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Avatar universal

Sleep problem suggestions, please?

I saw that 'sleep problems' was an appropriate topic for this forum, so I'm hoping for the benefit of you good folks' expertise. It's odd, I don't want to wake up once asleep, but getting to sleep is extremely difficult. Here's what works ninety percent of the time: 1 lunesta or sonata (whichever is available to me at the time), 2 ounces of Nyquil, 2 over the counter sleep aids (50 mg of whatever puts the 'PM' in 'Tylenol PM') and one mg xanax. Ninety percent of the time that combo puts me out in an hour or so. Subtract the 1 mg of xanax, which I often don't include in order to avoid developing a tolerance, and the success rate drops to perhaps sixty or seventy percent, and it takes a couple of hours to work. What I'd like to know is if you folks have any suggestions regarding what I might ask the VA people to provide that might be powerful enough to knock me out for the night, yet not be as destructive of my liver as I've been led to believe the combinations I use now are.  Has anyone any suggestions, please? Thank you very much in advance for your time.
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Avatar universal
If only I knew then, what I know now. 15 years ago I had such trouble sleeping that I took the highest recommended dosage of Ambient or Lunesta just to get enough hours sleep to go to my 8 hours/day job. For years I have gone from doctor to doctor trying to find what was the cause of my not being able to stay asleep. What has helped me is changing my diet, and getting bioidentical hormone help. Both things are difficult and complicated to get into balance. I will elaborate on how to do that if anyone is interested. By now I have been educated to the fact that whatever was causing the problems in the first place is a secondary problem. The Ambient and Lunesta have caused me to have permanent brain damage in that I am fully awake every night during the night. I am now coping with 1 1/2 pills of Benadryl I take in the middle of the night, but this would not work if I had not gotten my diet and hormones into balance.
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432009 tn?1304749841
Here's a quick synopsis - I found it really interesting...hope you do, too.....

Swiss chemist Albert Hofmann, inventor of LSD, died yesterday at the age of 102, just 10 days after the 55th anniversary of his notorious bicycle trip while tripping on "acid". Hofmann, who suffered a heart attack at home in Basel, Switzerland, was the first person to synthesize lysergic acid diethylamide, better known as LSD, and the first human known to experience its mind-bending effects.

The drug was the 25th he created from the basic chemical ingredients of ergot, a fungus that forms on rye, in his search for treatments for circulation and respiratory problems. He reports in his 1979 autobiography LSD, My Problem Child, that he became restless and dizzy when he accidentally ingested the compound while making it—and "perceived an uninterrupted stream of fantastic pictures, extraordinary shapes with intense, kaleidoscopic play of colors" for about two hours.

The very next day (April 19, 1943), he swallowed 0.25 milligram of the acid to confirm that it had caused his odd symptoms. Overcome by dizziness and anxiety, he asked an assistant to bicycle him home; once there, he writes that he was overcome by feelings that he might die (prompting a later call to his physician), along with delusions that included perceiving a kindly neighbor transformed into a malevolent witch.

Sandoz Pharmaceuticals, his employer at the time, tried to promote LSD as a drug to treat psychiatric disorders such as schizophrenia under the trade name Delysid by sending samples to psychiatrists—and the compound was briefly used as the treatment du jour in conjunction with psychoanalysis.

But acid swiftly found its way into wider use among artists, writers (such as Brave New World's Aldous Huxley), actors (including established movie stars like Cary Grant), and rebellious teens in the 1950s and 1960s. In fact, it became so popular as a way to "tune in, turn on and drop out" that in 1966 New York State and California made it a crime to possess it; the U.S. government followed suit in 1970.

Hofmann also manufactured a wide range of medical drugs from ergot, including methergine (which is still used to halt bleeding after birth) and hydergine (which improves circulation). In the psychedelic realm, he was also the first to synthesize psilocybin, the active ingredient in so-called magic mushrooms (Psilocybe mexicana).
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I couldn't believe that this was going on in the 40's....amazing....sent the samples to psychiatrists.....things weren't all that different back then....probably they'll be writing about the SSRI's 40 years from now and talk about the millions of Americans who used them and how it impacted our society...
I was looking at the no. of prescriptions that are written for SSRI's - it's in the multi-millions/yearly......

Sad - huh?

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432009 tn?1304749841
Glad to know that my info. made an impression....I hate to beat a dead horse, but I want to spare you and your loved ones from any future problems with the drug.

I started weaning down on Ambien last nite - was planning to wait until I'm off Xanax completely, but I was compelled to give it a try. I took 3/4 of the 10 mg. and slept like a log. I was so tired this morning still....I had hoped I'd have more energy, but I know it'll take time. I'll stay on the 3/4 for about 4 - 5 more days, then go down to 1/2.

And, in spite of another headache again, I felt ok on the lowered xanax dose - now on day 17. I think I'll be read yto go in 3 days...wow - the end is near....I just want to be past the tough weaning trials...it's truly psychological torture...talk about head games.....

Hey - did you hear about the death today of the infamous LSD inventor? Man, 103 or was it 102 years? Guess when you have access to the pure stuff, it doesn't affect you as much (ha!).....I haven't read his full story yet - I think I'll go check it out now.

When I think of LSD, I think of Timothy Leary and Osley LSD  out of San Fran....I think he was a contributor, too...and ole Jimi Hendrix was a fan out it, too...
I just love Hendrix...still listen to his greatest hits in my car, cruising around...

Hope you catch up with your orders...
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Avatar universal
Thank you, I will pass that on to Sweetling too, to be sure she understands my concern.

Yah, it's rough as all get out sometimes not to be able to protect her. Sometimes I just have to "ride the wave" and not think too deeply about things, or I'm afraid of that nasty ol' depression setting in. All I can do is everything I can do for her. Today she's at work, and I'll have a dozen roses delivered with a note, "An Angel like you deserves for every day to be Valentines day". That should cheer her up. But I can't escape feeling that if only she were with me she wouldn't need cheering up. Sometimes it's very hard.

I'm not sure when I'll do the VA thing. Should be shortly, as they guy won't be there the first week in May. Geez, I guess that means if it's not today it'll be over a week. Darn it! I spent yesterday with Sweetling, we didn't even get out the sack until noon, and then we ran around looking for a thing she wants for her son's birthday. So I'm way behind in filling customer orders. May not be able to do it today. May have to wait until after 08MAY.

Thank you for keeping us from going through what you're going through.

-El Dave
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432009 tn?1304749841
I'm sorry about Sweetling...sad story when someone is married to a liar and thief...she is lucky to have you, as you are lucky to have her...

I know that Hildy would not want to set up a new, expanded household...
I have no answers, unfortunately...

I'm glad to hear that you can now be a "walk-in"...yay! Soon, you can say good-bye to the xanax for sleep.  Here's that info. I told you about...I know that you didn't ask for it, but I just sent it over to another forum member who is struggling through Ativan (lorazapam ) weanimg....the 2 benzo's are basically in the same class due to their half-lives. So...please take a sec. and read. I hope that it reinforces why I've been nagging you...
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"Individuals who take only one pill daily for sleep or anxiety are not exempt from withdrawal problems. In my private practice during the last few years I have worked with several people who were unable to stop taking a once-a-day standard dose of Xanax, Ativan, Klonopin, or other minor tranquilizers. In each case, the attempt to stop the medication led to a disturbing degree of anxiety or insomnia within twenty-four hours. The problem seemed to be caused by rebound anxiety or rebound insomnia (see ahead). In a personal communication in late December 1990, internist John Steinberg confirmed that patients taking one Xanax tablet each day for several weeks can become addicted. Steinberg is medical director of the Chemical Dependency Program at the Greater Baltimore Medical Center and president of the Maryland Society of Addiction Medicine. He points to research that Xanax and other short-acting benzodiazepines can cause a reactive hyperactivity of the receptors that they block. The hyperactive receptors then require one or more doses of Xanax each day or they produce anxiety and emotional discomfort. Steinberg calls the impact of Xanax "a fundamental change in the homeostasis of the brain." After the patient stops taking the Xanax, according to Steinberg, it takes the brain six to eighteen months to recover. Xanax patients should be warned, he says, that it can take a long time to get over painful withdrawal symptoms. Since doctors frequently don't realize this, they, too, are likely to be confused and to continue the drug in the hope of "treating" the patient's drug-induced anxiety and tension.

Many detoxification beds are occupied by patients addicted to minor tranquilizers and even more by those who are cross-addicted with alcohol and other drugs. Steinberg says that Xanax is "by far and away" the worst offender and that it definitely causes addiction without being mixed with other sedatives. Steinberg estimates that one in ten patients receiving Xanax will become addicted. * (Based on an estimated fifteen million people receiving Xanax each year in the United States, Steinberg concludes that 1.5 million Xanax addicts are produced each year. "
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I know that you're not taking it nightly, but I just wanted you to understand the nastiness that can result when you least expect it.

As for me, I'm on Day 16 - I think I'm beginning to settle at the new, lowered amount, and hopefully, can start a new period of weaning in a few more days....

When are you taking the VA walk?
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Avatar universal
His nurse called and said if I want to just call first any day to make sure he's in, they'll stick me in there as a walk-in. As a walk in, you usually get whatever you're asking for, unless the head plumber sees some reason why not (like if I had a history of drug abuse and was asking for an opiate).

All is fixed on server.. unfortunately, all is not fixed regarding my Sweetling. Her loving husband stole from her again and lied to her again. I feel so darned frustrated. I'm not allowed to care too much, Hildy wouldn't like that at all. But I do care. I'd like to go over there and get all her stuff and the kids and move them in over here.

Sometimes I wish I had no honor.

-E.D.
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432009 tn?1304749841
Sorry to hear about the "no show"....and you have to wait until May 27th?? I certainly hope that other Vets get faster appts. than this...geez....

Hopefully, you can get a rx for Ambien or one of the others...

But more importantly, I found an old post that I had written with some quotes from experts on Xanax....and one of the articles was specifically about dependence on xanax when taking it only 1/day. If you want to read it, let me know, and hopefully, I can find it. I was doing quite a bit of research on withdrawal phenonomenon when I was really struggling back in Feb./March.

Today was a touch better...it's day 15.  Let's see how it goes tomorrow before I can decide if I'm now stabilized at this new, lowered amount. And, thanks for asking...

Hope it's going better for you re: server problems...
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Avatar universal
The shrink bailed on me! Called in sick! I'm rescheduled for May 27th. Hildegard would have been proud of me, I left a message requesting that he write me a script for something sleepy tomorrow, and specified "like ambien". Just like a grownup with an actual, functioning brain would do! I'm so proud of me! We'll see what happens.. when no action is taken on my polite request I'll put the 'pick on it. I think she's been itching for a rematch with that nurse anyway.

Howzit going?
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Avatar universal
Perhaps tonight. I'll get Princess one of those boards too, and you can teach her. Hildegard and I will hang around on deck and watch all the children play. At some time or another, I'll say or do something inappropriate and Hildy will knock me off the boat, but I'll catch up with you guys next island.

I don't know, I guess I'm anti-drug in a sense. I have no problem with folks doing a drug for immediate and temporary relief from something or another (be it boredom, pain, or anything else), but permanantly (permanently? Oh, well) altering body chemistry.. that just doesn't sit well with me. Of course, I do realize that there are folks that need it, and my avoidance of it should not be construed as judgement.

I feel so sorry for you guys that have to pay for medical stuff. Before they made me go to the VA, I refused. When the copay for one lunesta prescription became the same thing as the total of the entire bill for my birth (including hospital, doctors, materials, the whole thing.. and I'm talking the entire bill, not the copay) I refused to have anything to do with it any longer. My attitude was "I'll see a doctor when I'm carried in to see one". When I was younger and filled with false pride and arrogance, I'd take nothing from the army or the society that had, in my opinion, emotionally raped a naive youngster (me) but now I'm older and wiser and poverty stricken and glad to get some payback for that year in 'Nam.. which I have to say they do seem willing to provide. Like with your not being nude in an El Dave dream production, call the papers..  a government agency I'm not complaining about.. who'da thunk it?!

Tallahassee is "Georgia with a Florida zip code". At the very top, pretty much in the middle. 250 miles to Savannah East, 250 miles to Mobile West. It's like an hour to the beach, even by motorcycle.. but we have dug up various ways to have fun around here anyway, and even some that are fit to discuss in mixed company. Honestly, you're welcome any time you'd like to explore this area, perhaps on a "pit stop" on your way to "real" Florida. Summer's the only time this area is continuously habitable, though, by other than arctic wildlife.. but that's the opinion of a fella who's happiest when it's ninety degrees farenheit and above.

Oh, jeez, I hope ambien wouldn't change my dreams. They're all I have, the majority of the time. Tomorrow and/or Tuesday morning I'll have the dreams come true for a few hours, but usually the memory of dreams is what gets me through the day. Have you ever tried lunesta? For a few months that actually worked for me, just 1 mg of lunesta and nothing else.

Oh, sheesh, I guess I'd best get to work. Big problems here, the FTP server is offline due to redirector problems beyond my control, and I'm making time-consuming alternates for distributing samples and freebies, all of which are important for advertising my wares. Y'all have a great day!

-El Dave
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432009 tn?1304749841
Loved your post - you definitely made me laugh....it's funny how people crop up in our dreams...unfortunately, I don't dream much on Ambien - it basically knocks me out until morning...sometimes I can dream lightly in the morning, but the dreams typically aren't glorious....One of the many reasons why I want to wean off the Ambien next....

All this weaning-----I'm just one big weaner, I guess...

Thanks for the offer - you live in Tallahassee?  I haven't visited that city in Fla - not sure what part it's in - would have to check the map...Florida was always one of my favorite places to visit...great beaches...loved Daytona in the 70's - was a sleepy town, kind of funky....we used to go down for Spring Break....fun and games....

I like the post from jurplesman - I have to check out some of the sites - nutritional psychology sounds pretty good to me....drugs aren't always the answer, but they do have their place, I feel. If I could have avoided them altogether, I never would have swallowed a single AD or anxiolytic agent or sleeping pill. But, that's water under the bridge...

I have to deal with what's on my plate right now....I have a new psychologist who rocks...I wish I could afford him - $100/session.....but I think he'll definitely help me during this transitional weaning process. If it were up to my psychiatrist, I'd probably be swallowing pills for the rest of my life, so I could keep writing those $100 checks for a 20-minute "drug management" session......

Sweet dreams...have fun sailing with Sweeting tonite....perhaps I'll be in it again, this time windsurfing by on my Mistral Super Light board...
-xan-


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Avatar universal
Just about every night. It's very pitiful, an old man dreaming of sailing his favorite sea with his Sweetling. But That's how I get by day to day, with dreams. I'm afraid that her husband and my wife would have some major objections to our vacationing together in real life. We have a difficult enough time spending a few hours together here and there. Well, Hildy kinda looks the other way, but I guess Baby Doll's husband has problems with pride. They haven't even slept in the same room for over a year, yet he still wants to play the posessiveness game.

So we write back and forth and plan our night. Isn't that beautiful? Isn't that sad?

Last night we did sail, but also spent a bit of time on St. Thomas and St. Croix. There was one interesting episode though, and I swear I'm not making this up.. you were in it! I guess we've been writing back and forth a lot. It was sort of odd, Sweetling and I were here in my workshop, doing what we usually do when no one is around. The shop has a door I built that kitty can climb but not get through, so instead of screening it has chickenwire. That's the door into the main house. Well, Sweetling and I are going at it like a couple of teenagers, and watching the monitors for 'approaching problems', when you appeared at the inner door! Of course, I've never seen you, but you know how funny dreams are. Someone was there, and I said to Sweetling, "It's my friend from the depression forum, xanweaner, that's been warning us away from those blue sleepies" And you said: "Dave, I see what you mean. She is indeed beautiful. If I were into girls I'd be on her like white on rice!" Isn't that strange? Do you think such a thing has any meaning that can be analyzed? I think perhaps it's that it bothers me that the picture I have up of her is so terrible. She hadn't had any sleep in days, and had done a lot of crying. That was taken when we first started seriously working on her problems, and I had just finished explaining to her that things were going to work out because we'd never stop trying until they did. I've no idea of how, but I did convince her that we would succeed, and that smile you see was hope, and the realization that someone truly loves her. But it's an awful picture. I went down to the hair stylist and set her up for a new perm and highlights and all that, and Sweetling will go sometime next week and have it done, and now she has a job and things are indeed looking better, and I'll take a picture that is halfway worthy of her. She doesn't really need all that 'perm' and 'manicure' and stuff, but it makes her feel good and radiate even more brightness than she usually does.

Thing about Sweetling is that her physical beauty is nothing compared to her kindness and spirit. And intelligent?!  The girl can put two and two together and make twenty two. I'm sorry for going on and on about her, I'm kinda missing her right this minute.

Sweetling and I also go into outer space a lot. Hildegard says that's my natural habitat anyway. By the way, on our boat Hildy is Captain and First Mate (though we don't, she retains the title). Sweetling is Second Mate, and I'm their Cabin Boy and Deck Swabber. And happy as a fellow can be.

Do you dream?

Well, remember if you're ever in this area, we have a couple of guest rooms and you can certainly avail yourself of one or both. We've had folks come from Europe and Japan, so California isn't that far!  I remember the Japanese fellow, Shigeru.. I took him to Panama City Beach, and the guy was beside himself.. he goes walking up to this beach bunny in a nothing thong bikini and just panned his video camera up and down her body. Her big bruiser of a husband or boyfriend looked like he was going to get restless about it, but then Shigeru looks all wide eyed at the guy and says, "In Japan girls not dressed like this!" and the guy was all right.  We also took him out in the woods and let him shoot our guns, something he'd never done before (of course, no living thing was murdered).  AND we Americanized him to the extent that by the time he left he was talking union. I don't know if you're familiar with Japanese ways, but that was a big step for the guy.

Well, I think I'll go read and then be with my Princess. She's hitting the sack at midnight tonight.. we plan these things. So sad that it will only be a dream, but sometimes our dream comes true. In our situation that's really all one can ask for.

I hope you sleep well tonight, ma'am. I apologize for rambling so. I guess I must be feeling kinda lonely back here. Kiddo's up front with her lover (the television set), so maybe I'll go bother her for a while. I've bored all you guys to tears, why should Hildy get off scott free?

-El Dave
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432009 tn?1304749841
I chose to take xanax a year ago when I came down with severe anxiety and depression. I've taken it twice in the past, so I find it incredibly effective...this is the first time that it's been so difficult to wean off of...not sure why....

My pdoc will usually give me just about anything that I ask for - and he knows that I'm incredibly fearful of developing addiction as I always want to get off of drugs after I'm feeling better...

I wish I had the money to travel to Florida - have a few friends living on the East coast,, and Ialso have some interesting memories of living down there...Lauderdale and a short time in Key West...what a trip that was!! Lost one of my best friends down in Key West to a guy who worked on the fishing boats....long story.....

Your sailing trip sounds amazing...I used to windsurf...
When are you two sailing off into the blue waters of the Caribbean??
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Avatar universal
Well, I'm only doing the sonata and the two OTC sleepies tonight, canceling the xanax and the nyquil. So I'm still awake. I just wrote Sweetling a note asking her to go sailing in the Caribbean with me, perhaps that's what we'll be doing. Tomorrow she'll be coming to see me, and Monday morning.. oh boy, no, that's oh girl, Monday morning there will be no clouds in my sky, heaven on earth time. I pass your information on to her, and she trusts me completely, and thanks to you I know what I needed to know to keep her safe. Thank you.

You're going to be completely free of that stuff soon now. It will only be a memory, and you'll continue to help other people get out of it or better yet, never get into it. It's very hard to go through, but you're wiser now and the people you'll be able to help because of the experience you're having right now will be much better off. So it's not for nothing, and it's not only for your own personal freedom that you do this, it'll end up doing a lot of good. I'm sure I'm not the first person you've made understand the danger.

Freedom. Such a beautiful word. A jail cell can be in the mind, in the form of a little pill. The spotlights are sweeping the yard, whistles are blowing, guards running around frantically, but all to no avail. You're escaping!

You gonna vacation in Florida this year?
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432009 tn?1304749841
The tingling in the hands - particularly the top of the hands - is part of the withdrawal symptoms...I know that it could be worse. If you saw some of the videos on utube under xanax withdrawal, you would cry.....I'm thankful that mine aren't severe and debilitating.

I hope you have a peaceful sleep tonite....my 10 mg. Ambien is waiting for me on my bedstand...but, soon, that's the next one to go.....
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Avatar universal
Don't you worry, I am taking your advice very seriously. I see the head plumber in a couple of weeks or something like that (Hildy and Dallas handle scheduling, I'm not bright enough to keep track of appointments) and by VA regulations He's the one who has to write a script for sleepy stuff. What I'll do is share it with my Sweetling. I love that girl, it burns in me like a hot fire, if I did anything to hurt her.. well, I just can't stand the thought of it. So please know that your tingling hands, typing on your keyboard, have saved someone else from going through what you're going through.

-El Dave
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432009 tn?1304749841
OK...we all have our reasons to whine....

I'm not feeling all the great today - it seems like the withdrawal just kicked up a notch - it can do that in the second week, I've found....you think that the nasty dosage reduction stuff is quieting, when all of a sudden - wham! Your hands are tingling (right now), you feel like you missed taking your last dose of xanax (and I didn't - I keep a log), and then you start feeling like ****...started a few hours ago.....sigh......
I just want this whole ordeal to be over.....

Please don't let sweeting take xanax more frequently - you really need to find something else for sleep, so you don't end up in my situation...

I'll keep nagging you until I get a post that reads, "i got an rx for Ambien (sonata, or Lunestra...or something else...).
This is  one very tricky little drug, and the longer that you're on it...the trickier it is to get off of.

Big sigh.........
xan
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Avatar universal
So what I'll do when I can find some time is set up a recording device for like between 2 and 4 a.m. and see what I can hear. Thanks!

Naw, I listen to merengue or house music at high volume, but all that shuts down three to five hours before beddy-bye time.

If the VA provides it it will be free. I'm one of those "no-copay" type vets. I saw the MD type doctor today who said that judging from the bloodwork and all that I'm healthy as a horse. However, she can't do sleepy stuff, By VA regs the head plumber has to do that. He's the guy that keeps prescribing me these things like paxil and remeron and all. We'll see what he says next time.

Sweetling is about as big on doctors for herself as I am (and she's a nurse!) but I think it's mainly a financial issue with her. She runs the kids to doctors all the time. I tell her I'll pay, but.. well, she's just too nice to me, I'll just leave it at that. I'll keep her on the .5 mg every other night, though, per your advice. If they give me anything for sleeping I'm sure I'll be able to engineer things so there's enough to share with her, and perhaps we can deal the xanax out altogether.

No speeding in Macon county. Got it. Same thing as Madison county here.

El Dave be unhappy. Kiddo is in "mean mode" and Sweetling was going to come over and do what she could (oh, that one can do a lot, Lordy, yes) but then Kiddo came home early, just as Princess was walking up the drive. I feel like a kid at Christmas who opened up an empty box.  Well, no, make that a box with one of those spring loaded punching things like in the cartoons.

Sometimes I wish I still drank. Sometimes it's so hard to live with one who always seems to be able to find fault... Hildy sees me and immediately starts griping. Sweetling sees me and immediately starts smiling. We have that in common, the grinning like fools at the sight of each other, but also her Mom treats her like Hildy treats me.

Tell ya what, everybody mail me a quarter and I'll quit whining.

-El Dave
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432009 tn?1304749841
Here's the medical definition for sleep apnea:

Apnea is defined as a cessation of oronasal airflow of at least 10 seconds in duration. When it occurs 30 or more times during a 7-hour period of nocturnal sleep, it is called obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) and requires immediate intervention to prevent it from becoming life-threatening.

Basically, Hildy would hear you snoring - that's how you have some clue as to if you're suffering from it. During sleep apnea, she would hear a pause in between the intake and outake of air.
This is considered one of many issues related to sleep disorders...

Doesn't your work involve listening to music loudly for hours? This can definitely mess with  the brain - overstimulates - and it's difficult to fall asleep right away....I know people in the recording industry, and after working for hours in the studio, it can take them quite awhile to unwind and quiet their brain so they can fall asleep.

Again, for your health, ED, you are best to skip your street connections and buy your sleep aids at a discount pharmacy, if you can. I believe that Ambien is generic now...and you can also get a AAA discount. Doesn't VA provide drugs at a discount?
If they don't, that's terrible...as they should...

Re: xanax - I wouldn't recommend taking it two days in a row, then skipping one day. The likelihood could exist that she could start to experience some of the rebound anxiety phenonomen that xanax is famous for.

If  sleep is the goal, I suggest ask a doc for a sleep aid. Xanax is for relief of anxiety, and isn't supposed to be used long-term. Of course, thousands/millions (don't know the hard data) of people use it for long periods of time. And, some of them end up here on the anxiety forum, posting for advice on how to get off or switch to something that's indicated for long-term use.

You don't want your sweeting to end up as xanweaner2, right??
Then again, when I'm xanfree...maybe I can surrender the name...

If you're on your way to Georgia, definitely don't speed in Macon County when you get there...
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Avatar universal
In haven't slept "normally" in many years. How would Hildy know if I had that sleep appnea thing? What's that? My need for sleep aids began about six years or so ago, and it was simply business building. I was working 16 hours a day then, and when it came time to hit the hay I couldn't, mind was just spinning with what I needed to do. At that time I actually went to doctors and got lunesta (I believe it was.. there may have been something pre-lunesta, don't remember). It did a great job, and I got a lot of work done. However, insurance copays were extremely high, and I found out I couple buy prescription drugs on the street for less than the insurance copay (really!) so gave up on the doctors. I've never been one to trust them much, unless they're female and pretty, in which case for some reason I always develop symptoms of testicular cancer which must be checked out asap. Anyway, lunesta started being less effective so I started adding things, until today I have the xanax/OTC/sonata or lunesta (whichever is available)/Nyquil combo.

Business has been ruined by plagiarists worldwide (my product is reproducable and eBay is a money hungry irresponsible self serving pack of thieves) plus I've some pain in all my joints, but the left arm gets so bad it keeps waking me up. My "cocktail" sort of knocks me out as opposed to being a sleep aid, so it helps with that too

Sure, I'm not stupid, I went to a doctor to find out what was causing these pains in all joints. I was told "put ice packs on it". At that point it became obvious what doctors are there for (other people.. perhaps people with money?) so I stopped wasting time on them.

Thing is, life really, truly sucks. Sweetling comes over, yes.. when she can slip by her husband. Then she has to slip on back to the house she lives in with him. Hildy's even nice to me sometimes, but has never been known for having a sweet disposition. Oh, I won't go on and on whining.. thing is, sleep is my real reason for living. I have a completely different world I live in when I'm asleep, and it's so superior to this waking world. There's no sign of greed or jealousy or posessiveness or hatred in it. I live when asleep in a world not defined by those things. Can you imagine that value of that?

I got the money for some people who have to have a car fixed or lose a job, I've got to go pick it up in Georgia so I have to ride on outa here.. I get to see the VA lady first, last time, as she's going into private practice.

Oh, my question about the xanax.. there is a level of use at which tolerance and subsequent addiction won't develop. For hydrocodone, for example, at 5 mg, for a ~100 lb 5'0" Angel with carpal tunnel it's safe every other day. I was wondering if you knew any similar data for xanax.. for instance, .5 mg every other night to help her sleep has not addicted her, and she was thinking of increasing it to two nights on, one off, and I'm not going to do that without some solid info received from experienced people. You'll soon be xanfree, and I don't want my Baby Doll to have to take your present moniker any time in the future.

I gotta run. Georgia's on my mind!

-El Dave
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432009 tn?1304749841
I'm not exactly sure what you're asking, but I know that lack of quality sleep can impact us very negatively. I have used sleep aids - Ambien - off and on for years - using every night for months...then weaning off...and able to sleep on my own...Then, anxiety depression comes back - and back using Ambien again.

I guess it all depends upon your individual needs and what you and your Dr. want to use to help with getting quality sleep.

For your needs - you just need to find something to take on its own - no more combinations with OTC stuff, if you find that you have to use something to get your sleep. You could also go to a sleep lab and get a work-up....there may be other medical reasons that are interfering with your quality of sleep.

For ex., - do you have sleep appnea? Or other issues? Hildy would probably know that, but it might uncover something that you weren't aware of.

Some VA's have a great sleep lab department - not sure if yours does. I used to sell in this field and called on quite a few VA's when I sold my sleep lab equipment.
Just a thought...

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Avatar universal
Then we agree to disagree for sure. It takes guts to go where people are trying to kill you, but when you do you've been brainwashed into thinking you're the biggest, baddest, meanest you know what in the valley. To me it takes a lot more guts to deal with people who have no face and people who are blind. If you can get a job trying to help some vets you can get a job trying to help some people recovering from plastic surgery to have nicer boobs or a bigger penis, yet you stuck with the vets. Sorry, but I have to pass the medals back to you.

I've never quite understood the concern folks have about insomnia returning when a sleeping agent is abandoned. Since you couldn't sleep before you began the agent, if you are able to sleep well for a couple of years, then abandon the agent and are unable to sleep, seems to me that what's happened is you've gained a couple of years of decent sleep. If the preceeding statement is idiotic, please remember that it's actually quite sophisticated for a moron.
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Avatar universal
No, Trazadone isn't addictive.  Although if you've been on it for years and try to get off of it, you will suffer from a little insomnia for a while.

Yes, I saw some really sad cases at the VA.  A couple people I saw at the VA were there because they tried to kill themselves.  One through himself in front of a train and had no face.  Another put a bullet to his head and it only made him blind.  One thing I learned from that is there is no guarantee if you are so depressed that you will die if you attempt suicide and, not only that, you may be in far worse shape than you ever imagined.  

And, I beg to differ, but I still thank you for service to your country. It takes a lot of guts to go where people are trying to kill you.  Takes no guts at all to get paid for a job to try and help some vets.
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Avatar universal
Just Hildy and Sweetling, now. I went through working girls by the four-pack before Sweetling picked me up, so I still have a load of them as friends. In fact, many of them have let me know that if my Sweetling ever goes away or her husband cleans up his act or anything, they'll be here for me even if I'm broke. Some girls engage in prostitution because it's a needed service and their chosen vocation.. others are desperate, usually because of a crack addiction. I always had a rule that if a girl had a rock cough or other indicators, she needn't bother coming to me, I wasn't going to finance her habit. You'd be surprised how many ladies appreciated that, and you also might be surprised how many truly respect my commitment to my wife. It's been my experience that although there are some prostitutes like on TV (hard hearted) the majority are good people and much more honest than people give them credit for. The crack ho's of course, can't be trusted not to steal, so though I let them in and feed them, let them take showers, wash their clothes, all that, I watch them like a hawk. Hildy says if any of them ever steal from her again they can't come here any longer (a girl once took a bottle of perfume). I just tell a girl up front I'll have to watch her and I tell her why, and every one of them says it's all right. It's very sad when you're so hooked through the gills you'd steal from a friend, but it's a reality, and they know I know it.

Anyway, in my experience, having numerous women doesn't beat depression. Nor cause it. It's like, my Sweetling was with me today, but now she's gone back to hubby and the kids, yet I'm not depressed. The secret is to stay in reality, keep the feet planted firmly on the ground, and not fantasize about things that can never be. See, in order to be with my girlfriend full time I'd have to walk out on my wife, a selfish act that would make me very different in the eyes of my girlfriend. She can also think things like 'if he'd walk out on Hildy what would keep him from walking out on me?'  The fact that she's beautiful beyond description? And what if she, too, had an illness that degraded her physical beauty? That's a 'what if' that's very real in my circles. Think of my wife.. she has the inner beauty that allows her to compensate for my weaknesses and love me regardless. You can't buy that, and you sure don't walk out on it.

Think if you'd been married like twenty years, then became ill, had a series of operations, lost your libido and had to take all sorts of drugs that caused serious weight gain. Think of having weighed like 100-110 pounds before, and of having been fantastic as a lover, way beyond what guys normally get. So good that "replacing" you in the sack took girls by the four-pack. Think of what it would feel like to then be walked out on for a younger, prettier girl. Even if I didn't love my wife (and I do, very much), I could never do something like that to anyone.

In my fondest dreams, we all live together and support each other. Yes, Sweetlings's husband too, because their kids need him. It's the factors operating in our world that make my fondest dream impossible that were the root of my depression, I think. Doesn't matter how many lady friends I have, those factors aren't going to change until mankind progresses a lot further from the pure animal stage (my apologies to animals).

Oh my, in the 70's and early 80's you must have seen some really bad cases. I remember being in not too great shape, hiding in closets and avoiding crowds and all. Heck, to this day my shop is built like a bunker, and my friend Jenny points at it and says "you don't have PTDS (or whatever it is) my hiney!" 2x4 barriers across the doors, video monitoring of the outside.. maybe she's right. But doesn't everyone have a rifle lashed under their workbench? But seriously, I remember some of the guys that came back, they were really, really basket cases. I may have my little eccentricities, but those guys had real problems. I'll bet you helped a lot of them, and so it's you who should be thanked for your service to the country, not me.

Trazadone has been mentioned before.. is it addictive?

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Avatar universal
Hi all,
What an interesting discussion.  Honestly, I only read about 1/4 of the discussion, but because I forget a lot, while you were discussing sleep aids I thought I might tell you about Trazadone.  Trazadone is an AD that no one uses as an AD (probably because it doesn't work).  Anyway, I've been on the darn drug for a 100 years.  I take it to go to sleep.  It works very well.  Unfortunately, now I cannot stay asleep, but it always knocks me out.  

Dave, sorry to hear about the lady who died and about your experiences with the VA and in NAM.  I do want to thank you for your service to your country.  I did work in VA hospitals for 9 years, and I, at least, always tried to help veterans and I'd like to think I did.  You would not believe though the staff to veteran ratio (and this was in the 70s and very early 80s). I know I worked my butt off and it dismayed me to know that veterans were still waiting.  

Now, Dave, do you have the wife, the girlfriend and the prostitute now?  How many women do you need to not be depressed?  I'll read the rest of everybody's comments later.  Do want you to know though Dave, you are too interesting to ever do yourself any harm.  The same goes to the rest of you friends.
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