress!
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148588_tn?1415247401
Plenty of good jobs right now if you don't mind turning a wrench or getting your hands dirty. I spent last week getting some CEUs and hanging out with mechanical contractors. Lots of talk of how everyone is hiring and having to work 60 hour weeks. Texas has good apprenticeship programs, both union and non-union.
Also plenty of decent tech related jobs in the Austin area. College grads can get work selling computers and software even if their degree wasn't IT related. Companies will train.
North Dakota has an unemployment rate of 3.1% and the big energy companies are having to train as they hire.

Feels like recovery from where I'm standing. Just wish more of the energy related jobs were in renewable like wind and solar rather than drilling and fracking.
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206807_tn?1331939784
I’m working out of town and making less money than I made 20 years ago. I was out of work for 6 months (the longest time I’ve ever been unemployed). Even though I’m not making the money I’m accustomed to, I’m grateful to have a job.
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1530342_tn?1405020090
The surprisingly solid jobs report — and how it strengthens Obama's hand in the fiscal cliff talks

http://news.yahoo.com/surprisingly-solid-jobs-report-strengthens-obamas-hand-fiscal-092700045.html;_ylt=AjjYlK5NNVXKawdlrPuv4OBS_tx_;_ylu=X3oDMTVxcGswNmU2BGNjb2RlA2dtcHRvcDEwMDBwb29sd2lraXVwcmVzdARtaXQDQXJ0aWNsZSBNaXhlZCBMaXN0IE5ld3MgZm9yIFlvdSB3aXRoIE1vcmUgTGluawRwa2cDNmI2YTZmNzAtYzQzNy0zMWVlLWI0NDMtZDE5ZjdkY2MwZmJhBHBvcwM0BHNlYwNuZXdzX2Zvcl95b3UEdmVyAzQ4NTFmN2YwLTQwN2MtMTFlMi1iNWU1LTQ2OWFkZDBmNjg3OQ--;_ylg=X3oDMTMzOTFzamszBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDNGJmMmNhYWYtMTU2OC0zZjg2LWJhZjktNzBmYmY1ZjM5NTNkBHBzdGNhdANob21lfHRyZW5kaW5nbm93BHB0A3N0b3J5cGFnZQ--;_ylv=3
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535822_tn?1417529476
73% were Government jobs ..as usual
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580755_tn?1357673215
So it went from a mixed picture to a solid jobs report. Guess yahoo had not gotten the talking points before the 1st article.
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535822_tn?1417529476




By: Rachel Pulaski

While MSM continues to boast about the recent decline in unemployment, they have left out a critical piece of information.  According to new data published by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 73% of civilian jobs created in the past 5 months were government jobs.

CNS News reported

    In June, a total of 142,415,000 people were employed in the U.S, according to the BLS, including 19,938,000 who were employed by federal, state and local governments.

    By November, according to data BLS released today, the total number of people employed had climbed to 143,262,000, an overall increase of 847,000 in the six months since June.

    In the same five-month period since June, the number of people employed by government increased by 621,000 to 20,559,000. These 621,000 new government jobs created in the last five months equal 73.3 percent of the 847,000 new jobs created overall.

While private sector companies continue to announce layoffs, government steadily increases its workforce.  Breitbart.com has more:
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163305_tn?1333672171
Breitbart is an extreme conservative site, not the place one finds  balanced viewpoints.
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480448_tn?1403547723
Breitbart is an extreme conservative site, not the place one finds  balanced viewpoints

I agree, OH.

Providing the above info is accurate.... on one hand I say...who cares what KIND of jobs are being created...jobs are jobs, and that's a good thing....on the other hand, 621,000 new jobs in FIVE months?  Where do we need these people?  Aren't we supposed to be looking into cutting costs, not making more expenses?  I'd be more concerned about THAT than the fact that the amount of gov't jobs may be skewing the figures.

That seems like an awful lot of jobs, but in fairness, I have nothing to compare it to, as I'm, not generally familiar with typical gov't job growth and trends.
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Avatar_m_tn
Interesting topic.  We've done it before, but I like it.  I find the numbers and the sources of these numbers to be really interesting.

I don't like to be pessimistic.  I know some things like seasonal employment are going to fluctuate.  I know that people are taking early retirements.  

I just don't know that any of the numbers we are getting are accurate.  (Didn't the article above say that "they" miscalculated last months jobs by 43,000?  How accurate is that number?  What if they had a typo and the number was supposed to be 430,000?)  I guess I am a bit worried about who "they" are and their ability to keep an accurate count.  I think that is okay considering everything that is going on.

I don't want to be pessimistic.  Just the headlines alone, taken at face value sounds wonderful.... but now I am thinking about "they" again.
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163305_tn?1333672171
"I just don't know that any of the numbers we are getting are accurate."
"I don't want to be pessimistic.  Just the headlines alone, taken at face value sounds wonderful.... but now I am thinking about "they" again. "

You and I share the same skepticism.
How do we know what can be believed?

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Avatar_m_tn
"How do we know what can be believed?"  Precisely....  I think it was the last time that jobs were brought up on the CE board, I heard one report on the way in to work and heard 2 other reports when I got to work.  All of the numbers differed.  (All of the sources quoted "government findings")  

I think there are far too many things to keep track of in order to get a "real" number on this.  There is no way for them to track everything that can affect the numbers.

(Even when "they" say things are "worse", I take it with a grain of salt.)
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163305_tn?1333672171
Yes, indeed but, my mouth is starting to taste like the sea :)
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649848_tn?1357751184
If there's an accident and 5 different people see it, there will be 5 different accounts, because even though we see the same thing, we perceive it differently from our neighbor.......

Two sides to every story and the truth lies in the middle...... 5 stories, it's time to circle the wagons and still meet in the middle.

This is where we run into trouble here -- we read different things and we all perceive them differently.

OH, I often feel like I have salt in my mouth too, because I take a grain with nearly every news article I read.
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Avatar_m_tn
I tired to copy and paste something a friend emailed me.  

"How to get an unbiased opinion from extremely biased media sources" was the name of the bit but the author was listed as anonymous.

Basically it said that there is no such thing as an unbiased opinion.  
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649848_tn?1357751184
"Basically it said that there is no such thing as an unbiased opinion."  Totally agree.

Opinion: "A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge."

We base our opinions on what we see, hear, read, depending on how we perceive a certain situation.





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580755_tn?1357673215
"...there is no such thing as an unbiased opinion." Probably the most accurate statement I have ever seen written on this forum.
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