Just curious.

Heres something I do not get guys.I do not have MD but I can assume it ***** very bad.In my earlier posts on here,to yall I must ve appeared uncompassionate towards the disorder,but now with knowing more about it ,and looking back on everything my ex did,she fit the all the criteria for MD.One thing I just do not get on the emotional side of my brain is why do people with MD when it gets real bad cut the most close people to them out of their lives with surgical accuracy? The logical  side of my brain knows its the MD but my heart still hurts from it you know.I m just curious why?


p.s If I get any flak from anyone on here about posting about this,God help them.

[4Maddie44]

You still don't understand do you?  Depression takes everything away from us, we even cut out those we love most.  It is part of the illness.  You just have to accept that.  We do not enjoy anything that once meant a great deal to us.  

Just because your girl friend could not respond to you, you are always posting here about Clinical Depression.  Accept it is a really terrible illness.  We cannot help how we sometimes hurt others, because they just do n ot understand.

You could go on worrying about your ex-girlfriend and how her depression cut you out of her life.  Why can't you accept it and move on.  You are being very hard on us people with depression.  Remember, when we feel better, and  not so low, then we can approach and talk to people again.  Meanwhile, we crawl into our shell.

[michael852]

I m not trying to be hard at all.You speak about how I do not understand but  im just offering the other side of the coin here.Its just very painful for us ppl that do not have MD to watch someone you really care about destroy themself infront of you ,and you can not do a thing to help them,its a very powerless feeling that over comes you. Honestly if I could take away that pain that MD causes I would.So please dont you dare say or think I am un caring.Its hard to let go of 3 plus years and then this sad illness comes into the picture,maybe its you that should accept seeing someone suffer is a hard thing to deal with when your on the other side of it. Us people that do not have MD are not experts on this so do not treat us like we should have a PHD in it.The only thing we can do is try to get a understanding of it and that is what i m trying to do.

[swabes]

You have to understand that this is a community for people who suffer with depression. It is a very personal subject with us and a lot of us are going through terrible lows at the minute. It feels almost as if you are condemning us for having an illness we had no choice in.
It's great that you want to gain understanding on this, but your ex is your ex now. It seems to me you took her rejection of you during her depression very very personally, but it's part of the illness. No one expects you to understand. We are not demanding a PHD understanding from you and neither did your ex. When I get down I do the same as your ex did. When people get depressed they withdraw, I find it physically impossible to talk about my feelings and I do not expect people to understand them either. So I keep to myself and don't explain myself. I just want to be alone.

Honestly? If you want to gain an understanding of this illness there are countless websites for it. There are also relationship and breakup communities on here along with a community for people who have lived or been with someone experiencing depression. I think you should search for your answers there because so far it seems we can not help you much.
Also if you are posting on here, expect to get our honest opinions or critiscisms. Agressive warnings such as 'don't you dare' and 'God help them' will NOT do you any favours and we do not take kindly to threats.

All the best.

[brice1967]

My wife was trying her damnedest to try to understand my depression.  My wife is probably the smartest person I've ever met, but she could not wrap her mind around what I was doing during my depression.  Not only that, she was trying to put a "why" on my depression.

My therapist summed it up one day, pretty easily.  You are trying to put a logical label on something that is illogical.  You're trying to come to terms with an illness, its symptoms, and the side affects logically.  You're not going to be able to make logic out of the illogical.  It just can't be done.  

There are too many factors involved.  There's a thing called radical acceptance.  That is what this is about.  Since you are not your ex, you will not be able to perceive things as she does.  You haven't lived it, you were not tormented by it... you aren't in the depression so you cannot fully understand it.  What you can do is accept this.  It is very real.  You cannot change it, nor can she change the way she pushed you out of her life.  This girl is in a fight like none you've witnessed, because you are not her-she is not you.

Each of us processes things differently.  You might be traumatized by a dead body.  It might be the scariest, most morbid thing you've ever seen.  To me, its not a big deal.... what you witnessed and what you've felt are very real, so is me not being affected by the dead body.  It's perception.... you've got yours and it bothers you, and I've got mine and its not an issue.....for me.

I was mentally abused as a child.  The what I went through was horrible.... to me.  It might not have meant a thing to you as a kid.

My wife of 20 years tries to understand, but you cant.  The explanations don't make sense to us.  Often, we cannot tell you why we are depressed or whats wrong.  Those thoughts and memories have been repressed for years, maybe even decades.... but the hurt and betrayal are still there.  In your situation, you have to accept that your ex is tormented by her depression.  You have to accept that your failed relationship is unfortunately a byproduct.

You can't change it.  You cannot help your girlfriend.  You cannot understand what happened to her that put her there.  You just can't man.,

I appreciate your tenacity.  I really do.  I read something every day on depression to better understand what happened to me.  Perhaps you can research mental illness....

[nursegirl6572]

Excellent post, brice.

Michael, my honest opinion is that you need to start trying to let this go.  Leave the past in the past.  She isn't your GF anymore, and while you may care for her, there is nothing you can do to help her, you've done all you can.

Like others have said...you keep rehashing this over and over on a forum full of people who struggle with their OWN depression and darkness they don't understand.  How would you expect those people to offer a lot of insight into what your GF went through, or why she did the things she did?  This is a sensitive topic, and people are going to get a bit upset, especially the way you talk about depression.  You talk about it like it is some kind of character flaw at times.  None of the people suffering from depression has any control over it...any more than YOU have control over your OCD issues.  

Turn the tables around, what if I said to you,..."I don't understand how someone could have such an irrational fear of things like HIV??  WHY can't they believe it when an educated person tells them they had no risk??"  Then, I went into all kinds of detailed questions and assumptions, I think you would find that you would feel a little offended.  It's not something you can help...it's a mental illness.  Really...being that you also have the burden of a mental illness, I would think you would be a bit more understanding when it comes to depression.  

There is a world FULL of information out there about depression, if you want to learn...have at it.  Personally, and I've told you this before, I think you're obsessing a bit over the GF/depression situation, which may be part of your OCD.  I think you really need to start letting it go.  There are no solid answers for your questions, and your GF is not your responsibility anymore...you need to spend a bit more time worrying about YOU and your mental state.  I say that not to be mean or hurtful, just honest.

[brice1967]

Thanks for the kind words and the understanding.  Have you been afflicted with depression?

I waited 15 years after diagnosis before getting help.  Typical male, I was "too strong to need help for my problems".... such B.S.  I almost waited too long to save any kind of a relationship with my wife and kids, and that's shameful.  To have set them back and to have wasted their time is such a sad thing, but I can honestly say that if it weren't for them, I wouldn't have bothered to get help when I did.  And still, who knows what damage I caused them that may or may not pop up in the future.  I know I have right now to make this the best it can be and try not to waste a minute otherwise.

My wife, being as smart as she is, is also very inquisitive.  Her older brother is too.  They just have to know how things work.  But as I mentioned, my wife did her damnedest to try to learn the what's, when's and why's.  I understand what... the abuse.  But I could no accurately note my triggers and I couldn't tell you why I could have a string of good days and wake up one morning depressed.  My therapist couldn't necessarily figure it out.  What we did do in therapy is figure out what caused the depression and worked on that.  That helped immensely.  

Am I cured?  I don't think you can be cured of mental illness.  I think it is possible for most people to work with a therapist, dissect their case, and chip away at it and get things in the proper perspective.  I still take a med and yeah, I still feel depressed sometimes.  But now I can often find a trigger and deal with that, or I can look at things from the proper perspective.  I also learned that it is okay to have bad days.  Everyone does.... you just can't let them be the focus of your life.  And for me, my not paying the depression any attention for 15 years was allowing me all of that time to be depressed.

[nursegirl6572]

No thanks needed, TRULY your posts are amazing.  You're so very insightful and give excellent, honest advice.  

My struggle has been far more with anxiety, as I was Dx'd with Panic Disorder at age 18, but I've experienced secondary depression resulting from the anxiety and iot has been debilitating at times.  

The last few years I've been more depressed than anxious.  I bascially just "check out" of life.  I hardly contact people at all, and isolate myself something terrible.  I'll sit home and do much of nothing, but at the same time I'm bored, I have NO gumption to do anything.  ZERO motivation.  I actually consider myself lucky in some respects, while depression has touched me for sure, I've never experienced it to the point some people do where they become hopeless and full of despair.  My anxiety has made me feel that way, but not so much the depression.  I also agree that these disorders aren't really "curable", but they are manageable.  With help.

I commend you for addressing your issues, as a man, you face more challenges.  Like you said...men are supposed to be strong...emotions are reserved for women (which is a bunch or horse hockey..lol).  Also, you have done wonders for people by sharing your story.  So many men, when they finally reach out for help, rarely get the insight of a fellow man.  That's invaluable,

[michael852]

Yea I researched MD like crazy and well its just freaking sad what it does to people,such good people to.i wanting to put a logical face on the things that are from my understanding tearing the person up that you cared for so much up is natural reaction.Because want knnow whats hurting them. But the only thing that has come to my mind well I am powerless to help bc its an illness,and sadly I did my best and well it just got to bad for her.

Heres something I do not get why on here people get so pissy about you feeling a natural reaction,to someone else's pain,what am I not allowed to feel anything for that person? Another thing that bugs me on a level is that  I thought she was making progress and then she said its killing me,and before I knew she was well gone. Your damn I thought we were fighting this together,but MD is an internal battle I guess.  Its sad that her family is so ignorant about her condition or that is what she told me. I hope she polls through.

[nursegirl6572]

I don't think you're getting why people are being "pissy" as you put it.  Several of us posted above your latest post trying to explain that.  It's the context you use to describe depression, for one.  Almost like you're talking about leprosy or something, it's hard to explain.  Also, for some reason, it's irritating that you keep using "MD" over and over.  That's a very broad term, there are many mood disorders, she has depression.  That's not a huge deal, but personally, for me, it's annoying for some reason.

Perhaps try rereading what we've written to try to explain why your posts can come off as offensive.  I'm not really sure you're going to "get it", as you just continue to post the same things over and over.  Like this statement could be taken as offensive.."well its just freaking sad what it does to people,such good people to."  Good people?  That almost indirectly implies that depression should only happen to "bad" people.  I certainly understand that isn't what you mean, but I'm just being honest with you that your wording is offensive.

Also, you keep asking all of these "why" questions to people who are going through what your EX GF is going through.  THEY cannot figure out their own plight, how would you expect them to give you insight into what's going on with her?  The answer could be anything.  She could have suffered a horrible trauma in her childhood she has never dealt with, she could also have an anxiety disorder that is exacerbating the depression, or she could have been blowing smoke up your rear and using the "MD" as an excuse to pull away from you.  The possibilities are endless, we just cannot answer those things for you,  Even doctors still don't have a soild answer as to what even CAUSES depression, only theories.

I've told you MANY many times that I think you waste far too much time and energy researching HER problems, yet not nearly enough on your own,  You DO get that OCD is a lifelong struggle don't you?  I've read your posts ion the OCD forum, and you seem to expect that it's just going to fade away, despite people telling you that it doesn't.  Yet, you continue on, worrying about your GF's depression.  To be frank, you have your OWN issues that need addressed, and you seem content to just sweep those under the rug.  The "O" in OCD stands for "Obsessive", which is how you seem to be when it comes to your ex and her problems.  You really need to make a concerted effort to move on.  Your relationship with her is done (which I think for YOU is a good thing)...time to concentrate on yourself.  You couldn't help her when you were WITH her, you certainly aren't going to be able to help her now.  You also were in a bit of denial about the relationship also, when you came here, it had been 3 months since you really had any contact with her.  Ending it was the healthy thing to do.

You can torture yourself asking all these questions you'll NEVER have the answers to, or you can choose to leave the past in the past and get on with your life.

[brice1967]

It is sad what depression or any number of mental illness does do people.  As nursegirl said, doctors only have theories and statistics to go by.  Some treatments work for some case/people, and some don't.  It really is a crap shoot....  some folks move along easier, some folks stay stuck.  Sad is probably the most honest way to put it.  That's how I felt, sad... dark... helpless...unworthy...unloved...unwanted.  All of those things alone are sad and I felt all of them more often than not.  

Trying to clarify my condition... even when I was having a good day, my depression was like the thunder cloud on the horizon.  It might bring the storm or it might not.  In other words, sometimes my depression was doable on a day to day basis.

As for "getting pissy".  You really asking people to try to talk about something so personal, something so dark yet intimate, about themselves.  It's like you're exposing your soft underbelly for the world to take a chunk of.  Most depressed people tread real lightly around their disorder.  Men typically think they have no problem, so there likely will be no discussion about it.  Women, who are far more in control of their emotions feel disgraced maybe, on some level.  That goes back to what I said previously... about you and I seeing a dead guy.  You think its the worst thing ever and I think its no big deal..... The last thing a depressed person wants is to have another person "judge" them.

Take your OCD for instance.  I don't understand it.  To me, if you had to wash your hands 100 times before you left the house.... I would not get that.  I would see it as an issue, and I would urge you to get help.  HERE'S THE KICKER WITH THAT.  Only you can make the decision to address that.  If I held your hand, if I brought you a cold glass of water and wanted to talk about it... you'd probably tell me to buzz off....  Not in so many words, but that's what I told my family for years.  YEARS!!!  And the funniest, nonsensical thing is... I didn't want them to buzz off.  I wanted them there.  They were my joy, but a part of me wanted to be depressed rather than be happy.  How in the hell do I make sense of that to my wife and kids?  They don't get it... my therapist does, because its her lifes work and she's seen numeorus cases and heard numerous stories like mine.  And its not even like my therapist gets it, but she does accept it.  It's there, its real and a good therapist can feel it.

I don't have a problem talking about my issues.  Not only was I diagnosed with clinical depression, but also PTSD and major anxiety.  They are all inter-related.  Don't dissect it... I tried... Just accept it as is.  I talk about it because I have had some level of success, and I swore that if I ever felt better I would tell my story 10000000 times if I could help one person not feel so lonely.

Regardless of your support system, you feel lonlier than words can describe.  

Anxiety??? Holy $hit.... completely another night mare.  That explanation won't make sense either.... let me know if you want how I felt during attacks.

[Anneinside]

You are not going to get the answer you want in this forum. I suggest that you post in the Depression: Support for Families forum. You might get more sympathy there.

[michael852]

I never thought of it that way. Yeah and the OCD on my part is only about HIV go figure.What I am going through is a sense of loss and grief,I hope thats normal.  I do not want to judge and I really try not to but is all support that was tried to given seen as judgement form the MD point of view? Yea from what I ve read about MD the pain it cause I woudlnt wish that on my worst enemy.

[nursegirl6572]

Your support may have come off in many different ways...it may have been seen as "pushing", as insensitive, a lot of things, even if that was not your intention.  I cannot tell you HOW many times with my panic disorder, my dad told me "just stop thinking about it so much....you need to just get over it.".  But that's the thing,...with anixety, depression, OCD, ANY mental illness, we usually CAN'T just "get over it" without help, and the more our loved ones push for us to get help, and get better, often the more we feel like total failures.  One thing that is SO important to remember, like brice said...you cannot make someone get help.  You can encourage, urge, beg, plead, barter, anything...but only the person suffering can help themselves.

If you want to continue to explore this (which, in my opinion, I don't think is real healthy), annie made a great suggestion, you should check out the Support for Families forum.  You may get a different perspective there.  

[brice1967]

Michael, I do think that your sense of loss/grief is normal.  I think its probably elevated because of your OCD.  I think there is an OCD link somehow to the relationship or the disorder....  If so, I get that too.

When it comes to support< I really think you have to over simplify the situation.  Sitting there, always holding someones hand might or might not be the answer.  For me, it wasn't.  I had to have what I call a "coming to Jesus meeting".  This is not a biblical reference... this was me coming to terms with the illness and wanting to do something about it.  If you've read any of my journals, depression, anxiety, and I even think OCD is kind of like a depression.  We don't want to show "how pitiful we really are"....  I got to the point where I simply didn't give a damn. I had ruined or was on the verge of ruining my life.  All things important, suddenly came clear and I didn't want to risk them anymore. At the very least, I wanted my disease to know that I was in this fight.  

This is what people who are unafflicted don't get.  I think I said it before.  As muchy as I didn't want to be depressed, being depressed was almost comfortable to me.  It was the new normal.... You ever live in a $hitty neighborhood???  It isn't safe, but when you get to the sanctity of your place, you feel better.... that is depression.  You don't want to bring your friends over... You don't want to go around meeting the neighbors.... You want to survive, and you put yourself in a situation where only you can help you.

I dont know if I can explain it better my friend.  And again, I totally appreciate your tenacity.  It looks like you have a heart the size of Texas, and it looks like you'd do anything necessary to help.  Patience is the only thing you can have....  being there does nothing, wanting to help does nothing, knowing there is a problem does nothing, tryi9ng to talk about the problem does nothing.  It takes the realization from the afflicted to understand that there is indeed an issue.... then it takes the cajones to quit hiding and start fighting.  

[nursegirl6572]

I don't know how, but I missed this little diddy from your OP:

p.s If I get any flak from anyone on here about posting about this,God help them.

Seriously?  And you wonder why people got "pissy"?  When you post on a forum like this, you have to expect any and every kind of reply...the good, the bad, and the ugly.  Also, sometimes the truth hurts a little.  Making that statement was way uncalled for, IMO.

[michael852]

Yeah well I guess sadly she has not came to that realization yet. The weird thing was she told me she felt it and knew was was causing it,but I noticed as it went on the less and less self awareness of it she had,its like it became her. With me,the ocd literally had to drive me nuts to go get help and well I did and it helped of my phobia. The only thing I am going to do now is wait and be there from a distance you know. Thank brice I appreciate the insight I was looking for here.

[michael852]

P.s one thing that hurt me the most emotionally was when I was going through my first OCD flare up she refused to leave me and let me go through that alone,so in away I did not want to a banded   her in her time of need,it just feels you know weird.But I guess MD is a different type of monster then OCD

[swabes]

I completely agree with you NG. Reading that got my back up a little too.