When is it better to cry?

[Lizzytish1313]

The last time I reached out was disappointing, but I have another question. Perhaps somebody in the community will answer with a little more compassion than my last question generated. Okay, so when we're brokenhearted, does crying serve any therapeutic purpose? I'm wondering if I don't feel less depressed when I don't yield to tears. Then I wonder what happens if I stuff these feelings?

I work that gratitude list like you wouldn't believe. The gratitude list is what's kept me from absolute despair. That technique is simply about working a word or two like "gratitude," "peace," "love," even "beauty" and there are others, but "gratitude" is best... the technique works, these words are powerful (I call them "depression suppressants," lol) but I'm wondering about the need to cry. Does that dam of tears just behind my eyes have to break ... be given voice and space ... to go away? Or will it ever go away? I would really like it to go away.

[persephonedemeter]

I am very happy for you that the visit was "awesome." I hope you have good family pictures to hang on your wall. By the way, the ashram on the Mesa sounds lovely. I know the weather was good during the weekend, and those boulders are very tempting for climbing and scampering about.

I am adding my hope that one day, hopefully sooner than later, that your kids will lessen their hard feelings and at least, make an effort to reach out, even just to say hello. I am trying to mend bridges right now between family members who are not speaking to each other, and the reason is actually loaded with emotions and perceptions and not really not based on what actually happened years ago. It involves a lot of waiting it out and seeing what happens next. Right now, i managed to get them to say hello to each other over the phone, and that is it. It is slow going, and I am hoping it resolves before anyone dies or becomes incapacitated, but it's delicate work. I don't let it interfere with how I live my life, but when I have a quiet moment and it comes across my mind. I don't like to give up on people taking the high road. I am one of those people who think change can happen, long before it became a campaign slogan, but like you said, it doesn't usually happen overnight and usually takes years, and more times than not, an aha! moment or a common "enemy," crisis, or disaster. I am always hopeful for the aha! moment.

I am so glad you have bright spots and loving people in your life who support you. For me, that is what I really value in life. People like that can make a home that is a dank hut feel like a palace. I am glad to have met you, Lizzytish1313. There is a lot about you to admire and respectt just from what you said and revealed.  You gave me a lot of good things to think about myself and impacted me in ways that I really appreciated. I just wanted you to know that.

[Lizzytish1313]

Hi. I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate the support you've offered me and to tell you that we (granddaughter, step-mom, and I) had an awesome visit. My family situation is terrible, yes, but here is the bright spot: my granddaughter and her step-mom and I are good. Maybe my own kids have some more growing up to do, and I'm sorry for that, and it hurts like hell, but I'll go on. I treasure the few people who care about me, and hope those who would like to forget me now will find it in their hearts to forgive me some day. I'll leave them to it just as I have for years now. I can't change this, I can only work towards acceptance. Something has happened to create an unacceptable rift between my son and me; and, since all possible apologizing has already been done, I have to work towards acceptance. Thanks again, persephonedemeter.

[nursegirl6572]

Yes, OP stands for original poster, or original post.


Lizzy...I'm sorry you're hurting so much.  It's awful.  I know.  It sounds like you're dealing with not only a good deal of depression, but also a lot of family issues and a lot of past hurts that are hurting your heart.  I hope you enjoy your visit with your granddaughter.

As for the rest of it...I'm not going to continue to rehash this all over again, as it isn't doing ANY of us any good I don't think.  Everyone is entitled to their feelings and opinions.  Let us know how your visit went and how we can support or help you from here on out.  

[Lizzytish1313]

Yes. My granddaughter is wonderful. She and I share a special bond. I helped her to safety when my daughter, her mother, was too sick from methadone and Xanax use to care for her. It was a horribly traumatic time in our lives, but we brought my granddaughter out of harm's way. We're (I and some friends) are still trying to convince my daughter to push away from the life of an addict ... a life my granddaughter will NEVER be exposed to as long as I live. My daughter could have been with us tomorrow, and she could have hung out with her daughter, except she's handcuffed chemically and can't leave the clinic. Not even for one day. If she were in rehab we would, but we're not going to LA this trip, we're staying out in the desert ... we're going bouldering (I can only watch due to my knee issue) and hiking in the park. We'll go to the street fair, and I'll take her up to my ashram high up on the Copper Mountain Mesa.

All this when you have heard nothing of my daughter before and all about my son and his wife who were not part of the custody fight and know little about things other than what my daughter's told them ... i.e. junkie lies.

My family situation is nothing but depressing, but I have a great man (friend/lover) in my life, my granddaughter is safe, and I've got some degree of comfort in my senior community. I'm often lonely, and a friendly phone call from my son would rock my world despite all the water under the bridge. why don't adult children understand that they are so needed just for an occasional kind word and and a name to put down when you're asked to list next of kin. Imagine for one moment what it's like when the doctor asks for next of kin and you're me. I would give them my man's name, but he would not enjoy talking to my children at all. He knows both of them, he's been in my life off and on for 25 years. He knows them.

[Lizzytish1313]

Original poster.

[persephonedemeter]

I wrote my response to nursegirl before I saw your reply, which looks like you wrote when I was still typing away. I am glad I responded. Looks like we are like minded in how we read things.

I've been in your position. When it's family, it's definitely hard because they know you well enough to know how to push those sensitive buttons. I also know, I can push and have pushed those buttons on them too. It brings me to a new low, so I try not to go there. That usually means I don't respond, say please don't go there, sorry but I know this is going to hurt me in the end...so no, and then, when I am particularly vulnerable to emotionally manipulation, I just don't make myself accessible. I don't really put up with  emotional badgering any more. It's hard to do most of the time, but I know, in the end, it really doesn't help me or them.

I figured a woman who lives in Joshua Tree was in tuned with the feelings inside and around her. I have really strong, wonderful memories about your area and some individuals I had chance conversation, who I found extraodinarily  deep that caused me to pause at the beauty of what they have to say. The landscape also tends to do that to me.

You are in good company when it comes to expressing how you feel with tears. Heaven knows, we can get criticized for it. Just to let you know, the present Speaker of the House is known to be overcome with tears, and I personally don't see him flawed in that sense; afterall, it isn't a job that gets in every one's grasp. Personally, I feel I lived long enough to not care very much how someone criticizes me for feel. Just to let you know, it took me a while not to be sensitive about it. The bipolar disorder and especailly the depressive cycle really undid my emotional armor, especially because I was in situations like yours where it can get hammered down alot.

Also, when  I see people who mean a lot to me, I am swept away when I see them. I also meet people who get overwhelmed with emotions when they see me, especially when we are separated by distance and time. It's very wonderful to greet and be greeted that way by people and animals. Just thinkng about it makes me smile. Have a great time with your granddaughter. She's lucky she has a grandmother who sees her as the apple of her eye. There's a lot of love there in my view.

[persephonedemeter]

Well, I should  probably let it go, but I'll respond; then I will let it go.

When people go through rough times, they get "off track." It can bring  a lot of other stuff up. I read her other posts like you did, and I often do that. I don't know what your experience is, but When people make comments about someone on aside and refer to people as OP's or patients in front of them, it's not very kind. She said she is right there. If you read her other post, you would know that was an issue. You said you couldn't see it. So, I'm pointing it out to you, There is also tone of an answer, Lizzytish talked about about a dam of tears in back of her eyes, and that sounds like she is really hurting. The last thing I think she would need is straight up information. The first thing I do when I see someone hurting like that and who said she was disappointed in responses is sit down and ask what is making her feel like that instead of assuming things and be sensitive about it. There were some loaded responses from others. She isn't being defensive. Someone is, but it isn't Lizzytish. If anything, she needed acknowledgement first, and information last. I get what she said about the middle school playground. People who feel like they are being treated like they are not there or are at a low point when they feel like they are just ready to break into tears usually are asking for more than information.

She didn't need boundaries set. A lot of angry people posted here, and there is such a thing as people getting angry when they feel they are treated badly by others. If you or I can't tolerate it, then like you said, walk away. If she doesn't want to post here because she doesn't feel it is helping her much or she doesn't feel like it's a good fit; then, I would think it is just the same as going to a different doctor, company, or therapist who isn't a good fit.

I am just glad that Singingbeauty really sung out to her beautifully, and she heard every word Lizzytish said and responded. I really resonated with how she said things, and everyone, including yourself said nearly exactly the same thing. Not everyone is going to gel or respond the way you like or want them to respond, and from ourselves, we all respond off note from time to time and not be able to see how we say things. Answering on forums lacks a lot of the whole picture or get a perfect sense of who you are addressing or even sound like the way you want your own answers to sound. It's not always cut and dry. I often read answers that are loaded with other stuff going on, and the only difference between reading what is said and when I hear it in person from someone's mouth, I don't have the luxury or capability to say, "Come again? I'm picking up more here than a simple answer. What's going on when you said this? etc. etc." The 2 way street is stilted. I wouldn't even try to negotiate a tense stand off on a forum like this. It's too risky on so many levels.No one's that talented in human behavior or intelligence of any kind across the board. If there is someone like that on the forum, send that person to the the diplomatic hotspots in the world.

I really liked what Lizztish had to say and I admired her for standing up for herself, spoke her mind and say what bothers her. She also sounds like she is working, is workng, knows when something worksand questioning how things are going because she hasn't given up on herself, hopes, and wants things to be better. I am not going to shoot her down for that, because I do the same thing, because I want the situations in myself and my life better that I can see needs improvement. You do it too. When you stand up, not everyone is going to pony up to seeing it your way. From what I see, she's just pointing out and hoping something sinks in, and not expecting a whole lot of change.A lot of people don't bother to do that. So, just as you support Paxiled, I'm supporting Lizzytish, because I see what she is saying and I hear what she is saying and I got it. It's not a matter of being right or wrong in this situation. I think she is entitled to be in tune with how she feels, and I don't think she was "off course" in her own post. I also used to be so low and so agitated that things prickled me. I liked what a really great nurse said who was good at listening and said this to me when I was in great despair, couldn't see the end of my depression, and allowed her to see my vulnerability. She said, "Pain  is pain. No matter where it comes. Whether it is emotional or physical." She didn't say much more, but I could see in her face and in her eyes that she got me and connected with me. She just stayed with me until I had to shift gears and soldier on. At that time, it was enough for me, and I recall that moment every now and then, when I have to go through that kind of pain again, because it is just what I need to remember.

[Lizzytish1313]

What's an OP, nursegirl? I bet the P is "patient." Still trying to figure out the O. Let's see ... nope, I got nothin'.

[Lizzytish1313]

I didn't mean you, persephonedemeter, you don't seem inclined towards being teachy, preachy or judgy. Thanks for that.

[Lizzytish1313]

Thank you. I'm glad I came back to read your post.

I'm particularly vulnerable today since my granddaughter and her step mother are coming for a short visit beginning tomorrow. My granddaughter is nine, and she's absolutely adorable and the apple of my eye. They're flying in from back East. What's incredibly weird to me is that I am struggling to hold back tears even as this happy event unfolds. I'm a creature who responds to sadness with tears and to happiness with tears. People are cruel, so I cry; people are loving, so I cry. My whole story is just too long and horrible to recite here, but the sad result is, my own children have abused me (sorry, that's the fact, hard as it is to hear) my daughter through her junkie/addict behavior and my son through his unwillingness to forgive me my faults despite my abject apologies (And you need to know that I humbly apologized for my part in our problems DESPITE the physical and mental abuse and humiliation they caused me.) But my grandchild and her adopted parents are my #1 fans, and this is extremely happy stuff. I want to be able to enjoy this rather than be a weepy puddle while they're here. So ... please don't anybody say anything mean at least until Monday afternoon. K?

[nursegirl6572]

Great detailed answer about the crying issue.  

When I said lashing out, I was referring to the turn the thread took, I sincerely think that the OP is reading things into the posts that just aren't there (my opinion).  And the last comment about "mean girls in 6th grade" kind of to me is lashing out..

Everyone needs compassion, you're right, but when someone posts on a forum like this, usually they're also expecting some kind of informative answer.  That's how I took her question anyway.  And I don't see anything but caring, straight forward replies, and it saddens me that somehow it went off track where the OP feels as though we're somehow not being kind, or helpful.

I apologize, Lizzy if anything I said made you feel as though I wasn't being compassionate.  I couldn't care more about the people who reach out on this site (and these forums).  I've been posting here for years, and it's important to me.  The last thing I would want to do is to make someone feel worse.  My comments to you (and Paxiled) after you got upset I stand by.  I had nothing but positive intentions, to hopefully get you to change your mind about the site, and also to hopefully gain some insight about the fact that perhaps some of your defensiveness could be YOUR perception (we've all been there!  That's not meant as an insult!).....and also to give you the advice that there will always be some very helpful responses, and ones you don't find as useful...hence why I said take what you need and leave the rest.  That motto has helped me on these kinds of forums a LOT.

If you just want compassion and reassurance, we can do that..but I also feel that on both of your threads, it looks like you were asking for input as well, which is what we were all trying to give you.  Sometimes honest answers aren't always easy to digest, but we don't ever grow unless we're willing to try to keep an open mind and look at ourselves and our own issues and motivations.

Anyways, I truly DO hope you stick around, and give us a chance. It's hard to read tone online, and it's easy to read intentions into posts that aren't there.  We're here to help, and we would certainly never treat you meanly on purpose.  That's just not our style.  All of us who post here do so because we like helping people, and most importantly because we can relate.  We've all been in similar situations.

[persephonedemeter]

i meant you were having it rough, You asked for compassion, and that is what Singinbequty gave you. Feeling and relating  are totally different from thinking things through. Sometimes, we don't need thinking through. We just need feeling it through, which is equally important, and that is what is missing here.

[persephonedemeter]

Just to let you know, I see what you are talkng about. I also have bipolar disorder for many years like you, and I know I am not "mislabeled," or more precisely, since I don't enjoy being profiled or labeled, "misdiagnosed."

Getting back to your post, I don't mind it when people cry, including myself. I worry more when I don't shed a tear. I can feel it inside, but I just couldn't cry, and I felt awful inside. Some people thought I was cold or steely when family died, and in a way, I was, because I had to finish practical things, like burying them. Only 3 people knew me well enough to see on my face  and hear in voice that I was just holding it together. Afterwards, when things calmed down and there was just me and the hurt I was going through, it ripped right through me, and like you said, the dam caved. I wasn't looking or thinking about catharsis or getting in touch with my feelings. I just rolled with it and just felt what I was feeling, and a lot of it was raw emotional pain. I can't even describe what that was like. I've gone through a lot and helped a lot of people going through terrible, devastating things, but like I said before, when it's personal, it's a whole different understanding. Thinking about it now, I believe crying when I needed to cry, going through all those hard emotions, was the best thing I did for myself. I think when I allowed myself to just go through it without overthinking, without analyzing, and just knowing that in all of history and now, if people hurt like me and got through it, I could. I also came to the point when it has to do with grief, loss, getting hurt, feeling vulnerable and sensitive, I just don't analyze it or question it. I just am aware of it and I see where it takes me.

I've talk to therapists and even spoke to my doctors about it. They don't know the answers as much as anyone does. They don't make a fuss when I start to cry. They are prepared for crying since every single therapy and psychiatric office and room always has a tissue box handy. Crying is not pathological to me. I know people including myself who went through severe depression and couldn't shed a tear because we were so dead inside. I did know a woman, a fellow psych ward patient, who cried all the time, and I mean, every second of her waking hour, but she got better after her 3rd day in the hospital. I don't really know her issues, but she obviously looked lke she was in tremendous pain. I am just glad her pain eased up so soon after she got there.

How long it takes is how long it will take to get over something or someone. It has a lot to do with how deeply it matters, in what I see and what others have gone through. Just know, there isn't really a deadline. I think what matters is that time doesn't stand still for you and keeps you from growing inside yourself. It sounds like the power words helped you. I hold on to words too. My favorite one that kept me going was "believe." My pain eased up, and I could live with the loss. I don't know if it made me stronger or able to understand things better. I feel I understand myself and others better, but I don't have cognitive words for it.

There are some things that we understand that have no words for it, only a deeper level of feeling. I think that is where compassion come in. I know it made me kinder to myself and others, and I think that is a benefit for me, and I like it. I practice cognitive behavioral techniques and meditation and I know I am really good at it because it is easy for me to do after  I also had a really good teacher who adapted it to me. It did change the way my brain functions, just as meditation did, as well as other things like some foods I eat and exercise. Everyone involved in my care: myself, doctors, therapists, etc. all practice for the whole, integral person, and are totally on board in that. We look at everything, including environment, culture, and interpersonal relationships, including communication. All open to suggestions and always try to collaborate. There is no ego involved.

That's what I have so far. I love Joshua Tree. One of my favorite places on earth:) I also cry when I get involved with a movie, see something really heartwarming, and I totally lose it on certain Superbowl commercials. I think I'm pretty real, and I like people showing how they feel if they can't actually say anything. It's also hard to warm  up to someone when they don't show much emotion and keep you guessing or supposing.

I don't see in your last post  that you are lashing out. I think you were saying exactly how you felt, and, for heavens sakes, you have a mood disorder like the others here, and it sounds like you are having it. I think there needs to be some sensitivity here.

[nursegirl6572]

I commented to another poster, after you declared that you were leaving the site (which I'm happy to see you didn't).  

THEN, I addressed you directly.

We're not the bad guys here.  Not sure why you're lashing out, we've only tried to help you.  Hope you find the answers you're looking for.

[Lizzytish1313]

I'm right here. I'm the person posting. You're responding ABOUT me, discussing me between the two of you in the third person. I'm back on the playground dealing with the mean girls in 6th grade..

[nursegirl6572]

I was thinking the same thing.  I'm not sure where the anger is coming from, I too only see helpful and caring replies?  Even when I looked on her other thread, I don't see anything to the extent that she is seeing it.  Sure, we don't always LIKE what others have to say, but that's the beauty of a site/forum like this.  You always get unbiased, honest answers.  The saying I like the best is take what you want and leave the rest.

OP, I hope you reconsider your stance.  I think you're feeling defensive and are reading things into posts that simply aren't there.  This site is full of wonderfully smart and supportive people.

Any which way...I wish you ther very best.

[Paxiled]

Oh, I forgot, I also wanted to say I forgot to say why I felt it was important to point out that CBT is cognitive behavioral therapy and not brain therapy.  I failed miserably at it, and most people find it hard to do, but it's not the brain we're trying to change directly because nobody knows how to do that -- nobody knows why these conditions exist -- but the negative behavior is what the therapy aims at under the belief that if you change the thinking and negative behavior repeatedly the brain will alter itself.  The behavior part is important.

[Paxiled]

I just want to say, I've looked at these posts and they all seem very kind and supportive.  I don't know why the person posting felt these were irritating responses, everyone seems to want to help the poster move on and understand.  Seeing antagonism where there isn't any is a sign of depression -- some like to label this a form of bipolar, but I think that label is way overused.  It's just easy to be overwhelmed by life not going that well and see negative intent where there isn't any.  It's much better to get views that are contrary to how we normally think since, well, we wouldn't be on here if we were happy with how things were going.  I hope the poster hangs in there with some place where people try to help and not just comfort even if it's not here.  Peace to all.

[medstudentte]

Crying is a form of stress relief that your body needs. Stress has many unfavorable effects on our health. So a good cry releases chemicals and toxins that build up from stress. It helps the body heal. Holding back tears  only creating a tension inside your body, so cry away. BUT if you are uncontrollably crying for "no" known reason I would ask my doctor. It could be an emotional hidden reason or a physical (imbalance) that you need help with. :) Think of crying like your body's way of bring a rainbow to your heat!

[Lizzytish1313]

Thank you. Thank you for being kind. I don't know why anyone would use (abuse) these forums to unleash their negativity, or their need to feel better than ... or more well-informed than ..., on another. So perverse is the need to dispense cruel wisdom on people who are hurting. So inappropriate is this forum for self-aggrandizement. So thank you for not being one of those, but I've only posted a few times here, and I've gotten more than one irritating response, so I think I'll leave you all to it. Thanks again singinbeauty, you are a shining jewel in the midst of a steaming pile. I won't be back.

[Paxiled]

Crying does release negative feelings and increase positive ones, but only temporarily, but that's better than nothing.  But it doesn't change anything, unfortunately.  Crying when bad things happen is cathartic; crying constantly because of depression is a different thing.  And CBT, just to be accurate, is cognitive behavioral therapy, not cognitive brain therapy.

[Lizzytish1313]

Thanks for the comment.

[Lizzytish1313]

Thanks for the kind input. Sometimes it feels like if I let the tears begin, I won't be able to stop them.