Do antidepressants cause a lack of creativity?

[Loribop]

I am on Pristiq (the new Effexor) and have not painted since starting the med a few years ago.  Recently I set up all the things I need to paint, but I have no motivation to create.  I have started to slowly mean myself off Pristiq and will be seeing my psychiatrist tomorrow to discuss.  I have no sex drive and feel numb.  Are these feeling due to what I am going thru in my life (divorce, losing most of my pets, moving, losing my condo, owing money)? Or is it a side affect of antidepressants?  I want to paint again.  I don't want to become overwhelmed by feelings of guilt and sadness as a result of leaving my husband and my home.  I deal with these feelings at least once a day.  Life is hard enough, and I've taken antidepressants on and off for about 10 years.  I am scared to go off Pristiq, but I want to feel alive.  Prior to being on meds I only felt deep sadness and despair.  I can honestly say the meds took that away.  So if it's a toss up between not feeling despair and extreme sadness, but also losing creativity and sex drive Vs. being depressed but feeling creative, which should I choose?  When I am depressed I can't get out of bed and don't have the energy to paint anyway.  I think if I choose to go off the meds, I have to replace the pills with exercise, therapy, yoga (or some sort of relaxation) and nutrition.  These things should be my new SSRI. It's a lot more work than taking a pill, but worth it, I hope.  

This turned out to be more like a journal than a post!  Does anyone have experience with this?  Has anyone had to make this choice?  I, in no way, want to convince anyone to stop taking meds.  They have a very important role in our lives.  I just wonder if I should take a break.  My head is pounding and I have brain zaps, nausea, and dizziness as a result of cutting back on Pristiq.  I remember going off Effexor and it was pure misery.  I'm not looking forward to the next month or so, but I think i need to give this a try.  I can always go back on meds if I feel horrible off them.  Please share your experiences about this topic with me, as I could use the advice.

Lori

Lori

[ILADVOCATE]

Some anti-depressents can cause cognitive blunting more than others but it depends on the particular person and their response as well as the dosage. I know that the site "Depression Central" has full information on anti-depressents. You could do some research on your own and then speak to your psychiatrist about available options. Medication should not inhibit a person's creative life though I've had the same problem in the past with some medications.

[Loribop]

Thanks for your post.  I don't like experimenting with myself!

[Hensley258]

I have heard of this before, but have never experienced it. In the last 18 years I have been on at least 20 different psychotropic meds of one kind or another. (Pristiq being one of them)

During this whole period of my life I have had no trouble with creative thoughts. At home I designed my house inside and out, at work I have many times put together some very creative presentations that impressed many people.

Antidepressants don't change who you really are at the core of your being. If your a creative person then no drug can blunt this passion and ability.

Maybe it just your motivation that has been altered which seems like it's the drug.

Now with nothing to control my severe depression, Then I have absolutly no creativity. How can I be creative when my mind feels like it is being cracked like a nut. With depression gone wild there is no creativity, but only madness and torment.

[whodunnit]

Hi there,

Lots of questions really aren't there?

Your main question though is should you stay on meds that have removed the despair and sadness or risk the opposite. Without being cynical could I ask Are you for Real?

You know the meds work, you say so. You also know the depths of the opposite feelings to what you have now.

So really your question is not a question at all is it? It's a hope, a wish.

I do regularly go off meds, in between old and new as I need to change regularly as they wear out often. I do this in the same vein you are thinking, hoping I can do without this stuff. I have lasted about 6 weeks at best over 10 years which is actually great but what's not great is getting those old feelings starting to creep back in causing me to return to meds. It's quite terrifying when I feel the cracks widening but I want to know so I give it a try.

Why not, as long as you know the danger signs and when to go back. If you feel the danger signs and ignore them, well you know how that goes I imagine.

There is nothing to fear though in going off meds as long as you do it with your doc's advice and supervision and you are ready to change tack when needed, quickly too. At least you'll know, right? AFter 10 years I'd try it. Well, I have many times in 10 years.

The feelings you describe would seem to be largely related to your life events although the sex drive is certainly a med side effect, as depression is too on our sex lives.

As to your underlying question about creativity I have no doubt that both depression and meds quell it big time. Unless you are bi polar in which case the manic side spurs creativity to unbelievable levels, some abslute tripe and some great stuff. The lows just take everything away, bp or otherwise.

You can't wake up, don't want to get up, don't want to do anything and feel you really can't. That is very real. Motivation, concentration and memory are reduced, sometimes to zero so how could you create feeling like that?

Putting the 2 questions together, let's say you go off your meds, you seem to be anyway, I hope you are talking to your doc, and feel alright. You are likely to feel quite good for the first couple of weeks once the withdrawals stop, I usually do, feel great actually for those 2 weeks.

At that stage you'll think "Yes, this is what I wanted!" and think you've resolved it. You'll start planning your new life and painting and all the rest.

In the best case that is what will happen, you'll be better and stay better.

On the other hand it is more likely, after a 10 year bout with Mr D, that you'll decline somewhat after a few weeks. Those feelings you describe above will increase and take away your enjoyment and will.

You propose to replace meds with exercise etc. May I ask how you will be able to exercise when the motivation, energy and enjoyment is missing? How will you be able to do those things if you can't get out of bed? Be realistic about this. Try but set your hopes at the lowest level as otherwise you'll feel disappointment.

Why not do all that stuff now, while on meds as well? ANswer? You can't, right? SO how will you do it feeling worse?

Most of what I've written here is the sort of things I've run through when I think about going off and what I hope for when I do go off the meds. Now I know I am unlikely to last but I also know I'll get a break from these damned meds.

As to creativity. When I am not feeling very depressed I can't do anything. When the depression is lighter I certainly can be creative. I write, or try to at least. I can compose chapters of my book(s) while lying there waiting to sleep, and edit them and add etc etc etc. Easy. But can I write it down? Mostly, No. When I have a small high on the bp side I can just sit down here and open the document and it writes itself as I've already written it in my head.

At other times it's a bit like trying to turn water into wine. When I write it's still water. But sometimes I can do it when depressed. So I keep working at it and enjoy the process. I'm over 300 pages (paperback size) right now and the end of one book is in sight at last.

Have a go. Don't do it without the doc's input and don't hope too high. Focus on what you can do now and that should tell you how hard it will be off meds if you do deteriorate. And remember there's no shame in trying and going back. It's the only thing to do.

[Loribop]

Thanks to everyone for answering my post.  

Hensley258, you are so right that antidepressents don't change who you are at your core.  I just can't figure out why I am blocked from painting or doing crafts.  I don't dream, I have no sex drive, and I can't paint.  

Whodunnit, yes, I AM for real.  I would love to exercise, and will, once my head stops being zapped with electicity and my dizziness goes away.  Every psych med I've been on stops working at some point.  There are studies which conclude that Pristiq works well at 50mg but raising the dosage usually does not help.

"For Pristiq, it is recommended to start with a dose of 50 mg daily, which is also typical maintenance dosage. This guideline is based on two things: data showing inconsistent improvement with dosage increments and the finding that patients are generally able to tolerate 50 mg daily as a starting dose."  Johns Hopkins health alerts.com

I've never heard of this before.  Usually when a med stops working for me, the Dr raises the dosage.  Since I don't feel the Pristiq is working, I will probaby be titrated off of it anyway before starting yet another medication.

Once I go off Pristiq, I don't know if I will have have the motivation to replace the meds with exercise, but I don't have the motivation on the meds to do anything physical, so what have I go to lose?  I called my Doctor's office regarding not spening $150 to refill a drug I may want to go off of.  Monday was the soonest they could fit me in.  I explained that I was going to start to lower the dosage.  I took the few pills I had left and split them in half (actually into quarters and take two quarters each day; one in the am and one in the pm.)  

One last thing, if Van Gogh was on Prozac, do you think his work would have turned out the way it did?  How many artists (music, literature, fine art, etc) produced great work as a result of depression?  Would I rather be a depressed artist or a numb non artist?  

I wrote the post because I was wondering if anyone else has experienced this loss of passion.  

L

[whodunnit]

I guess you didn't read all my post as I told you my answer to your question. And the answer is yes. I also encouraged you to go off your meds as long as your doc is helping. Telling the receptionist is not the same thing.

I'm afraid you are confusing bi polar depression (creative) with depression (non creative as it just takes all your energy and enjoyment away.)

The creative influence is bi polar as I stated in my first post. If you had read it you would know that.

If you seriously think very depressed people are capable of producing great art then I feel sorry for you. How on earth do you know how Van Goghmay have been on Prozac? He may have kept his ear for a start. That's a very silly thing to say actually as it is not capable of being proved, either way.

My post was not antagonistic in any way and it is clear you just wanted people to agree with your decision. Just go ahead and do what you want, it's the only way.

Quoting what you have about your med is quite meaningless as all meds DO need extra doses to continue giving benefit. What you have quoted applies to that med as a starting point only and does not cover the full use of the med.

Try thinking this through and imagining why you think you can exercise if you are very depressed when you can't now. That's just another reality I raised with you, not a denial that you can.

Good luck.

[Loribop]

I did read the entire post and I appreciate the time and effort you took to reply.  I guess I had trouble with the tone in some parts of the post.  It did appear antagonistic to me.This happens a lot when one reads an email, etc.  

My original question was "Do antidepressants cause a lack of creativity"  I am not asking for anyone's permission, as you stated, I already made the decision and started going off the meds. I think the post turned into a journal entry.  I just wanted to know if anyone has experience with this.  Has anyone gone off their meds and experienced a renewal of creative energy?

I looked on the net to see what the dosage was for Pristiq.  What I saw several times was that raising the dosage made no difference.  Thus, since I'm not sure the medication is still working, raising the dose may not help.  I've never heard of this either!   I always have to raise the dosage at some point when medications stops working.  If I have to start a new medication, I will have to go off Pristiq anyway.  
"In the studies released so far, Pristiq just barely squeaks by placebo on the Hamilton Depression scale. In the U.S. study, Pristiq decreased the HamD by only 2 points (-11.5 vs. -9.5 for placebo), and in the European study, the differences was 2.5 points. And for the higher 100 mg dose, there was no difference between drug and placebo for U.S. patients."  This is from the Carlot Report.  I didn't read the whole thing.  There are other sites which imply that the 100mg was no different than the 50mg.  I'm no expert, but I don't understand this.

I was reluctant to post here, and I think I may need to find another website.  I do appreciate the long response.  As a new member of this community, I did't feel the warm and fuzzy blanket of support I have found elsewhere.  Thank you again for taking the time to reply.

[iam1butterfly]

My mom has used many anti-depressants (including Prozac, Cymbalta, Lexapro and Pristiq). Based on her experience, I would recommend that if you decide to go off of the Pristiq, ease off slowly because abruptly stopping it can result in some pretty harsh side effects.
As for your initial question regarding creativity... unfortunately, it seems a bit like a "Catch 22" situation... the meds, indeed, tend to dull and flatten the senses. According to my mom, the anti-depressants relaxed her so much so, that she felt robbed of her motivation and drive. But, the Depression itself, robs her of sleep which, in turn, saps her vitality.
What she does is a lot of praying (she's very Catholic). And, that praying puts her in a positive mind frame. Also, I've been taking her out a lot... mostly to the beach and to the mountains... she says that being among nature is the best medicine. At least, it seems to work for her... if only for a short time.  
Take care and good luck in whatever you decide to do.

[whodunnit]

Hey Lori,

If it's warm and fuzzy you seek then I think you are right. Here people tend to deal in facts and reality rather than what they'd like to happen.

I've been in many warm, fuzzy forums and frankly they usually end up being places of nasty gossip and back stabbing if anyone DARES to speak the truth instead of the mantra of "support". Support is useless if it encourages you to do things that hurt yourself. It is the opposite of support.

If you simply want yes men/women and those who tell you what you want to hear then, yes, there are plenty of such places. But they are actually useless when you get into bother and need real help.

Could I suggest you read your first post again? In that you make a statement which is quite telling to me.

That is "I don't want to become overwhelmed by feelings of guilt and sadness....".

No Lori, no one does. But the way to achieve that is not to give up meds that relieve that and plunge into the unknown with no return ticket. All I'm really saying to you is certainly try without meds, we all want that too. But don't be a martyr if things do turn down.

Back to dealing with those feelings, the way treatment works, Lori, is that meds relieve the worst of the symptoms to enable us to undertake talk therapy which is truly the only way to resolve issues and fears etc. You do that while your mood is as high as you can achieve on meds simply because you are more rational and able to think clearly. As well as absorb whatever it is you uncover or learn.

If you are very depressed therapy is a waste of time as you see things negatively only you see.

Join some of the warm, fuzzy forums and see how much actual info is exchanged, see how upset people get if you don't say "Hi". Maybe it's the sort of environment you thrive in, who knows?

Do also remember that the end of a long term relationship, moving from your home and related are huge negative events. It matters not who creates the break, both suffer and sadly it takes time to adjust. But focus on why it ended and the need for you both to have a new start to move towards what you really want. You are not responsible for another's feeling's. Never.

I do mean good luck with your future and I hope you can paint what you envisage. I know from wanting to be able to write for so many years and then actually starting and continuing it how satisfying that is.

[Loribop]

Just came from the Dr.  He put me on Sam-E to help with the side affects of going off the meds.  We have a backup plan if things start to go sour for me mentally.  He said that he has had very good results with Sam-E.  What amazes me is that years ago he would prescribe things on a prescription pad and would never send a patient to a vitamin store.  I am so glad times are changing and Docors are finally getting it.  

Whodunnit, I really don't want to quarrel with you.  Perhaps I went off on a rant in my post and I don't expect anyone here to be mindreaders (wrong forum...LOL) My real question was the one in the title.  I got my answer from the Psychiatrist.  He said it was very common to lose that part of your self.  Also, I was titrating perfectly and to keep doing what I was doing.  I've done this before; been down this road.  Again, thanks for putting the time into writing back.  

Not sure if anyone really cares, but I will keep you posted on this experiment.  If all else fails, the Dr. said we will try another med that has less sexual side effects.  Also, he wants me to sit under my painting lamp (it is all spectrum) to prevent SAD.  

Lori

[jimi1822]

You will Forever be in my Prayers and Blessings the rest is up to you. Happiness doesn't come in a bottle, the bottle just buffers the reality and masks the Present.

                              "Depression loses its power when restored Faith,
                                        and Vision pierces the darkness."

                                                             quote by Peter Sinclair
                                                             with a little input by jimi <3 (little wing =0) <3

                                                "Blessed are those who mourn,
                                                 for they shall be comforted."

                                                                              ~ Matthew 5:4

[whodunnit]

Hi again Lori,

No argument, it's just my style, or lack of due to many years of formal report writing in my career. I know it comes off quite dry and blunt often but it's how I write on this topic, depression. I tried the fuzzies and discovered that 10 posts filled with huggles, kisses and "I Lub U"'s from people I did not know, probably would hate in person, and them me and would never meet to be quite useless. I even tried to participate and felt like a complete moron as it wasn't real, meant nothing and helped no one.

My ambition is always to bring to someone's attention things I think are relevant to them. If the person doesn't see it then hey, that's normal, like about 90% of the time. You can't tell anybody what to avoid as they are determined to make their own mistakes themselves. I was so why shouldn't everyone else? Right?

I have 4 kids, 3 adult now and do you think they ever listened to advice once they thought for themselves? Absolutely not. Mind you they'd often come rushing home months later with this revelation their best friend told them about. Being something their mother or I had advised them on months before. Aghhhhh.

I'm please you plan to return and update us as there is nothing more inspiring than a story of success against the odds. I'd be happy if it were you.

Careful with those ears by the way! (That's a jest just in case it's not clear!!)

As you might guess I'm not a fan of vitamens and alternatives so I won't comment there given you've got a doc to advise you on it. Good thought on the SAD though. Someone else here said SamE helped with withdrawal from Effexor. Maybe it was Hensley, correct me if I'm wrong Hensley.

[remar]

Yes Lori, please keep us up to date on how your doing with coming off the Pristiq. I'm glad to hear you have an opened minded Dr and I hope the SamE helps you. You might want to take a good B Complex, if you are'nt already. And get plenty of magnesium and calcium. People that have depression and anxiety are usually low an these.
I understand what your going through. I've been on and off antidepressants for many years. I've quit several of them because they either made me feel like a zombie or made my feel too wired.
I'm wishing you the best and I hope you are able to start painting again very soon. Take care. Remar

[Loribop]

Thank you so much.

Thanks to Jimi little wing too, for your kind words.

LL

[remar]

Your welcome Sweety. You can always PM me any time if you want to talk.

[Loribop]

Hello,

A little update here.  My head has finally stopped zapping and I am feeling creative again.  Is it all psychological?  Also, I am feeling a lack of patience, muscle twitching, and still have headaches.  

Check out my new painted pieces!  

Lori

[lifesux_thenyoudie]

I'm interested in this topic because I'm a musician. You are not alone Loribop.

I am not sure if antidepressants cause us to be less creative. I think that age does and from experience I do know that depression lowers creatiivity and sex drive.

Depression to me is a loss of faith and hope in everything including our own ability which in turn lowers the chances and liklihood of success. In shrt when your depressed - whats the point? I'm sure you know what I mean.
We were depressed first right? Then were medicated?

If and when they can get the meds right we'll be thriving again painting, composing and doing it like rabbits.
So if that is the case anti depressants will enhance our creativity...... heres hoping

[slattery]

I would have said that my Effexor XR (several years) has not had that effect on me. But possibly, I no longer can judge objectively. It sounds like you're doing quite well now and I hope that continues for you. I too left my spouse amidst depression and know that both guilt and confidence can accompany such a decision. Be well. Now I'll look up Pristiq. It's remarkable anyone can wean themselves off Effexor.