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Long-term Paxil withdrawal
Dr. Gould, I'm trying again. I posted the question about suffering for three years (nearly) after withdrawing from Paxil. You said I couldn't tell if the Paxil was to blame. What is it you think could have happened in the short time between going off Paxil and losing my mind? Let me assure you, nothing did. You recommended I see a talk therapist; I have and am. I've also seen three psychiatrists. All are befuddled. So again I ask, as a UCLA grad to a UCLA prof, do you know of anyone who has done special work on this who might be able to help, or know how one finds such people?
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
that question I can answer..I do not know of anybody doing this research, but the best way to find someone would be doing searches on the web for research on paxil, and then contact the authors of those papers because they would be the ones in that research community who would have word of mouth info re this subject. Hope that helps..
My thoughts. Medication is usually continued for a period of time after you start to feel better.
I didn't want to post here because I knew it was important for you to have your question answered and to feel validated.
I hope the doctor will answer your question. I would expect advice tacked to that too though.
J
I didn't want to post here because I knew it was important for you to have your question answered and to feel validated.
I hope the doctor will answer your question. I would expect advice tacked to that too though.
J
You're still hung up on the three year period. The awful deterioration happened quickly after withdrawing from Paxil, it's just lasted three years. That's where my case gets so difficult, because, and I'm guessing here because I don't know if anyone knows this, most people either go back on the Paxil to get out of the horrors of the withdrawal, or to taper more slowly, or they eventually get over it. I never got over it. The three years are a measure of duration, not cause, they began within a couple months of quitting Paxil. Before that, I was going through a whole bunch of withdrawal symptoms and then it moved into emotional effects. You're also not reading that I am in talk therapy, that I've been in talk therapy much of my adult life, and it's never helped at all. Sometimes there just insn't anything there. Considering that my sister, seven years older and who lived in different cities from me much of my life, also got agoraphobia, so there's a good chance of a biological cause. I understand my mother also had phobias, but she passed before I got agoraphobia so I can't ask her. It may be a family thing. Not that I'm sure, but no therapist has ever come up with anything to cause this, and neither have I.
All I can say is, and my first comment to Dr. Gould, which he probably doesn't read, was that a doctor must listen to his patient. I know what happened. So does my wife, because she watched me quickly turn into someone completely different. My story matches story after story of people withdrawing from ssris, with the exception that mine keeps going.
You're right about my psychiatrist, he's a quack. But my wife's health plan has few therapists or psychiatrists who still work for it, and I can't find another who's taking new patients who's close enough to my now severely shrunken world. I'm way worse than I ever was before I went on the Paxil. As I said to the doctor above, these symptoms occurred quickly after quitting Paxil, you seem to think they've slowly developed over three years. My psychiatrist is doing everything he can to avoid facing that he's the cause of all this by not knowing the protocols for bad Paxil withdrawal. If he had put me back on Paxil and tried a slower taper, or if I had decided not to quit after all, that it wasn't worth it, I wouldn't be in this situation. But he didn't, and by the time my destroyed mind found the courage to go on the internet and learned about it it was too late. What advice I do get doesn't come from the quack, I just use him to refill my prescriptions. When I need advice I go to another psychiatrist I have to pay for myself, but I have no income and so it's hard to do that very often. I've also seen a third psychiatrist. It goes without saying neither, nor any other therapist I've ever seen , thinks I'm bipolar. My diagnosis before Paxil was basically chronic mild depression with stronger outbreaks when I got dumped, but I've been with the same woman for thirteen years now and am married. My life was actually the best in years when I quit Paxil; that's why I thought I could handle quitting and trying natural methods. Unfortunately, I didn't know anything about the withdrawal problem so I wasn't at all prepared; neither the forgotten psychiatrist who put me on it nor the current one told me about it.
Anyway, enough of me. The key thing is, it's important when trying to understand someone to listen. The symptoms came very quickly, they've just lasted an interminably long time. That's where the people I've seen are befuddled, because they've never seen such an extreme case, though they do agree, other than my malpractice-fearing health plan shrink, that it was caused by the Paxil. They just don't know what to do. One suggested Lexapro, so I went on it after a year of constant suffering, and while it has helped me get some sleep, it hasn't worked very well on the other stuff. My feeling is that's because treating whatver Paxil did to me isn't what it was developed to treat.
I appreciate your concern, I really do. If I thought you were right, I am the kind of person who would say so. Whatever happens, I know I will still have that low level chronic depression, but it's never interfered with my life that much other than the decisions I've made, and I'll still be agoraphobic, because Paxil isn't a cure, it just helped some. I'm aware of that. What I need to get rid of, however, is 24 hour a day anxiety, memory problems, disorientation, morbid depression, and all the other stuff I never had before I quit Paxil after 50 plus years of living on this crazy planet.
Peace
All I can say is, and my first comment to Dr. Gould, which he probably doesn't read, was that a doctor must listen to his patient. I know what happened. So does my wife, because she watched me quickly turn into someone completely different. My story matches story after story of people withdrawing from ssris, with the exception that mine keeps going.
You're right about my psychiatrist, he's a quack. But my wife's health plan has few therapists or psychiatrists who still work for it, and I can't find another who's taking new patients who's close enough to my now severely shrunken world. I'm way worse than I ever was before I went on the Paxil. As I said to the doctor above, these symptoms occurred quickly after quitting Paxil, you seem to think they've slowly developed over three years. My psychiatrist is doing everything he can to avoid facing that he's the cause of all this by not knowing the protocols for bad Paxil withdrawal. If he had put me back on Paxil and tried a slower taper, or if I had decided not to quit after all, that it wasn't worth it, I wouldn't be in this situation. But he didn't, and by the time my destroyed mind found the courage to go on the internet and learned about it it was too late. What advice I do get doesn't come from the quack, I just use him to refill my prescriptions. When I need advice I go to another psychiatrist I have to pay for myself, but I have no income and so it's hard to do that very often. I've also seen a third psychiatrist. It goes without saying neither, nor any other therapist I've ever seen , thinks I'm bipolar. My diagnosis before Paxil was basically chronic mild depression with stronger outbreaks when I got dumped, but I've been with the same woman for thirteen years now and am married. My life was actually the best in years when I quit Paxil; that's why I thought I could handle quitting and trying natural methods. Unfortunately, I didn't know anything about the withdrawal problem so I wasn't at all prepared; neither the forgotten psychiatrist who put me on it nor the current one told me about it.
Anyway, enough of me. The key thing is, it's important when trying to understand someone to listen. The symptoms came very quickly, they've just lasted an interminably long time. That's where the people I've seen are befuddled, because they've never seen such an extreme case, though they do agree, other than my malpractice-fearing health plan shrink, that it was caused by the Paxil. They just don't know what to do. One suggested Lexapro, so I went on it after a year of constant suffering, and while it has helped me get some sleep, it hasn't worked very well on the other stuff. My feeling is that's because treating whatver Paxil did to me isn't what it was developed to treat.
I appreciate your concern, I really do. If I thought you were right, I am the kind of person who would say so. Whatever happens, I know I will still have that low level chronic depression, but it's never interfered with my life that much other than the decisions I've made, and I'll still be agoraphobic, because Paxil isn't a cure, it just helped some. I'm aware of that. What I need to get rid of, however, is 24 hour a day anxiety, memory problems, disorientation, morbid depression, and all the other stuff I never had before I quit Paxil after 50 plus years of living on this crazy planet.
Peace
There are alot of things that can happen in three years that aren't just exernal. Brain chemisty can change. But Anxiety and depression can worsen which is why they're is a section of diagnosis for anxiety Not otherwise specified meaning, of no known immediate cause. Someone can have anxiety, and it become more severe and professionals can't find an immediate cause for the rise in anxiety or depression.
There doesn't always have to be an immediate stimuli causing an rise in severity which is why talk therapy and being willing to go deeper into youself and patterns throughout your life can be important.
All the paxil is out of your system. And withdrawing from paxil wouldn't cause such a long drawn out depression or anxiety. Meaning, when you taper from these meds your symptoms can at first appear to be worsening, or they can be worse because you may need a different medication.
You mat have had this level of anxiety/depression while on the paxil in which the paxil did take care of to an extent but going off of it allowed your symptoms to come through and remain.
Just as I have anxiety and am on a few meds...my anxiety could become more severe bit it wouldn't nessesarily show and I wouldn't feel it because I'm on medications to control it. I cuold go off and suddenly realize ny anxiety was worse than when I began because while on the meds my anxiety became worse from a trigger or from an unknown effect that's not specific or able to be seen or determined immediatly.
Unfortunity even pschiatry is not an exact science and there's not obvious answer to anything as meds are used as temporary support and not answers and although dealing woth meds is chemical, the way a body reacts and the way the mind shifts during certain periods of our life isn't covered under simple explination of psychiatry/meds.
Please don't take offence when I say this but I did notice something while quickly scanning through some posts. You say your psychiatrist insists your bi-polar and you have your doubts. It sounds to me, and this is just my opinion that you've been unable to come to terms or to agreement with the professionals your seeing. That can defenitly have an effect on your anxiety/depression. A professional saying one thing and you thinking he has no idea what he/she is talking about.
Do you talk about that in talk therapy? Maybe dig a little deeper into why your psychdoc is seeing bipolar when you don't feel your bipolar. He may be right, he may be wrong. Not all docs get it right the first time due to temporary things going on in someones life, traumatic events not known about. Maybe you should schedual a full 45 min session with your psychdoc and have him/her explain what they see and what you feel. A good psychiatrist will listen to you. They may keep their diagnosis, bit they will take into account what your saying and how your feeling and maybe make some changes if you feel something isn't geling in the whole diagnosis/med arena.
See here's my thought. Your hung up on the fact that this is all due to your coming off the paxil and trying to draw a straight line from what you think would be A to B. But psychology and psychoatry...peoples minds and the way their bodies react don't follow a simple line.
Things aren't always so simple. Things can be complex and deeper. And you may not be recognizing a life change that had an effect on you. And certainly only seeing one avenue...A to B can also cause alot of anxiety as you can't find the simple answer your looking for.
I can't imagine you'll get a different answer from the doctor you did before as it seems inpossible to draw that straight line from cause to effect over a three years period when so much could have taken place while you were on the paxil, got off and in these past three years. And I certainly don't mean any offence. He may have a whole new idea..I am only going off of my thoughts.
I know I'm far from the expert here. But what if you looked deeper into what is happening. Not just thinking paxil withdrawl is the only answer but maybe open your mind up to other possibilities at the same time.
I can tell your not going to give up the search for what happened in between these three years. But why just put all your energy into one explination. Why not go deeper or check out a different explination while your trying to find the answer.
What could it hurt...I think at this point since there is no immediate answer it could only help. And this whole thing is making you anxious because you can't find the answer(or that's how it seems to me) that your rejecting any other possibilities and holding tight to this one explination.
Sometimes things are just more complicated, complex and indepth than we'd like them to be. And in my own opinion I think the answer goes deeper and doesn't just follow a straight line.
And like you said, you have a talk therapist. But you have to make sure your really working in therapy. Therapy isn't easy. And I'm certainly not saying you aren't. I'm just making a general statement that deleving deeper into oneself and ones life can be scary and how simple I wish it could be to attach one explination to my issues now. But if everything were so simple...what would we all need psychiatrists and therapists for, right.
Just an opinion, I hope you don't take any offense to what I've said. I'm just trying to be as honest with my thoughts as possible. And like I said, the doc may have a dofferent answer or others thoughts now. Just in my own mind I see this as a complex issue and not something with a simple A to B answer.
Be well
Amph
There doesn't always have to be an immediate stimuli causing an rise in severity which is why talk therapy and being willing to go deeper into youself and patterns throughout your life can be important.
All the paxil is out of your system. And withdrawing from paxil wouldn't cause such a long drawn out depression or anxiety. Meaning, when you taper from these meds your symptoms can at first appear to be worsening, or they can be worse because you may need a different medication.
You mat have had this level of anxiety/depression while on the paxil in which the paxil did take care of to an extent but going off of it allowed your symptoms to come through and remain.
Just as I have anxiety and am on a few meds...my anxiety could become more severe bit it wouldn't nessesarily show and I wouldn't feel it because I'm on medications to control it. I cuold go off and suddenly realize ny anxiety was worse than when I began because while on the meds my anxiety became worse from a trigger or from an unknown effect that's not specific or able to be seen or determined immediatly.
Unfortunity even pschiatry is not an exact science and there's not obvious answer to anything as meds are used as temporary support and not answers and although dealing woth meds is chemical, the way a body reacts and the way the mind shifts during certain periods of our life isn't covered under simple explination of psychiatry/meds.
Please don't take offence when I say this but I did notice something while quickly scanning through some posts. You say your psychiatrist insists your bi-polar and you have your doubts. It sounds to me, and this is just my opinion that you've been unable to come to terms or to agreement with the professionals your seeing. That can defenitly have an effect on your anxiety/depression. A professional saying one thing and you thinking he has no idea what he/she is talking about.
Do you talk about that in talk therapy? Maybe dig a little deeper into why your psychdoc is seeing bipolar when you don't feel your bipolar. He may be right, he may be wrong. Not all docs get it right the first time due to temporary things going on in someones life, traumatic events not known about. Maybe you should schedual a full 45 min session with your psychdoc and have him/her explain what they see and what you feel. A good psychiatrist will listen to you. They may keep their diagnosis, bit they will take into account what your saying and how your feeling and maybe make some changes if you feel something isn't geling in the whole diagnosis/med arena.
See here's my thought. Your hung up on the fact that this is all due to your coming off the paxil and trying to draw a straight line from what you think would be A to B. But psychology and psychoatry...peoples minds and the way their bodies react don't follow a simple line.
Things aren't always so simple. Things can be complex and deeper. And you may not be recognizing a life change that had an effect on you. And certainly only seeing one avenue...A to B can also cause alot of anxiety as you can't find the simple answer your looking for.
I can't imagine you'll get a different answer from the doctor you did before as it seems inpossible to draw that straight line from cause to effect over a three years period when so much could have taken place while you were on the paxil, got off and in these past three years. And I certainly don't mean any offence. He may have a whole new idea..I am only going off of my thoughts.
I know I'm far from the expert here. But what if you looked deeper into what is happening. Not just thinking paxil withdrawl is the only answer but maybe open your mind up to other possibilities at the same time.
I can tell your not going to give up the search for what happened in between these three years. But why just put all your energy into one explination. Why not go deeper or check out a different explination while your trying to find the answer.
What could it hurt...I think at this point since there is no immediate answer it could only help. And this whole thing is making you anxious because you can't find the answer(or that's how it seems to me) that your rejecting any other possibilities and holding tight to this one explination.
Sometimes things are just more complicated, complex and indepth than we'd like them to be. And in my own opinion I think the answer goes deeper and doesn't just follow a straight line.
And like you said, you have a talk therapist. But you have to make sure your really working in therapy. Therapy isn't easy. And I'm certainly not saying you aren't. I'm just making a general statement that deleving deeper into oneself and ones life can be scary and how simple I wish it could be to attach one explination to my issues now. But if everything were so simple...what would we all need psychiatrists and therapists for, right.
Just an opinion, I hope you don't take any offense to what I've said. I'm just trying to be as honest with my thoughts as possible. And like I said, the doc may have a dofferent answer or others thoughts now. Just in my own mind I see this as a complex issue and not something with a simple A to B answer.
Be well
Amph
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