After searching the internet and coming up with nothing time and time again about this mix... I am left in a slight dilemma. Firstly,I take Wellbutrin XL 150 mg per day for depression. I find it is working well for me. It does not cause me to be agitated at all. In fact, I feel totally normal on it. It has had the opposite effect on me I find, making me more relaxed or sleepy at times. I take the Wellbutrin XL at 8am everyday.
By the time 5pm rolls around, I want to hit the gym. I live in dreary climate.. London, and I find I need something to help me weight train and have energy, get results etc. so I started taking a Bsn product some might consider controversial called No Xplode - ingredients listed below -- a nitric oxide / caffiene supplement. Reason why I am posting here is I really need a solid answer. I moved here from the U.S a few months ago and doctors here are not familiar at all with the drug Wellbutrin to treat depression - they seem to know less than me about it's effects and how it works.. so I can't ask my MD here.. I get my Wellbutrin from my dr. in the U.S - who I don't think would know what no xplode is over the phone.. So I need help from someone who knows..
I have not noticed any negative effects but I just started taking the n.o and i only take 1 scoop - the lowest dose/// I also take cell mass, a creatine supplement.. but I could cut that out if need be. Mainly, I find without the sports supplement I can't weight train properly and get good results - which in turn when I have a good workout and see results, I feel better in general, and happier - however, I am concerned about any long term effects or damage I might cause, with neuro transmitters etc. when combining these substances .. Here are the no xplode specs -- anybody know the deal? or know of a safer, better supplement for weight training / energy, muscularity etc?
"NO-Xplode is a Nitric Oxide boosting, muscle enhancing energy drink mix. The main component of NO-Xplode is its MetaFusion™ blend of ingredients. In this blend you will find the Nitric Oxide portion of this supplement, L-Arginine AKG. Arginine is a semi-essential amino acid. It is a building block of protein that performs a myriad of physiological functions. It is a known precursor of the gas nitric oxide [N02]. Arginine is the most important component of any NO supplement.
NO-Xplode also contains some Creatine, Caffeine and Nootropic Ingredients that help you focus on the task at hand.
Individuals sensitive to stimulants should begin use with half the recommended dosage(1-2 scoops) to help access your tolerance. Seek advice from a health care practitioner prior to use if you have any pre-existing medical condition including (but not limited to): hypotension, hypertension, heart liver, or thyroid disease, diabetes, psychiatric disease, asthma, pernicious anemia, anxiety, depression, seizure disorder, cardiac arrhythmia's, stroke, difficulty urinating due to prostate enlargement, or if you are pregnant or nursing. Reduce or discontinue use if excessive sleeplessness, tremors, dizziness, nervousness, headaches, or heart palpitation occur. For use by healthy adults only. Not intended for use by persons under the age of 18. Keep out of reach of children. NOTE: Due to the translucency of the bottle, do not store in direct sunlight. Store in a cool dry place."
The "sports supplement" is unsafe in itself. I strongly suggest you stop taking it. I am going through the ingredients and tyrosine in itself in me caused me to have dangerously high blood pressure. Others of those ingredients are useless. Take a standard vitamin and mineral supplement. Tyrosine and taurine and many other things you will find in the local health food store are outright dangerous. There are some natural remedies for use in depression that are somewhat of help but they should only be taken with a psychiatrist's supervision. What you are describing is not one of them. I'd strongly suggest that you not take it, its probably doing more harm than good if any good at all. Its an unknown quantity which is never a good thing.
The post above is spot on. The supplements you buy from 'Holland & Barrett' or wherever you get them tend to be poorly researched and their mode of action is usually not fully understood. It's likely there's no research specifically investigating how your supplements may affect the metabolism and excretion of your Wellbutrin. Most of the research also seems to suggest that proprietary supplements are of little or no benefit to your training. Go clean - it's foolhardy to train to improve your health whilst augmenting your training with junk that could give you long-term health problems.
I feel the same way - Only that, I honestly can weight train much, much better when I have the energy drink, it also provides stamina and strength for my lifting, and I really need my work outs to feel good so, I'm still left to decide. Maybe one scoop 3 x a week , and a lot of water, ain't so bad -- I drink absolutely no coffee.
My main concern is that I hear that Tyrosine can effect dopamine etc. And I am wondering if there are any known complications between a substance like this and wellbutrin etc. I wouldn't want to get serotonin overload syndrome or anything Iike that - tho I do feel super happy and buzzed after working out, and no I don't crash from it either.. mood wise.
Also, not sure if Taurine effects neurotransmitters etc.
"In the adrenal gland, tyrosine is converted to levodopa by the enzyme tyrosine hydroxylase (TH). TH is also the rate-limiting enzyme involved in the synthesis of the catecholamine hormones dopamine, norepinephrine (noradrenaline), and epinephrine.
The thyroid hormones triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine (T4) in the colloid of the thyroid also are derived from tyrosine."
Tyrosine is a precursor to neurotransmitters and increases plasma neurotransmitter levels (particularly dopamine and norepinephrine) but has little if any effect on mood. The effect on mood is more noticeable in humans subjected to stressful conditions (see below).
A number of studies have found tyrosine to be useful during conditions of stress, cold, fatigue, prolonged work and sleep deprivation, with reductions in stress hormone levels, reductions in stress-induced weight loss seen in animal trials, improvements in cognitive and physical performance seen in human trials. Because tyrosine hydroxylase is the rate limiting enzyme, however, effects are less significant than those of l-dopa.
Tyrosine does not seem to have any significant effect on mood, cognitive or physical performance in normal circumstances. A daily dosage supported in the literature is about 100 mg/kg for an adult. The usual dosage amounts to 500-1500 mg per day (dose suggested by most manufacturers; usually an equivalent to 1-3 capsules of pure tyrosine). It is not recommended to exceed 12000 mg (12 g) per day. In fact, too high doses result in reduced levels of dopamine. Tyrosine may decrease the absorption of other amino acids in high or chronic doses. It decreases absorption of l-dopa.
Tyrosine appears to be a successful addition to conventional treatment for cocaine abuse and withdrawal. It may be used in conjunction with other amino acids such as tryptophan. Some individuals using tyrosine have also reported successful withdrawal from caffeine and nicotine.
So, do you want a real answer or justification for why you are taking it?
This stuff is dangerous in many ways, you are messing with your heart, endocrine system AND your mental health. I cringed at the list of ingredients. Many them can triggers some emotional side effects. You can work out without all those supplements, people have done so for years. You are also working out too late and messing with you sleep health. Just because something is touted as natural does not mean it's safe, prime examples, St.John's Wort, Valarian, SAM-E.
Take normal vitamins if you aren't eating well enough, see a dietitcian. Taking these supplements are dangerous and not supported by the FDA (Food and Drug Administration) Wellbutrin is a common drug here, normally prescribed by psychiatrists, family doctors are not equipped to do so. I would get a referral as well, to manage your depression.
Tyrsosine alone is enough not to take it. It does indeed increase dopamine levels which is not a good thing. It made me psychotic for this very reason as well as raising my blood pressure to the point where if I hadn't been on Atenolol (for other reasons) I might have died. You really need to go off this "sports supplement" and yes research is good. Its just that half of the "information" out their on the internet and even some "self help" books are filled with misinformation. Every natural remedy is an unknown quantity. That doesn't mean some don't work but they must be supervised by a psychiatrist and some will do that (such as mine). I could give you some examples of what might work but frankly this sounds like a form of self medication so please go off it. Then if known anti-depressents don't you could speak with your provider about alternative treatments but take things under their supervision.
LeftCoastChick & ILADVOCATE raise a really good point about so called 'natural medicines'. I'm sure you know already that a substantial number of regular medications are developed from natural sources (aspirin being a classic example), but are refined so only the active therapeutic agent is used. St. John's Wort / Hypericum is another good example - it works by pretty much the same mechanism as an SSRI (although the German medical fraternity think highly of it). The reality is that if a drug or a 'natural remedy' aids a condition, then their modes of action are probably similar (a ligand will bind to an appropriate receptor to produce the desired effect). The critical difference is that a prescription medication will have been tested for years before it hits the prescription pad; the 'natural remedies'? Well ...
I know this is an old post but I feel like I should contribute since I take both NO xplode, wellbutrin, and concerta...and major in both neuroscience and psychology.
Wellbutrin alone usually doesn't do much, reason being is because its more of a reuptake inhibiter than anything. It acts specifically on dopaminergic and norepinephrineic neurons, thus letting DA (dopamine) and NE (norepinephrine) do their jobs longer.
Tyrosine and it's catalyzing enzyme tyrosine hydroxylase are precursors to DA. NO xplode plays big on this...by putting DA precursors in the mix, it allows itself to cross the blood brain barrier (DA cannot cross it, it must enter the brain as the precursors and then be processed into DA), add this to the fact that the NO vasodilates your system (including the BBB) it's safe to say that it increases DA production on a quick and significant level. Add that in there with your reuptake inhibitor for DA and you have a pretty potent synergistic effect.
You're time of day for working out with NO xplode is highly problematic due to sleep regulation issues. Simply put; this **** wakes you up. I take it and work out at 5AM in the morning and don't tire till 7PM.
I let a friend try a scoop once at work, she was little stimmed out, and then she told me "it was the closest thing to legal cocaine."...apparently she had done cocaine before. This is a fairly accurate comparison for someone who knew nothing about neurotransmitters/science.
Point being, you're probably not at any fatal IMMEDIATE health risks. But long term use (and high magnitude of scoops) will wreck havoc on your body and psyche. I know because it's happened to me a few times. Too much of this stuff might cause substance induced psychosis.
Do as I say and not as I do. Get off of it and eat a banana before you go to work out.
I took NO xplode (high caffiene 300mg plus many other ingredients and aminoacids) for 5 years. I became addicted to caffiene to get a feel good high.I was a very outgoing happy guy my whole life. before i knew it after 4 years on No xplode my depression kicked in, i had to quit all caffiene and stimulants, by 2010 i had crashed HARD, suicidal. I believe it has damaged my brains serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine production. so i have starting taking 5htp, L-tyrosine. please comment wether this makes sense (high caffiene/ aminoacid intake for longterm can cause decreased production of dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine.) Thanks veryyy much. -Justin
As caffeine has a stimulant effect if a person discontinues taking large amounts of caffeine there will be withdrawal symptoms. To my knowledge they are not long term. However the stimulant effect can in some ways be a form of self medication. Even though caffeine has a mild effect it can temporarily worsen any form of psychiatric disability and certainly can cause or worsen mania (I know it did for me). Any treatment you are taking that is a natural remedy should be supervised by a doctor and as I do take some natural remedies which my psychiatrist approves (in addition to standard medications) some are familiar with their use. However as medications that are FDA approved are first researched for efficacy, side effects and overall safety and dosage guidelines often they are a better choice.. It would be worthwhile to discuss all this with a psychiatrist.
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