Aa
Welbutrin
My first question is: is there a good informative site about Welbutrin.
Second: I am a drinker, (beer) and my paperwork for Welbutrin says to avoid or limit alcohol consumption - but then it also says, if you are a drinker don't quit while taking this medication either? hmmmm???
I have not started it yet; I am very worried about seizures. My Mother is a drinker and was taking xanex and she had many seizures and very whacked out behavior. Very scary to see your Mother go through that.
I am wanting to take it for stress control, level me a bit as I can fly off the handle and the smallest of things. AND to maybe help me quit smoking...
Any suggestions or help here...
Second: I am a drinker, (beer) and my paperwork for Welbutrin says to avoid or limit alcohol consumption - but then it also says, if you are a drinker don't quit while taking this medication either? hmmmm???
I have not started it yet; I am very worried about seizures. My Mother is a drinker and was taking xanex and she had many seizures and very whacked out behavior. Very scary to see your Mother go through that.
I am wanting to take it for stress control, level me a bit as I can fly off the handle and the smallest of things. AND to maybe help me quit smoking...
Any suggestions or help here...
Alva,
Am also on Wellbutrin (150mg SR x 2 a day) having tried Paxil (nausea, dizziness and stomach upset), Celexa (nausea and dizziness), Prozac (mania and sweats) and Serzone (no sex drive and fogginess).
Initially I liked the Wellbutrin since my sex drive came back and I felt alert rather than brain dead but now (5 weeks into it) I'm getting nightmares, itchy skin, rages and crying fits. My psychiatrist planned to add an anti-anxiety medication to the Wellbutrin to temper the agitation and nervousness but to be frank, I feel like throwing in the towel and weaning myself off all meds in the hope that the therapy and work I have done will allow me to lead a relatively anxiety and depression free life. Has anybody else taken the plunge?
Is anybody else out there SSRI intolerant (as I appear to be)?
Do you think its just a dosage thing? I have already started shaving bits off my Wellbutrin whilst waiting for a call back from my psychiatrist. I'd like to know if anybody has had experience of Wellbutrin withdrawel since when I came off the Serzone, I had pretty nasty side effects (nausea and muscle and joint aches) although unlike what I have been reading about some other drugs, they only lasted a month.
I'd really appreciate your feedback.
Am also on Wellbutrin (150mg SR x 2 a day) having tried Paxil (nausea, dizziness and stomach upset), Celexa (nausea and dizziness), Prozac (mania and sweats) and Serzone (no sex drive and fogginess).
Initially I liked the Wellbutrin since my sex drive came back and I felt alert rather than brain dead but now (5 weeks into it) I'm getting nightmares, itchy skin, rages and crying fits. My psychiatrist planned to add an anti-anxiety medication to the Wellbutrin to temper the agitation and nervousness but to be frank, I feel like throwing in the towel and weaning myself off all meds in the hope that the therapy and work I have done will allow me to lead a relatively anxiety and depression free life. Has anybody else taken the plunge?
Is anybody else out there SSRI intolerant (as I appear to be)?
Do you think its just a dosage thing? I have already started shaving bits off my Wellbutrin whilst waiting for a call back from my psychiatrist. I'd like to know if anybody has had experience of Wellbutrin withdrawel since when I came off the Serzone, I had pretty nasty side effects (nausea and muscle and joint aches) although unlike what I have been reading about some other drugs, they only lasted a month.
I'd really appreciate your feedback.
Well, its been two months since I started taking wellbutrin 150mg a day. The irritability I experienced while taking the medication only increased. I have spent the past few months moody, agitated, and hateful towards everyone around me. Although, I am very much in control of the rest of my emotions I am not a very pleasant person to be around. I discussed these feelings with my Dr. and he says the wellbutrin is working but I may need a lower dosage to control the irritability I am experiencing. The idea of getting off my antidepressants scares me because of my past experience when I got off of the serzone and I started falling back into my depressed state all over again. I feel like i have two choices get off wellbutrin and return to being seriously depressed or stay on the lower dose of wellbutrin 100mg a day and stay a miserable moody person. I feel very frustrated and I am beginning to wonder if there is hope out there.
AMK - There are a lot of people who you can talk to (and get answers from others straight away if others are online at the same time) on a busy forum. Much easier to post and read messages there too. So for first choice from the ones I know of then I'd go to:
http://forum.onecenter.com/cgi-bin/forum/forum.cgi?c=forum&fid=paxilhelp&n=1
Just outline the address above, right click on it, pick 'copy', then open another browser (or use the same one) and outline whatever address is in there, right click and press paste. That will take you to the site. That site is mostly re Paxil itself, but they do discuss other SSRIs and anti-depressants etc on there as many of the people there have been on others too. You will be welcomed on there, the people there are well aware of how frightening and disabling the side effects and withdrawals are and many are there because they have lost a member of their family to the drug and want desperately to help stop more loss of life. Maybe I'll see you on that board sometimes :) I don't go there as often as I used to do - I spend a lot of time on other sites (like this one) instead and also have my own support and information sites to keep an eye on. I'm sorry that you are frightened, the facts ARE frightening and there is no other way of looking at them without being frightened. I hope you get support and help and that you can help your sister in turn. All the very best to you - wish I could help more in some way.
My information site has tons of stuff in it (LOL, have spent the last 5 months collecting info and the last 2 months putting it up on the board alongside other people's posts there) and you might find it useful. Its here:
http://paxilsupport.homestead.com/Index.html
Scroll down it and you'll find the blue Information Site button, in amongst some other links.
Best wishes to you and your sister.
Paula
JOHN JOHN - am worried about you. If you're looking in, PLEASE let us know you are coping? Peas x
http://forum.onecenter.com/cgi-bin/forum/forum.cgi?c=forum&fid=paxilhelp&n=1
Just outline the address above, right click on it, pick 'copy', then open another browser (or use the same one) and outline whatever address is in there, right click and press paste. That will take you to the site. That site is mostly re Paxil itself, but they do discuss other SSRIs and anti-depressants etc on there as many of the people there have been on others too. You will be welcomed on there, the people there are well aware of how frightening and disabling the side effects and withdrawals are and many are there because they have lost a member of their family to the drug and want desperately to help stop more loss of life. Maybe I'll see you on that board sometimes :) I don't go there as often as I used to do - I spend a lot of time on other sites (like this one) instead and also have my own support and information sites to keep an eye on. I'm sorry that you are frightened, the facts ARE frightening and there is no other way of looking at them without being frightened. I hope you get support and help and that you can help your sister in turn. All the very best to you - wish I could help more in some way.
My information site has tons of stuff in it (LOL, have spent the last 5 months collecting info and the last 2 months putting it up on the board alongside other people's posts there) and you might find it useful. Its here:
http://paxilsupport.homestead.com/Index.html
Scroll down it and you'll find the blue Information Site button, in amongst some other links.
Best wishes to you and your sister.
Paula
JOHN JOHN - am worried about you. If you're looking in, PLEASE let us know you are coping? Peas x
WOW ! All I can say is WOW. I have been reading and reading and reading all of these posts. I take Buspar and Zoloft for OCD and generalized anxiety. My sister takes Paxil and has for a long time. These kinds of things run in my family. Anyway, now I am worried about the Paxil she is on, I want her to look at some of the sights you spoke about, but do not want to SCARE the hell out of her, you scared the hell out of me thats for sure, and I don't even take the paxil. I feel just terrible about the children that died, having three children myself. I worry about them because I don't want the cycle to continue (anxiety being inherited or whatever) . I am just trying to sort some of these feelings out, sorry to use the forum to do that....any ideas ?
I don't know the answers Lemony - all I know is what I've found out in the last almost five months. And I'm sorry to say that, cos what it seems to amount to as far as I can see is that all the powerful anti-depressants have some nasty effects somewhere along the line, though SSRIs seem to be the most pernicious, particularly Paxil. I don't know about alternative medicine either - I've seen sites on Vitamins that say that particular types are vital for a healthy 'mind' and so it would be logical to suspect that maybe they can help. I've just started on Vit. B8 (Inotisol) which is supposed to help withdrawal symptoms, I don't know if it will - but its purported to balance serotonin and so aid akethesia. If it DOES help then I'll be the first one when I'm out of all this withdrawal to be looking into particular vitamins re depression, etc.
BUT.. when I first became depressed (couldn't stop crying for a couple of days etc) it was very shortly after having dropped into an early menopause via teh operating theatre. Doctor just said, take these - they're a wonder drug, you'll soon feel better. That was Prozac. I suspect, but there's no proof, that had they simply adjusted the oestrogen med levels instead I'd have got better quick enough and never been trapped in the SSRI loop. I didn't recognise side effects at the time - assumed everything was down to my new 'status' lol, and so went spiralling into other medications because the doctor and I believed it must be ME.
I had a retinal bleed at that time. I could have gone blind, or - had the bleed been an inch away, I could have had a stroke. Only found out in the last few months that SSRI's cause haemorrhaeging (sp? LOL) and are vasoconstrictors.
Anyway, maybe I would have been depressed suddenly even if I hadn't had the op. Who knows, there's no proof either way. IF so, then maybe I'll get depressed like that again. I don't know how I'll cope with it - but I surely hope that I'll remember all I've learned in the last 4/5 months and stick it out or search for some other answer away from drugs. What a dilemna you must be in.
I'm truly sorry I can't answer your question. At the moment, nobody can - medicine hasn't come far enough. We can't even put right MS (of which many people get suspected of on withdrawal by the way) or Alzheimers or Dementia. We can't repair brain damage effectively. We can't undo the damage done by aneurisms in the brain. And I'm damn sure that when we can't achieve that much, then no way can anyone claim that "this drug will get rid of depression because its due to a chemical imbalance and our chemical will fix it".
There is no answer, but I hope that you'll find a way to cope without SSRIS and will go to the quitpaxil site (or some similar support place) I posted in a message to John further up in this thread. Some people there have also been on Wellbutrin and know more about its effects than I do.
The very best of wishes to you and I hope you have a good weekend. Will be back (if able LOL) next Tuesday probably :)
Peas
BUT.. when I first became depressed (couldn't stop crying for a couple of days etc) it was very shortly after having dropped into an early menopause via teh operating theatre. Doctor just said, take these - they're a wonder drug, you'll soon feel better. That was Prozac. I suspect, but there's no proof, that had they simply adjusted the oestrogen med levels instead I'd have got better quick enough and never been trapped in the SSRI loop. I didn't recognise side effects at the time - assumed everything was down to my new 'status' lol, and so went spiralling into other medications because the doctor and I believed it must be ME.
I had a retinal bleed at that time. I could have gone blind, or - had the bleed been an inch away, I could have had a stroke. Only found out in the last few months that SSRI's cause haemorrhaeging (sp? LOL) and are vasoconstrictors.
Anyway, maybe I would have been depressed suddenly even if I hadn't had the op. Who knows, there's no proof either way. IF so, then maybe I'll get depressed like that again. I don't know how I'll cope with it - but I surely hope that I'll remember all I've learned in the last 4/5 months and stick it out or search for some other answer away from drugs. What a dilemna you must be in.
I'm truly sorry I can't answer your question. At the moment, nobody can - medicine hasn't come far enough. We can't even put right MS (of which many people get suspected of on withdrawal by the way) or Alzheimers or Dementia. We can't repair brain damage effectively. We can't undo the damage done by aneurisms in the brain. And I'm damn sure that when we can't achieve that much, then no way can anyone claim that "this drug will get rid of depression because its due to a chemical imbalance and our chemical will fix it".
There is no answer, but I hope that you'll find a way to cope without SSRIS and will go to the quitpaxil site (or some similar support place) I posted in a message to John further up in this thread. Some people there have also been on Wellbutrin and know more about its effects than I do.
The very best of wishes to you and I hope you have a good weekend. Will be back (if able LOL) next Tuesday probably :)
Peas
John-John
No need to say "you were right" - I wouldn't have believed it either had it not happened to me. Would probably have wondered what was wrong with those people complaining and arguing with drug companies all the time. I was quite trusting that a) my doctor knew what medication was necessary and b) that Paxil would help etc... Only realised on December 6th or 7th (went cold turkey December 4th) that something was VERY wrong. Found out just what was happening when I went on a search re the electrical shocks, thinking I had a brain tumour or was going to have a stroke or something.
LOL - I hope I remember to remove your post (I've copied it here so I can answer all your points) from this message, if I haven't, at least you know why your messages is in mine :)
The zaps (electrical shocks) (and other symptoms you might or might not get) are very frightening but PLEASE try to remember that it's NOT YOU, that there are LOTS of people out there going through the same thing and that quite a LOT of them don't have this torture for longer than a few weeks and I truly hope you are one of the latter ones.
As for being 'pissed off' - extreme anger is also very common and don't be surprised if it turns into a sort of rage, very very intense. I never used to get really angry at anything and I can't believe that the mostly placid person I used to be has become so very very angry. Someone in the early days last December reminded me a few times on the support board to "direct your anger where it belongs - at the drug company". That was GOOD advice. Far better than directing it at everything and everyone, so I'm passing her advice on to you. It actually DOES help some - its still scary to feel such rage, but at least then you are not harming other people with it. Keep in mind that your anger is all part of the chemical balance of your brain which has been altered, affecting your personality. I've found that at least I'm not so angry so often lately (maybe in the last month?) - presumably that part is subsiding.
I'm so sorry sweetie that you're going through all this, everytime I see a "newbie" in withdrawal it makes me want to cry - I am now USED to dealing with all this (most of the time, sometimes I still feel I can't stand it) but remember how terrified I was at the beginning. I just wish there was something I could say or do that would make you feel better.
At the risk of getting another bunch of phsychotropic drug advocates sending nasty emails (LOL, I can cope with it...) here's my email address if it helps, but I'm going away for the weekend (its a Mayday holiday weekend in the UK) so might not be back till Tuesday - if you DO email, don't expect a reply till then:
paula.***@****
Yes, I am still experiencing withdrawal effects almost 5 months into it. The effects have changed, the zaps are very rare but became replaced with what I can only describe as a "wired up" feeling which goes on for hours on end. These periods are dangerous to me, these are where suicidal thoughts suddenly creep in and when you feel like you have your spinal column permanently logged into the Electricity Board you're not exactly capable of normal logical thinking. Have been informed by an expert that this is a form of akesthesia.
Have also got lots of muscle pains (and weird bunches of 'contractions' which DONT hurt sometimes), still get unexplained fevers, and all sorts of other stuff. Worst of all to me is the lack of concentration, inability to focus on anything for very long and complete lapses of memory sometimes over stuff the day before, despite other people prompting me with facts that should bring some recollection to mind. A bit like Alzheimers I imagine would be. I want my brain back... WAAAAAH! Anyway, over the last 4+ months I've learned to expect symptoms of any known disorder from Scabies to Bubonic Plague LOL at any time :o}}
As far as the shaving off bits of tablet is concerned, can only go on other people's description because I never got that opportunity, but do know that even this can be ineffective with some people.
I started yesterday on Inositol - Vitamin B8 I think - in 500 mg dose per day, someone on the support board says that it takes the wired-up feeling away. You might not get that anyway, but by the time you might (as zaps start to subside) I'll be able to let you know whether the stuff works for me. If it does, then it might well be worth you looking into. I don't know whether it would help with the zaps themselves? Might also make them worse, so don't go taking ANYTHING without asking on support boards first where other people might have already tried it and know first hand whether it makes things worse.
Be careful with your doctor. Firstly, I think that IN LAW doctors are only obliged to 'take on board' the information that the drug companies give them. So the onus of responsibility lies fully with the drug company. And the doctors who DO know but won't admit to knowing - well, we can only guess as to why. Secondly, and more importantly, if your doctor takes offence at you telling her that it IS withdrawal, then you'll get a hard time there so remember that. I told mine ever so nicely, very carefully so as not to cause her to feel that her dignity and 'importance' was in any way compromised, but the news still got a really bad reception and I went out of there in tears and feeling absolutely alone and hopeless. So be prepared in case thats what happens to you too :) Your doc may well offer you other drugs or ECT or something for your symptoms, cos they undoubtedly come from YOU LOL...
Um.. regarding rule Britannia - it shouldn't. GlaxoSmithKline and its Paxil (Seroxat/Paroxetine) are British :( And all the stuff about USA lawsuits, etc, presumably GSK had to do whatever they do to pass their poisonous pills over in the UK first? Being as they are based in the UK? And however they passed it over HERE is nothing for the UK to be proud about.
Forgot to say in last message - I like YOUR writing too. Kinda enjoyed the little sparring sessions with you a few days ago, even though reading between your lines sometimes made me momentarily mad at ya. Appreciated your style and it was such a shame when you pointed out I couldn't pin the frothing at the mouth line back on you LOL :o}}
Hang on in there no matter how bad it gets. Remember you're not alone and its NOT you, its the drugs. Deflect your anger towards the drug companies. Keep focussed on the fact that your symptoms may go in a couple of weeks. DONT EXERCISE like some people think is an answer, it releases more seretonin into your blood stream and causes more symptoms (the neuroreceptors are damaged right now and the stuff is stored with nowhere to go, stored in muscles, organs and the pineal gland - if you exercise then the muscles release it into the blood, etc)(as far as I've found out and the only way I can explain it).
Rest as much as you can, even if your brain won't rest. DONT DRINK COFFEE (lots of people say its made symptoms worse). TOMATO JUICE and Tomatoes are presently being stated as GOODIES. Eat/Drink lots of tomato. Can't remember any more food stuff warnings - except keep away from Grapefruit altogether it interacts with all sorts of chemicals (and those produced by the brain) and is toxic with a surprising number of drugs - don't ask me why, though I think something to do with enzymes affecting the stomach affecting the way chemicals are absorbed or somut is what I remember.
FINALLY remember there's no known agent that will help. So taking other anti-depressant drugs will not. The only known help (which sometimes doesn't work either) is by weaning very slowly from Paxil, or going onto another SSRI (and it must be an SSRI) which might get rid of the withdrawals and then weaning from that one. All SSRIs are clones of Prozac. Prozac still does the same damage, but the withdrawals will be less as far as I understand it from other people who have gone along that route. And its the severity of the withdrawals that are so unbearable.
Big Hugs to you John-John.
Peas x
No need to say "you were right" - I wouldn't have believed it either had it not happened to me. Would probably have wondered what was wrong with those people complaining and arguing with drug companies all the time. I was quite trusting that a) my doctor knew what medication was necessary and b) that Paxil would help etc... Only realised on December 6th or 7th (went cold turkey December 4th) that something was VERY wrong. Found out just what was happening when I went on a search re the electrical shocks, thinking I had a brain tumour or was going to have a stroke or something.
LOL - I hope I remember to remove your post (I've copied it here so I can answer all your points) from this message, if I haven't, at least you know why your messages is in mine :)
The zaps (electrical shocks) (and other symptoms you might or might not get) are very frightening but PLEASE try to remember that it's NOT YOU, that there are LOTS of people out there going through the same thing and that quite a LOT of them don't have this torture for longer than a few weeks and I truly hope you are one of the latter ones.
As for being 'pissed off' - extreme anger is also very common and don't be surprised if it turns into a sort of rage, very very intense. I never used to get really angry at anything and I can't believe that the mostly placid person I used to be has become so very very angry. Someone in the early days last December reminded me a few times on the support board to "direct your anger where it belongs - at the drug company". That was GOOD advice. Far better than directing it at everything and everyone, so I'm passing her advice on to you. It actually DOES help some - its still scary to feel such rage, but at least then you are not harming other people with it. Keep in mind that your anger is all part of the chemical balance of your brain which has been altered, affecting your personality. I've found that at least I'm not so angry so often lately (maybe in the last month?) - presumably that part is subsiding.
I'm so sorry sweetie that you're going through all this, everytime I see a "newbie" in withdrawal it makes me want to cry - I am now USED to dealing with all this (most of the time, sometimes I still feel I can't stand it) but remember how terrified I was at the beginning. I just wish there was something I could say or do that would make you feel better.
At the risk of getting another bunch of phsychotropic drug advocates sending nasty emails (LOL, I can cope with it...) here's my email address if it helps, but I'm going away for the weekend (its a Mayday holiday weekend in the UK) so might not be back till Tuesday - if you DO email, don't expect a reply till then:
paula.***@****
Yes, I am still experiencing withdrawal effects almost 5 months into it. The effects have changed, the zaps are very rare but became replaced with what I can only describe as a "wired up" feeling which goes on for hours on end. These periods are dangerous to me, these are where suicidal thoughts suddenly creep in and when you feel like you have your spinal column permanently logged into the Electricity Board you're not exactly capable of normal logical thinking. Have been informed by an expert that this is a form of akesthesia.
Have also got lots of muscle pains (and weird bunches of 'contractions' which DONT hurt sometimes), still get unexplained fevers, and all sorts of other stuff. Worst of all to me is the lack of concentration, inability to focus on anything for very long and complete lapses of memory sometimes over stuff the day before, despite other people prompting me with facts that should bring some recollection to mind. A bit like Alzheimers I imagine would be. I want my brain back... WAAAAAH! Anyway, over the last 4+ months I've learned to expect symptoms of any known disorder from Scabies to Bubonic Plague LOL at any time :o}}
As far as the shaving off bits of tablet is concerned, can only go on other people's description because I never got that opportunity, but do know that even this can be ineffective with some people.
I started yesterday on Inositol - Vitamin B8 I think - in 500 mg dose per day, someone on the support board says that it takes the wired-up feeling away. You might not get that anyway, but by the time you might (as zaps start to subside) I'll be able to let you know whether the stuff works for me. If it does, then it might well be worth you looking into. I don't know whether it would help with the zaps themselves? Might also make them worse, so don't go taking ANYTHING without asking on support boards first where other people might have already tried it and know first hand whether it makes things worse.
Be careful with your doctor. Firstly, I think that IN LAW doctors are only obliged to 'take on board' the information that the drug companies give them. So the onus of responsibility lies fully with the drug company. And the doctors who DO know but won't admit to knowing - well, we can only guess as to why. Secondly, and more importantly, if your doctor takes offence at you telling her that it IS withdrawal, then you'll get a hard time there so remember that. I told mine ever so nicely, very carefully so as not to cause her to feel that her dignity and 'importance' was in any way compromised, but the news still got a really bad reception and I went out of there in tears and feeling absolutely alone and hopeless. So be prepared in case thats what happens to you too :) Your doc may well offer you other drugs or ECT or something for your symptoms, cos they undoubtedly come from YOU LOL...
Um.. regarding rule Britannia - it shouldn't. GlaxoSmithKline and its Paxil (Seroxat/Paroxetine) are British :( And all the stuff about USA lawsuits, etc, presumably GSK had to do whatever they do to pass their poisonous pills over in the UK first? Being as they are based in the UK? And however they passed it over HERE is nothing for the UK to be proud about.
Forgot to say in last message - I like YOUR writing too. Kinda enjoyed the little sparring sessions with you a few days ago, even though reading between your lines sometimes made me momentarily mad at ya. Appreciated your style and it was such a shame when you pointed out I couldn't pin the frothing at the mouth line back on you LOL :o}}
Hang on in there no matter how bad it gets. Remember you're not alone and its NOT you, its the drugs. Deflect your anger towards the drug companies. Keep focussed on the fact that your symptoms may go in a couple of weeks. DONT EXERCISE like some people think is an answer, it releases more seretonin into your blood stream and causes more symptoms (the neuroreceptors are damaged right now and the stuff is stored with nowhere to go, stored in muscles, organs and the pineal gland - if you exercise then the muscles release it into the blood, etc)(as far as I've found out and the only way I can explain it).
Rest as much as you can, even if your brain won't rest. DONT DRINK COFFEE (lots of people say its made symptoms worse). TOMATO JUICE and Tomatoes are presently being stated as GOODIES. Eat/Drink lots of tomato. Can't remember any more food stuff warnings - except keep away from Grapefruit altogether it interacts with all sorts of chemicals (and those produced by the brain) and is toxic with a surprising number of drugs - don't ask me why, though I think something to do with enzymes affecting the stomach affecting the way chemicals are absorbed or somut is what I remember.
FINALLY remember there's no known agent that will help. So taking other anti-depressant drugs will not. The only known help (which sometimes doesn't work either) is by weaning very slowly from Paxil, or going onto another SSRI (and it must be an SSRI) which might get rid of the withdrawals and then weaning from that one. All SSRIs are clones of Prozac. Prozac still does the same damage, but the withdrawals will be less as far as I understand it from other people who have gone along that route. And its the severity of the withdrawals that are so unbearable.
Big Hugs to you John-John.
Peas x
Hi Peagee,
(sigh)...OK, OK, you were right.
This paxil withdrawl sucks out loud. Was working today and thinking more and more about the anti-paxil websites and the people who have posted on them. As I sat there at my desk, the zaps occured in regular intervals, each as nasty as the previous one. These zaps feel like someone is electricuting your brain with a cattle-prod. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. Honestly, Peagee, I am frikin' pissed off now - and I am frightened.
I used to be in awe of these widthdrawl effects, but now I am angry. No medicine should cause **** like this. This is not right. You are correct to be alarmed and to confront the pharmies about this. I would gladly take back my depressed, yet SSRI-free self rather than be held hostage in this way. Taking Paxil is like making a deal with the devil.
Have you really experienced widthdrawl effects for months and months after having been off the med? What a god awful nightmare. What are your symptoms now? Your "shaving" tiny slivers off each pill to wean off sounds absurd to anyone else - but boy isn't it the truth! I have an appointment with my doctor next week. I am going to let her know in no uncertain terms of the NIGHTMARE those pills have introduced me to. She is an intelligent, experienced doctor. So why didn't she warn me of this? *****!
Tony Blair came down here for a visit here a short while ago to visit George W. Lots of Hoopla.
Rule Britania,
John-John
(sigh)...OK, OK, you were right.
This paxil withdrawl sucks out loud. Was working today and thinking more and more about the anti-paxil websites and the people who have posted on them. As I sat there at my desk, the zaps occured in regular intervals, each as nasty as the previous one. These zaps feel like someone is electricuting your brain with a cattle-prod. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. Honestly, Peagee, I am frikin' pissed off now - and I am frightened.
I used to be in awe of these widthdrawl effects, but now I am angry. No medicine should cause **** like this. This is not right. You are correct to be alarmed and to confront the pharmies about this. I would gladly take back my depressed, yet SSRI-free self rather than be held hostage in this way. Taking Paxil is like making a deal with the devil.
Have you really experienced widthdrawl effects for months and months after having been off the med? What a god awful nightmare. What are your symptoms now? Your "shaving" tiny slivers off each pill to wean off sounds absurd to anyone else - but boy isn't it the truth! I have an appointment with my doctor next week. I am going to let her know in no uncertain terms of the NIGHTMARE those pills have introduced me to. She is an intelligent, experienced doctor. So why didn't she warn me of this? *****!
Tony Blair came down here for a visit here a short while ago to visit George W. Lots of Hoopla.
Rule Britania,
John-John
Whatever you do, stay the hell away from paxil.
I have a question for everyone about Wellbutrin. I have recently been diagnosed as severely depressed. Happened over something occurrence in my life that has sent me spiraling downward after a terrible year of health problems and other things. First, they tried me on celexa. After five days, I was seriously lethargic, so the Dr. told me to stop taking it. Then, they tried Zoloft. Not much better. I stopped that. Now I realize that I am very sensitive to drugs and am afraid to try something new. Yet, I am seriously depressed and cannot (even with therapy) snap out of this. The Dr. has talked me into trying wellbutrin. I am starting off very light (35 mg. a day). Today is day two and so far, no adverse reactions. But...I am afraid of all of these drugs. Again...I know I can't pull out of this myself, right now. I have read some serious side effects about wellbutrin. Mostly about agitation and anger. Has anyone had a good result with wellbutrin. My body does not seem to hand ssri's very well. I know Peagee, that you are not an advocate of depression medicines, by what I have read (and I can honestly say I have not read everyone of your answers fully). But do you have some suggestions for me? I am truly confused about what to do next. Stay with the wellbutrin and see what happens. Has this med. helped anyone with depression? If so, I would like to hear from them as well. Thanks
You are going to CHARGE $19 DOLLARS TO POST A QUESTION??? Sadly, that proves about this site what I have suspected since I first visited here a week or so ago.
THere are very many organisations who run forums out there who have a genuine desire to help people, and they recognise that people who need help the most are predominantly those who are disadvantaged in some way or other and are thus least likely to be able to afford to pay to ask a question. Many of those sites are where the most valuable help and advice is given.
I expect the next step will be to charge for comments to existing questions? Until then I'll just hang around and ensure people know where to get genuine help.
Paula
THere are very many organisations who run forums out there who have a genuine desire to help people, and they recognise that people who need help the most are predominantly those who are disadvantaged in some way or other and are thus least likely to be able to afford to pay to ask a question. Many of those sites are where the most valuable help and advice is given.
I expect the next step will be to charge for comments to existing questions? Until then I'll just hang around and ensure people know where to get genuine help.
Paula
I'm sorry, firstly cos I got you mixed up with the questioner at the start of the thread (LOL, difficult to maintain concentration, it comes in 'bits'), but mainly that you too are now one of the victims and I wish I could say or do something that would really help.
Have been on cold turkey withdrawal for over 4 months and so have done lots of research and got lots of feedback from others in the same position and its been a sad but interesting learning curve. Despite all this searching, there doesn't seem to be ANY agent that will stop the withdrawal symptoms. Though there's some hope that Inositol (Vitamin B8??) will help one of the later symptoms. Will lead you to a site at the end of this where you can read the messages re this and other "hopeful help" questions and answers.
The only thing that seems will possibly work is to wean off the Paxil VERY VERY SLOWLY. I was taken off by the doctor (and in the UK you can't go to a drug store and buy medication like this) and had no choice. If you have only just come off Paxil I'd think about going back on and 'shaving' bits off the tablet bit by bit, week by week. THAT slowly. I THINK that it might well be dangerous (trying to remember people who have discussed this bit) to take another SSRI - or another antidepressant of any kind, not sure - alongside PAXIL. Seretonin Syndrome can be fatal. So, if you do go back on Paxil and wean off, remember this and look into it first. The absolute worst way is cold turkey. Probably why I STILL have some big problems after all this time.
Advise going to your doctor BUT, be warned ... many doctors will merely say that this is depression, anxiety, etc and try to UP your medication or change it. Paxil has the worst record to date of withdrawal. It is the PAXIL you need to withdraw from, very slowly. Arguing that it IS withdrawal with your doctor is likely to get you a most unpleasant consultation. They don't like to be wrong LOL...
I'm hoping you'll be one of the lucky ones and that everything will pass quickly for you. In the meantime, you might need a support board where people are almost always around. Its mostly people from the USA - so there won't be a time difference in posters with you (though its usually quiet there at my UK netting time).
OK, look at the Paxil Petition Board, though some of these are short entries, you'll see just how many people are going through this same experience and you'll realise that it's not YOu, its the drug. The petition site is here:
http://www.petitiononline.com/oky71/petition.html
And here's the QuitPaxil site where you can talk to others about how you feel and, when its busy, will get immediate replies (was the first site I found on day 1 of zaps - looking for brain tumour or stroke symptoms lol):
http://forum.onecenter.com/cgi-bin/forum/forum.cgi?c=forum&fid=paxilhelp&n=1
And here's my site which has an information board on it (it also has a discussion board but this is mainly used as a stand-by when the QuitPaxil site breaks down):
http://paxilsupport.homestead.com/Index.html
Thats the only way I can think of which will help. It certainly helped me when I found other boards, hope it does the same for you :)
Yep.... I do go on a bit (<:O} Used to be a lot more concise. WAS doing an access (foundation?) course and had been offered a place at Uni for a Creative Writing and English Studies degree course, but haven't been back to college to finish the access since beginning of December because of withdrawal. Spose there's always another year though.
Please don't feel bad about our earlier slight disagreements in this thread - its not important, doesn't matter. What DOES matter is that you (and all of us) get support while we are going through all this. Now get your butt over to the QuitPaxil Board LOL :)
Peas x
Have been on cold turkey withdrawal for over 4 months and so have done lots of research and got lots of feedback from others in the same position and its been a sad but interesting learning curve. Despite all this searching, there doesn't seem to be ANY agent that will stop the withdrawal symptoms. Though there's some hope that Inositol (Vitamin B8??) will help one of the later symptoms. Will lead you to a site at the end of this where you can read the messages re this and other "hopeful help" questions and answers.
The only thing that seems will possibly work is to wean off the Paxil VERY VERY SLOWLY. I was taken off by the doctor (and in the UK you can't go to a drug store and buy medication like this) and had no choice. If you have only just come off Paxil I'd think about going back on and 'shaving' bits off the tablet bit by bit, week by week. THAT slowly. I THINK that it might well be dangerous (trying to remember people who have discussed this bit) to take another SSRI - or another antidepressant of any kind, not sure - alongside PAXIL. Seretonin Syndrome can be fatal. So, if you do go back on Paxil and wean off, remember this and look into it first. The absolute worst way is cold turkey. Probably why I STILL have some big problems after all this time.
Advise going to your doctor BUT, be warned ... many doctors will merely say that this is depression, anxiety, etc and try to UP your medication or change it. Paxil has the worst record to date of withdrawal. It is the PAXIL you need to withdraw from, very slowly. Arguing that it IS withdrawal with your doctor is likely to get you a most unpleasant consultation. They don't like to be wrong LOL...
I'm hoping you'll be one of the lucky ones and that everything will pass quickly for you. In the meantime, you might need a support board where people are almost always around. Its mostly people from the USA - so there won't be a time difference in posters with you (though its usually quiet there at my UK netting time).
OK, look at the Paxil Petition Board, though some of these are short entries, you'll see just how many people are going through this same experience and you'll realise that it's not YOu, its the drug. The petition site is here:
http://www.petitiononline.com/oky71/petition.html
And here's the QuitPaxil site where you can talk to others about how you feel and, when its busy, will get immediate replies (was the first site I found on day 1 of zaps - looking for brain tumour or stroke symptoms lol):
http://forum.onecenter.com/cgi-bin/forum/forum.cgi?c=forum&fid=paxilhelp&n=1
And here's my site which has an information board on it (it also has a discussion board but this is mainly used as a stand-by when the QuitPaxil site breaks down):
http://paxilsupport.homestead.com/Index.html
Thats the only way I can think of which will help. It certainly helped me when I found other boards, hope it does the same for you :)
Yep.... I do go on a bit (<:O} Used to be a lot more concise. WAS doing an access (foundation?) course and had been offered a place at Uni for a Creative Writing and English Studies degree course, but haven't been back to college to finish the access since beginning of December because of withdrawal. Spose there's always another year though.
Please don't feel bad about our earlier slight disagreements in this thread - its not important, doesn't matter. What DOES matter is that you (and all of us) get support while we are going through all this. Now get your butt over to the QuitPaxil Board LOL :)
Peas x
Hi Peagee,
That wasn't my post regarding Wellbutrin and alchohol. Mine was regarding switching from Paxil to Wellb. and how it may vary in effectiveness. Not really a drinker, myself. Fancy that. I admire your different websites. It just occured to me that you are British, re the heavy doses of Euro-news and long-winded rebuttles. You write very well, though :)
Am going off the Paxil and it is not a smooth ride so far. Lots of zaps and disorientation. I have a new respect for your efforts.
Full and fair disclosure should be addressed. My doctor didn't warn me of this. I Probably would have been so naive as to take it even if she did so. Love to hear back.
Ta ta.
That wasn't my post regarding Wellbutrin and alchohol. Mine was regarding switching from Paxil to Wellb. and how it may vary in effectiveness. Not really a drinker, myself. Fancy that. I admire your different websites. It just occured to me that you are British, re the heavy doses of Euro-news and long-winded rebuttles. You write very well, though :)
Am going off the Paxil and it is not a smooth ride so far. Lots of zaps and disorientation. I have a new respect for your efforts.
Full and fair disclosure should be addressed. My doctor didn't warn me of this. I Probably would have been so naive as to take it even if she did so. Love to hear back.
Ta ta.
Why not do SEARCHES on the drug? Easy enough. Good luck whatever.
John-John is wrong. I'm not foaming at the mouth to answer these questions (or for any other reason LOL).
Information links, article extracts and explanations of search engine techniques have been posted (several times over a period of several days) and this information is clearly still visible on the forum.
I assume that people who have genuine concerns about an antidepressant will have read the relevant items and will probably have already started their own search to find out more specifically about their drug :)
Any person capable of finding one forum will quickly discover that they have the capacity for more comprehensive exploration, particularly once the available information gives a pointer. THOSE are the people I want information to be available to.
Which is why I'll pop back now and again to make sure that such information is still available here, ie, that it has not scrolled off by the time genuinely concerned new posters find this forum.
Have a nice day :)
Peagee
PS to John: I hope you are putting as much effort into finding out the answer to your original question re the effects of 'drinking alcohol whilst taking Wellbutrin' as you have in defending pharmas. You never know, the effects of the drug/drink mix you enjoy may be such that, in reality, it is actually YOU who ends up "foaming at the mouth" LOL...
You too have a nice day. Try NOT to "knock yourself out" :o}
John-John is wrong. I'm not foaming at the mouth to answer these questions (or for any other reason LOL).
Information links, article extracts and explanations of search engine techniques have been posted (several times over a period of several days) and this information is clearly still visible on the forum.
I assume that people who have genuine concerns about an antidepressant will have read the relevant items and will probably have already started their own search to find out more specifically about their drug :)
Any person capable of finding one forum will quickly discover that they have the capacity for more comprehensive exploration, particularly once the available information gives a pointer. THOSE are the people I want information to be available to.
Which is why I'll pop back now and again to make sure that such information is still available here, ie, that it has not scrolled off by the time genuinely concerned new posters find this forum.
Have a nice day :)
Peagee
PS to John: I hope you are putting as much effort into finding out the answer to your original question re the effects of 'drinking alcohol whilst taking Wellbutrin' as you have in defending pharmas. You never know, the effects of the drug/drink mix you enjoy may be such that, in reality, it is actually YOU who ends up "foaming at the mouth" LOL...
You too have a nice day. Try NOT to "knock yourself out" :o}
Why not do SEARCHES on the drug? Easy enough. Good luck whatever.
John-John is wrong. I'm not foaming at the mouth to answer these questions (or for any other reason LOL).
Information links, article extracts and explanations of search engine techniques have been given (several times over a period of several days) and this information is clearly still visible on the forum.
I assume that people who have genuine concerns about an antidepressant will have read the relevant items and will probably have already started their own search to find out more specifically about their drug :)
Any person capable of finding one forum will quickly discover that they have the capacity for more comprehensive exploration, particularly once the available information gives a pointer. THOSE are the people I want information to be available to.
Which is why I'll pop back now and again to make sure that such information is still available on the forum, ie, that it has not scrolled off.
Have a nice day :)
Peagee
PS to John: I hope you are putting as much effort into finding out the answer to your original question re the effects of drinking alcohol whilst taking Wellbutrin as you have in defending pharmas. You never know, the effects of the drug/drink mix you enjoy may be such that it is YOU who ends up "foaming at the mouth" LOL :)
John-John is wrong. I'm not foaming at the mouth to answer these questions (or for any other reason LOL).
Information links, article extracts and explanations of search engine techniques have been given (several times over a period of several days) and this information is clearly still visible on the forum.
I assume that people who have genuine concerns about an antidepressant will have read the relevant items and will probably have already started their own search to find out more specifically about their drug :)
Any person capable of finding one forum will quickly discover that they have the capacity for more comprehensive exploration, particularly once the available information gives a pointer. THOSE are the people I want information to be available to.
Which is why I'll pop back now and again to make sure that such information is still available on the forum, ie, that it has not scrolled off.
Have a nice day :)
Peagee
PS to John: I hope you are putting as much effort into finding out the answer to your original question re the effects of drinking alcohol whilst taking Wellbutrin as you have in defending pharmas. You never know, the effects of the drug/drink mix you enjoy may be such that it is YOU who ends up "foaming at the mouth" LOL :)
There is a forum participant out there named Peagee who is foaming at the mouth to answer this one. Knock yourself out Peagee.
After years of being depressed, I was finally diagnosed with depression last year. I was prescribed Serzone and within just a few weeks 2 1/2 weeks I noticed a remarkable diffence. Before the medicine I felt like all my emotions where out of control I was withdrawn, extremly sad and would be constantly crying. I could not think and many times found it difficult to get out of bed. I dreaded having to leave my home. Serzone changed my life. The medicine eliminated all my negative thoughts and I felt completely under control. The crying episodes went away and felt an overwhelming feeling of happiness. I use to spend days in bed and after the medicine I was so energized that I started go out and making plans for my life. I was on serzone for 5 months untill I my doctor advised me to get the medication because of negative side effects to the liver. The Doctor removed me from the medication and because I was feeling better I thought I would try to stay off anti-depressants. After about 2 months of being off the meds. I began sliding back into the depressed state I was in prior to the medication. This time the doctor prescribed Wellbutrin Sr 150mg. a day. I have been on the medication for almost 3 weeks and although I know that it takes at least 4 weeks to see any changes I am still feeling very depressed and now I even feel agitated and hateful toward people and myself. I would like to go back to feeling good again like i felt when I was on serzone. Is serzone still being prescribed and would it be wise to start taking the medication again?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1869000/1869162.stm
World Cup ticket giveaways are under investigation
German prosecutors are investigating the offer of perks, such as free World Cup and Formula One trips, to thousands of German doctors by British pharmaceuticals company GlaxoSmithKline (GSK).
Europe's biggest drugs firm said it was cooperating fully with the investigation and added the accusations stemmed from the period between 1997 and 1999, before Glaxo Wellcome merged with SmithKline Beecham in 2000.
"These are allegations we take extremely seriously ... We are investigating this internally and we will review this on a European wide basis," Christopher Viehbacher, President of European Pharmaceuticals at
GlaxoSmithline told the BBC's World Business Report.
Munich's chief prosecutor Manfred Wick said GSK offered money, free trips and other benefits to about 4,000 hospital doctors, and that there were suspicions of bribery and tax evasion.
The prosecutor said cash sums ranged from 50 to 25,000 euros (
World Cup ticket giveaways are under investigation
German prosecutors are investigating the offer of perks, such as free World Cup and Formula One trips, to thousands of German doctors by British pharmaceuticals company GlaxoSmithKline (GSK).
Europe's biggest drugs firm said it was cooperating fully with the investigation and added the accusations stemmed from the period between 1997 and 1999, before Glaxo Wellcome merged with SmithKline Beecham in 2000.
"These are allegations we take extremely seriously ... We are investigating this internally and we will review this on a European wide basis," Christopher Viehbacher, President of European Pharmaceuticals at
GlaxoSmithline told the BBC's World Business Report.
Munich's chief prosecutor Manfred Wick said GSK offered money, free trips and other benefits to about 4,000 hospital doctors, and that there were suspicions of bribery and tax evasion.
The prosecutor said cash sums ranged from 50 to 25,000 euros (
Dear Paula, a.k.a. Peagee,
Truce. Thank you for posting the two messages. I appreciate your taking the time to do so. I sounds like you are very well-informed on the topics which we were discussing. I clearly see your point of view, and I am very sadened to hear of the deaths of the people you mentioned, in addition to the problems of those which have signed petitions. It is surely a very sensitive issue, for many a tragic issue, and one that should be addressed. I was in no way trying to downplay the human suffering and losses which have occured. Every one counts. It just seems as though in addition to being curious to what others are going through and lending support where needed, you seem to put a negative twist on these med companies, like they are the all-knowing, "truth is out there somewhere" government we see in the show, "The X-Files". Come on Paula. Those medical companies are staffed with people just like you and me, and with researchers that are trying to make the best of a very difficult assignment. They are not composed soley of middle-aged men in grey business suits sitting in a darkened, smoke-filled board room. (well, maybe their lawyers are).
I don't get any joy from defending these companies, but honestly I have to tell you I'm glad they're around. It is an incredible wonder to me, that modern science is sophisticated enough to develop medicine that can actually go into your brain and try to relieve something so incredibly complex as depression or anxiety. It really is amazing. It's like puting a man on the moon. I would expect something so unbelievably difficult as treating depression would be chock full of hazzards and things that could go wrong. But for God's sakes I'm glad there trying to do this in the first place.
Look at it this way:
- Example, many people have adverse reactions to common anesthesias, some can even die if exposed to them. This causes real problems if they have to have surgery or have dental work done or even simple outpatient surgery. But I don't think the companies that make anesthesia are bad guys or out to do us in .
- If the medical companies could make a fail-safe pill to treat depression, they would. No reason not to.
- Depression is a disease, and antidepressants are an OPTION, an ALTERNATIVE to living with the disease. They are not perfect, not without drawbacks, and not without risks.
Any way, let me know what you think. Do this for me:
Give me a one or two-sentence phrase that tells me exactly what you feel the problem is and what should be done about it. Something descript and to the point. Please don't be ambiguous, such as, "SSRI manufacturers trade profit for blood" or "Eli Lily turns the cheek while thousands die". Tell me what you feel the solution could be in realistic terms and be SPECIFIC.
No more sparring, just freindly debate here.
I hope my spelling isn't too bad. Have a great day and thanks for the chat.
Truce. Thank you for posting the two messages. I appreciate your taking the time to do so. I sounds like you are very well-informed on the topics which we were discussing. I clearly see your point of view, and I am very sadened to hear of the deaths of the people you mentioned, in addition to the problems of those which have signed petitions. It is surely a very sensitive issue, for many a tragic issue, and one that should be addressed. I was in no way trying to downplay the human suffering and losses which have occured. Every one counts. It just seems as though in addition to being curious to what others are going through and lending support where needed, you seem to put a negative twist on these med companies, like they are the all-knowing, "truth is out there somewhere" government we see in the show, "The X-Files". Come on Paula. Those medical companies are staffed with people just like you and me, and with researchers that are trying to make the best of a very difficult assignment. They are not composed soley of middle-aged men in grey business suits sitting in a darkened, smoke-filled board room. (well, maybe their lawyers are).
I don't get any joy from defending these companies, but honestly I have to tell you I'm glad they're around. It is an incredible wonder to me, that modern science is sophisticated enough to develop medicine that can actually go into your brain and try to relieve something so incredibly complex as depression or anxiety. It really is amazing. It's like puting a man on the moon. I would expect something so unbelievably difficult as treating depression would be chock full of hazzards and things that could go wrong. But for God's sakes I'm glad there trying to do this in the first place.
Look at it this way:
- Example, many people have adverse reactions to common anesthesias, some can even die if exposed to them. This causes real problems if they have to have surgery or have dental work done or even simple outpatient surgery. But I don't think the companies that make anesthesia are bad guys or out to do us in .
- If the medical companies could make a fail-safe pill to treat depression, they would. No reason not to.
- Depression is a disease, and antidepressants are an OPTION, an ALTERNATIVE to living with the disease. They are not perfect, not without drawbacks, and not without risks.
Any way, let me know what you think. Do this for me:
Give me a one or two-sentence phrase that tells me exactly what you feel the problem is and what should be done about it. Something descript and to the point. Please don't be ambiguous, such as, "SSRI manufacturers trade profit for blood" or "Eli Lily turns the cheek while thousands die". Tell me what you feel the solution could be in realistic terms and be SPECIFIC.
No more sparring, just freindly debate here.
I hope my spelling isn't too bad. Have a great day and thanks for the chat.
The two sentences?
1. That the pharmaceutical companies conduct all drug research in an honest, open and ethical manner and that they disclose the results of those studies in a transparent way thus showing that they have a genuine wish to 'improve the quality of human life'.
2. That they then fully and comprehensively disclose the adverse side effects and withdrawal effects that they discovered in those original studies to the medical profession and so allow informed decisions to be made regarding the administration of medication to vulnerable people who might otherwise be harmed by such drugs.
Hows that? I don't really think that's too much to ask, do you? No "men in grey suits"? Maybe you HAVE read the lawsuit I posted somewhere on this board? The imagery in your reply rather reflects a fairly comprehensive interpretation of the links and extracts from professional legal and medical sites that I've been posting in my messages. Are you thus implying that the experts therein are having imaginative flights of fancy hmm?
Perhaps you should be arguing with them, perhaps you already are?? No point in arguing with me cos I didn't write the articles or do the independent research or take the pharmas to court etc. I'm just me.
Your stance is fairly clear - and this might be why you post here. Mine should also be clear from the two sentences you requested. And so we'll leave it at that shall we :o) You post your pro-antidepressant messages and I'll post sites that contain professional and independent scientific information regarding SSRIs now and again when I have the time.
Would just remind you of the openness and honest in the statement below:
" ... Battle Plan described by the Director-General of the ABPI [Associated British Pharmaceutical Industries of which GSK is a huge influence presumably as its the biggest pharma in Europe]and reported in the trade journal, Pharmaceutical Marketing, as follows:
"Now the ABPI has announced that it is launching the final stages of a campaign before it tackles the Government and the EU head on ... It is the spearhead of a carefully thought-out campaign. The ABPI battle plan is to EMPLOY GROUND TROUPS in the form of PATIENT SUPPORT GROUPS, sympathetic medical opinion and healthcare professionals - known as 'stakeholders' - which will lead the debate on the informed patient issue. This will have the effect of weakening political, ideological and professional defences
1. That the pharmaceutical companies conduct all drug research in an honest, open and ethical manner and that they disclose the results of those studies in a transparent way thus showing that they have a genuine wish to 'improve the quality of human life'.
2. That they then fully and comprehensively disclose the adverse side effects and withdrawal effects that they discovered in those original studies to the medical profession and so allow informed decisions to be made regarding the administration of medication to vulnerable people who might otherwise be harmed by such drugs.
Hows that? I don't really think that's too much to ask, do you? No "men in grey suits"? Maybe you HAVE read the lawsuit I posted somewhere on this board? The imagery in your reply rather reflects a fairly comprehensive interpretation of the links and extracts from professional legal and medical sites that I've been posting in my messages. Are you thus implying that the experts therein are having imaginative flights of fancy hmm?
Perhaps you should be arguing with them, perhaps you already are?? No point in arguing with me cos I didn't write the articles or do the independent research or take the pharmas to court etc. I'm just me.
Your stance is fairly clear - and this might be why you post here. Mine should also be clear from the two sentences you requested. And so we'll leave it at that shall we :o) You post your pro-antidepressant messages and I'll post sites that contain professional and independent scientific information regarding SSRIs now and again when I have the time.
Would just remind you of the openness and honest in the statement below:
" ... Battle Plan described by the Director-General of the ABPI [Associated British Pharmaceutical Industries of which GSK is a huge influence presumably as its the biggest pharma in Europe]and reported in the trade journal, Pharmaceutical Marketing, as follows:
"Now the ABPI has announced that it is launching the final stages of a campaign before it tackles the Government and the EU head on ... It is the spearhead of a carefully thought-out campaign. The ABPI battle plan is to EMPLOY GROUND TROUPS in the form of PATIENT SUPPORT GROUPS, sympathetic medical opinion and healthcare professionals - known as 'stakeholders' - which will lead the debate on the informed patient issue. This will have the effect of weakening political, ideological and professional defences
Here's the Paxil One. I hope you don't think that 3,380 people recently signed this with heartbreaking messages just for something to fill their time?
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?oky71
Oh heck, now I need to go search for the Prozac one...
OK, found it:
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?lilpro&1
Thats another 7,445 people. Near on 11,000 people who have felt bad enough or are grieving enough to have signed them. Just the few who KNOW the petitions are there and have internet access. There may be more petition boards - its just that I only know of those two.
I'd have thought that such a large number (albeit an insignificant 'small' percentage that got to the petitions) should at least bring a teensy weensy question into your mind? Such as: WHOA... not such a FEW people. Maybe you'll be in those petitions in time? Do you KNOW you that you won't? Or maybe you'll be lucky. Maybe GSK and Eli Lilley will have been forced into transparent conducting of research and full disclosure of their original findings by then. Maybe if you hang on long enough, those of us who ARE fighting for everyone's rights (including yours) will have succeeded in making the pharmaceutical companies accountable one way or another :) The time will come sooner or later as thousands upon thousands of people show they will support each other and have the courage to stand up against what is wrong. If you can wait that long your future drugs will be safe I expect :)
OK, time for me to go elsewhere tonight, somewhere of more help.
Hope you have a good day :)
Paula :)
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?oky71
Oh heck, now I need to go search for the Prozac one...
OK, found it:
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?lilpro&1
Thats another 7,445 people. Near on 11,000 people who have felt bad enough or are grieving enough to have signed them. Just the few who KNOW the petitions are there and have internet access. There may be more petition boards - its just that I only know of those two.
I'd have thought that such a large number (albeit an insignificant 'small' percentage that got to the petitions) should at least bring a teensy weensy question into your mind? Such as: WHOA... not such a FEW people. Maybe you'll be in those petitions in time? Do you KNOW you that you won't? Or maybe you'll be lucky. Maybe GSK and Eli Lilley will have been forced into transparent conducting of research and full disclosure of their original findings by then. Maybe if you hang on long enough, those of us who ARE fighting for everyone's rights (including yours) will have succeeded in making the pharmaceutical companies accountable one way or another :) The time will come sooner or later as thousands upon thousands of people show they will support each other and have the courage to stand up against what is wrong. If you can wait that long your future drugs will be safe I expect :)
OK, time for me to go elsewhere tonight, somewhere of more help.
Hope you have a good day :)
Paula :)
If you had read all the posts then you would NOT be asking me that question :) The "small minority" you refer to already is at least 10/11 thousand and thats only going from those who have a computer, have found out what is the matter and have found the Prozac Petition and the Paxil Petition. Not so small. If heroin kills a few hundred people do you think its OK that the drug pushers are allowed to carry on supplying it?
It seems you have NOT actually read the posts. If you were you'd have seen just TWO children who have died. TWO of very many. Do they not count for anything? Were they not as equally entitled to live as YOU? Or is it OK because it WASNT you? That, I think, is GSK's type of thinking. IF they're all right, then what does it matter about those who are not? If YOU are all right, what does it matter about clusters of dead children and adults hmm?
Well, it matters to ME. Is that OK with you? And it matters to ME whether or not other people get hooked up. And you say you "expect the worst" or words to that effect. Until you have EXPERIENCED the worst then you have no idea. And, if and when you DO experience the worst, I'd love it if you'd come back and repeat your last post. But you won't. Whether YOU like my posts or not is immaterial to me. Its just a shame that little 12 year old KARA (or her parents) and little DARCY aged 11 (or his parents) had not read posts from other victims. Because Kara and Darcy would then still be alive.
So don't knock my posts. They are needed by anyone (even if it is a SMALL MINORITY) that needs to read them. If you don't, then thats OK. But I will, if you don't mind, continue to post for THEM. For THEIR children.
There are many more children than the two I have named. I have several experiences of yet other children that have died, that I will eventually be putting on my website. I too am suffering from withdrawal and will do them when I feel able.
In the meantime, perhaps you would care to go visit the website and take a long look at those two children.
Kara's page is:
http://paxilsupport.homestead.com/kara.html
Darcy's page is:
http://paxilsupport.homestead.com/othervictims.html
when you have taken a look, then come back and tell the world that its OK for GSK to profit from deaths of just those two children? If you CAN do that, then my messages certainly are NOT for you :) They're there to help vulnerable people. Innocent people. People who are worth helping. Because I PUT LIVES BEFORE MONEY. I know that generally its considered OK for thousands of people to suffer (take Thalidomide for instance) so long as the company doing so shows huge annual profits (although if some other third world terrorist without such access of wealth and power causes a similar level of harm then its not so OK - yes?)but to ME its NOT OK. To Kara and Darcy's respective parents its NOT OK. To the 10/11,000 people on the Petition Sites its NOT OK. Its NOT OK to me or to them, nor is there much difference, whether suffering and death is caused by thugs, drug dealers, Adolph Hitler, bin Laden Saddam Hussein or GSK. NOT OK AT ALL. AND CERTAINLY NOT OK to look at little innocent faces, whether it be in the annals of Croatia, Biafra, Iraq, Iran, USA, UK, Germany, Thailand, India or ANY OTHER PLACE, whether the suffering be caused by Drugs, Landmines, Murder, Medication, or by any other means. PARTICULARLY NOT OK when it is NOT ACCIDENTAL. EVEN LESS OK WHEN IT IS FOR SOMETHING AS MATERIALISTIC AS MONEY.
If all that stuff IS OK by you....I don't know what to say. I'd rather be part of a species who cares about each other. Wouldn't you?
I have my own support site, a forum, an information site. Alongside other stuff I do and other boards that I support. I could do without the added burden. I don't post here for the fun of it. I have other things I could be doing. I'm not doing it for ANYONE who doesn't want it, I'm doing it for those who DO want/need information.
I wish you well when your own time comes :) And, if you don't mind too much (LOL or even if you do), I'll be posting here when I do have time in case there's just ONE PERSON who needs information and support. Or just ONE PERSON who feels that they do not actually need their life ruined further by side effects and withdrawal symptoms. If I can make a huge effort to do this, then maybe you can make a huge effort to understand the rationale and to be just a little more tolerant ? :)
No doubt we will meet again, you must be posting on a board for YOUR reason too? Presumably that is because you need support? But you have made it clear you do not need mine :) Thats IS OK :)
Paula
It seems you have NOT actually read the posts. If you were you'd have seen just TWO children who have died. TWO of very many. Do they not count for anything? Were they not as equally entitled to live as YOU? Or is it OK because it WASNT you? That, I think, is GSK's type of thinking. IF they're all right, then what does it matter about those who are not? If YOU are all right, what does it matter about clusters of dead children and adults hmm?
Well, it matters to ME. Is that OK with you? And it matters to ME whether or not other people get hooked up. And you say you "expect the worst" or words to that effect. Until you have EXPERIENCED the worst then you have no idea. And, if and when you DO experience the worst, I'd love it if you'd come back and repeat your last post. But you won't. Whether YOU like my posts or not is immaterial to me. Its just a shame that little 12 year old KARA (or her parents) and little DARCY aged 11 (or his parents) had not read posts from other victims. Because Kara and Darcy would then still be alive.
So don't knock my posts. They are needed by anyone (even if it is a SMALL MINORITY) that needs to read them. If you don't, then thats OK. But I will, if you don't mind, continue to post for THEM. For THEIR children.
There are many more children than the two I have named. I have several experiences of yet other children that have died, that I will eventually be putting on my website. I too am suffering from withdrawal and will do them when I feel able.
In the meantime, perhaps you would care to go visit the website and take a long look at those two children.
Kara's page is:
http://paxilsupport.homestead.com/kara.html
Darcy's page is:
http://paxilsupport.homestead.com/othervictims.html
when you have taken a look, then come back and tell the world that its OK for GSK to profit from deaths of just those two children? If you CAN do that, then my messages certainly are NOT for you :) They're there to help vulnerable people. Innocent people. People who are worth helping. Because I PUT LIVES BEFORE MONEY. I know that generally its considered OK for thousands of people to suffer (take Thalidomide for instance) so long as the company doing so shows huge annual profits (although if some other third world terrorist without such access of wealth and power causes a similar level of harm then its not so OK - yes?)but to ME its NOT OK. To Kara and Darcy's respective parents its NOT OK. To the 10/11,000 people on the Petition Sites its NOT OK. Its NOT OK to me or to them, nor is there much difference, whether suffering and death is caused by thugs, drug dealers, Adolph Hitler, bin Laden Saddam Hussein or GSK. NOT OK AT ALL. AND CERTAINLY NOT OK to look at little innocent faces, whether it be in the annals of Croatia, Biafra, Iraq, Iran, USA, UK, Germany, Thailand, India or ANY OTHER PLACE, whether the suffering be caused by Drugs, Landmines, Murder, Medication, or by any other means. PARTICULARLY NOT OK when it is NOT ACCIDENTAL. EVEN LESS OK WHEN IT IS FOR SOMETHING AS MATERIALISTIC AS MONEY.
If all that stuff IS OK by you....I don't know what to say. I'd rather be part of a species who cares about each other. Wouldn't you?
I have my own support site, a forum, an information site. Alongside other stuff I do and other boards that I support. I could do without the added burden. I don't post here for the fun of it. I have other things I could be doing. I'm not doing it for ANYONE who doesn't want it, I'm doing it for those who DO want/need information.
I wish you well when your own time comes :) And, if you don't mind too much (LOL or even if you do), I'll be posting here when I do have time in case there's just ONE PERSON who needs information and support. Or just ONE PERSON who feels that they do not actually need their life ruined further by side effects and withdrawal symptoms. If I can make a huge effort to do this, then maybe you can make a huge effort to understand the rationale and to be just a little more tolerant ? :)
No doubt we will meet again, you must be posting on a board for YOUR reason too? Presumably that is because you need support? But you have made it clear you do not need mine :) Thats IS OK :)
Paula
Dear Peagee,
I notice your name alot in this forum and it seems that your not too pleased with the anti-depressants that are on the market today as well as the companies that make them. I'm very curious about your being so miffed. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you have a bitter resentment toward them. Did you have a particularly bad experience with an SSRI or similar medication that has caused this anger? Why do you harbor such resentment for the companies that produce these medicines? You seem to liken them to the tobacco giants. Perhaps in some respects - but not an entirely fair simile. I'm thrilled that there are options for people who are cursed with depression, GAD, OCD, ADD, etc. These companies, LIKE ANY OTHER COMPANY, must make a profit to survive, and for them to promote their product in a positive light while downplaying the negatives is what any company does, they shouldn't be faulted for that. Also - NO, their products are not perfect for everyone, and YES, they may cause some people some serious problems (so do automobiles, faulty condoms, and Jack Daniels whiskey}. That doesn't mean they should be stricken from the public. The truth of the matter is that the negative websites that speak in negative terms are written by the small percentage of the patients that had bad luck with these meds. There are MILLIONS of people who DID NOT experience these catastrophies and were very successful with the meds. And these people will not be writing glorious positive stories on web sites - they don't have time to, for they're getting on with their lives. I dont think SSRIs are perfect, far from it. But we should admit that they are better than nothing. I take Paxil, and yes I have crappy side effects. I have gained weight, cannot perform sex so great, and realize that going off the meds is going to be a real *****. But I feel the freedom from that BLACK HOLE that doctors call depression is well worth the risk. I plan to go off of it sometime in the future and am hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. Thats life.
I notice your name alot in this forum and it seems that your not too pleased with the anti-depressants that are on the market today as well as the companies that make them. I'm very curious about your being so miffed. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you have a bitter resentment toward them. Did you have a particularly bad experience with an SSRI or similar medication that has caused this anger? Why do you harbor such resentment for the companies that produce these medicines? You seem to liken them to the tobacco giants. Perhaps in some respects - but not an entirely fair simile. I'm thrilled that there are options for people who are cursed with depression, GAD, OCD, ADD, etc. These companies, LIKE ANY OTHER COMPANY, must make a profit to survive, and for them to promote their product in a positive light while downplaying the negatives is what any company does, they shouldn't be faulted for that. Also - NO, their products are not perfect for everyone, and YES, they may cause some people some serious problems (so do automobiles, faulty condoms, and Jack Daniels whiskey}. That doesn't mean they should be stricken from the public. The truth of the matter is that the negative websites that speak in negative terms are written by the small percentage of the patients that had bad luck with these meds. There are MILLIONS of people who DID NOT experience these catastrophies and were very successful with the meds. And these people will not be writing glorious positive stories on web sites - they don't have time to, for they're getting on with their lives. I dont think SSRIs are perfect, far from it. But we should admit that they are better than nothing. I take Paxil, and yes I have crappy side effects. I have gained weight, cannot perform sex so great, and realize that going off the meds is going to be a real *****. But I feel the freedom from that BLACK HOLE that doctors call depression is well worth the risk. I plan to go off of it sometime in the future and am hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. Thats life.
ok here i go..., i am new here just reading these posts,and like my counsler said, people who usually write on this when they are unhappy with the ant-depressants that they are on.But i do love to read these and i find it interesting and useful in helping me as i am a recovering addict from opiates such as, vicoden,and pain killers,etc. To get me off the **** i was addicted to, my doctor well should i say my nueropychatrist gave me wellbutrin sr 150mg 2x a day, with serzone i believe 150mg at night. This worked wonders for me.Remind you that i was 130 pounds and came down to 90 pounds with the duragesic patch, i wore two 100's at a time(patches).So anyways, why did i ever stop the wellbutrin, and serzone!!I recovered great and so great that i even forgot i was ever depressed and forgot to even take the anti-depr's.Well the story gets sad, as i eventually get depressed again and again, i was taking celexa, and still became depressed bc i took vicoden as well, my doctor says that vicoden will make you depressed!So now i am taking celexa 40mg with wellbutrin 150mg once a day, for now and for now with just 5 days, i feel a heck of alot better!i really think my body missed the wellbutrin! it is a great drug and i do love it i hope it works for someone else too! But also keep yourself busy and think positive!!
I need help with this wellbutrin. Doctor augmented my dose from 300mg a day to 450mg a day (300 at night and 150 in the morning). My body feels better, but my head feels really heavy, empty-headed, in a fog. I was wondering if anyone has had experience with this and will it get better. It's a very prominent side-effect, and I don't know how much more I can stand of this. Thanks.
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