Marijuana Induced Psychotic Behavior

[metrotango]

How does one cure a person of Marijuana induced psychotic behavior?  How long does this psychotic behavior last?  And is the psychotic behavior as a result of withdrawal.  I have been using Cranberry Juice to flush it out of my son's system.  He is not bipolar for he does not get sad.  Bipolars get sad, not angry.  My son never gets sad.  He gets psychotic from good mood to psychotic mood in a split second within a conversation.  I, the mother, is always on eggshells with him.  One second he could be great in conversation, next second he turn psychotic verbage because he did not like what he heard.  When he is good, he is great.  When he is psychotic, he is psychotic.  I do not want him on medication for I read, Marijuana prevents medication to work properly anyways.  I want him to go the homeopathic route but he dislikes the big pill form.  Most of all, he does not see that he has this psychotic problem so, does not want to comply and try to help his situation.  With my amazement, he actually went to a Marijuana clinic and got a license so easily which gives him legal right to smoke.   I want to know, if my son is temporarily psychotic due to Marijuana inducement or permanently psychotic induced to due prolong use?  If he were to totally stop Marijuana, will his psychotic episodes subside eventually?

[Jaquta]

Hey.  I need to go.  A family member wants to use the phone.

There's a substance abuse forum.  Can't remember the name.  Look under A for addiction.  They may be more helpful there.

[metrotango]

Hi Jaquta,

I noticed you still awake like me posting on this website.  lol!

I read your last posting.  Thanks for the apology.

Sorry to hear you have your own demons to deal with.  

The reason I posted here was to see if anyone else has encountered the same problem and to see how they solved their problems or situations.

Sometimes, an outsider can see through the forest, than the individual inside the forest because the individual inside the forest can only see branches, not the forest.

Thanks again Jaquta.

[Jaquta]

I wanted to apologize for how I have communicated my comments.
I typed an apology yesterday but then deleted it and today allowed myself to get drawn back into the discussion.

I'm not sure why but when I read your posts I feel frustrated.  I've been feeling frustrated in general (very, long story) but ... I don't even know how to explain it.
I guess I see aspects of myself, my family or my support network in what you write (and find them triggering).  ??

I'm really at a loss but felt you deserved an apology.  I'm sorry for attacking you personally (subconsciously I feel that is what I have been doing) but please know I have only ever wanted what was best for your son.
I'm not entirely sure why I feel the need to advocate for your son when I generally support the person posting the question.  ??

My comments are slightly biased in that they come from a position of unwellness.  (Probably a -8 on a scale of 0-10, with 10 being well.)  I just felt I needed to own that with you.

I really hope you are able to get your son the support he needs.
If you need advice about the situation you could also try scheduling an appointment with your own doctor or try phoning your local mental health service.  Either should be able to offer you direction.

Good luck!!

[metrotango]

Good morning Jaquta,

Everytime I think I have explained myself, you bring up questions with information I have not given yet.  It is very time consuming to try to update a total stranger of years of history that brings my son to this point.

He is psychotic, not bipolar.

He is gentle one minute, and next minute hostile if something triggers it.  Under meds or vitamins, he remains stable.  But he has to be the one to want to stay stable.

We are not overprotective.  We have done everything.  He has lived on his own, and he cannot because he does not make good, informed choices.

As I stated above, he has been hospitalized several times, and each time the hospital spits him out after the insurance limit runs out.

He has tried meds, and did not like the side effects.

He has a legal Marijuana license.  He does not do any other drugs.

Marijuana is the reason he is psychotic, induced by it.  For most, Marijuana relaxes him, not my son.  It goes beyond relaxation.  It makes him paranoid, psychotic, etc.

Right now, he is temporarily with me like an AA escape from access to it.

As I said, when he reaches calmness is when I will try to get him to see a therapist.

I did have him committed twice, but they find him complacent and agreeable.  Again, he is only hostile in trigger situations.

As for labels, my son is temporarily psychotic state, in and out.  Hopefully he is detoxing during the period he is with me.  I read Marijuana can remain in a person's system for about a month.

Right now, I am taking baby steps with him so that way he stays with me while he heals.  If he leaves, he will probably resume his bad habits and not have a chance to see how mood balanced he is through practice and discipline.

You did not answer my question.  Do you have children of your own?  I would like to know so that way, I know you truly understand a parents' plight to trying to save a child from self destruction as a result of drug abuse.

Thanks again for your input.

[Jaquta]

There is also a thing called being over-protective.  A safe environment can sometimes be as toxic as a less structured one.    Goodness of fit can be affected by other variables.

Nobody can undo what they have already done.  They can strive to make better choices though.
I disagree.  While bad habits may become entrenched, etc that doesn't mean a person isn't suggestive to other options.  They can change with support.

So medhelp should screen individuals to determine who may or may not be eligible to respond to a certain persons post?
People base their comments on the information they receive and how they perceive or interpret that info.

You don't compare your sons but yet you felt the need to say that at least one of your sons wasn't messed up.
Have you ever had a conversation with your 'sick son' about what he wants to do in life?

I personally don't know why you insist on labeling your son as psychotic.
My mother calls me schizophrenic (which I'm not).  While I may have issues in life I think it is grossly undermining to be defined by another persons labels.  Especially when that diagnosis hasn't been offered by a doctor.

I expect there are things you can do.  If you son is truly psychotic, as you suggest he is, then he can be detained in hospital.  At least that is true for my country.
Here he would be labelled as mentally disordered and would be committed under our Mental Health Act.
If he's not psychotic but taking drugs, have him arrested.  Surely it isn't all medicinal.

Well I hope you let him outside so that he can get his daily dose of vitamin D.

Set limits on his behavior.  Perhaps insist on therapy versus asking it as a question.  

If your son was/ is psychotic and lacks insight how can he be expected to understand your vitamin regime.

If your son is a danger to himself or others you can have him admitted to hospital.

I think it's a placebo effect.  Maybe he has bipolar?

I think if you want to help your son that you should have him seen by a doctor.
In my opinion what you are doing is deferring from getting appropriate assessment and treatment and may in fact be causing your son more grief, if not harm.

If you use psychosis as your argument then you can't possibly expect your son to make an informed decision.
Either he is or he isn't.  If he is, YOU get him appropriate medical treatment.  If he is not, then leave him alone.

[metrotango]

What you say is partial correct.

Sometimes a child can have all the ingredients for a healthy, safe environment, but still choose to leave it all and be self destructive.  

Once a child is influenced by a bad person or bad habits and chooses that  route, no other person can correct the wrong decision except for the person himself.  

Do you have children of your own?

Often persons give advice based upon no experience of the incident or criteria.

My two sons have never been compared to do alike.  We did not expect them to excel beyond a human expectation.  Only that they try to their best.

I do agree with you that I should need outside intervention to help me with my "psychotic" son.  But because he is of age of 22, I cannot force him to do anything.

So, right now, at least I have him temporarily, in hopes he will see the light of his vitamin deficiency to balance his extreme mood swings.

I have asked if I paid for a therapist, would he go.  He said no.

He sees that he does not have a problem.

Yesterday, he did not take his vitamins and was psychotic all over again, in and out of calm to psychotic.  So, all day I was on eggshells with him.

Therefore, yesterday after I left him, I got my own set of vitamins for him when he is with me when he forgets to take them.

Hopefully, he will stay with me long enough to understand and do the vitamin practice each day without being reminded.

And I told my son, if he fails to take his vitamins, we are not going out together, for my safety also.

I did find a list of doctors in the area so I am hoping in a spontaneous calm mood, I can get my son to visit one for a consultation.

I do agree with you Jaquta, that I should not be doing this alone.

After seeing the wow! result of the vitamin intake and regular intake practice, we will at least have improved his current swinging mood psychotic state.

Whether he takes prescription meds or vitamins, it does no good if he fails to take them on his own.

At least he agrees to take the vitamin regiment, and I see the great positive effects on his mood swing.

As I said, when he is calm, not psychotic, he is great.  One forgets that  the same person can instantly turn psychotic without vitamins or meds.

I do this for my son, not for me, but for him.  He is blind to his problem so I am the seeing eye to help him until he is stabilized.

Thank you Jaquta for your feedback.  Only the person with the problem can accept or reject help.  And right now, my son is accepting the vitamin route, so that is what I have to work with and hope with discipline and practice, it will be enough to heal him so he can accept more help in the future perhaps with a therapist on his own.

[Jaquta]

I think what you really mean is that you have tried most things but have not perserved with them long enough.
I have trialled psych medications at best for six weeks.  Do you think it is then reasonable for me to say that that particular med and all others are ineffective?

I think it is unfair of you to compare your two sons especially based on your own perception of success.
I have two brothers and two sisters.  We were all essentially brought up in the same environment.  They are highly successful.  I am not.
While the environment may be the same, experiences and perceptions are not.
I expect your son possibly felt pressured to live up to your expectations and the successes of his elder brother.  Birth place (first child, second child, etc) is something which automatically changes dynamics.

Meaning your son should be a clone of yourself?  Calm, positive and self-important?  I don't sense calm and positive talking to you.  Distanced and neutral.  Kind of unemotive.  Concerned?  Desperate?

That isn't specifically your son's problem.  Many people are social and like the limelight.  Maybe this fulfills a need of your son.

I think the excessive exercise and smoking mask underlying issues.  If you resolve the issue(s) the smoking, etc will be easier to work through.

It does sound as though your son is in too deep and needs intervention.
I think this needs to be done with the support of professionals.  I think you're making a big mistake trying to treat your son alone.
My stance is that this is a serious problem and your son needs appropriate treatment.

If your son is impulsive and unpredictable I would be scared to have him detoxing in my house.

[metrotango]

Good morning Jaquta,

We have tried everything with my son.  My son was top notch in high school up until his last two years.  He was in band playing the Saxophone, Track athlete, etc.

It was during a family trip to his cousin, that she introduced him to Marijuana.  That is when everything started falling apart for him.  He became obsessed with it.

We tried everything to get him to stop.  And yes, he had tried other drugs but did not find them enjoyable as Marijuana so he stays with Marijuana.

As for me, an engineer, and his father, a top secret clearance government employee, we are the most calm, positive people.  

We have another son who is older, who never went the route of drugs and was raised in the same environment and now has his BS degree, living on his own, and working now.

My younger son's problem is that he is a social butterfly and enjoys being in the spotlight all the time.  And thus, enjoy excitement and being part of the popular crowd.  This is his flaw.  He has poor judgement of good, healthy friends.  Further, a cousin introduced him to Marijuana which didn't help him.  He constantly has to be stimulated either physically, he works out allot, or by substance (he smokes cigarettes).

That is why, I relate all his behavior problems with Marijuana and poor judgement of people who take the incorrect, self destructive path.

So, hopefully, this temporary displacement from his access to drugs, he will heal.

Again Jaquta, he have tried everything to get him to stop but for some reason he always finds a way to get to Marijuana.  Only this last time, I was able to remove him from all access to drugs and bad influences.  

[Jaquta]

Hi.

Non-compliance is something which is not limited to your son.  Also because someone is not compliant at one point in time does not mean that they will not become compliant at another.
A person, in my opinion, is more likely to gain insight and become compliant if they receive psychotherapy and/ or psycho-education.

My personal view is that if a person has had negative experiences with medication or psychotherapy, etc that they should be addressed.

I agree.  Recovery is a process and is different for everyone.

I disagree.  No parent is privy to all of a child's experiences.  If you did see your son using drugs then why did you not intervene at that point?

Nutrition is important but is best achieved through a healthy diet.  Excess vitamin dosing can be dangerous and you may be putting your son at increased risk of cardiovascular disease, etc.

How is your son expected to mature and exit the slump without interventions?  How is he expected to learn how to communicate?  Your son is savvy enough to know that if he complies with your 'alternative' medicine that he can avoid taking responsibility for his own issues.  Plus he has you nurturing him.

How come no doctor told me that gummi bears could fix emotional problems?  It seems like a huge oversight on their part.  Negligent almost.

Most expensive does not mean best.
One psychiatrist I saw (was forced to see) proclaimed to be world renown.  I guess that means world famous in our little tinpot town.  In my opinion he was easily the worst doctor I have ever seen.
Most expensive or self-proclaimed best means absolutely nothing.  Too many people also curtail to the rich and famous.

I don't disagree with you, but best because of what?  I don't think it is because of the misc. stuff you are feeding him.  I expect it is more psychological in nature.

While I accept drug induced psychosis as being founded I don't believe all the behaviors you listed represent psychotic behavior.  Most of them could represent any number of us here.

I accept that the internet has limitations as do we all.

I commend you for relocating your son to a safer environment.

I am still of the opinion that part of your son's problem is environmental.  I also wonder how much you are contributing to your son's state.  You remind me of a program I saw where a mother overfed her son till he became super morbidly obese.  I wonder if you have done much self-reflection yourself.

I sincerely hope you are not medicating your son in an attempt to fix your own issues.

I understand that you know your son best, I am not refuting that.  My comments are based on my perception of what you write.  It can be hard for me and others to truly understand the situation without being in it and experiencing it.

[metrotango]

Well Hello Dr. Gould,

I am impressed a medical doctor responded.  :-D

Are you still in LA? by UCLA?

[metrotango]

HI Paxiled,

My son does not get depressed period, just psychotic if he is not mood balanced.

As soon as my son graduates from the vitamin chewables, I will try the pill format.  :-)

[metrotango]

Hi Jaquta,

My son did try the medical route.  He just does not follow through.  And because he is 22, I cannot force him if he refuses to take medication after his bad experience during the trial period.

Read the posting I wrote to Cookie3114 and it explains why I have decided to go the vitamin route.

The solution to each person is independent.  I have seen my son in all situations, and this, the vitamin, is the best for him right now for he is willing to accept this low level help.  Perhaps, later when he is mature and out of his slump, he will be more accepting of medication when he knows how to communicate.

One can have the most expensive doctors and access to the most expensive medical attention and still fall.  ie Kurt Cobain, Marie Osmond's oldest son who committed suicide, Heath Ledger (batman Joker), Anna Nicole Smith, Michael Jackson, etc.

What I write in this forum is only partial of the explanation of my son's history.  I could write three War and Peace of his past history with him only being 22 years of age.  I prefer not to write a novel in this forum, but give everyone the most pertinent information.

Again, this vitamin route has been the BEST I have seen him in years.

Thanks for your concern and criticism.  Remember, this is a limited venue of communication.

[metrotango]

Hi Cookie3114,

You are absolutely correct in that I do not know my son's total problem.  However, I do know, he is currently drug free and marijuana free.  I temporarily relocated him to an area of no access to any of that bad stuff.

However, before I can find out the total story with my son, I must first get him calm and communicative.  Without that first, I cannot open the door to help him totally.  

Currently, the vitamin regiment has been the best I have seen him in years.

Just to satisfy your concern, he has been through counseling and medication several times, and it does not help.  He has had bad experiences with the trial medication process to find the best for his psychosis: ie medicine side effects.  Therefore he told me, it is the main reason why he does not want the medication.

He is 22 also, so I cannot babysit him to take his meds or force him to after his bad experience.  During this trial medical process, they also tried counseling.  He just does not open up to conversation because of his previous psychotic state.

At least now with vitamins, he has improved.  The toughest part of anything is to get him to do the vitamins on his own as a routine.  Yesterday was day three.  And with my guidance and reminder, I have seen great improvement.

However, I did notice his behavior unbalanced and asked him if he took his vitamins, he said he did not.  So, immediately I got some Omega 3, 6, 9 and put it in a shake for him to drink.  And had him eat some vitamin D gummi bears.  

The day he was perfect was the time he ate 10 Omega chews with vitamin supplements.

We have tried the medical route, and it did not help him for it is more difficult and expensive to and not as convenient for him to help himself.

At least with vitamins, he can go to any store and get them and like indigestion, after taking Pepto Bismo, the symptoms subsides.

With my son's problem, I just want him completely clean for several months with this vitamin regiment route so that way, we can see if his neurotransmitters repair itself without the abuse.

So, before we parted for the night, he was calm again after the Omega milkshake and vitamin D gummi bear chews.

I cannot help him medically if he does not want it.  But with vitamins, I can help him for he does not mind something that tastes good and he does not have to go to a doctor which he immediately rejects.  All that paperwork he just does not have the attention span to focus.

Right now, I am helping him using what is more convenient to him and what he would accept over the counter, non medicine, to help him.

Thanks Cookie3114.  :-)

[Jaquta]

Personally I think you are misguided and abusing your son despite good intentions.

If your son is unwell then you should have him seen and treated appropriately by a doctor.  I think you're wrong in taking on this responsibility of your own accord.

[Paxiled]

Try to time the essential fatty acids with meal time.  Fat soluble nutrients should always be taken with a meal containing fat for maximum absorption.  And see if you can't get him to swallow the gel caps -- the chewables oxidize quickly so they're not as potent.  Also, look at the depression forum.  There's a long thread on Evening Primrose Oil that might be interesting to you.  Congrats on finding such a healthy fix.

[Roger Gould, M.D.]

I'm glad to read all of your posts and replies to our community here.  They have given you very good information and you have a source of information of your own so you'll have to put it all together.  If your vitamin therapy does not work long-term, I suggest you re- think your antagonism to psychotropic medications.  I usually do not favor medications but with the symptoms that your son has, these medications are particularly useful.  They should be combined with talk therapy because at age 22, he had better get his life moving forward and he won't be able to do it with either marijuana or the kind of outburst you describe.

[metrotango]

Hi Cookie3114,

Yes my son is an adult.  He is 22.  Yesterday was another great day with him being in a good mood.  However, I could tell by the end of the day, his mood was wearing thin.  This tells me, he will have to schedule his vitamin intake throughout the day and not just take them at the beginning of the day only.  It is amazing just taking vitamins balanced him.  Thanks so much for everyone's input.  :-D

[boogieman]

Howdy. Glad that you have found an effective remedy, especially one that doesn't involve neurotransmitter altering drugs. Hope it continues to work for you, and keep posting. Take care, GM

[cookie3114]

Best wishes for continued improvement in your son's health. How old is he? I assume that he is an adult to get a prescription for medicinal marijuana.

[metrotango]

I have done so much reading on Marijuana and psychotic behaviors that I found the best description was the one I mentioned in my initial posting.  Marijuana induced my son's psychotic behavior.

The clinic who provided my son with the Marijuana license even said, how he responds to it was not normal.

My update info with boogieman, I listed that the vitamin regiment, cranberry juice, antioxidant waters might have cured him of his psychotic outbursts.

He no longer talks to himself, is able to hold a conversation, is polite, and most of all focused and calm.  And he did not laugh to himself, a trait he picks up when smoking marijuana, almost like when someone gets tipsy type of laughter.

Thank you so much for commenting!  I appreciate everyone's input and insights.

[metrotango]

Before I can get him to do anything, I needed to find a way to get him to follow simple directions without blowing up in anger.  If you read my comment to boogieman, I think I found it.

If this vitamin regiment works, he may not need any therapy.  Perhaps he just needed all that Marijuana out of his system.  For two weeks now, I have been pumping him with Cranberry juice and vitamin water to flush out his system.

Now I hope, he is on the road to recovery.

Thank you for your comment and taking the time out to reply.  :-)

[metrotango]

To answer your question:  My son's psychotic behavior involves laughing to himself, talking to himself, paranoia, instant anger, frustration, lack of sleep, defiance, unable to keep focused.

Update since I posted this earlier:  I had given my son a bag of Omega chews for I read faulty neurotransmitters can be corrected and balanced with Omega 3, 6, and 9.  He had eaten 10 of them, and wow! was he chemically balanced for the first time.  His mood was stable, calm, and amiable.  We actually went shopping and a dinner out.  I was amazed at the transformation.  So, during this time, I was able to also get him to take Vitamins with minerals to complete his unknown mood problem.  He agreed to follow this regiment so he did not have to go to a doctor or take prescription pills since we found flavored good tasting vitamins and Omega 3 chews.  I also had him take an Omega 3, 6, 9 oil tablet which I showed him to pierce and to sprinkle the oil on his meal.  He did that and wow! I was amazed I was able to get him to all this yesterday!!!!  For the first time in years, he has been calm, communicative, and balanced.  Yesterday was day one, so I am anxious to see how his mood is today.  :-)  

Thanks so much for your comment and reply.

[cookie3114]

Bipolar people can have anger and rages. You wrote that bipolars get sad, not angry. People with bipolar disorder have a full range of emotions and many do, indeed, exhibit angry behavior. There are links on the MedHelp site which can educate you about bipolar and other mental health conditions. No one on this site can, however, diagnose your son's condition.

A qualified mental health practitioner, preferably a psychiatrist, can determine a diagnosis for your son.

Marijuana should not produce permanent psychosis. Please get your son to a qualified professional so he can get the treatment he needs. To gain understanding, please become more educated on mental health topics so you can act from knowledge and information, not speculation.

Best wishes for you in your efforts to help your son.

[Paxiled]

I suppose anyone can have a strange reaction to something but I've never heard of marijuana producing a psychotic reaction.  People will have their underlying mood exaggerated by it, so if your son is anxious marijuana might make him more so.  Much more so.  And that can set off conditioned thinking, so such people should avoid it.  But it sounds like something else to me or what you're describing isn't accurate, just an acute thing going on between the two of you.  I have no idea obviously.  But assuming he's suffering acute mood changes, I'd get him into therapy quickly.  I don't think that's the marijuana.  Also, homeopathy doesn't use big pills, so I'm a little confused by that.  It uses small, sometimes tiny pills that dissolve under the tongue, or liquid.  And I'm not the doctor.